Deseret News | Reader comments: Texas ranch probe grows

Reader comments
Texas ranch probe grows

Thomas Bigham | 2:05 a.m. April 6, 2008

Hey, I'm all for protecting children. It my line of work I see some very bad situations and someone has to come to the aid of kids in certain circumstances.
But, this story has a couple of things that don't sit well with me.
A)It seems the authorities in TX entered this FLDS temple very quickly. What kind of precedent does that set for mainstream Mormonism?
B)Pics of Baptist church buses, hauling these kids to safety. That's a little too much religion mixed with the law. I'd like to know the whole story.

just thinking | 6:17 a.m. April 6, 2008

"Their singing songs, so happy and sweet and precious, it breaks the heart." these are abused children. or is it like all the other raids on fundamentalist, children who are loved by their parents. I am not a fundamentalist, but I know many and have been in their homes. I remember one on a dairy, 18 children and 3 wives. All the children were well mannered, they were dressed in simple clothes, and all the boys had a farmers sunburn. (Face tanned top of head not from protection of a hat). the children were shy, (they were not used to a visit from someone outside) but well mannered. In our zeal to wipe out the evils of child abuse, let us look to ourselves, and see how our own children are being abused by drugs, sex and a wicked culture. Fundamentalist children are not suffering this. Remember what happened on June 27, 1844. The cry was we have got to kill the traitor. While he and his people were inocent of the charges against them.

Overreaction | 6:52 a.m. April 6, 2008

If you look in the Dictionary under the definition, overreaction, you will find this incident as well as WACO. I don't see where it says in the Constitution that government has the right to detain entire populations for a single allegation. This takes the word guilty by association to a new extreme.

I don't like child marriages as much as anyone else. If they feel that a law was broken and a child was endangered find that child and arrest that man. Do not detain an entire city of children. King Herod anyone?

I also find it sickening that the majority of people are applauding this action. These people have rights, the same rights you have. I seem to remember a time in American history where another certain sect of faith was also persecuted, murdered and run out of town because of the bigoted reactions of their neighbors and eventually their government.

"Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it."

Comments continue below

Raven | 8:14 a.m. April 6, 2008

This group needs to stop marrying off underage girls. Then, the authorities would leave them alone.

Anonymous | 8:59 a.m. April 6, 2008

Seeing all those FLDS children hauled off in "First Baptist Church" buses and then confined at the local Baptist Church reminds me of what the Baptists used to do to Native Americans. It seems America is still willing to use "child protection" and compulsory education to destroy families and take children for assimilation in majority culture.

By the way, did you notice how law enforcement was willing to force its way into the FLDS temple? That is something our soldier will not do to mosques in Iraq unless enemy fire is coming from such sacred sites. Nice to know that peaceful American citizens are given fewer rights than foreign Muslim terrorists.

russ | 9:19 a.m. April 6, 2008

I agree with the question about using the First Baptist buses. What is the story on that. As a Christian taxpayer, I have to ask: does Texas not have enough buses to take 200 people anywhere?

Lame excuse, whatever it is. Lame.

Abuse of State Power | 9:22 a.m. April 6, 2008

Why did the state of Texas remove 137 children and storm the FLDS temple when the warrant with which it entered FLDS property was for one man, one 16 year-old girl, and one 8-month old baby?

I disagree with FLDS teachings - but to quote famous anti-Nazi Pastor Martin Niemoller:

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didnï¿½t speak up because I wasnï¿½t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didnï¿½t speak up because I wasnï¿½t a trade unionist; And then they came for the Jews, And I didnï¿½t speak up because I wasnï¿½t a Jew; And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

The State of Texas has abused its powers.

Colleen | 9:27 a.m. April 6, 2008

Why take ALL those kids if they were ONLY looking for a16 year old???

Kevin In Texas | 9:39 a.m. April 6, 2008

This case seems heavyhanded to me. One girl's call about abuse spurs this massive knee jerk reaction.

Anonymous | 10:14 a.m. April 6, 2008

I cannot say if the 18 children brought up by 3 wives are having a worse or better life, certainly they may have a whiolesome and innocent upbringing. This changes if and when one of the girls turns 13 and Daddy tells her she has to go sleep and live with Great-Uncle Joe. This is just pedophilia. And, if 5000 people protect Great-Uncle Joe and hide the girl, the law has to go in there and track them down, and rescue the rest of the kids to save them from Great-Uncles Jack and John. I am shocked by the support for this fundamentalist cult - I thought the LDS church repudiated this sort of behavior!

jms | 10:24 a.m. April 6, 2008

What comes around, goes around.

I hate the idea of illegal and immoral child molestation and forced marriages. I'm not a Mormon, nor am I a polygamist.

However, I believe strongly that CPS and family courts must be held to the same standard as criminal courts: a person (and entire community)must be presumed innocent until proven guilty! If we as a nation allow this outrage to stand, how will you be able to defend *your* group from having their children removed by the state because one person in the neighborhood *alleges* abuse?

Maybe there are some sicko molesters in the group. Ok, then remove their kids. But you can't go on a witchhunt, removing *everyone's* kids, just because one or two or even most of the others have had sex with minors. Be careful what precedents you condone, because they could be used on you next!

Grow a brain | 10:31 a.m. April 6, 2008

Polygamy is a CRIME. Marrying a child is a CRIME and indicates someone may not be of sound mind. Many men join this ridiculous cult just so they can marry a child or have multiple wives tending to their needs, and NOT because they have a testimony of this nonsense. Remember, one can cultivate a testimony of anything; radical suicide bombers have a very strong testimony, I am certain. That doesn't make their actions less criminal. Polygamists are criminals and we need to eradicate this evil from the planet. Time to grow a brain and enter the 21st century. I hope law enforcement comes down with full weight and force nationwide on these radical criminals.

L. G. KIRKPATRICK | 11:09 a.m. April 6, 2008

I was especially dismayed by the comment, "They [the children who were singing songs] seem to be doing well, considering the circumstances." We could say the same for Abraham Lincoln the morning after the play at Ford's Theater. Apparently Honest Abe wasn't complaining enough! And, whose definition of "seem" are we using?

Carol | 11:11 a.m. April 6, 2008

It's true they were only authorized to look for one girl. But if they found signs of abuse among other children it would be wrong in the extreme to ignore that, simply because those children weren't named in the warrant.

As a former peds RN I know that it can be a fine line between protecting children and overprotecting them. The ultimate question is what harm is the child apt to suffer if you mistakenly leave them in the home? Sometimes children get mistakenly placed in care, and that hurts the children and their families. But if a child is mistakenly returned to the parents it can ruin the child's life.

liberal larry | 11:27 a.m. April 6, 2008

I think that the Texas authorities are looking at the Polygamist compound's marriage practices as a form of institutionalized pedophilia. The rest of the country doesn't have the soft spot in their hearts for polygamists that we have here in Utah. They find them much more threatening.

Fredd | 11:28 a.m. April 6, 2008

The baptist Church busses were used (as were school busses) because they were available. Much like ward houses and stake houses are used as Amber Alert command posts in Utah. What's the problem? If the FLDS don't like Texas they can move out. The Baptist settled texas, it was a desert before they moved there. The bapist built a community with good values and now the FLDS want to change it.

Help them... | 12:09 p.m. April 6, 2008

I just hope something can be done for these abused women, girls and children. This a America! We do not believe in SLAVERY!

K.T. | 12:41 p.m. April 6, 2008

An oportunity to teach (Anonymous 10:14 above)and inform?

FLDS broke away from the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) "Mormons", oh, about a hundred years ago.

Only in Utah | 1:13 p.m. April 6, 2008

First of all who's temple is that? Warren Jeffs? then what religion when the prophet said he wasn't a prophet right on tv. Next uphold the law of the land since it has been banned since 1890 but given sanctuary over this way. No I don't feel sorry for a religion that is closer to a Jim Jones thing. And it was a 16 year old girl who broke the Kingston mockery. But here in Utah where we have a hard enough time with MLK, San Luis Valley...as long as they are lily white..well they must be right! Thanks Texas for stopping the Madness and the lord did bring this evil to light! At least the catholics and the Baptist stand for the law and what is right not no double standards on this!

The Texan | 1:55 p.m. April 6, 2008

I can't believe what some of you are making up.

Get a map, this place is isolated.

The DPS responded to a report, it's their job, I would be more concerned if they backed off.

The Baptist busses were available so they used them. Trust me this is Protestant country. The nearest city busses are a long ways away. Deal with it.

This is not Waco. This is not Jim Jones, the Kingstons are not here that I know of, what in heavens name does lily white have to do with anything?

Stop making things up. These people openly flaunt the laws. There is a consequence to that. The DPS should have come in long time ago. This has gone on for too long. The only overreaction is a bunch of you making things up. Let the DPS do their job. They're good people down here.

Anonymous | 2:21 p.m. April 6, 2008

Thanks to the Texans and Baptists, they have come to the rescue of these poor woman and children. It is better than what Utah has ever done for them. I am happy that there are true Americans out there who care about this kind of abuse. Utah ignores these abuses. God will be the judge of all negligence on your part. Slavery is no longer allowed in the United States of America.

maza | 3:19 p.m. April 6, 2008

what has utah got to do with it these people are not mormons they are a break off cult whoo are as far away from Latter- day saint teachings as ever

DUH! | 3:41 p.m. April 6, 2008

Wherever there is abuse in church or not. It is everyones responsibility to take action against it. It absolutely has nothing to do with any religion anyone belong to. This is pure ignorants to think any differently. These are abused woman and children from a cult, who need the help of our country.

russ | 3:57 p.m. April 6, 2008

To Fredd and others: using the First Baptist Church buses was wrong. I am not a Mormon. But neither am I a Baptist. If the authorities are going to raid a place, then plan ahead will yah! Bring in the buses from where ever, and raid the place. The photos of one faith being arrested/held/maintained and riding in the buses of another faith, is flat out wrong. Use taypayer money and get the buses. Think ahead. If this happened to Catholics, would they be outraged by the buses? If this happened to Mormons, would they be outraged by the buses? Well.. the shoe fits!!

Lack of planning, thinking, etc. Yes, I lived in Texas for years and I fully understand that parts of Texas are overwhelmingly Baptist (as well as some are Catholic, etc.). That is not the point. You do not haul people off in buses marked, "First Baptist Church."

Major league screw up. What's next? Housing them in a Bhuddist temple because it had extra food?

Horse pucky. Wrong to use the Baptist buses. Period.

PS - the case and the amber alert hdquarters is not in the same league. Please.

Diana | 3:22 p.m. April 7, 2008

If they need homes for any of these children, my daughter, and grandson (age 7) live with me and we would love to take care of any of the children. My grandson always wishes that he had someone to play with. Please consider us as we are a christian family who loves children. We are not mormans, so I don't know if that matters.

I think that people who have negative comments don't know what they are talking about. My sister and I went through abuse when we were little and no one knows what it is like unless they have experienced it. I feel for those children. We do live in Tennessee, and would drive down there if we are considered.

Vi | 9:46 p.m. April 16, 2008

The entity known as Child Protective Services has entirely too much power! Who can measure the depth of the trauma those children have had since the raid? If they really wanted to "help", they'd stop ripping children away from their families.

Lisa K | 11:08 p.m. April 23, 2008

Polygamy was declared a human-rights atrocity by the UN. These are people who oppress others in the name of their religion. These children are forced into marriage at an age that is inappropriate. The mothers are allowing this to happen, they don't know any better I suppose.

I live next to Utah, home of the Mormons (they "used" to be Polygamists). The Constitution does not exist in this state. They profile if you are out of state or of a minority. I've have witnessed this first-hand. This practice makes the progression of the human race come to a halt.

These children should not be taken away from their families. However, if they are raised by people who do not consider the Constitution, the Constitution should not consider these families.

Hopefully, this oppression will stop. Get these kids out of this vicious and backwards cycle in which they live.

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