Reader comments
Tad Walch: Infighting by county GOP likely not over
18 comments | Read story
Mike Ridgway | 3:12 a.m. April 5, 2008
Representative Wimmer may be a great representative. But he's not very good
at getting his story straight with the other ethically challenged players in
this debacle. I called him last week and he insisted that Stan Lockhart was not
aware that there was going to be a mailer "Paid for by the Utah Republican
Party" in support of the "Fabulous Five." But in an article by
the Deseret Morning News on the matter, Mr. Lockhart admits that he was aware
and did nothing to stop paid staffer, Ivan Dubois, the mastermind or the fall
guy, depending on whom you believe, from improperly advantaging one set of
incumbent Republican candidates over their challengers. These kinds of
inequities completely undermine the principle of free and fair elections in
Utah's Republican Party conventions which fundamentally deprives citizens
of the right to be represented in government by office holders of the
people's choosing.
With Curt Bramble in a contested race for his Senate seat, Susan Bramble should have nothing to do with decisions over who receives valuable campaign resources and who is denied valuable campaign resources. In other words, she should resign as Party Secretary. We could manage without Marian Monnahan as well.
With Curt Bramble in a contested race for his Senate seat, Susan Bramble should have nothing to do with decisions over who receives valuable campaign resources and who is denied valuable campaign resources. In other words, she should resign as Party Secretary. We could manage without Marian Monnahan as well.
Dave | 8:01 a.m. April 5, 2008
OK, Josh. Let's see:
Jessica's Law - Would have passed any legislature anywhere. No elected official in his right mind is ever going to vote against increased penalties on molesters.
Increased penalties for child killers, drivebys, child kidnapping, sex offenses - see above. The only way these wouldn't have passed is if they were sponsored by a democrat, since the Repubs won't vote for nearly anything that didn't come from them.
Sorry, but Wimmer sounds pretty average to me. Any legislator, certainly at least any Republican one in Utah, could have done what you've cited here.
Jessica's Law - Would have passed any legislature anywhere. No elected official in his right mind is ever going to vote against increased penalties on molesters.
Increased penalties for child killers, drivebys, child kidnapping, sex offenses - see above. The only way these wouldn't have passed is if they were sponsored by a democrat, since the Repubs won't vote for nearly anything that didn't come from them.
Sorry, but Wimmer sounds pretty average to me. Any legislator, certainly at least any Republican one in Utah, could have done what you've cited here.
Comments continue below
PrisonIndustrialComplex | 8:45 a.m. April 5, 2008
Police officer Wimmer's of increased penalties for crimes that are already
felonies will simply create the need to build more prisons.
Prison growth is the most dangerous form of government growth. One in 100 Americans are now in prison, a higher rate than any country in the world.
The folks in the criminal justice system and build and staff the prisons are the ones both pushing and profiting from this dynamic.
Wake up and smell the tyranny. Land of the free? Perhaps Utah should change its slogan to "Life Incarcerated."
Prison growth is the most dangerous form of government growth. One in 100 Americans are now in prison, a higher rate than any country in the world.
The folks in the criminal justice system and build and staff the prisons are the ones both pushing and profiting from this dynamic.
Wake up and smell the tyranny. Land of the free? Perhaps Utah should change its slogan to "Life Incarcerated."
Loren | 9:20 a.m. April 5, 2008
"...but Monnahan finally decided that to be completely fair, the lists
would be distributed to everyone."
Quite an admission.
Quite an admission.
yorktown | 9:26 a.m. April 5, 2008
Marian Monnahan should not lose any sleep over doing the right thing. This is
the kind of transparency we've been looking for.
The way they change rules every year, neglect to publish them, keep delegate lists confidential, charge money for precinct lists, refuse to reveal convention attendance, and in every other way imaginable try to control the outcome of elections to their advantage has to stop--this year.
There are enough people who are not going to play by their rules anymore that the GOP leadership is going to lose a lot of sleep if they're not willing to adapt to the new and honest way of doing things. No more conflicts of interest. No more bribes or gifts for the legislature or party leadership.
Way to go Deseret News! Keep on bringing the hidden things of darkness to light.
The way they change rules every year, neglect to publish them, keep delegate lists confidential, charge money for precinct lists, refuse to reveal convention attendance, and in every other way imaginable try to control the outcome of elections to their advantage has to stop--this year.
There are enough people who are not going to play by their rules anymore that the GOP leadership is going to lose a lot of sleep if they're not willing to adapt to the new and honest way of doing things. No more conflicts of interest. No more bribes or gifts for the legislature or party leadership.
Way to go Deseret News! Keep on bringing the hidden things of darkness to light.
Stacey | 10:09 a.m. April 5, 2008
I was a Salt Lake County delegate from 2006 to 2008 and I had no problem with
being contacted by the people who wanted my votes, in fact I was pleased that
one of them even took time out of her busy schedule to stop by my home and talk
to me about her campaign. So the "promise" by Monnahann not to
distribute email lists only damages lesser-known candidates, because the ones
who did not contact me only had access to my vote if I still had an open mind
the day of convention.
Apparently those lists are only kept private from lesser-knowns. But party insiders, and incumbent elected officials hoard the information like greedy children. (Add to this the tried-and-true Republican tactic of lying to police to get challengers put in jail to "teach a lesson" to any who dare give establishment bosses and their connected politicians a run for the money and you have anything but an "American" system of government.)
I agree. Resignations are in order.
Stacey
Salt Lake City, UT
Apparently those lists are only kept private from lesser-knowns. But party insiders, and incumbent elected officials hoard the information like greedy children. (Add to this the tried-and-true Republican tactic of lying to police to get challengers put in jail to "teach a lesson" to any who dare give establishment bosses and their connected politicians a run for the money and you have anything but an "American" system of government.)
I agree. Resignations are in order.
Stacey
Salt Lake City, UT
Cristy | 10:54 a.m. April 5, 2008
This is so great! Fairness in politics is the only way to ensure that WE THE
PEOPLE have a fighting chance of not going the way of the Roman Empire.
As for the reason given for not distributing the lists...
If they don't want email from candidates then they shouldn't run for delegate. Communication to assess the best candidate is essential and if you can't handle the communication whether by email, phone, or in person maybe you could best serve in another capacity and leave the delegate position for someone who is willing to seek out the best candidate.
Way to go to all those who recognized this usurpation of power and fought against it.
As for the reason given for not distributing the lists...
If they don't want email from candidates then they shouldn't run for delegate. Communication to assess the best candidate is essential and if you can't handle the communication whether by email, phone, or in person maybe you could best serve in another capacity and leave the delegate position for someone who is willing to seek out the best candidate.
Way to go to all those who recognized this usurpation of power and fought against it.
Drew Chamberlain | 11:45 a.m. April 5, 2008
It is sad but true that human nature is such that we cheat when given that
opportunity. I see this allot in my Republican party. I believe we can do
better. I believe that if one leader is caught they should go. There are many
willing to serve, most are honest. We should ALL be involved in preserving the
integrity of the Republican party. As the party goes, so goes the State. I am
interested in meeting with and helping any one that wants a better Republican
party, please contact me at 282-4877.
josh | 11:52 a.m. April 5, 2008
Dave That's funny, your ignorant to history. Jessicas law FAILED three
years in a row until Wimmer was elected if it was so easy why wasn't it
done before?..wake up!
Oh and "prison" where do we in the land of the free have the right to rape children??
Oh and "prison" where do we in the land of the free have the right to rape children??
Alona | 12:32 p.m. April 5, 2008
These are troubling times when there is so much corruption that needs to be
illuminated. I thought it was just here in Salt Lake County! I thank all those
who stand up for Integrity and doing the right thing. I am a County Delegate
and understand that part of that priviledge is communicating with those running
for office. I can't imagine a delegate who expects means of communication
to be withheld. We should all be extra aware of promises we make before we make
them. Thanks Drew and Mike Ridgway and others who keep trying to bring
Integrity back to where it needs to be. Great personal sacrifices take place
all the time, even if not all of us are aware of those sacrifices.
PrisonIndustrialComplex | 3:21 p.m. April 5, 2008
Josh, child rape was already a felony before Jessica's Law. Why don't
you show some integrity and make your point instead of mischaracterizing the
statements of others?
Ronald H Levine | 4:50 p.m. April 5, 2008
Election fraud by controlling access to lists is not new, but it needs to be
solved and not just when in the spotlight of controversy just to just be
replaced by the next trickery, but all the time. Solve this by being aware to
participate in electing and being represented by your precinct elected delegates
who will, in the spirit of being ever vigilant, vote out corruption by electing
with those with a history of pointing out principles of fairness. This sort of
favoritism to selectively give candidates lists of delegates has persisted
through a decade of my political activism. In my Salt Lake County Republican
Party, they elected Senate District Chairmen to vote along with the Chairman as
essentially appointed rubber stamp votes like automatic delegates. Though they
won elections, essentially they were appointed as they were the ones who
received a list of newly elected central committee members to be able to
campaign while their opponents were denied a list and the ability to campaign.
Everyone else got the list minutes after the election was over. Other times
there are delays or having a flawed list, etc.
Ryan | 8:58 p.m. April 6, 2008
It's interesting to me that Ms. Monnahan is upset that she promised the
delegates that the email lists wouldn't be given out. I didn't get
any such promise in my caucus meeting from her or from our precinct chair. I
believe delegates expect to get contacted by candidates, and if they don't
want to be contacted then why run for delegate.
Citizen | 7:28 a.m. April 7, 2008
Mr. Lockhart claims that the flyer was mistakenly sent late - after the others
had filed - that the flyer was supposed to have been sent earlier. But, notice
that the flyer is not just a flyer - it is an advertisement for a fund raising
dinner to be held April 17. So, was the dinner also accidentally scheduled late
too? I don't think so. I think the timing was very deliberate - timed to
ignore party rules and give the advantage to the incumbents.
Delegate E-Mails | 10:11 a.m. April 7, 2008
The party changed the rules this election cycle on the distribution of delegate
e-mails after it was discovered that some people were actually selling the
e-mail lists for profit. This was a state-wide change -- it did not just affect
Utah County.
As for the whinning challengers, guess what? You can actually pick up a telephone and call your delegates. While you are speaking to them, you can also ask them for their e-mail address. In most house races, a candidate could call all of the delegates in less than one day. In the senate races, a candidate would only need two or three days. I think we need less complainers, and more campaigners who are willing to roll up their sleeves and get to work. No one gets elected by sending out the most e-mails.
As for the whinning challengers, guess what? You can actually pick up a telephone and call your delegates. While you are speaking to them, you can also ask them for their e-mail address. In most house races, a candidate could call all of the delegates in less than one day. In the senate races, a candidate would only need two or three days. I think we need less complainers, and more campaigners who are willing to roll up their sleeves and get to work. No one gets elected by sending out the most e-mails.
Kip Meacham | 11:54 a.m. April 7, 2008
Help me understand something here, 'Delegate E-Mails'...
As I understand it, the Party did not "change the rules." They reversed a decision. There were no prior rules in place about e-mail address disclosure. What the Party did do was comply with the State Bylaws Party Officer Neutrality Clause (7.2).
Do you define expecting people to operate by the rules as whining? Asking for a level playing field a totally reasonable expectation for all candidates.
I'm also quite sure the candidates are smart enough to know that phone contact is available. That said, the phone is only one of several means all candidates have at their disposal to promote themselves to the delegates. The point is that all candidates deserve the same access options.
Some candidates may be sufficiently well-funded to mail hard copy brochures, position papers, etc. to the delegates. Other candidates without the same financial resources may not, hence the need for e-mail address disclosure.
Candidates may well expect to spend thousands of dollars to "Snail mail" every piece of information from their campaigns to every delegate. E-mail democratizes the information distribution channel and keeps the field open for all candidates regardless of economic status.
As I understand it, the Party did not "change the rules." They reversed a decision. There were no prior rules in place about e-mail address disclosure. What the Party did do was comply with the State Bylaws Party Officer Neutrality Clause (7.2).
Do you define expecting people to operate by the rules as whining? Asking for a level playing field a totally reasonable expectation for all candidates.
I'm also quite sure the candidates are smart enough to know that phone contact is available. That said, the phone is only one of several means all candidates have at their disposal to promote themselves to the delegates. The point is that all candidates deserve the same access options.
Some candidates may be sufficiently well-funded to mail hard copy brochures, position papers, etc. to the delegates. Other candidates without the same financial resources may not, hence the need for e-mail address disclosure.
Candidates may well expect to spend thousands of dollars to "Snail mail" every piece of information from their campaigns to every delegate. E-mail democratizes the information distribution channel and keeps the field open for all candidates regardless of economic status.
Amused bystander | 3:38 p.m. April 7, 2008
Bramble's going to win this going away anyway so I don't see why
he's even resorting to this type of tactic. Maybe it's just compulsive
behavior.
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
- Quaid, wife no show in court 5:38 p.m.
- Suspect sought to hide blackmail 5:37 p.m.
- DC votes to legalize gay marriage 5:36 p.m.
- Ex-school nurse faces more charges 5:35 p.m.
- Provo's First Night celebration 5:33 p.m.
- Holiday spices are good for you 5:15 p.m.
- Lynch plays Sue Sylvester with gusto 5:12 p.m.
- Book to keep family recipies 5:12 p.m.
- What's cooking 5:12 p.m.
- Holiday treats offer less bad stuff 5:12 p.m.
- Cougar seniors see a new Bronco
- Cougs brace for coaching changes
- Cougars O-line a strength
- Fun games to enliven holiday parties
- Bleak holiday for Powell's boys
- Powell skips police interview
- Jazz stunned by Timberwolves
- Sources: Josh Powell hires attorney
- Man lives in Moab cave
- Top 20 boys basketball
- LDS to emphasize helping needy
128 - Unga might enter NFL draft107
- BYU to wear royal blue uniforms104
- Jazz stunned by Timberwolves104
- TV mom gives birth to 19th child102
- Sources: Josh Powell hires attorney100
- Disappearance called 'suspicious'99
- Stay the course with our president92
- Choir, guests unwrap musical magic86
- Barkley says Boozer is big problem81
These days, more than half of adults actually want gift cards, those...
David Rankin, one of Utah's youngest and ablest astrophotographers has...
First of all, to "20/20," how can you read newspapers and not understand...
Latest comments
sorry but the miners defense is overated not that good! davis had them beat...
The FLDS will talk about how this was a time of 'persecution' for practicing...
Lets face it, animals and humans are all out of control.
Dogs are animals. Growing up we had horses, cows, chickens, cats, dogs, and...
So you asked WHO IS THE IDIOT DRIVER? So let me get this straight....you...
Rarely, do we ever see our best state basketball players make huge...
The 4 year old has been interviewed. Police have only stated that he was not...
Old enough to be his grand-daughter. Sick-o
they're in the Provo area and is a private LDS school
Why would anyone want a coach from BYU? They have yet to prove anything yet!...
Advertisements
Where do you get off calling my Representative "average?" Rep. Carl Wimmer is possibly the greatest newcomer in the history of this state. Look at his the bills he has ran and passed in only his first term: Jessica's Law (which increased penalties for child molesters), Wimmer made child killers eligible for the death penalty, he removed the statute of limitations on all 1st degree felony sex offenses, increased penalties for gang drive-by shootings, increased penalties for child kidnapping. In addition he refused to vote for any kind of tax increases and voted for tax cuts. He opposed the growth and excessive intrusion of government as well. Average? HARDLY!
Josh,
Herriman