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Pignanelli & Webb: Education — is it partisan or personal?

Once again Webb shows that he and the republicans are out of touch with reality. I'm a republican and I am saying that.

Here is one example:

"They want to extend the school year so teachers can be paid more like other professionals."

I asked around at my local schools and a vast majority of teachers said, "if the legislature tries to get me to do this year round, I'll be done teaching." They said that they couldn't do it year round. They need at least a month or two where they aren't worrying about the students. They can't just go home and turn off worrying about what Joe is eating for dinner, is his dad going to come home tonight, is his family going to have food, is that really depression or just a bad day, is Maria's family going to get deported, why wasn't Fred in class today, oh yeah I have to teach tomorrow and grade 180 papers and it is already 6:00 p.m.

You get the idea. The majority said they'd take average pay for an average class size.

Talk to the teachers and listen.

The first thing we can do is call for accountability across the board: students and teachers alike. As an educator who has been in the trenches for 23 years the biggest problem facing education today is student accountability. Absenteeism rates are off the charts. A lack of responsibility on the part of students to complete in-class assignments, read books, and even consider homework knowing that parents will "excuse" away their student's behavior has eroded away the authority of teachers to expect their students to earn their passing grades. The other area that must be improved is teacher accountability. Most of my colleagues do teach and teach their subject material well. However, when we show up for work in t-shirts and jeans how can we ever expect to be treated like professionals? When we don't hold true to our grading standards because of overbearing parents and an administration that "fears" the voices of a vocal minority how will we be seen as "keepers of the flame"? Education is still the best source of hope for all of our young people but unless students and teachers alike make profound changes, the problems will remain the same.

"But that will require massive tax increases."

Bull! What it will require is people voting out of office those legislators who, rather than doing what the people consistently say they want to do with tax surpluses, end up cutting taxes instead.

Lavar certainly has a bug up his bottom about this. First he says it will take more money but then he goes on some tirade about how more money won't matter. Which is it Lavar? Then he throws in a nice ad hominem at the end attacking his buddy Frank for being a lobbyist. Uh, Lavar, did you forget something? Your bio says you are a lobbyist as well . . . but I guess IOKIYAR. Right?

You can have accountability for teachers and administrators until the cows come home, and it will not change a thing. They have an effect, but it is only a small part of a multi variable equation.

What every student figures out by the 3rd grade in our system is that they will not be held accountable for anything. Whether they study or not, be disruptive or obedient, do stunning work or crap, - their day will not be all that much different from their neighbor. They will all continue to advance together.

Still, our states and Fed will continue to attack this problem at the teacher and school level, while leaving the child out of the equation.

Good luck with that.

Education has not just continued the same-old, same-old for what raises have been given. Legislators, board members, and administrators have dumped more and more on the system and teachers, more than the increased funding by far.

We actually DON'T need to raise taxes to get more money in education. We could increase funding if we just quit CUTTING taxes!

Webb is so wrongheaded it would be funny if it weren't so sad. His beloved Repub legislature has kept teaching at slave wages for so long nobody with any brains wants to teach. The "salaries" attract only mediocre teachers and now he's wringing his hands that school performance is mediocre? I left teaching 20 years ago when it became obvious that our Reaganite legislature was entrenched and intended to keep us "in our place" forever.

I find it funny that Frank can't even mention that the president he is praising and touting as doing what was necessary is former President Bill Clinton. Jeez if that is your champion for the cause for higher taxes and supposed accountability then I guess you got half of it right. Yeah higher taxes will be a certainty yet the accountability, because of the inherent safe guarding by the teachers unions, will never happen without serious REFORM across the board and that will hurt the Democrats because the education union is what drives their party. BILL CLINTON! I can't believe Frank even wrote that.

Education is a personal responsibility, parents, teachers, schools, and universities can only provide support for individual needs. Perhaps, the real problem is the "free public schools" coupled with compulsory attendance.

In my view "free public schools" take away an incentive for individual accountability. Besides, "free" things are never appreciated as much as earned things. If instead of free parents had to pay say $500 per term and schools could hold back kids who were not progressing I think we would see many changes for the better by the parents, teachers, and students.

Instead of compulsory attendance beginning at age 6 do away with the compulsory part of it and make kids and parents earn their way into school. Kids should be required to be able to read simple words and phrases and do math at basic levels before entering school. I know from experience with my own kids they are not all ready at age 6 and may not be ready for school until 11 or 12, but that is OK. When they are ready to learn just try and stop them.

It's time for real change, more money is not the answer.

It's interesting that Frank brings up Bill Clinton's efforts to reform education in Arkansas. During those years, the biggest impediment to implementing meaningful reforms was the teachers unions. In fact, Hillary fought the union head on. But when it came time to run for US Senator (which we all know was her first step towards an eventual presidential run), Hillary announced her candidacy in front of the New York teachers union headquarters.

All of the sudden, the teachers union was her best friend. Why is that? Because over the years, the teachers union has become one of the most powerful forces in the Democrat party. So although Frank would like to imagine that education politics are magically non-partisan, you'll have to search high and low to find a prominent Democrat who dares to support reforms opposed by the teachers union, like merit pay (that's where you pay your best teachers more...shocker!!), differential pay (that's where you pay teachers in high demand subject more...even more outrageous!!), open enrollment where parents actually choose their kid's public schools instead of bureaucrats or zip codes, and increased local control so that principals, teachers, and parents have control of their own school's budget.

To Mr H, Digum and Dave Hansen: Each of you, in your own way, have called for greater accountability on the part of both students and teachers and I commend you for this. To Dave Hansen, how does one determine who the best teachers are in a particular school? By test scores? If that is the case then I am going to do my very best as an educator to identify early on those students coming into my school who score well on tests and "recruit" them into my classes so that I can look good and earn more pay. Differential pay? So a math teacher or chemistry teacher should earn more pay over that of a teacher of the arts, literature or history? Did you know that more and more of our students are preferring the arts, literature and history over that of math and science? How many of our legislators locally and nationally have degrees in math and science, as opposed to fine arts degrees? Maybe we should make a stipulation that only those who have degrees in math and science can run for elective office? Just a thought.

To Webb's point on choice and charters: While charters feel good, by most measures the average charter school is at or below its public school counterparts. It's a useful part of our education system, and has highlighted a few policies that could be streamlined, but it is not the panacea many conservative Republican's claim.

Smaller class sizes entails two costs--teachers and buildings. Year-round school where everyone gets 3 months off (i.e. not just spreading out a nine month program over 12 months) would address the building cost but we'd still need money to pay existing teachers more or to pay more teachers. There is no way to get smaller class sizes without paying more.

Name one unionized industry that is doing well.
Unions enshrine mediocracy. Teacher's unions are the most significant impediment to quality eduction. I am all for paying teachers well, but I must have accountability. The lack of competition guarantees lack of innovation. The experience of my 5 children shows most teachers are very good, with a few duds. Most are on the ball, concerned, prepared, and patient. The fact that Utah spends less than any other state with our test scores is proof that more money will not fix the system, and is something to be proud of. Why would good teachers fear vouchers? The competition vouchers would have introduced would have elevated good teachers. The teachers union has eliminated the best thing that could happen to good teachers - reward for quality!