Reader comments
52 girls removed from FLDS compound in Texas
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Brent Brown | 8:20 a.m. April 4, 2008
I'm curious as to why the newspaper owned by the LDS Church insists on
using the FLDS moniker for this organization. The fundamental LDS Church is The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which fact has been oft repeated by
LDS Church leaders.
Og | 8:14 a.m. April 4, 2008
Taking away other people's children is the tried and true technique
majorities to suppress the cultural and religious beliefs of minorities.
Fabricating a concern about child welfare is a tried and true excuse for the
police to force themselves onto private property.
One wonders when our society will ever progress to the point where people can mind their own business and let other people live as they wish. Polygamy does not always automatically equate to forced marriages or child abuse.
If those people moved to Texas looking for tolerance and the right to be left alone, they sure picked the wrong place!
One wonders when our society will ever progress to the point where people can mind their own business and let other people live as they wish. Polygamy does not always automatically equate to forced marriages or child abuse.
If those people moved to Texas looking for tolerance and the right to be left alone, they sure picked the wrong place!
Comments continue below
Bill | 8:43 a.m. April 4, 2008
Is this typical due process in the united states these days? I guess the raid
is part of the investigation. Hopefully we don't get video of law
enforcement officer shooting indescribably at buildings like we did waco. With
of coarse no shots being fired back.
John | 8:44 a.m. April 4, 2008
AMused, you would say when CPS takes a child out of a house where they have been
molested and abused or in this case married to someone they don't want to
be married to, it would have been better for that child to remain in the house?
I'm sure there are other circumstances and stories, but I would dare say
CPS does a lot of good.
Money | 8:51 a.m. April 4, 2008
You forgot money. CPS also receives more money when they remove a child from a
family than when they keep the family together. Hardly an incentive to do the
right thing, I would think.
Ed | 8:52 a.m. April 4, 2008
And all this began over a hundred years ago. When it became more important for
Utah to become a State rather than the faithful following their religion, they
gave up polygamy. The FLDS didn't. Remember the LDS part of their name
says it all. We criticize them for sticking to the fundamentals and in the same
breath we criticize our government for not sticking to the Constitution. Who
was right... man or God?
Raven | 8:59 a.m. April 4, 2008
to Brent Brown: I strongly suspect the reason the paper is using FLDS is because
that's the name of the Church they are speaking of! I'm guessing
it's incorporated and is probably registered somewhere. The last I checked
no one organization had a legal strangle hold on any of the words involved.
Well.... | 9:04 a.m. April 4, 2008
it is tough and sensitive subject, but what can you do if there is actual proof
that children are being abused? State Government has to get involve if children
are being subjected to abuse. They can't be bystanders. They system may
not be perfect but I would rather it than to have no order at all...
Kenneth in Texas | 9:01 a.m. April 4, 2008
re. Brent Brown
I think your information is almost 120 years outdated. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints ended the practice of polygamy in 1890. The Fundamentalist LDS Church, based in Colorado City and Hildale are not affiliated in any way. That religious sect chose to call themselves the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints; that was not a decision of Deseret Morning News.
I think your information is almost 120 years outdated. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints ended the practice of polygamy in 1890. The Fundamentalist LDS Church, based in Colorado City and Hildale are not affiliated in any way. That religious sect chose to call themselves the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints; that was not a decision of Deseret Morning News.
Re: Brent Brown... | 9:03 a.m. April 4, 2008
just to clarify what you were saying. You are saying the FLDS is not the LDS
Church as often repeated by the Leaders.... Thanks!!
me | 9:15 a.m. April 4, 2008
You want to bash CPS, but the SECOND that a child is abused to the point of
death, WHO'S the first one blamed for not doing something? CPS!
You can't have it both ways, people.
You can't have it both ways, people.
Cynthia | 9:10 a.m. April 4, 2008
This wacko cult is NOT associated with, nor is it a 'branch' or
'off-shoot' or in any other way tied in with the true LDS Church. They
may call themselves 'Fundamentalist' LDS, but they are not even
similar. The LDS church abandoned the belief in and practice of polygamy over
100 years ago and living in secret, secure compounds goes entirely against the
premise of the Church in every way.
To Amused | 9:11 a.m. April 4, 2008
Your sarcasm is pathetic. I have worked with CPS. You don't have a clue.
The situations I have seen beggar discription. They have a huge caseload and
take flak from people like you. You lie. What is sad is most of the things they
are allowed to do is after the fact because of people like you. You are the
problem.
To Brent Brown, we know which side you're on. That's your opinion and your opinion only. The truth resides elsewhere.
Yes, I live in Texas and the authorities were told to go in here years ago. This is probably too late. This sect has a problem and it has to do with underage children. Both male and female. The females are underage and pressed into arranged marriages. The surplus males are driven off because they would be competition for the alpha males.
Some people are forever clueless. Try reading the news reports.
Go DPS of Texas. What took you so long?
To Brent Brown, we know which side you're on. That's your opinion and your opinion only. The truth resides elsewhere.
Yes, I live in Texas and the authorities were told to go in here years ago. This is probably too late. This sect has a problem and it has to do with underage children. Both male and female. The females are underage and pressed into arranged marriages. The surplus males are driven off because they would be competition for the alpha males.
Some people are forever clueless. Try reading the news reports.
Go DPS of Texas. What took you so long?
mollyfurie | 9:18 a.m. April 4, 2008
If indeed a firl called in a complaint, law enforcement was duty bound to
investigate it - unless of course you think women and girls are so unimportant
in the scheme of things that the insular privacy of the group is more important
that their safety or freedom.
re: Money | 9:19 a.m. April 4, 2008
Do you have a clue about anything? "money"?
those who work for CPS DON'T GET THAT MONEY, it goes to the kids, STRICTLY THE KIDS. CPS workers work for pittance, they work for NO RAISES, they work because they value children's lives when their parents are too high, stoned, or stupid to take care of them appropriately. CPS workers do not get "commission" for removing children from ausive homes. And by the way---it's A JUDGE THAT REMOVES THEM, NOT THE CPS workers!
No CPS worker can just go into a home, school, etc and snatch up a child without a written warrant from a judge. A JUDGE has to order that they remove the child.
(Try researching and understanding the situation before you tout lies.)
those who work for CPS DON'T GET THAT MONEY, it goes to the kids, STRICTLY THE KIDS. CPS workers work for pittance, they work for NO RAISES, they work because they value children's lives when their parents are too high, stoned, or stupid to take care of them appropriately. CPS workers do not get "commission" for removing children from ausive homes. And by the way---it's A JUDGE THAT REMOVES THEM, NOT THE CPS workers!
No CPS worker can just go into a home, school, etc and snatch up a child without a written warrant from a judge. A JUDGE has to order that they remove the child.
(Try researching and understanding the situation before you tout lies.)
Don | 9:13 a.m. April 4, 2008
I am suprised that the "Empire" did not send in
"Imperial Stoorm Troopers", like Ms. Goose Step,
Janet Reno did at Waco. By the way, she said she
was burning, I mean, concerned about the welfare
of the children also. Sounds like the "Empire"
is doing a trial run. Get ready for a "HOT" time
in the "Compound" soon. Must distract the peasents
from the mess, our vaunted leaders have wrought.
"Imperial Stoorm Troopers", like Ms. Goose Step,
Janet Reno did at Waco. By the way, she said she
was burning, I mean, concerned about the welfare
of the children also. Sounds like the "Empire"
is doing a trial run. Get ready for a "HOT" time
in the "Compound" soon. Must distract the peasents
from the mess, our vaunted leaders have wrought.
annonymous | 9:26 a.m. April 4, 2008
As a child who was removed from an abusive home by CPS I will say that they do
an AMAZING job! For those of you have never been in a situation like this my
advise to you is to shut up! Abuse be it physical or sexual is not something to
take lightly and I dare each of you to do the job that CPS does half as well as
they do!
Jake Smith | 9:33 a.m. April 4, 2008
As long as people dabble with Polygamy there will always be conflicts. It's
a man made practice and will always promote evil doings. I believe there is
abuse in FLDS and LDS. You guys need to deal with the real world and quit
abusing woman.
Support | 9:40 a.m. April 4, 2008
I support CPS, if children are abused someone needs to step in, in fact, I will
go one step further, if a family member or neighbor, or someone you know is
breaking the law, it is your civic duty to report it to law enforcement. If
everyone "ratted" out the criminals, I think we would see a dramatic
drop in crime overall. Especially drug abuse and gang violence. People can live
in peace in this country but for some darn reason people choose to look the
other way when someone they know is committing a crime. So to you Amused and Og
stop breaking the law by making child abuse my problem and
I�ll stop calling CPS.
Um... Okay | 9:39 a.m. April 4, 2008
Not to Bright Brent Brown......
Maybe, you should like, take a History Classs, or something of value so you don't spout off retarded statements.
By the Way. Lets arrest all polygamists and put their children in foster care and childrens homes.
Polygamy is Against the Law.
End of story.
Maybe, you should like, take a History Classs, or something of value so you don't spout off retarded statements.
By the Way. Lets arrest all polygamists and put their children in foster care and childrens homes.
Polygamy is Against the Law.
End of story.
Darren | 9:46 a.m. April 4, 2008
I'm no supporter of polygamy and I think the FLDS people are nuts. However,
I do believe there is intolerance here in Utah and elsewhere for
"weird" religions.
This was proven at Waco.
Don't we believe that others should be allowed to practice their religion--though strange as it may seem (and our Mormon religion seems pretty strange to most people)? Didn't we for years claim we should be allowed to practice plural marriage as part of our religion?
I feel compassion for these people.
And isn't "compassion" the new buzzword de jour?
The concern about the children is the same excuse they used at Waco. If they're so concerned, then why are they showing up with armoured vehicles (just like Waco)? By the way, our government killed the children in Waco. Remember?
Like I said, I'm no supporter. But, I still believe in that pesky Article of Faith.
This was proven at Waco.
Don't we believe that others should be allowed to practice their religion--though strange as it may seem (and our Mormon religion seems pretty strange to most people)? Didn't we for years claim we should be allowed to practice plural marriage as part of our religion?
I feel compassion for these people.
And isn't "compassion" the new buzzword de jour?
The concern about the children is the same excuse they used at Waco. If they're so concerned, then why are they showing up with armoured vehicles (just like Waco)? By the way, our government killed the children in Waco. Remember?
Like I said, I'm no supporter. But, I still believe in that pesky Article of Faith.
snickerdoodle | 9:48 a.m. April 4, 2008
finally
Waco | 9:50 a.m. April 4, 2008
Pay attention all you conspiracy buffs. Shots were coming from the building at
Waco. They had an armory. The people at Waco did something very DUMB and paid
for it with their lives.
CPS? | 9:47 a.m. April 4, 2008
Who cares about the CPS? These polygamists are BREAKING THE LAW. Not to
mention marrying kids when they are not even old enough to drive. GET A CLUE
and it's very evident that the people who posted to this article are either
polygamist or mormon haters.
To Don | 9:55 a.m. April 4, 2008
How old are you? You display an amazing lack of knowledge about anything. Get
out of the comic book mentality.
I was at Waco, trust me gunfire was coming from the compound, lots of gunfire.
The Texan.
I was at Waco, trust me gunfire was coming from the compound, lots of gunfire.
The Texan.
It's open season on FLDS | 9:56 a.m. April 4, 2008
This would not be a very good time to be FLDS if you want to live in peace.
They are being harrassed becuase of their religion and watched everywhere they
go and whenever there is an accusation the government cracks down in a big show
of force.
The police say, "The FLDS people on the ranch are cooperating"..."Our staff does not feel threatened at this time"... Yet they go in with an armored personel carriers and block off all entrances and exits to the compound with armed personel. Sounds like they were looking for trouble, if not trying to cause it.
Since when does this happen in the USA and nobody cares? The answer... Today, but only when the FLDS are involved.
The police say, "The FLDS people on the ranch are cooperating"..."Our staff does not feel threatened at this time"... Yet they go in with an armored personel carriers and block off all entrances and exits to the compound with armed personel. Sounds like they were looking for trouble, if not trying to cause it.
Since when does this happen in the USA and nobody cares? The answer... Today, but only when the FLDS are involved.
just do your best | 9:57 a.m. April 4, 2008
I worked closely with CPS for several years. I believe that, as in any
organization, there are flaws in the system, but I also believe that the
majority of CPS workers are really trying to help. And there was a great deal
of effort put in to keeping families together -- almost to the point where it
was ridiculous. None of us are perfect, our organizations are not perfect. We
all just have to do the best we can.
This is funny | 9:58 a.m. April 4, 2008
When a schism takes place within a set religion, the "fundamentalist"
are those who stay close to the unaltered belief. Those who alter the belief for
any reason are called "moderates". For a Morman moderate to call them
a cult is no different than looking in the mirror to see another cult member.
One happens to be a fundamentalist and the other is a moderate. How can child
abuse be any different for a fundamentalist family compared to a moderate
family?
a cop | 10:14 a.m. April 4, 2008
I am actually surprised that CPS in Texas is conducting investigations before
removing any children. I am a law enforcement officer in CA, and I can tell you
from experience that the CPS workers at least in my community, remove children
first and investigate later. I can�t tell you how many
times I have had to go with them to break up fights because they are taking a
child out of a home based on nothing more than a flimsy accusation. Where I
live, CPS and the courts operate on the belief that it is better to remove a
child immediately, than risk any responsibility if something were to happen to
the child after a complaint is made. There is no love lost here between the
police department and CPS. Most of the workers we come in contact with have
absolutely no common sense. At least it is good to see that it is not that way
in all jurisdictions.
okie | 10:16 a.m. April 4, 2008
Why cant people just mind their own business. It seems like law enforcement
would have some more important things to do than harass a bunch of religious
nuts. The media is probably feeding ten more domestic terrorists like mcviegh
right now spouting off their retoric of this being another waco.
The Texan | 10:21 a.m. April 4, 2008
Those making comments about Waco are wrong.
Automatic rifle fire came from the compound when the Federal agents came to serve the warrants. Why do you think it turned into a standoff?
Try conspiratorial theories elsewhere, please.
Automatic rifle fire came from the compound when the Federal agents came to serve the warrants. Why do you think it turned into a standoff?
Try conspiratorial theories elsewhere, please.
Jeremy Parker | 10:29 a.m. April 4, 2008
"He has kept in communication with them at key moments in the government
crackdown on the polygamous church."
Don't you mean "at key moments during the crackdown on widespread problems within the FLDS community?"
Or are you admitting that this IS government making a law respecting religion?
If this guy doesn't want to Waco all these kids then why the heck does he go in like Rambo in what you are calling a RAID with "an armored personnel carrier," and state and local police blocking off the entrances and exits to the compound?
Just another abuse of power like the standoff in Viola, Wiss trying to steal a man's home over $5000.
I am ashamed of my country today!
Don't you mean "at key moments during the crackdown on widespread problems within the FLDS community?"
Or are you admitting that this IS government making a law respecting religion?
If this guy doesn't want to Waco all these kids then why the heck does he go in like Rambo in what you are calling a RAID with "an armored personnel carrier," and state and local police blocking off the entrances and exits to the compound?
Just another abuse of power like the standoff in Viola, Wiss trying to steal a man's home over $5000.
I am ashamed of my country today!
"Strongholds?" and CPS rocks! | 10:54 a.m. April 4, 2008
To whomever wrote this article:
I would hardly refer to Colorado City and Hildale (the two little FLDS towns on the border of AZ & UT as "strongholds". They are open and more like shanty towns. Drive by sometime.
Also- CPS has been wonderful (in the northern UT area). As an educator I have seen them intervene often on behalf of children. They do their best to help parents recognize and take responsibility for their children, and provide resources for them in which to do it. CPS employees are the angels of mercy. They should receive double the salaries that they do.
Thank you to all of them. Continue your good work! Let's care for the children.
I would hardly refer to Colorado City and Hildale (the two little FLDS towns on the border of AZ & UT as "strongholds". They are open and more like shanty towns. Drive by sometime.
Also- CPS has been wonderful (in the northern UT area). As an educator I have seen them intervene often on behalf of children. They do their best to help parents recognize and take responsibility for their children, and provide resources for them in which to do it. CPS employees are the angels of mercy. They should receive double the salaries that they do.
Thank you to all of them. Continue your good work! Let's care for the children.
To Jeremy Parker | 11:40 a.m. April 4, 2008
The man in Wisconsin surrendered. The bills had been stacking up since 2001. Get
some facts before you start apologizing for things, it makes you look immature
in the extreme.
DPS cars are blocking the entrance, they're there to assist CPS. Specifically because men with rifles and night vision gear patrol the place. You would wait until a CPS worker is killed and then want to know why they didn't bring DPS in first. Dumb comment.
This has nothing to do with religion unless the FLDS are in violation of child protection laws. Yes, some of their odious practices are against the law and no one is going to jail here are they?
We're ashamed of people like you Jeremy who fly off the handle with so few facts and end up looking foolish.
DPS cars are blocking the entrance, they're there to assist CPS. Specifically because men with rifles and night vision gear patrol the place. You would wait until a CPS worker is killed and then want to know why they didn't bring DPS in first. Dumb comment.
This has nothing to do with religion unless the FLDS are in violation of child protection laws. Yes, some of their odious practices are against the law and no one is going to jail here are they?
We're ashamed of people like you Jeremy who fly off the handle with so few facts and end up looking foolish.
To Jake Smith | 11:37 a.m. April 4, 2008
You forgot modern day society. Spread the blame around, dude.
Karl Jensen | 11:42 a.m. April 4, 2008
There is absolutely NOTHING religious about the practice of polygamy. It is only
for the purpose of self indulgence for these fellows, and taking over the will
and minds of others. It has never been good and never will be. People indulge in
this practice are selfish, pompous, arrogant men with no consideration for the
feelings of a woman. I'm certain if the shoe was on the other foot of these
degenerates they would simply go nut's. However, they are already WACKOS! I
am tired of hearing about children being abused suffering over the hands of
these perverts and their so called religious gratification! They are use GOD for
their practice and that turns my stomach!
To Ed | 11:43 a.m. April 4, 2008
You repeat a 100 year old rumor.
The only coincidence was the dates.
The only coincidence was the dates.
To those clueless posters | 11:51 a.m. April 4, 2008
Look at the picture accompanying this article.
Those are 4 DPS cruisers, not armored personnel carriers. Ford doesn't make 4 door armored personnel carriers for the DPS.
DUH!
Those are 4 DPS cruisers, not armored personnel carriers. Ford doesn't make 4 door armored personnel carriers for the DPS.
DUH!
eldgirl | 11:53 a.m. April 4, 2008
I worked with CPS for several years in this area. They are wonderful caring
individuals for the most part. Their employement turnover rate is horrific due
to the fact that so many times they are unable to help hurting kids because
legally hands are tied. Do not blame CPS. The system is far from perfect and
they are the first ones to tell you that. As for the way they came in well
history initself will tell you religious groups love to be maryters for their
cause and manipulate how our government looks. Protecting and being on the safe
side is DPS and CPS only option considering past dealings with religious sects
seculded from population. I for one am glad they are being cautious and it is
for their protection as well as the FLDS. Crazy judgemental fanatics have not
made FLDS life easy around here. Let's join together and pray for safety
of all involved on all sides. Let's pray for the children who are scared
and confused and pray for our officers and state employees who are doing their
best amongst all these jugemental by standers as well.
Wife of LEO | 11:50 a.m. April 4, 2008
Wait until the investigation is over and the real story comes out, if you
understand the way these people operate then this will all make a lot more
sense.
James Justice | 11:57 a.m. April 4, 2008
Just more of the same. Anti's are here throwing out accusations without
any proof, and their solution is to throw everyone in jail. Nice witch hunt
tactic.
Instead of going to Ranch with one CPS worker and entering the single home of the person who called, they block off streets, no one in or out, bring multiple police vehicles and even an armed personnel carrier. They claim that they are getting advice from the Washington County, UT sheriff, yet when did the Sheriff ever investigate abuse with armed personnel carriers and a herd of police cars?
Persecutorial, Ku Klux Klan-esque tactics are alive and well in these United States of Amerika!
Instead of going to Ranch with one CPS worker and entering the single home of the person who called, they block off streets, no one in or out, bring multiple police vehicles and even an armed personnel carrier. They claim that they are getting advice from the Washington County, UT sheriff, yet when did the Sheriff ever investigate abuse with armed personnel carriers and a herd of police cars?
Persecutorial, Ku Klux Klan-esque tactics are alive and well in these United States of Amerika!
snickerdoodle | 11:55 a.m. April 4, 2008
Why wasn't this under "LDS News?"
Fact: the FLDS church split from the LDS church when the LDS church dropped polygamy. This is nothing against the LDS church, as so many organizations encounter disagreements or split-offs. (I heard a story about a church that split over whether Adam had a belly button) I am glad the police are involved with the FLDS now because if any of you heard Carolyn Jessop's story, you know how brutal the community is.
I read 'annonymous'at 9:26 a.m.'s response to this. Children are abused, and CPS agents are needed sometimes.
Dear CPS agents, please withdraw every single little girl from that compound. They will be abused.
Fact: the FLDS church split from the LDS church when the LDS church dropped polygamy. This is nothing against the LDS church, as so many organizations encounter disagreements or split-offs. (I heard a story about a church that split over whether Adam had a belly button) I am glad the police are involved with the FLDS now because if any of you heard Carolyn Jessop's story, you know how brutal the community is.
I read 'annonymous'at 9:26 a.m.'s response to this. Children are abused, and CPS agents are needed sometimes.
Dear CPS agents, please withdraw every single little girl from that compound. They will be abused.
Stronghold | 11:56 a.m. April 4, 2008
"A place that serves as the center of a group, as of militants or of
persons holding a controversial viewpoint: The campus was a stronghold of
liberalism."
"An area dominated or occupied by a special group or distinguished by a special quality: a feminist stronghold; a stronghold of democracy."
It would seem the reporter used the word correctly.
"An area dominated or occupied by a special group or distinguished by a special quality: a feminist stronghold; a stronghold of democracy."
It would seem the reporter used the word correctly.
JND | 12:02 p.m. April 4, 2008
Stay out of Texas.
Too "The Texan 10:21" | 12:09 p.m. April 4, 2008
Where in this article does it state that "Automatic gunfire came from the
compound"?
All we know is what we read. Don't call us conspiratorial just because we don't have some information you have.
All we know is what we read. Don't call us conspiratorial just because we don't have some information you have.
To Money: | 12:12 p.m. April 4, 2008
What a dumb comment.
The CPS took a premature child from an immature couple down here and then the child ended up in the hospital. Guess who paid the bills? CPS. To the tune of $347,000.
They get more money, nothing could be further from the truth? When they remove children from a household, the children become they're responsibility financially until I believe they're 18. the more children they have to take care of the more of taxpayers money they need to do the job. That's a given.
What planet are you on?
The CPS took a premature child from an immature couple down here and then the child ended up in the hospital. Guess who paid the bills? CPS. To the tune of $347,000.
They get more money, nothing could be further from the truth? When they remove children from a household, the children become they're responsibility financially until I believe they're 18. the more children they have to take care of the more of taxpayers money they need to do the job. That's a given.
What planet are you on?
Hey SISCO | 12:23 p.m. April 4, 2008
DON'T GET CARRIED AWAY WITH THE ACCOLADES! WARREN JEFFS ADMITTED HE
WASN'T NO PROPHET RIGHT ON TV..SO THIS AIN'T NO RELIGION ANY MORE THAN
RONALD MC DONALDS FRANCHISES.
Chester | 12:48 p.m. April 4, 2008
Man, I wish polygamist people would just disappear. From the news, that is. Not
from the world. Plus, I mean, seriously, do they really think God will punish
them if they have just ONE wife?
no name | 12:50 p.m. April 4, 2008
To those who said that we just need to mind our own buisness and leave the FLDS
coumunity alone I have one thing to say the bible said to fallow the laws of the
land. so when you stop poligamy they wont watch you any more. CPS does the
best they can. I bet the only reason they went in with amored cars was because
the leader of your church ran from the goverment for a coulple of years so they
probebly felt that they had to take procaution to protect themselvs
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It's too bad that Utah is not as awesome as Byu or Utah might have a chance...
People get mad and angry at this whole mess. Seems like Brown is taking the...
This is sad. The government has no right to tell anyone who they can hire or...
To "Obama's FINE! | 5:12 a.m. " the problem is his health care reform will...
To me this incident tells me we are gradually sliding back into our comfort...
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Child Protective Service: An oxymoron to end all oxymorons. These people, in all states, don't cae about the childen. They care about their rules and regulations, office politics, promotions and power.
To protect the children would mean kepig children AWAY FROM CPS.