Deseret News | Reader comments: High school sports cater to the elite

Reader comments
Doug Robinson: High school sports cater to the elite

Tell Timpview this | 12:13 a.m. April 1, 2008

"the purpose of high school sports is to provide a rallying point for high schools and their communities. It's an opportunity for people to cheer for local players, and along the way they (kids and parents) learn discipline, team play, sportsmanship, work ethic, commitment, fair play, etc. Bringing in kids from another part of town and tilting the competitive balance are antithetical to that purpose. That's why kids are banned from transferring to a school purely for athletic reasons. The rules are designed to benefit many, not a few."

Do those at Timpview share this philosophy?

SLC'er | 12:28 a.m. April 1, 2008

Agreed, this whole USC charter school idea is a joke. How fair is it going to be when they are competing against some of the teams in the valley? Well, I guess Timpview and Cottonwood already do it, so what's the difference between a 3rd team? Kidding guys, no need to get all ruffled, not being a sore loser, I can't verify those allegations, all just rumors.

Minerman | 1:09 a.m. April 1, 2008

This article is all over the place. So you want funding for kids intramural sports, or for us to have euro-style club teams? And if we do away with highschool teams, why would the kids participate in intramurals. I played highschool sports. Lots of em. When football tryouts came around, there weren't 3000 kids out there wanting to play (and I went to the biggest highschool in the state back then). There was MAYBE 200. 100 made the varsity, less made the JV, and everyone else either went back to their x-box, or played little league football, or Jr. Jazz. Heck, the wrestling team didn't even HAVE cuts. If you made it thru the first month, you were on the team. Highschool sports is pretty good where it's at. Nothings perfect, and we should always be striving for it, but, with the occassional exception of a kid who wants to transfer to a better team...it works pretty smooth.

Comments continue below

For all the kids | 1:09 a.m. April 1, 2008

This is the best article I've read on the subject. I'd add these two points:

First, most men in prison started their criminal career in the hours right after school, during their early teens. More sports participation means saving more kids from a life of crime. I know it did that for me.

The more level the playing field, the more kids participate, and the more kids benefit. Every time one challenged kid goes to a "better," i.e., economically advantaged school, it discourages many more equally challenged but not equally talented kids, so they then don't go out for the team the "elite" kid abandoned.

Second, it doesn't have to be either inter-scholastic or intramural, it can, and should be, both.

Just watch | 5:05 a.m. April 1, 2008

the scores when region baseball starts and you will see the playing field is not level. Watch how many time CWOOD "ten runs" their opponent. I'm sure both sides are having a great time when that happens. I know their is always going to be a winner and a loser but it gets out of hand.

hangman | 8:19 a.m. April 1, 2008

Best April Fools Story of the Day!

USC | 8:46 a.m. April 1, 2008

Most of us over sports minded dads have thought of this scholl concept before, but have never had the "whatever" to make it happen.
Does society cater to the elite? Darn right. That is why many of us work hard, because we want to be catered to.
If this is a bad idea, the market will correct it. As for blaming our societies fat problem on not having co-ed sports, I do not agree. I blame it on not having bike lanes, making it so we have to drive our kids to school. Write a story on that one.

Agree | 8:59 a.m. April 1, 2008

Great article, Doug!
If USC is granted participation, down with the UHSA!

Good point, hangman | 9:05 a.m. April 1, 2008

But what makes it an excellent April Fool's joke is that the premise -- a school dedicated to only sports -- is not that far-fetched.

Just look at the SEC.

Tom | 9:21 a.m. April 1, 2008

It is amazing how much genetics differs in each part of the valley. There are schools which end up the year with no team participating in State Competition. However, they have athletes from their areas taking advantage of the transfer rule through whatever manipulation they can come up with. Allowing free transfers for whatever reason will continue to ensure that some schools with our children never know athletic success and the school spirit it engenders.

The issue of play where you want is mainly an issue of schools along the Wasatch Front. Generally the small school don't lose as many students due to athletics because the sacrifice is too great to get the student at the neighboring school over an hour away.

UHSAA has not found a solution yet, in spite of their trying different strategies and looking at programs in other states with the same issue. It appears all we can do is slow it down amongst those who are unwilling to manipulate and tell their lies.

Funny | 10:07 a.m. April 1, 2008

I think it's funny how no matter what the sport, the school that wins always gets accused of doing something "cheap" in order to win. Schools don't recruit athletes. Good atheletes want to play for good programs, and that's why year in and year out alot of the same schools have the best sports programs.

KG | 10:17 a.m. April 1, 2008

I can see two sides here. Sure, it is difficult that cuts have to be made, and that some kids don't get to play high school sports. I got cut from the basketball team in 8th grade, and I know how it hurts some kids. However, I went to work and made myself better and made the team and ended up a varsity starter. Disappointment is part of sports, but character is built and revealed at times by disappointment.
That does not mean, though, that schools should be able to recruit or "transfer" athletes and the disappointment of losing is fine in that case. The playing field should be level. As far as I am aware, if a student gets cut from the school team, there is usually some kind of a recreation program in the town for them to participate in. If they can't handle getting cut, they shouldn't try out.

KG | 10:23 a.m. April 1, 2008

On another aspect of this subject: A very close friend of mine is a HS baseball coach. He has been relatively successful, taking state 3 times in about 17 years. Not too bad. Last year a mother was furious when her child was cut from the team. She thought her child ought to be allowed to play, even though he is severly handicapped. I am not sure his exact diagnosis, but he is in now way fit to be on a baseball field simply because he would be in severe danger. He could not protect himself from a hit or thrown ball. The mother thought that the coach was way out of line by not letting him participate. High school sports are a privelage, and unfortunately not everyone gets to participate. That is life. It is unfair at times, but that is how one learns and grows. It is an impossible goal to try to accomodate every student athetically. We still haven't figured out how to accomodate every student academically, which should come first--after all, it is school, and these are student athletes.
Play where you live; don't recruit or transfer for sports; compete, and have fun--win or lose.

Legal Beagle | 11:13 a.m. April 1, 2008

For All the Kids wrote:"First, most men in prison started their criminal career in the hours right after school, during their early teens. More sports participation means saving more kids from a life of crime. I know it did that for me." Although I agree that after-school sports does help keep kids out of trouble, that role is better served by kids having at least one parent to come home to after school, who helps them with homework, takes them to activities, and is involved (not domineering) in their child's life. If parents would be there for their children after school, many behavioral problems described by this commentor would decrease dramatically.
As for the issue of play where you live, clearly it is the parents of these child athletes who are driving the effort to move their kids to "elite" schools because parents dream of scholarships for their kids and to live vicariously through their child's achievements. 90% of kids play school sports for fun. Fun is found where their friends are. Their friends are in their neighborhood: ergo, play where you live is in harmony with what the kids want. Parents, grow up and live your own dreams.

KG to Funny | 11:20 a.m. April 1, 2008

Funny, you have missed the point. Whether or not the schools recruit is one thing, but a student going to a different school just because they want to be coached by someone or be part of that program is wrong also. Play where you live! It isn't fair to move to another school to be part of that program. That is for college, not high school.

Brett | 11:32 a.m. April 1, 2008

Doug:

Either you never played high school sports, or you simply have no idea what you are talking about. One doesn't need to start or be 1st string to make a significant contribution to a team, or to get a substantial amount of exercise. What do you think the non-starters do during practice all week, watch Oprah and eat bon bons? They work on their skills, learn discipline, mental toughness, and sportsmanship. Many kids have the opportunity to improve and acquire starting positions if they stick to it and develop their skills. Even those kids who have very little athletic ability can see improvement in themselves, learn discipline, teamwork, mental toughness and gain self confidence without starting on their team. Don't you think these skills can help them in the future? To suggest that all non-starters are just getting fat (with no facts or evidence to support your flawed theory), you unfairly discredit hundreds of hard working kids in this state who are aquiring skill sets that they cannot get elsewhere, which skills will help them succeed in the future. I hope you support your claims with facts and evidence in the future, rather than resort to slopply journalism.

Anonymous | 11:37 a.m. April 1, 2008

It's hard to respect this article when the writer is a coach at one of the most elite, wealthy and competitive high schools in the state. Is his head buried in the sand?

stupid | 12:16 p.m. April 1, 2008

Could Mr.Jones at least be original, "USC Trojans" I believe that name is already taken. Why not just call them the BYU Cougars or the Utah Utes. Please the school name doesn't even match the initials USC.
STUPID!!!!!!!!!.

Anonymous | 12:20 p.m. April 1, 2008

Robinson is one of the biggest elitist on your staff. He certainly needs to write an article like this.

Area players | 12:39 p.m. April 1, 2008

I hate Bingham and Alta, simply becuase of rivalry, but they win with local players. There are so many kids there, that they are just loaded with local talent. Look at their little league football programs. You have to play where you live, and they win like nobody else. Riverton is right behind them. As as those (Riverton) kids get older, I expect the high school to do a lot of winning with local players as well.

Skyline always won with a lot of players outside of their boundaries. Now that those numbers have dropped, so have their wins. Now Skyline is hoping to drop in classification.

Duke | 1:57 p.m. April 1, 2008

Right On, Doug Robinson. It appears from the comments though, that the supporters of those schools you indirectly point a finger at aren't happy with your argument.

Starts at the top. | 2:36 p.m. April 1, 2008

The problem starts at the top. The kids and the parents that push the elitism see sports as their ticket to stardom and wealth. We need to start at the top and take the professional athletes back down where they really belong in society. When we have accomplished that the results will trickle down to the lower levels.

Hey Brett, | 6:57 p.m. April 1, 2008

there is at least one high school baseball team in which about midway thru the season the coach will send everybody but his starters over to his practice field to work out on their own without the benefit of any coaches guidance. They do soft toss because they no longer get live batting practice. If they are a pitcher they throw to a back up catcher also with the benefit of a coaches guidance. If they start to devolp any bad habits or need to tweak their mechanics nobody is there to instruct them. The coaches put full focus on the varsity starters so that they can make another state title run. Its great for the starters but a bad deal for the non starters. I'm sure this is the exception because not many schools(one that I know of) have a full size practice infield.

Truth Be Known | 12:28 p.m. April 2, 2008

No high school trophy will get your kids a college scholarship folks. Skill level and skill level alone is what gets you to the next level. Money may buy you into a college program but it won't put your butt on the playing field! Example: If you have a son that can throw 85 mph with control and he goes to this almighty USC school, and Woods Cross, for example has a pitcher throwing 90 mph with control and takes last in region every year. Guess who's getting the scholarship? "You may have a bigger head but someone else got your bread"

Reality Check | 11:42 a.m. April 3, 2008

UHSAA is going to be feeling the pressure to buckle under to this school, either that or incur the wrath of certain State Legislators who have hands ready for those all important contributions. Jones of course can open up his school and scholarship anyone they want to. Imagine the temptation these athletes and their parents will feel, couple that with the "high" they will get at the offer and we can see how easy it will be to fill their fields and courts with the country's elite high school athletes. (yes it will come to that). That being said, we should not provide them with bodies for the slaughter and games with which to fill their version of the coliseum. If you do it will mark the beginning of the end for UHSAA.

DH | 12:46 p.m. April 3, 2008

My son was an All-State pitcher for Lone Peak baseball a couple of years ago and the amount of money and time needed to get him to that level was staggering. Basically, he played year - round baseball from the 8th grade on. The club fees where around $4000 per year and in order to make the team and then start in high school you really had no choice but to cave in and pay the price. The high school experience was great but out of about 300 kids that started playing baseball in the Alpine,Highland, Cedar Hills area in little league only 9 seniors made it all the way to high school varsity and about half of those went on the play college ball. Youth sports today is all about money ... period! Forget playing for the "love of the game". Forget the concept of "belonging to a team" and what that does for self esteem. The presure to make it to the next level is HUGE and kids basically have to throw away their youth and conform to the system or not try out.

KG to DH | 1:35 p.m. April 3, 2008

I disagree. I played and started varsity for four teams in high school and we were successful on every team. I was not a stellar athlete, and it was "only 3A", but I would not trade the fun I had and the things I learned in all four sports for a scholarship in one. Even though some people have made it a money game, I believe it should still be about molding our youth to be the people they and we hope they will become. Leave the money and recruiting to the college and pro levels.

Hey KG | 6:36 p.m. April 3, 2008

turn the page. That may have been the case 20 yrs ago when you went to school but not any more. Unless it is a very small school with a small student body kids just don't play multiple sports. Each coach wants them to focus on their sport yr round.

KG is from a small school | 9:51 a.m. April 4, 2008

Many kids at smaller schools play multiple sports now and it's way under-rated. It's great to be well rounded and enjoy sports for the right reasons. Not many get scholarships, but that's not the main reason to play sports anyway.
Many kids do work on all three sports year around. These kids go to camps for each sport they play, plus spend individual working on the skills needed for each sport. Then go camping, fishing, hunting etc..
Variety is the spice of life.

Dnews Webman | 11:46 a.m. April 4, 2008

I posted a comment about last night on this story see: TO DH, it referenced 23 of my players going on to college baseball. I want that comment posted. Threr was nothing abusive etc. Either you post it or I will no for certain that you guys don't post comments that are logical and make people think beyond just YOUR article.

t_stuke | 8:07 a.m. April 5, 2008

To whoever it was that accused Mr. Robinson of being a hypocritical recruiter...

Alta is one of the largest schools in the state. He doesn't NEED to recruit.

Look at a smaller school that might feel the need to compete with Alta as a region rival. Jordan has around 1600 kids. That's nearly a thousand less than Alta. I've heard reports of kids who played football in little league for one school that are going to other schools to play on scholarship.

Scholarship? Wait what? Apparently there are kids who do not have to pay fees to play at other schools. I have even heard reports of teams giving a kid a gift card of up to $1000 depending on how good he is to go to the gateway and buy cleats, girdle, workout shirt, etc.

My point? Quit being dirty and just play where you live.

Jack | 10:18 a.m. April 8, 2008

Thank you, Doug Robinson. This article was exactly right on all accounts. Why should an academic institution be spending money on building up sports teams? Articles appear almost daily bemoaning the lack of funding for schools, yet here we are spending money to promote sports that could be handled as well by a sports club. I support physical activity; I know the benefits. I have had children who participate in school sports. I have seen children abused by high school coaches; interestingly, the principal of this private school was one of the worst I have seen. How nice it would be for those kids to be able to go to a healthier program. Let's focus on why our kids are going to school.

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