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LDS Church apologizes to Catholics
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Funny Utahns.... | 6:52 p.m. March 12, 2008
You folks are CRAZY!!!
Three twenty-year-old kids did something disrepectful...
WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Teenagers are being killed in the inner cities.
Dude shot up Trolley Square.
Iraq.
Osama is hiding in Pakistan.
I mean, don't we spend just a little bit too much time freaking out about Mormons and BYU?
Three twenty-year-old kids did something disrepectful...
WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Teenagers are being killed in the inner cities.
Dude shot up Trolley Square.
Iraq.
Osama is hiding in Pakistan.
I mean, don't we spend just a little bit too much time freaking out about Mormons and BYU?
Bigots | 7:00 p.m. March 12, 2008
If you blame an entire group for the actions of a few, particularly if their
actions run counter to what the group teaches, you are a bigot. Plain and
simple.
Comments continue below
mom from wv | 7:43 p.m. March 12, 2008
I can't believe the world is judging the entire lds religion on a stupid
act of a few missionaries. i am sure if the tables were turned we wouldn't
even know what religion the vandilizers were!
Larry Lythgoe | 7:50 p.m. March 12, 2008
We as Mormons need to remember just one thing and that is one of the Aricles of
Faith namely number 12 which state:
We believe in being subject to Kings, Presidents, Rulers and Magstrates, in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law.
When I was younger in heard many time boys will be boys, but back then we took our medicine like the men we should have been in the first place. To say that we all have done something wrong and lets not ruin these boys life for what they did. It seem to me that they were the one doing the ruining of their own life. So Elders buck up and take your punishment like the men you should have been back in 2006!!!!
We believe in being subject to Kings, Presidents, Rulers and Magstrates, in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law.
When I was younger in heard many time boys will be boys, but back then we took our medicine like the men we should have been in the first place. To say that we all have done something wrong and lets not ruin these boys life for what they did. It seem to me that they were the one doing the ruining of their own life. So Elders buck up and take your punishment like the men you should have been back in 2006!!!!
Realist | 8:03 p.m. March 12, 2008
Why is this even an issue, just a couple of kids joking around. I dont even know
if this would be considered a religious site. Just rediculious and feeds the
hordes that would attack the LDS church, I am ashamed at the media as this is a
non issue.
Andy N | 8:34 p.m. March 12, 2008
"The Three Dumb-egos"
Let's not stick up for these "boys." They messed up. Their egocentric arrogance is to blame, not their youth. They broke mission rules, they showed extreme irreverence for another faith while serving as missionaries. And why were there three and not four? If Catholic Priests threw paint against the Salt Lake Temple we'd scream long and loud.
The names of these criminals should be removed from Church records forever as a wake up to any other missionaries who want to act like jerks. The Church is doing the right thing stepping out from behind "The Three Dumb-egos." If President Hinckley were alive, he'd smack them across the shins with his cane.
I only hope the Church can find a respectful way to rebuild bridges with our Catholic friends and neighbors.
This story needs to be shared, so that it doesn't happen again!
Let's not stick up for these "boys." They messed up. Their egocentric arrogance is to blame, not their youth. They broke mission rules, they showed extreme irreverence for another faith while serving as missionaries. And why were there three and not four? If Catholic Priests threw paint against the Salt Lake Temple we'd scream long and loud.
The names of these criminals should be removed from Church records forever as a wake up to any other missionaries who want to act like jerks. The Church is doing the right thing stepping out from behind "The Three Dumb-egos." If President Hinckley were alive, he'd smack them across the shins with his cane.
I only hope the Church can find a respectful way to rebuild bridges with our Catholic friends and neighbors.
This story needs to be shared, so that it doesn't happen again!
And they shall | 10:02 p.m. March 12, 2008
go down in history and live in infamy! Now i feel better as i cast my own stone.
glasslooker | 10:02 p.m. March 12, 2008
To: LDS reality check
Article of Faith #11 is contradictary to the massive proselyting program of the LDS church. If you truely believe that people should be left to worship how, where or what they may, why spend all that effort to convince others that their faith will not save them?
Article of Faith #11 is contradictary to the massive proselyting program of the LDS church. If you truely believe that people should be left to worship how, where or what they may, why spend all that effort to convince others that their faith will not save them?
another person's opinion | 11:21 p.m. March 12, 2008
Funny how in the news if an LDS member ever did anything wrong, it's
plastered for days, but if another member of any demoniation were to do
something wrong, would we hear about it for days? NO!
All churches have good people and not so good people. You can't blame a religion for it's members actions. They didn't tell their members to deface/disrepect or whatever the damaged done was. It's the individual's decision to do what they did! They should be held accountable for their own actions.
And to those of you who claim you are Christains and bashing them oughta be ashamed of yourself. The Lord is all forgiving for those who ask for it, That's what confession is for according to the Catholic church, and so forth as in all other religions.
So quit your bellyaching and if the Church apologized, turned the names into the proper authorities, and want to make restituation, let them, it's the way the Lord intended all of us to do/be. And as someone said earlier, let it go and move on!
All churches have good people and not so good people. You can't blame a religion for it's members actions. They didn't tell their members to deface/disrepect or whatever the damaged done was. It's the individual's decision to do what they did! They should be held accountable for their own actions.
And to those of you who claim you are Christains and bashing them oughta be ashamed of yourself. The Lord is all forgiving for those who ask for it, That's what confession is for according to the Catholic church, and so forth as in all other religions.
So quit your bellyaching and if the Church apologized, turned the names into the proper authorities, and want to make restituation, let them, it's the way the Lord intended all of us to do/be. And as someone said earlier, let it go and move on!
To Realist | 11:46 p.m. March 12, 2008
Why would a church not be a religious site????Because it's Catholic????
re glasslooker | 12:14 a.m. March 13, 2008
umm,, maybe cause they understand that it won't and they actually care
about the human family. Oh wait, i'm sorry, no they don't cause a few
missionaries got in trouble for being disrespectful to another religion, so that
makes the church false and their articles of faiths. How about, instead of
whining, say no thanks when they come to your door like i do with the jw's?
just a thought.
Steve | 12:39 a.m. March 13, 2008
The key here is sending the right message.
What happened was utterly inexcusable. So, the punishment should be intensely harsh.
It would be appropriate to disfellowship all three elders/former elders. That would send a strong message that such behavior will not be tolerated.
No excuses. No shuffling around. Simple, harsh and deserved punishment.
What happened was utterly inexcusable. So, the punishment should be intensely harsh.
It would be appropriate to disfellowship all three elders/former elders. That would send a strong message that such behavior will not be tolerated.
No excuses. No shuffling around. Simple, harsh and deserved punishment.
Every Day | 12:54 a.m. March 13, 2008
To Funny Utahns- Thanks, I feel similar. The boys did something stupid. No one
got hurt. The church apologized. So what else do you want? Plus, most people who
leave angered comments here, probably did something in their lives, too, that
they're not exactly proud of. We should should show a little more
compassion.
By the way, I've been an LDS missionary and I had my share of hate and ridicule directed toward me by so called "religious people". It occurs every day, everywhere around the world. Cut the boys some slack!
By the way, I've been an LDS missionary and I had my share of hate and ridicule directed toward me by so called "religious people". It occurs every day, everywhere around the world. Cut the boys some slack!
Daniel Foote | 1:35 a.m. March 13, 2008
I grew up near San Luis. In fact, San Luis is the oldest settlement in
Colorado. Not only that, but Colorado's US Senetor, Ken Salazar is from
the area. Nearby are Mormon Settlements from the late 1800's. I have been
to some of the shrines and artwork on the hills of San Luis. If I were to
guess, the decapitated statue was probably that way before the Missionaries came
across it.
Even without vandalizm, the missionaries showed very poor judgement, but,I would say more of a lack of sensitivity - sensitivity that is necessary if one wishes to form bonds and respect from those with differing beliefs.
This could, however, be a good opportunity. Many of the ancestors of the residents of San Luis helped some of the early Mormon settlers become accustomed to the region. This should be an opportunity for the local LDS folks to reach out to their neighbors. It might also be a good opportunity for the church itself to remember it's past and thank the decendants who showed caring and love to some very poor Mormon settlers from the Southern United States during some tough winter months.
Even without vandalizm, the missionaries showed very poor judgement, but,I would say more of a lack of sensitivity - sensitivity that is necessary if one wishes to form bonds and respect from those with differing beliefs.
This could, however, be a good opportunity. Many of the ancestors of the residents of San Luis helped some of the early Mormon settlers become accustomed to the region. This should be an opportunity for the local LDS folks to reach out to their neighbors. It might also be a good opportunity for the church itself to remember it's past and thank the decendants who showed caring and love to some very poor Mormon settlers from the Southern United States during some tough winter months.
caroline | 7:13 a.m. March 13, 2008
I apologize to the Catholic parish as well. I feel sad and sorry for the
elders' actions as well. I am sure it is without malice. Being foolish and
young is what they got them into trouble. I used to be a Catholic and I
don't really care much about the statues, actually I am kind of SCARED of
them. But I am not for breaking someone else's property. I know another
religion that had done that though. No, not the LDS.
Just stop | 8:28 a.m. March 13, 2008
Why do you people argue about this? who cares they are 20 year old boys believe
what you will but dont argue its not gonna change anyones opinion
JW | 8:34 a.m. March 13, 2008
If the situation happened nearly two years ago, why is it bothering them now?
If your shrine was desecrated, wouldn't you know it by the feeling
you'd get? How are they sure that one of the missionaries broke the head
off the statue? What if he found it on the ground and was picking it up, and
the other missionary decided to take a picture? How can they charge them with
tresspass? Is this not a building open to the public?
johntvalentine | 8:41 a.m. March 13, 2008
How thankful I am, for the ATONEMENT of my SAVIOUR and LORD, JESUS CHRIST. These
young men need to raise their standards much higher!!! Repent and make
restitution. OH, how grateful, I am, for the MIRACLE OF FORGIVENESS.
to JW | 9:04 a.m. March 13, 2008
Thanks for pointing out that that was behavior that we all should shrug off. I
suppose it follows that people of other faiths should feel free to pick
themselves lovely bouquets and mock the BOM in Temple Square.
Oh, and it's been more than 100 years since Saints were forced out of Kirtland and Nauvoo. Guess it's time to get over that as well.
Oh, and it's been more than 100 years since Saints were forced out of Kirtland and Nauvoo. Guess it's time to get over that as well.
Frank | 9:30 a.m. March 13, 2008
Is it really any wonder that this happened? When you are taught from an early
age that the LDS church is the one and only true church upon the face of the
earth it lends to an attitude of superiority and wrongness in other religions.
Which in my opinion leads to the very actions these "dumb"
missionaries participated in.
Leaders and others can preach respect, hold up scripture supporting that and even us the Articles of Faith to prove that the church believes in respecting others, but preaching it and actually living it are to different things.
It is the undercurrent that the LDS faith and its belief in God are better than any other religion that causes this kind of disrespect. I don't think it is religious specific it happens in other religions as well. There needs to more teaching at church and home in regards to honoring other people and their beliefs. Until people move past the what they say they believe and ensure that their words and behavior and what children are taught really fit in with the actual belief this will continue to happen in varying forms no matter what rules are put in place.
Leaders and others can preach respect, hold up scripture supporting that and even us the Articles of Faith to prove that the church believes in respecting others, but preaching it and actually living it are to different things.
It is the undercurrent that the LDS faith and its belief in God are better than any other religion that causes this kind of disrespect. I don't think it is religious specific it happens in other religions as well. There needs to more teaching at church and home in regards to honoring other people and their beliefs. Until people move past the what they say they believe and ensure that their words and behavior and what children are taught really fit in with the actual belief this will continue to happen in varying forms no matter what rules are put in place.
Martha | 9:31 a.m. March 13, 2008
Old ideas are the most dangerous, and few ideas are older than religious ones.
Lamentably, these ideas are acquiring new life in America, Europe has recently
seen a frightening rebirth of antiSemitism, and the appeal of radical forms of
Islam appears to be increasing in the Muslim world. On and on it goes.
Intolerance breeds intolerance, as expressions of hatred fuel existing
insecurities and permit people to see their own aggression as legitimate
self-defense.
Two ideas typically foster religious intolerance and disrespect. The first is that one�s own religion is the only true religion and that other religions are false or morally incorrect. Much more dangerous is the second idea: that private citizens should band together to coerce other people into adhering to the values of their �correct� religious approach. It�s an idea that is catching on, even in many modern democracies. France�s reluctance to tolerate religious symbols in schools and the Hindu right wing�s repeated claims that minorities in India must become part of Hindu culture are disturbing recent examples. The resurgence of this kind of thinking poses a profound threat to liberal societies, which are based on ideas of liberty and equality.
Two ideas typically foster religious intolerance and disrespect. The first is that one�s own religion is the only true religion and that other religions are false or morally incorrect. Much more dangerous is the second idea: that private citizens should band together to coerce other people into adhering to the values of their �correct� religious approach. It�s an idea that is catching on, even in many modern democracies. France�s reluctance to tolerate religious symbols in schools and the Hindu right wing�s repeated claims that minorities in India must become part of Hindu culture are disturbing recent examples. The resurgence of this kind of thinking poses a profound threat to liberal societies, which are based on ideas of liberty and equality.
John Lambert | 9:54 a.m. March 13, 2008
For those who think this is a minor story outside of Utah, in our local paper
her in Michigan it recieved a nine paragraph article. The death of President
Hinckley by comparison recieved a one paragraph article, and this paper did not
mention President Monson being called at all.
Still wondering | 10:41 a.m. March 13, 2008
The article said that this may be a hate crime. I don't agree with that
sentiment. I was raised Catholic as was my wife. We converted to Mormonism in
our 20's. I know that this was very disrespectful, but I'm having a
hard time making the quantum leap to "hate crime"
A Utah Catholic | 10:49 a.m. March 13, 2008
My background:
Lived in Salt Lake 48 of my 53 years
Attended Parochial (Catholic) Schools through high school
Married to a non-practicing LSD lady
Teach Catholic Doctrine to middle school teenagers
Practicing Catholic
I have followed this story in the media and I make note that:
1)In one blog another missionary has photographic evidence that the same beheaded statue was that way at least 2 to 3 months prior to the picture that was posted on the Internet. The evidence has been forwarded to the proper authorities to negate the vandalism charge.
2)The young men, emphasis on young, representatives of the LSD Church conducted themselves in less than a stellar manner, which is being addressed by their church.
3)We all have done some things in life that we regretted and wish we had the opportunity to do over. Be honest with yourselves.
My real points:
Let you without sin cast the first stone.
�.forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us�.
Treat others as you would have them treat you.
Most will see this and �get it�. Some never will to them I hope you find a balance in your lives - Toa.
Lived in Salt Lake 48 of my 53 years
Attended Parochial (Catholic) Schools through high school
Married to a non-practicing LSD lady
Teach Catholic Doctrine to middle school teenagers
Practicing Catholic
I have followed this story in the media and I make note that:
1)In one blog another missionary has photographic evidence that the same beheaded statue was that way at least 2 to 3 months prior to the picture that was posted on the Internet. The evidence has been forwarded to the proper authorities to negate the vandalism charge.
2)The young men, emphasis on young, representatives of the LSD Church conducted themselves in less than a stellar manner, which is being addressed by their church.
3)We all have done some things in life that we regretted and wish we had the opportunity to do over. Be honest with yourselves.
My real points:
Let you without sin cast the first stone.
�.forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us�.
Treat others as you would have them treat you.
Most will see this and �get it�. Some never will to them I hope you find a balance in your lives - Toa.
To: Realist | 1:05 p.m. March 13, 2008
You have no idea how much damage this has caused! The town's people have
requested that the small church that was just built be donated to the town and
have asked that the mormons just leave the town. IS THAT REAL ENOUGH?
to Utah Catholic | 1:26 p.m. March 13, 2008
The Catholic treated the missionaries in the way they'd want to be treated.
They gave them free, unfettered access to the holiest place a Catholic church
has � a sanctuary. In another blog I read the story of a
preparing LDS missionary who went to a local priest and had all his questions
about Catholicism answered fully in preparation to go to a Catholic country to
try to convert Catholics to Mormonism even though the priest knew that was his
intention.
In return, the LDS would forbid Catholics from even attending the marriage of a child in an LDS temple. In asking a Catholic to abandon their religion they would be deliberately guarded in what critical information they shared before the LDS baptism. They unleash thousands of these immature missionaries on communities who don't welcome them. They baptize Catholic dead into the LDS without anyone's consent. And then, when their missionaries behave in disgraceful blasphemous manner, many attempt to minimize the disrespect and lie about the LDS' long tradition of teaching that the Catholic church is an agent of Satan.
In return, the LDS would forbid Catholics from even attending the marriage of a child in an LDS temple. In asking a Catholic to abandon their religion they would be deliberately guarded in what critical information they shared before the LDS baptism. They unleash thousands of these immature missionaries on communities who don't welcome them. They baptize Catholic dead into the LDS without anyone's consent. And then, when their missionaries behave in disgraceful blasphemous manner, many attempt to minimize the disrespect and lie about the LDS' long tradition of teaching that the Catholic church is an agent of Satan.
to Utah Catholic | 1:27 p.m. March 13, 2008
The issue isn't whether they broke a statue deliberately or found it.
(continuing)
The issue is that they were craven in their contempt for a consecrated place and their own Book of Mormon which most decent LDS are probably ashamed to see used in that manner.
Let us not forget that this was more than a momentary lapse as 19 year olds. It was something they chose years later to publicly flaunt as an act of continuing arrogance and contempt for the beliefs of others. They did not choose to have the world see them preaching their beliefs from one of their houses of worship. They wanted to show domination of yours.
The issue is that they were craven in their contempt for a consecrated place and their own Book of Mormon which most decent LDS are probably ashamed to see used in that manner.
Let us not forget that this was more than a momentary lapse as 19 year olds. It was something they chose years later to publicly flaunt as an act of continuing arrogance and contempt for the beliefs of others. They did not choose to have the world see them preaching their beliefs from one of their houses of worship. They wanted to show domination of yours.
Jenny | 1:27 p.m. March 13, 2008
I think it appropriate that the LDS Church has decided to take disciplinary
action against these young men (should they be found guilty through thorough
investigation). To not do so would be like endorsing their actions. What
message is the Church sending to missionaries and to the world if the actions of
these three elders are in the least bit supported by the main-stream LDS
community? The LDS Church needs to send the message loud and clear that actions
such as this are in no way acceptable by Church Standards. If for no other
reason, that these types of incidents will disappear among their own.
Grandma | 2:29 p.m. March 13, 2008
The LDS Church has issued an apology, which is appropriate, and I'm sure
the elders involved will do likewise once the investigation by the appropriate
authorities is concluded. It appears that some writers here are getting a lot
of exercise by jumping to conclusions, running down others, etc. As Judge Judy
would say, "Get over it!"
sorry | 2:41 p.m. March 13, 2008
I am so sad about this....I hope they can forgive and know we are taking it very
seriously.
Helena | 3:21 p.m. March 13, 2008
My husband & I were non-practising Catholics when we joined the LDS church
late in life. It is the best move we have ever made. It's like we hve
finally come home. We have been so blessed in our lives.
However, we have never denigrated other religions. Our daughter & her family are missionaries in China for their church (pentacostle) and we support their endeavers even though our doctrines differ. But they live the laws of God, believe in Jesus as their Savior just as we do.
What these missionaries did was wrong and possibly criminal and if charged and proven, then should pay the penalties. It is unfortunate that their behaviour reflects on our Church, but we learned early on that the Church is true even though some of the members are not. So please don't judge us by the actions of these young men. Judge us for the good we do in the world; good that is not shouted from the rooftops but done quietly and steadfastly.
However, we have never denigrated other religions. Our daughter & her family are missionaries in China for their church (pentacostle) and we support their endeavers even though our doctrines differ. But they live the laws of God, believe in Jesus as their Savior just as we do.
What these missionaries did was wrong and possibly criminal and if charged and proven, then should pay the penalties. It is unfortunate that their behaviour reflects on our Church, but we learned early on that the Church is true even though some of the members are not. So please don't judge us by the actions of these young men. Judge us for the good we do in the world; good that is not shouted from the rooftops but done quietly and steadfastly.
Nola | 3:54 p.m. March 13, 2008
As A Catholic, I Am Saddened to Read Of What Has Occured, Having Said This, No
One Is Perfect and I don't Want to See Bitterness and Hatred Come Out Of
This. We Respect Other's Religions and We Forgive.
Let Us Move On to Love One Another as Jesus Asked This Of Us.
Let Us Move On to Love One Another as Jesus Asked This Of Us.
Doug | 4:40 p.m. March 13, 2008
As a practicing Mormon I was shocked and apalled by what those missionaries did
and how disrespectful it was. We do not condone what was done, in fact we
abhore it, but you are so stupid you probably don't know what that
means.
Darren B. maybe you ought to read Elder Holland's talk, and before you accuse him of making fun of doctrine, take a look at what pastors across the country have said for 170 years about the Mormon church. Wait a minute looks like you too are guilty of the same horrible double standard.
Oh and if we were guilty of everything you accuse us of then church authorities would not be disipling those missionaries and they would still be serving.
Those missionaries deserve everything they have coming to them, both legal and church disipline. It was horrible and inexcusible and I personally want to apologize to the citizens of that town in Colorado. The man who the statue represented is a true American Hero.
Darren B. maybe you ought to read Elder Holland's talk, and before you accuse him of making fun of doctrine, take a look at what pastors across the country have said for 170 years about the Mormon church. Wait a minute looks like you too are guilty of the same horrible double standard.
Oh and if we were guilty of everything you accuse us of then church authorities would not be disipling those missionaries and they would still be serving.
Those missionaries deserve everything they have coming to them, both legal and church disipline. It was horrible and inexcusible and I personally want to apologize to the citizens of that town in Colorado. The man who the statue represented is a true American Hero.
True LDS | 6:43 p.m. March 13, 2008
In the end if we believe in truth there can only be one truth. Which path is
chosen is an individual choice but please choose wise as this will effect your
eternal existence.
Missionary experiences | 8:44 p.m. March 13, 2008
I've heard stories similar to this one(not quite so bad) but on my mission
my experience was completely opposite. I feel lucky to have been associated with
the elders that i worked with. they were not perfect but they were young men
whith conviction trying to do what was right (even behind the scenes). The
elders i met on my mission were some of the most hard-working, honest, kind and
selfless people i have ever met. That's just my experience over two years,
too bad a few give all the others a bad rep.
Anonymous | 8:58 p.m. March 13, 2008
The LDS church, of which I am a member, has many small sites throughout the
country. If one of these sites was desecrated I don't think people would be
saying "lay off," call it a "non-issue," or say that boys
will be boys.
The elders were 19-21 and they got carried away, and I'm sure they kept feeding off each other - I don't think this would have happened had it just been one person or maybe even two (I don't remember how many there were). That doesn't excuse what they did. They desecrated something that, though not held sacred by me, is held sacred by others. It was disrespectful and I'm sure will be the cause of great hindrance to the spreading of the gospel in that area.
The elders were 19-21 and they got carried away, and I'm sure they kept feeding off each other - I don't think this would have happened had it just been one person or maybe even two (I don't remember how many there were). That doesn't excuse what they did. They desecrated something that, though not held sacred by me, is held sacred by others. It was disrespectful and I'm sure will be the cause of great hindrance to the spreading of the gospel in that area.
Austin | 9:58 p.m. March 13, 2008
I for one, as a member of the LDS Church, am utterly ashamed at these Elders,
and any who have done anything similar. The fault of this dispicable mistake is
set completely on the shoulders of the Elders and no one else. Please do not
blame their parents, their home bishop, their missionary president, or anyone
else. They decided to make a bunch of stupid choices on the spot, and for that
they should be severely reprimanded. This sort of thing has happened to other
religions, Latter-day Saint properties included, and it should not be treated
any different. I am leaving on my own mission in May, and if I were going
somewhere where previous missionaries had set a bad example, it would impair my
own ability to teach. I apologize to the Catholic Church on their behalf, and
hope there are no hard feelings toward my church as a whole because of this act.
Mary | 1:34 a.m. March 14, 2008
I have lived in Utah for about 14 years. I am a very involved Catholic who
happens to live in a wonderfully predominate LDS neighborhood. My LDS brothers
and sisters are some of the finest people I have ever known. I believe this
action by the missionaries was a brief moment of bad judgement and completely
forgive them. I would LOVE to have a conversation with these young men about
the many similarities of our religions. God bless them all. I pray the
difficulties of this experience will enlighten their hearts. I have always
admirered the wonderful young missionaries that knock at our door and praise
their efforts. We really do learn most from our worst actions at times.
Patience | 9:54 a.m. March 14, 2008
"LDS Church apologizes to Catholics"
Apology accepted. Now lets move on...
Apology accepted. Now lets move on...
Helena | 9:25 a.m. March 15, 2008
To Darren B and all other mormon- haters:
If you get your information from anti-mormon sites, it is no wonder that you are so ignorant!!!
If your drive a Chevy Tahoe, do you go to the Ford dealer to get your parts? No!!
Then if you want to know what the LDS faith is about, perhaps you should ask one of our missionaries or members for the truth. Al you will get from your sites is vitriol, hatred and half-truths written by people who know absolutely nothing about our faith but persist in spreading vile mis-truths as the truth.
Wake up! Get the truth from a proper source and then think for yourself. And maybe there will be hope for you yet.
If you get your information from anti-mormon sites, it is no wonder that you are so ignorant!!!
If your drive a Chevy Tahoe, do you go to the Ford dealer to get your parts? No!!
Then if you want to know what the LDS faith is about, perhaps you should ask one of our missionaries or members for the truth. Al you will get from your sites is vitriol, hatred and half-truths written by people who know absolutely nothing about our faith but persist in spreading vile mis-truths as the truth.
Wake up! Get the truth from a proper source and then think for yourself. And maybe there will be hope for you yet.
Anonymous | 9:59 a.m. March 15, 2008
I am a non-Mormon living in Utah County. My son wore a cross to school in 2nd
grade and he was repeatedly told by the kids in his class that he was
"bad" and that Catholics are "bad", this continued through
5th grade. My other two children have suffered the same types of harassment
including repeatedly being told by their classmates that they are going to hell.
Out of the mouths of babes right?
I don't believe that the Mormon church teaches that other religions are bad, but the implication is there when children learn from birth that everyone needs to be converted. I believe what is implied is that other religions are not "real" and will not lead to heaven. So, why should they be respected if they are not equal to the Mormon church?
I don't believe that the Mormon church teaches that other religions are bad, but the implication is there when children learn from birth that everyone needs to be converted. I believe what is implied is that other religions are not "real" and will not lead to heaven. So, why should they be respected if they are not equal to the Mormon church?
Darren B. | 11:40 a.m. March 15, 2008
To Helena | 9:25 a.m.
You are mistaken. I got my information from James E. Talmage's book, The Great Apostasy, as well as the Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith History. These are published by YOUR CHURCH. And they contain obvious and clear anti-Catholic teachings.
Please do not jump to unfounded conclusions. Your over-reaction only confirms the paranoid attitude Mormons have.
You are mistaken. I got my information from James E. Talmage's book, The Great Apostasy, as well as the Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith History. These are published by YOUR CHURCH. And they contain obvious and clear anti-Catholic teachings.
Please do not jump to unfounded conclusions. Your over-reaction only confirms the paranoid attitude Mormons have.
Say again?? | 12:01 p.m. March 15, 2008
If an individual Mormon does something wonderful it is as if the whole church
was part of the great deed.
But if that same Mormon does something stupid and disrespectful it becomes the act of an misguided individual and has nothing to do with the church?
How does that work?
Try taking responsibility not just praise.
But if that same Mormon does something stupid and disrespectful it becomes the act of an misguided individual and has nothing to do with the church?
How does that work?
Try taking responsibility not just praise.
Anonymous | 1:15 p.m. March 15, 2008
It is a good point that Mormons tend to take credit for successes of their
members, but distance themselves and refuse to be blamed for the mistakes of
members (including missionaries who are official representative of the
Church).
Beyond that, the thing that puzzles me is why Mormons try to justify such things as this hypocritical tendency by reversing the accusations and saying that everyone else does the same thing!
For instance, a large majority of the comments here bring up the fact that other Churches have persecuted the Mormons, as if that somehow makes this desecration by these missionaries OK. Huh? That is a twisted morality, especially for a people who claim to be DIFFERENT, and PECULIAR, and BETTER because they have the ONE TRUE CHURCH!
In short, why do Mormons think they are justified by being no better than the rest of the "untrue" world?
What these missionaries did was WRONG, regardless of previous persecutions Mormons have experienced; regardless of the mistakes of other Churches; regardless of everything else - IT WAS WRONG!
Beyond that, the thing that puzzles me is why Mormons try to justify such things as this hypocritical tendency by reversing the accusations and saying that everyone else does the same thing!
For instance, a large majority of the comments here bring up the fact that other Churches have persecuted the Mormons, as if that somehow makes this desecration by these missionaries OK. Huh? That is a twisted morality, especially for a people who claim to be DIFFERENT, and PECULIAR, and BETTER because they have the ONE TRUE CHURCH!
In short, why do Mormons think they are justified by being no better than the rest of the "untrue" world?
What these missionaries did was WRONG, regardless of previous persecutions Mormons have experienced; regardless of the mistakes of other Churches; regardless of everything else - IT WAS WRONG!
Tom | 1:52 p.m. March 15, 2008
A. I converted from Catholicism to Mormonism. It is part of who I am. I will
always respect it. In the twelve years in the church, I haven't felt anyone
has been disrespectful of my origin.
B. It amazing that there are so many inflammatory comments here in the Utah paper. The Denver Post has zero comments on the article. There are plenty of mormons and catholics in Denver to comment on it, but they don't. Is this an example of a lack of civility in Utah? I recently took a job offer and have concerns...
C. I have always thought being able to comment on a story was a little goofy, and reading them was a waste of time. Now, I am totally sucked in...I have read most of them and have posted.
B. It amazing that there are so many inflammatory comments here in the Utah paper. The Denver Post has zero comments on the article. There are plenty of mormons and catholics in Denver to comment on it, but they don't. Is this an example of a lack of civility in Utah? I recently took a job offer and have concerns...
C. I have always thought being able to comment on a story was a little goofy, and reading them was a waste of time. Now, I am totally sucked in...I have read most of them and have posted.
to Helena | 10:39 p.m. March 15, 2008
If you take the time to read the various comments here and on Times &
Seasons (NOT anti-mormon sites) you will see that, beyond the ugly behavior of
the missionaries, there are a good number of seemingly LDS members treating it
as though it was minor or nothing at all AND recounting similar things they did
and witnessed others doing on their missions. In the comment to Marc
Bohn's entry entitled "Missionary Photos" on Times & Seasons
respondents referred to the photos they have of their own missions.
You may not like to think that there is a significant disrespect for other religious groups within the LDS but there clearly is. And you don't have to go far or scratch deep to see it. Meanwhile, blaming Darren for it won't change that. And neither will lacking the humility to see it and address it.
You may not like to think that there is a significant disrespect for other religious groups within the LDS but there clearly is. And you don't have to go far or scratch deep to see it. Meanwhile, blaming Darren for it won't change that. And neither will lacking the humility to see it and address it.
Humble Follower | 9:43 a.m. March 16, 2008
I grew up in a small town in California. Seventy percent of the population were
L.D.S., in one form or another. Anytime members broke laws the headlines of the
paper read, "MORMONS DID", always on the front page. Any one from
another faith do the same thing, it was never said.
High Standards, Do unto others as they would do unto you, Hate or just plain youthful STUPID. People make mistakes. Every action has either a positive reaction or a negative reaction. If people want the affects of Christ's Atonement on themselves, they must make wrongs right to the fullest.
This same kind of stuff is happening with the people who are running for President of the United States. Wars have and are being fought, in the name of religion. Wrongs do not make things right. Respect, brotherly love and hate are all taught. We do not come here knowing these attitudes. They are learned from other humans. Christ taught, "Love one another as I have loved you".
High Standards, Do unto others as they would do unto you, Hate or just plain youthful STUPID. People make mistakes. Every action has either a positive reaction or a negative reaction. If people want the affects of Christ's Atonement on themselves, they must make wrongs right to the fullest.
This same kind of stuff is happening with the people who are running for President of the United States. Wars have and are being fought, in the name of religion. Wrongs do not make things right. Respect, brotherly love and hate are all taught. We do not come here knowing these attitudes. They are learned from other humans. Christ taught, "Love one another as I have loved you".
Newman | 11:05 a.m. March 16, 2008
There is little doubt that these young men deserve to be critisized for their
behavior. If it is found that they vandelized the statue, then they and the
Church must take responsibility for making it right. The men should face
crimminal charges, and the Church must pay to have the damage made whole.
In 49 years as a member of the church, I have never seen any liturature or heard any talks whose purpose was to attack the beliefs of any other church. 99% of the young people that serve missions do so in a spirit of love provide an opportunity for others to accept the gospel. It is true, that not all of these men are gospel scholars. They act as a conduit for the Holy Ghost to touch people and to try and add value to lives.
The gospel is not alway logical, sometimes it defys logic.
In 49 years as a member of the church, I have never seen any liturature or heard any talks whose purpose was to attack the beliefs of any other church. 99% of the young people that serve missions do so in a spirit of love provide an opportunity for others to accept the gospel. It is true, that not all of these men are gospel scholars. They act as a conduit for the Holy Ghost to touch people and to try and add value to lives.
The gospel is not alway logical, sometimes it defys logic.
a grandma | 12:21 p.m. March 16, 2008
I could limit my comment to the lack of respect these young men showed for the
Catholic Church and members. But LDS members should notice that many responces
are also coming from others who have witnessed other types of disrespect.
Hopefully each person (LDS, Catholic, other) who wants to comment will think carefully.... are we showing respect now? No one wants to read a critism of the things we hold dear.
Hopefully each person (LDS, Catholic, other) who wants to comment will think carefully.... are we showing respect now? No one wants to read a critism of the things we hold dear.
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These Elders should be kicked out of serving in the church, punished by civil authorities, and pay restitution.
Then - and more importantly - they should recognize that they are sinners, as are we all, and they should repent and dedicate themselves to a life lived according to God's Word.
Maybe someday, when they grow up, they could use this as a testimony - a warning - of how "not" to live life.