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LDS Church apologizes to Catholics
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Sparks | 11:34 p.m. March 11, 2008
Ladies and gentlemen, I present you: the most apologetic era in the history of
our nation. What a great time to be alive. A woman (a woman!) gets suspended
from her job of which she's fabulous for making a statement that was
actually extremely flattering to the "offended" party. A global
organization feels compelled to make a huge official statement based on the
immature and relatively harmless actions of 3 very insignificant members. Not
harmless, you say? How did this happen 2 years ago and we're just now
finding out? How is it until a group or even a single person makes a complaint
everything seems fine? An era of lawsuits and it's response, where
everything any semi-significant organization does must be backed up legally to
prevent future said lawsuits. Our society has a new god: the god of tolerance.
Tolerance (or the fear of its opposite) governs what people say, how they act
and who they associate with before any other moral.
For the mere mention of excommunication for this, go read a book or something. You seriously need to get a life. Wow. Stupid? Yes. Immature, thoughtless? Certainly. Unforgivable? Are you serious? Please tell me you're not.
For the mere mention of excommunication for this, go read a book or something. You seriously need to get a life. Wow. Stupid? Yes. Immature, thoughtless? Certainly. Unforgivable? Are you serious? Please tell me you're not.
Anonymous | 11:53 p.m. March 11, 2008
To proper punishment and LDS Navy Vet and others:
I am appalled and shocked but what you all suggest.
None or you seem like true deciples of Christ or followers.
What would Jesus do?
It's pretty clear what he did.
Would Jesus place more importance on a statue than on people?
Did Jesus ever place value on things?
Or was saving souls more important?
There may be greater wisdom behind not creating graven images than on first glance.
Value and importance should never be given to things.
People ask what would happen if it happened to statues mormons have.
Well it has happened before at Byu, in salt lake, many chapels, they fix them or clean them or have done what is ever necessary.
But since they don't worship them it is not that serious religeously. It is more or prperty that must be repaired.
To the perpetrators they have forgiven them. what the law has done to them I don't know.
I am appalled and shocked but what you all suggest.
None or you seem like true deciples of Christ or followers.
What would Jesus do?
It's pretty clear what he did.
Would Jesus place more importance on a statue than on people?
Did Jesus ever place value on things?
Or was saving souls more important?
There may be greater wisdom behind not creating graven images than on first glance.
Value and importance should never be given to things.
People ask what would happen if it happened to statues mormons have.
Well it has happened before at Byu, in salt lake, many chapels, they fix them or clean them or have done what is ever necessary.
But since they don't worship them it is not that serious religeously. It is more or prperty that must be repaired.
To the perpetrators they have forgiven them. what the law has done to them I don't know.
Comments continue below
Shel | 12:11 a.m. March 12, 2008
Darren B....Get a grip!!!!!!
Helen, Australia | 12:26 a.m. March 12, 2008
I am not trying to excuse anything those 'Mormon Missionaries' did but
it annoys me that people can jump on their bandwagon and tear into the
'mormon church' and its people.
Like the Pharisees and Saducees who could not accept Jesus, some bitter twisted people of today are no different. They fail to see the 902 houses built; 15 schools built; a number of hospitals built/re-built and equipped; doctors nurses and teachers trained; fishing boats supplied and truckloads of fishing nets provided in Indonesia after the tsunami, to name just a few things, along with over $1,000,000,000USD given in humanitarian aid in the ten years 1995-2005. Was that aid given to members of the 'mormon' church? No! it was given freely to others of all different faiths and beliefs.
Perhaps one day when any of you faultfinding, whinging critical people are on the receiving end of the good that the 'mormon' church does after tornadoes, hurricanes, volcanoes, earthquakes, floods etc then let's hope you can be decent enough to recognise the untold good the 'mormon' church does. Many 'mormon' missionaries have helped in untold saituations such as those mentioned.
Like the Pharisees and Saducees who could not accept Jesus, some bitter twisted people of today are no different. They fail to see the 902 houses built; 15 schools built; a number of hospitals built/re-built and equipped; doctors nurses and teachers trained; fishing boats supplied and truckloads of fishing nets provided in Indonesia after the tsunami, to name just a few things, along with over $1,000,000,000USD given in humanitarian aid in the ten years 1995-2005. Was that aid given to members of the 'mormon' church? No! it was given freely to others of all different faiths and beliefs.
Perhaps one day when any of you faultfinding, whinging critical people are on the receiving end of the good that the 'mormon' church does after tornadoes, hurricanes, volcanoes, earthquakes, floods etc then let's hope you can be decent enough to recognise the untold good the 'mormon' church does. Many 'mormon' missionaries have helped in untold saituations such as those mentioned.
Overblown! | 1:23 a.m. March 12, 2008
These catholic churches are usually open for any and all to visit and take
pictures. I see no "vandalism" in these pictures, only 19-20 year old
kids taking pictures of a cool chapel and statue head that they thought were
funny at the time and although in bad taste for some, I doubt they intended to
offend anyone (I also seriously doubt the missionary broke the head off that
statue!) Why is everyone making this into an international incident? These were
19 year old kids trying to take memorable pictures that got a little out of
control. GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK and GET OVER IT! This world has become way
too Politically Correct! Far worse is done to LDS Chapels weekly by those of
other faiths and we don't call it the end of the world or even publicize
it!
Hey, Relax a bit Helen!!! | 2:37 a.m. March 12, 2008
Take another dose of whatever it is your on and settle down!!
Realistic | 2:44 a.m. March 12, 2008
Unfortunately, there are always the minority of LDS missionaries who do not live
up to the high standards expected of them by the Church. From my experience they
generally tend to be Americans. The LDS Church has taken the correct steps to
try and put this right and all credit to them. As for the Anti-Mormons jumping
on the band wagon again and 'having a go' perhaps they need to take a
good long look at their own lives before judging others...what hypocrites!
Non-Mormon | 3:23 a.m. March 12, 2008
Oh good grief people! Lighten up! 19 year old boys of every religion are often
full of themselves, short on brains and long on stupid stunts.
Lessons need to be learned by silly boys, the offended Parishs need to be made reasonably satisfied and the rest of us do not need to make a federal case out of common 19 year old idiocy.
Some of you have forgotten what it is to be young and....... well......stupid.
Lessons need to be learned by silly boys, the offended Parishs need to be made reasonably satisfied and the rest of us do not need to make a federal case out of common 19 year old idiocy.
Some of you have forgotten what it is to be young and....... well......stupid.
Betsy | 3:31 a.m. March 12, 2008
What was done was disrespectful to another faith. Nineteen is old enough to
know.
concerned | 4:10 a.m. March 12, 2008
It's sad to see how some people can be filled with so much hate...darren b.
Obviously you were just waiting for a chance to release your biased thoughts
about the LDS faith and what you think we believe. What happened is inexcusable
and it sucks but everyone has to face the consequences of their actions. What
the missionaries did was wrong and really disrespectful. Everybody makes dumb
choices. Let's just hope that the punishment and embarassment will be
enough to help these elders grow up.
Alan | 6:58 a.m. March 12, 2008
Darren B:
Catholics and Mormons have been very good friends for many years. As far as most Mormons and Catholics go, they respect each other (if not entirely accepting each others' doctrines) and have cooperated as individuals and as churches on many efforts.
When you say Mormons bad-mouth the Catholic church, you make the same type of blanket statement you accuse Mormons of making about Catholics. The truth from my experience is I've never heard Mormons bad-mouth Catholics ... not in private, and not from the pulpit. The church takes issue with some "mainstream" Christian teachings, that's true (they're not just Catholic doctrines), and Catholics argue against ours. They recognize most Christian baptisms, but not LDS ones. And that's just fine. It doesn't get personal. President Monson has been a close friend of the Catholic church, and has been a frequent visitor to the Cathedral of the Madeline for many, many years. Your accusations against Mormons don't carry any weight, and there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
The LDS church is genuinely embarrassed by these missionaries' behavior. The response has been public, humble and appropriate. YOUR response, Darren, has been venomous, divisive, and dishonest.
Catholics and Mormons have been very good friends for many years. As far as most Mormons and Catholics go, they respect each other (if not entirely accepting each others' doctrines) and have cooperated as individuals and as churches on many efforts.
When you say Mormons bad-mouth the Catholic church, you make the same type of blanket statement you accuse Mormons of making about Catholics. The truth from my experience is I've never heard Mormons bad-mouth Catholics ... not in private, and not from the pulpit. The church takes issue with some "mainstream" Christian teachings, that's true (they're not just Catholic doctrines), and Catholics argue against ours. They recognize most Christian baptisms, but not LDS ones. And that's just fine. It doesn't get personal. President Monson has been a close friend of the Catholic church, and has been a frequent visitor to the Cathedral of the Madeline for many, many years. Your accusations against Mormons don't carry any weight, and there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
The LDS church is genuinely embarrassed by these missionaries' behavior. The response has been public, humble and appropriate. YOUR response, Darren, has been venomous, divisive, and dishonest.
john b | 7:06 a.m. March 12, 2008
Well I thought that was on topic dont missionarys
still go out in pairs ? if so their should have been four there. it is A sad time when young people
do something like this but if you look around you will see a lot more good than bad out of most of todays youth,I'am sorry it happened but lets let the perps and the courts settle it after they find out for sure what the young men did or didn't do
still go out in pairs ? if so their should have been four there. it is A sad time when young people
do something like this but if you look around you will see a lot more good than bad out of most of todays youth,I'am sorry it happened but lets let the perps and the courts settle it after they find out for sure what the young men did or didn't do
To All | 10:19 a.m. March 12, 2008
Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but believe it or not, missionaries are not
perfect little angels like some people desperately want to believe.
Missionaries are still 19-20 year old KIDS who are still maturing, many of whom
have not even attended college yet. Many want to be doing the work, some
don't and went because of peer pressure. Just the way it is people.
Nobody got hurt, no lives were ruined (except for the Elder who was sent home),
it's time to move on people. Apologies have been made and the Elders
disciplined, this is the least of the world's problems right now.
This story didn't even make a ripple in the water here in Colorado where it happened for goodness sakes. Completely forgotten here except for a small blurb in the Rocky Mountain News. It's only the self-righteous members of the Church calling for their heads ("Unforgivable?" give me a break) and the venomous, hatred spewing anti-LDS folks who are still pushing this story.
In closing I ask you "How did you act when you were 19-20 years of age? Were you a model citizen at the peak of their maturity?" Didn't think so.
This story didn't even make a ripple in the water here in Colorado where it happened for goodness sakes. Completely forgotten here except for a small blurb in the Rocky Mountain News. It's only the self-righteous members of the Church calling for their heads ("Unforgivable?" give me a break) and the venomous, hatred spewing anti-LDS folks who are still pushing this story.
In closing I ask you "How did you act when you were 19-20 years of age? Were you a model citizen at the peak of their maturity?" Didn't think so.
desertrose | 10:20 a.m. March 12, 2008
What kind of way do you expect these young missionaries to behave when the
L.D.S. Church teaches that the Catholic church is the " whore of all the
earth"?
Jarad | 10:36 a.m. March 12, 2008
It is true that these were young, 19-20 year old boys. Perhaps they were
immature. But, can we in good conscience not expect that they face the
consequences of their actions. Do I think they are evil because of what they
did? No. Do I think they were stupid? Yes. Sometimes there must be
consequences for stupid. It's one way we, as a society, make sure people
learn the importance of appropriate behavior when it involves certain levels of
misconduct. It is unlikely that they are going to go to prison for a long time.
It is more likely that they will get some community service and pay some fines.
Stunned! | 11:02 a.m. March 12, 2008
I'm flabbergasted at the arrogance displayed on this board. I cannot
comprehend how so many of you can dismiss this incident as merely property
damage that can be repaired, or justify the actions because you yourselves have
been victims of religious bigotry. You have completely missed the point. Yes,
statues can be repaired, but the antics of these missionaries who are held to a
higher standard have deeply hurt the people of Sangre de Cristo. The beliefs
that they hold sacred have been desecrated. Religious bigotry in any form is
reprehensible. I'm not LDS, but I hold your Church in high regard for its
charitable commitment to relieve human suffering around the world. I am
appalled any time I hear that LDS people are violently accosted on their way to
worship at Temple Square. I applaud Church leaders in the way they have handled
this incident. They have apologized profusely and declared the actions
inexcusable. Restitution will be made and the healing can begin. How is it
that so many of you who are LDS can speak so arrogantly in direct contrast to
your leaders? I am embarrassed to call many of you my brothers and sisters in
Christ.
Darren B. | 11:07 a.m. March 12, 2008
Listen all you that have responded to my now famous post:
Of course I am right, Can't I look at any 2 or 3 of the 60,000 or so missionaries and make an accurate judgement about 12,000,000 or 13,000,000 million people?
Doesn't my experience translate accurately into understanding what goes on in 5,000 churches and 1,000's of seminary buildings?
Do you really expect me to believe that there are good people that are "Mormons"?
Come on didn't you see what those 3 missionaries did, I mean that outweighs anything.
Seriously though, I have spend a lot of good time on anti mormon sites learning wisdom and truth, do you just expect me to disregard this valuable, trustworthy material that seeks to do so much good? I mean it is making me a better person, I am really learning to hate and mock and judge effectively. I plan on propagating what I have learned so I can make the world a kindler more peaceful place. A place where we accept people, of course, only after a rigorous investigation into everything the lowliest of their kind has done and then assuming everyone else is the same. This is the way!
Of course I am right, Can't I look at any 2 or 3 of the 60,000 or so missionaries and make an accurate judgement about 12,000,000 or 13,000,000 million people?
Doesn't my experience translate accurately into understanding what goes on in 5,000 churches and 1,000's of seminary buildings?
Do you really expect me to believe that there are good people that are "Mormons"?
Come on didn't you see what those 3 missionaries did, I mean that outweighs anything.
Seriously though, I have spend a lot of good time on anti mormon sites learning wisdom and truth, do you just expect me to disregard this valuable, trustworthy material that seeks to do so much good? I mean it is making me a better person, I am really learning to hate and mock and judge effectively. I plan on propagating what I have learned so I can make the world a kindler more peaceful place. A place where we accept people, of course, only after a rigorous investigation into everything the lowliest of their kind has done and then assuming everyone else is the same. This is the way!
Elisabeth | 11:10 a.m. March 12, 2008
I think this is a good opportunity to examine how such disrespect has been
learned. I think we all have an obligation to watch what we say with regard to
others, because our kids are listening. These kids obviously have been raised
with a sense of their own superiority and self-righteousness and the irrelevance
of others. Im sure that is not the intention of church leaders and parents, but
when you you make off handed remarks about other religions and races, kids grow
up as basically, bigots. Mormons and non-mormons alike.
Dear Mr stunned | 11:12 a.m. March 12, 2008
Find me one church going LDS person or otherwise who would not recommend a
thorough harsh punishment for these missionaries?
believe you me! you are not as "stunned" as we are!
believe you me! you are not as "stunned" as we are!
Reason | 11:15 a.m. March 12, 2008
There must be some middle ground between:
"put them in prison for life, and put their families in prison for life as well!"
and
It's just boys being boys.
I think most of us,LDS or not are trying to find that middle ground. Do not misunderstand that. We do not "dismiss" or "downplay" the actions. Reason, just reason.
"put them in prison for life, and put their families in prison for life as well!"
and
It's just boys being boys.
I think most of us,LDS or not are trying to find that middle ground. Do not misunderstand that. We do not "dismiss" or "downplay" the actions. Reason, just reason.
Reading the same thing | 11:19 a.m. March 12, 2008
Are we not reading the same words?
The way I see it, if these missionaries were to face a jury of their own members, based on what I see, they would be in for a severe punishment and great consequences.
I don't detect any less displeasure among LDS people-thats how I read and understand the posts anyway.
The way I see it, if these missionaries were to face a jury of their own members, based on what I see, they would be in for a severe punishment and great consequences.
I don't detect any less displeasure among LDS people-thats how I read and understand the posts anyway.
I'm stundded too | 11:22 a.m. March 12, 2008
Listen I'm stunned too...
Let me, a return missionary, active LDS choose the punishment. You would be satisfied-trust me!
It would go on forever though.
Let me, a return missionary, active LDS choose the punishment. You would be satisfied-trust me!
It would go on forever though.
took a break | 11:26 a.m. March 12, 2008
I took a break from this article, looked around. I found I world goin on.
I had the chance to help someone in need. It was cool.
I had the chance to help someone in need. It was cool.
Relocated Southerner | 11:47 a.m. March 12, 2008
Disappointed I may be, but stunned I'm not. There are good and bad among
all segments of society and in all religions. This includes ours and also,
sadly, our missionaries. I do think these young men probably really had no clue
that they were being so stupid at the time and probably just thought it was
comical, but that in no way excuses their disrespectful behavior toward the
Catholic Church.
I was thinking yesterday how honored I was when the Cathedral of the Madeleine rang their church bells as President Hinckley's funeral procession passed. What a great gesture of friendship and good will they displayed for not only President Hinckley, but for all Latter-day Saints, as well. It saddens me that this one foolish act by these immature young men may have set back our good relationship with our kind Catholic neighbors.
My apologies to friends of all faiths who have been insulted by this childish, immature behavior.
I was thinking yesterday how honored I was when the Cathedral of the Madeleine rang their church bells as President Hinckley's funeral procession passed. What a great gesture of friendship and good will they displayed for not only President Hinckley, but for all Latter-day Saints, as well. It saddens me that this one foolish act by these immature young men may have set back our good relationship with our kind Catholic neighbors.
My apologies to friends of all faiths who have been insulted by this childish, immature behavior.
orion | 11:52 a.m. March 12, 2008
So why did it take the Mormon Church so long to apologize? Why didn't it
come when the event occurred? Why did they wait to get "caught"?
When the event occurred? | 12:00 p.m. March 12, 2008
They didn't know about it.
Stunned! | 12:09 p.m. March 12, 2008
Thank you, Reason (11:15).
There IS a middle ground. And I have every confidence that LDS Church leaders will continue to handle this incident in a balanced and appropriate manner.
There IS a middle ground. And I have every confidence that LDS Church leaders will continue to handle this incident in a balanced and appropriate manner.
Just me and my thoughts | 12:15 p.m. March 12, 2008
Fact is none of us can or should judge them for what happened. We can judge the
situation, and know that it's best not to do these things, but as for the
three kids... They chose to do something and every choice has it's
consequenses. Sadly theirs is going to affect many more people than themselves
only. Depending on whether charges are pressed, it could be tough for them. I do
know that God's judgement will be just and perfect. The church will
discipline in a manner that will help them learn, if willing. I hope we can all
reject the sin/error, and not the sinner. I hope these boys learn from their
mistakes, and progress just as we would hope to for ourselves. As for the
arguemental comments on religion: Let's all just follow Christ's
example in all we do, whatever the circumstance presented and I know from
experience that THAT is what makes us happy and united as Christians. While
we're doing that, we can be thankful for a living God, His Son, and the
blessing of hearing His words through modern prophets. I hope the best for ALL,
even the boys. (Moses 1:39)
Chastity | 1:07 p.m. March 12, 2008
This is what happens when a religion believes they are the ONLY religion. How
can these young men realize the severity of mocking the Roman Catholic religion,
when they they are continually praying for them to "CTR"? You know,
the only right.
rcr | 1:06 p.m. March 12, 2008
What the missionaries did is wrong. What the LDS church is doing is right.
Some posted comments are intelligent, some are absurd. I especially appreciate
the simple truth expressed by "Just Ed." Thank you.
WOW | 1:10 p.m. March 12, 2008
So many defending these BOYS, yet if the tables were turned we would be
witnessing Armagedon
The Real Darren B. | 1:19 p.m. March 12, 2008
Obviously, the post from Darren B. | 11:07 a.m. was not me. Please forgive the
idiot impersonator.
The REAL Darren B.
The REAL Darren B.
Pinning names on others | 1:24 p.m. March 12, 2008
There seems to be too many judgmental people in all religions. I think that
these missionaries need to come forth as adults and tell their side of the
story.
I hate how some people target someone and decide they have the right to pin a name on another person who doesn�t believe the same way as they do. Too many people even in the L D S church have nothing better to do than to sit around and find fault and pin names on someone who is inactive or a nonmember. I don�t know if all religions are this way or not but if they are I want nothing to do with any of them. It is an extremely evil practice in my opinion and nothing but evil GOSSIP!!
I hate how some people target someone and decide they have the right to pin a name on another person who doesn�t believe the same way as they do. Too many people even in the L D S church have nothing better to do than to sit around and find fault and pin names on someone who is inactive or a nonmember. I don�t know if all religions are this way or not but if they are I want nothing to do with any of them. It is an extremely evil practice in my opinion and nothing but evil GOSSIP!!
Relocated Southerner | 1:30 p.m. March 12, 2008
Chastity --
Several religions teach/believe they are the ONLY true religion, including the Catholics (at least the ones I grew up with in the South). This is what happens when you have foolish young men who probably should have been doing work that day instead of goofing off. And what they did is light compared to what a lot of other young people do at that age. It doesn't mean it was okay; it's just that it's less damaging than what a lot of other foolish young people in that age category do. Yes, feelings were hurt and the young men were wrong, but no one died or was physically injured and no irreparable harm was done. I have no doubt the young men will be disciplined by the Church, and I don't think they will ever forget this one foolish act either. Hopefully, they have grown from it and will never repeat anything like it. Isn't that all any of us can hope for when we have made stupid mistakes, too? And we can also hope that others will forgive us, as well. I can't think of anyone who has posted on this who is perfect, can you?
Several religions teach/believe they are the ONLY true religion, including the Catholics (at least the ones I grew up with in the South). This is what happens when you have foolish young men who probably should have been doing work that day instead of goofing off. And what they did is light compared to what a lot of other young people do at that age. It doesn't mean it was okay; it's just that it's less damaging than what a lot of other foolish young people in that age category do. Yes, feelings were hurt and the young men were wrong, but no one died or was physically injured and no irreparable harm was done. I have no doubt the young men will be disciplined by the Church, and I don't think they will ever forget this one foolish act either. Hopefully, they have grown from it and will never repeat anything like it. Isn't that all any of us can hope for when we have made stupid mistakes, too? And we can also hope that others will forgive us, as well. I can't think of anyone who has posted on this who is perfect, can you?
It's too bad, but | 1:38 p.m. March 12, 2008
This is so far out of proportion that it is a joke. Did they even break the
statue, I haven't heard if that is true or not. The fact that no one knew
that the head had been off of the statue means that it could have been off
before. The church should give them whatever money they want and then next time
the catholic church wants money to restore a church, the LDS church should just
give them a copy of the canceled check provided by for the statue. Or, the LDS
should send copies of the checks for the millions of dollars that the LDS church
has already given the catholic church along with the check that the catholic
church wants now and say if you really feel that you need this check then cash
it. It appears that no physical damage was done and the church and one
missionary has apologized to go any further shows a true lack of religion.
BD | 1:50 p.m. March 12, 2008
As an LDS missionary who served in a Catholic country, I've got to shake my
head at those who believe these three ought to be let off lightly. If some
knucklehead tried this in an LDS church, we'd be appalled, of course. Or
even in a temple. These three have got to learn that what they did was wrong, in
both a legal and spiritual sense.
Travis | 2:02 p.m. March 12, 2008
I just want to add my voice to the other Mormons who find the behavior of these
missionaries reprehensible. I'm sorry. Missionaries should love, serve,
and respect the members of the communities in which they are guests.
As a former missionary, I can attest that this is what the church strives to train its missionaries to do.
As a former missionary, I can attest that this is what the church strives to train its missionaries to do.
Too much pride & arrogance! | 2:17 p.m. March 12, 2008
To all the great and wonderful judges on here. First of all were you there at
the crime scene--If even there was a crime scene? May I ask each of you holier
than wonderful's, if you have ever done something that was ignorant,
arrogant, silly or just plain stupid and thoughtless? If you haven't then
why haven't you been translated to become some kind of a exulted GOD as of
yet? This whole blog is quite pathetic how you people (LDS) set around and
gang-up on even your own church members. Don't you people have anything
better to do than to pride yourselves? Geezers! too sad that we are not all so
perfect and wonderful...I'm certainly not! Perhaps you would as well like
to be praised for your wonderful thoughts on here. Well, none are coming from
me!
wondering in print | 2:54 p.m. March 12, 2008
why is everyone so surprised?
Both sides of the story | 3:22 p.m. March 12, 2008
We've heard one side of the story. I'd like to hear what actually
happened; from the young men involved.
K Jones | 3:47 p.m. March 12, 2008
Wow! Talk about over reaction. So you are downtown and you see some kids
making fun of one of the many statues that are down there. Who cares? Are we
not allowed to act and think as we please as long as we do no damage? I believe
so. It is called the USA. Since when is making fun of stuff a crime. I have
seen people making fun of statues all over the place. I don't chase them
down and turn them into the police for being stupid.
If they vandalized the statue, then that is different, they should pay for it according to whatever the vandal laws are. How bad was it. No one even noticed anything was wrong until the photos came out(over a year and a half).
If they vandalized the statue, then that is different, they should pay for it according to whatever the vandal laws are. How bad was it. No one even noticed anything was wrong until the photos came out(over a year and a half).
Jon B. Holbrook | 3:48 p.m. March 12, 2008
I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The action of
these three missionaries is inexcusable! I hope and pray the LDS Church, the
Catholic Church and the civil authorities can work out a solution that is
amendable to all parties. The LDS Church and its members have been victims of
hate-crimes and persecution. No member of The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints should be guilty of committing the same acts. The missionaries
need to be held accountable and restitution made to the agrieved parties. This
will set back LDS Church relations and missionary efforts for years to come,
especially in the San Luis area of Colorado. Satan couldn't be happier. It
is too bad that the missionaries forgot that they were representatives of Jesus
Christ and instead, became servants of Satan. Thank-You
wallofvoodoo | 4:33 p.m. March 12, 2008
Where in Provo is this taught? I was taught to ALWAYS show reverence for others
religion. What these missionaries did was wrong. It was not the unforgivable
sin. If the shoe was on the other foot, I would be upset and unhappy. Would I
forgive? Yes.
Appalled | 4:50 p.m. March 12, 2008
I first saw this appalling story in the Denver Post on Sunday and then saw it
picked up by the Salt Lake papers. I had no doubt but that the Church would
handle this in a measured way, that there would be apologies, restitution,
Church discipline, and probably a service project. If even Chris Buttars can
come before the people of Calvary Baptist Church, then the young men involved
ought to appear before the parishioners of the Sangre de Cristo Church to
apologize in person. We can be glad that Christian doctrine includes the
principles of repentance, confession, and forgiveness.
Bill Patterson | 5:04 p.m. March 12, 2008
Wow! This has stirred up some real passion among Mormons.
As a Catholic and a teacher of comparative religion at a Church-sponsored College, I am somewhat familiar with the LDS Church. From my perspective, I do not think many of you appreciate how your Church's doctrine comes across to us. I have read James E. Talmage's "The Great Apostasy," and I think the comments by Darren B. are correct.
The disrespect these missionaries showed seems to be grounded in a doctrinal anti-Catholic sentiment that is fundamental to your Church. Recognizing that fact is important because all the lip-service talking about showing respect for other religions will not influence behavior consistently so long as the doctrinal basis for disrespect exists.
I believe it was your Apostle Boyd K. Packer who said, "The study of the doctrines of the gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior.� (Ensign, Nov. 1986, 17).
Perhaps the doctrinal basis of the behavior of these missionaries needs to be examined more thoroughly.
As a Catholic and a teacher of comparative religion at a Church-sponsored College, I am somewhat familiar with the LDS Church. From my perspective, I do not think many of you appreciate how your Church's doctrine comes across to us. I have read James E. Talmage's "The Great Apostasy," and I think the comments by Darren B. are correct.
The disrespect these missionaries showed seems to be grounded in a doctrinal anti-Catholic sentiment that is fundamental to your Church. Recognizing that fact is important because all the lip-service talking about showing respect for other religions will not influence behavior consistently so long as the doctrinal basis for disrespect exists.
I believe it was your Apostle Boyd K. Packer who said, "The study of the doctrines of the gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior.� (Ensign, Nov. 1986, 17).
Perhaps the doctrinal basis of the behavior of these missionaries needs to be examined more thoroughly.
Kat | 5:44 p.m. March 12, 2008
Wow...there are some very bitter comments here. I have been a member of the LDS
church for 20 years and I have NEVER been taught to hate Catholics or that they
are bad or evil. I have many catholic friends and I hold them in high regard.
What the missionaries did was inexcusable. It is sad to think that they have
tainted people's opinions of missionaries. But they probably never even
thought of the effects their actions would have. I hope that they understand the
seriousness of what they have done. But I also hope that members from other
faiths or those that have left mine can look at this situation maturely and
objectively and forgive those who have been wrong.
What is the proper proportion? | 5:57 p.m. March 12, 2008
A lot of Saints here seem to think that Catholics and, in fact those of us who
are not Catholic but understand what a sacred space and common decency are
about, should get over this and forget about it.
An odd reaction from a group who spent a lot of energy trying to control what clothes non-Mormons wore when walking in the vicinity of the *exterior* of the LDS temple. Humility is not part of the LDS values? Too bad because you can't learn a lot about yourself and improve without it.
I realize what 3 out of control Elders did is not the same thing as what LDS people do when they go about the business of leading their lives. But the callous reaction of so many among you speaks volumes.
An odd reaction from a group who spent a lot of energy trying to control what clothes non-Mormons wore when walking in the vicinity of the *exterior* of the LDS temple. Humility is not part of the LDS values? Too bad because you can't learn a lot about yourself and improve without it.
I realize what 3 out of control Elders did is not the same thing as what LDS people do when they go about the business of leading their lives. But the callous reaction of so many among you speaks volumes.
Anonymous | 6:21 p.m. March 12, 2008
I am active LDS. I must humbly admit that there is some truth to what some
Catholics are commenting here. I can't count the numerous times I have sat
through Sunday School and Elders quorum lessons where the whole room has joined
in bad-mouthing the Catholic Church for its history (apostasy), sexual abuse of
children, and other things. They always end by testifying that the LDS Church is
true! as if the more corrupt and false the Catholic Church can be made out to
be, the more true our Church is! Quite frankly, it sickens me, and all the more
since this horrible incident with these missionaries. The bottom line: we must
stop bashing other religions in our meetings and homes. That is where these
missionaries learned it.
Bible Belt Missionary | 6:24 p.m. March 12, 2008
Fortunately, for us, most criminals are stupid, and that is what these Elders
were, criminals. Thank goodness, one, or all of them, were stupid enough to
post these pictures, and reveal the answer, as to who desecrated this sacred (I
believe any spot dedicated to the worship of God and Christ sacred) place of
worship.
I served my LDS mission in Texas, in the Bible belt, amongst our brothers and sisters of the Catholic faith, among others. And my mission was filled with many small, open, roadside Catholic chapels, filled with holy Catholic religious symbols of worship, where a weary traveler, who did not necessarily have to be Catholic, could pull to the side of the road, enter in, and pay their respects, or find a quiet place to pray. Never once did the thought cross my mind of desecrating one of these sacred places. I had, and still have a mutual respect for people and places of other religions.
I pray that the actions of the few do not blight the majority. I do hope these Elders, if they feel true sorrow, will eventually be forgiven, as one of Christ's central doctines was that of forgiveness.
I served my LDS mission in Texas, in the Bible belt, amongst our brothers and sisters of the Catholic faith, among others. And my mission was filled with many small, open, roadside Catholic chapels, filled with holy Catholic religious symbols of worship, where a weary traveler, who did not necessarily have to be Catholic, could pull to the side of the road, enter in, and pay their respects, or find a quiet place to pray. Never once did the thought cross my mind of desecrating one of these sacred places. I had, and still have a mutual respect for people and places of other religions.
I pray that the actions of the few do not blight the majority. I do hope these Elders, if they feel true sorrow, will eventually be forgiven, as one of Christ's central doctines was that of forgiveness.
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When things go wrong...when prophesies do not occur...when goals have not been meet...when truth, scripture or prophesies have not been revealed or fulfilled�what was the response?
It has always been the people�s fault....'where is your faith?'; 'where is your obedience?'
It never is anything that the leadership did...said...prophesied...failed at.. So what happened here?
Darren B. has said something, that we need to pay attention to. What has been the history and the attitude of the Church from the beginning. What had been taught, that resulted in Mormon families passing down unkind words in regards to the Catholic church? This isn't a one-time thing. I know of other missionaries who have been openly critical and unkind to non-members. It belongs to teachings that have been handed-down from the beginning of Mormonism. Whose teachings?�not the people, who strive to be faithful.