Deseret News | Parish angered by 3 LDS missionaries

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Parish angered by 3 LDS missionaries

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Casey | 2:05 p.m. March 10, 2008

This is pathetic! I have a son serving on a mission, and I would be horrified if I found out he participated in something like this. I thought we raised the bar??? Kids like this should not be out serving...obviously their hearts are not in the right place. They are sent to love and serve the people of the communities and countries they are assigned to, not mock and defile them. It's a very sad day.

RE: ds | 2:06 p.m. March 10, 2008

Or break the head off of a religious statue and cast that. Allegedly.

From the San luis Valley | 2:17 p.m. March 10, 2008

I am a member of a nearby community where this took place. I know of the work and sacrifice that took place to build the Stations of the Cross. There are many good people in outlying communities that are members of the LDS faith that are saddened by the event. I have personaly met everyone of the missionaries in the photos. They were foolish, and need to pay a price for what they did. In all of the time that I spent with them, I never saw this kind of behavior. We are so quick to judge before we know the whole truth. All religion is mocked by this event. it only gives fuel to those who oppose faith in our country. Let the law and God sort this one out.

Comments continue below

Re: Unfortunate | 2:21 p.m. March 10, 2008

There already is a paragraph in the white missionary handbook about not disrespecting sacred sites of other religions. That's part of the tragedy of this whole incident.

Jon B. Holbrook | 2:17 p.m. March 10, 2008

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has had very good relations with the Roman Catholic Church. It is a shame that three missionaries from the Lord's True and Living Church should be guilty of commiting an act of vandalism and sacrilege against another faith. These three missionaries need to be held accountable for their actions. They need to face penalties according to the laws of the land and appropriate LDS Church discipline. Restitution also needs to be made to the offended parties, both Catholic and Mormon. Thank-you

Now I want to say | 2:18 p.m. March 10, 2008

After reading most of these blogs..although not a member..I have hope ..much hope, while there are some who pass this off as growing up. It is in the context of that growing up that must be looked at. There were many a missionary that along that very same sacred journey died and to perform such an act gives no substantial strength to the ultimate message and that is one of Love for all! Now each of us that remain must pick up the yoke so to speak and show each other be we homeless, sinners, in mourning, spiritually destitute what we really believe. I hope these young men have an opportunity to really evaluate and read many of these messages from their community denouncing such acts. Why?, because my nephew gave his life when he was just a "boy" so that all religions would remain free in this great country. And there is the brother hood of many over in a foreign country laying their ultimate sacrifice down and so this type of thing just brings shame along with hurt to their selfless honor!Now you go on but don't ever forget what the price paid was!

Clark M. | 2:41 p.m. March 10, 2008

The best definition for youth is "dumb" because they do not have the experience of life to understand the depth of their idiocy and actions. The otherside of the coin is that someone did not take the time to teach them to respect other people's property. Religion is secondary, and should not be legally protected. Their property should be, and the trespassing, and damage should lead to criminal charges and public ridicule.

In most places 18 and 19 year olds are men, so their actions should be treated as such. We coddle our kids to much in my youthful opinion, and this will teach them a lesson on property respect.

RG in Denver | 2:36 p.m. March 10, 2008

This is pretty sickening. The Missionary Training Center absolutely should provide sensitivity training. LDS missionaries should be prepared to enter a world where the idiotic and insensitive pranks you pulled as a freshman in college don't fly.

Front page news in the Denver Post, and farther back in the Rocky Mountain News. It's unfortunate I have to spend today explaining to my co-workers (and Catholic in-laws) that this type of conduct is not a product of our doctrines.

A Very Common Problem | 2:50 p.m. March 10, 2008

Sadly, I have no doubt that this type of behavior is widespread. As a missionary, I was apalled by how often fellow missionaries mocked other faiths, especially that of the Catholic church.

This same sort of incident happened while I was on my LDS mission in Argentina. As a result of very disrespectful behavior, the Catholic church banned LDS missionaries from touring the Catholic Basilica in Lujan.

Fortunately, I was able to tour this beautiful building before this happened. I developed a greater understanding and respect for the Catholic faith. Unfortunately, while we were inside, some of my fellow mission buddies obnoxiously expresed how "stupid" the Virgin Mary was and referred to the religoius street vendors outside the building as "idiots."

I'll bet a new church policy comes out that discourages missionaries from visiting other churches. While this might help elminiate future embarassment, it would also deprive missionaries the opportunity to develop respect for the beliefs of others.

Part of the problem: we think our church is superior to all others, that the idea God is a spirit is ridiculous, that the Catholic Church is the great and abominable, that Evangelists pray really funny, that Satan heads other churches.

Kids are great | 3:00 p.m. March 10, 2008

You just can't count on them because ther is always someone in the group that does something stupid.

LEGAL RECOURSE | 3:07 p.m. March 10, 2008

I am curious, there are many here that are more than happy for justice to come to these Moron missionaries, ooops, I mean Mormon missionaries, by having the law takes its legal recourse upon them, which I feel would help to justify their very insulting, making of mockery, especially hateful behavior, which saddly began from Bruce R. McConkie's Mormon Doctrines in regards to the Catholics.

But I do want to know that, this legal recourse would also mean millions of dollars out of the LDS church's pocket, which I'm sure the church would not fight this, and settle long before it would even be considered as a legal issue, so is that OK with all of you Mormons out there, that the church fork out as a huge amount of money as part of the "repentance" process which the church has been dragged into?

wallyworld | 3:15 p.m. March 10, 2008

this is crazy, we as members have a hard time convincing the other Christian Chruchs that we are Christians. With stunts like this(if it's true)how can you blame them when they say were not. But on the other hand you have people form other Christian and non-Christian religions doing things that are un-Christian too.

Frank | 3:26 p.m. March 10, 2008

Sure they're young, and youth commit mistakes. Some more serious than others. It may not be that they weren't taught respect, its probably that they didnt listen. Regardless, paying for your mistakes is part of life, they need to be held accountable and they need to accept that. If they dont pay they dont learn.

Observer | 3:25 p.m. March 10, 2008

Isn't it interesting that the Deseret News headline on this story focuses on the parish (that they are angry), not on the missionaries (that they committed a crime)!

Re: LEGAL RECOURSE | 3:31 p.m. March 10, 2008

Ok, so you repair/replace the statue. It would be a good gesture to perform an act of service, such as offering to do some landscaping or helping with a humanitarian project. What other actionable damages are there? This is not a multi-million dollar case. Hurt feelings and feeling insulted are regrettable, I am not excusing the missionaries, who are in all likelyhood home now for several months or longer, but there are simply no substantual monetary damages here.

Father Gary Killen | 3:42 p.m. March 10, 2008

As a Catholic my respect for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has been greatly depleated!

larry | 3:46 p.m. March 10, 2008

Don't know all the details but sounds like these guys took a common practice to the extreme.

While on my mission we commonly laughed at and mocked other religious groups and their worship practices-- although we did it amongst ourselves for the most part. This was more common in regards to churches/ groups that were antagonistic towards us or just ones that were more prominent.

In a way, it was the abu graib (sp?) of our missionary service. We were rejected by the local faiths so we rejected them. To some degree it also reflected the arrogance we derived from being members of God's one true church and being the messengers of His one true Gospel.

Now I see the irony/tragedy of that behavior. But I think the attitude still exists. Even leadership in the church takes part in these faith-affirming jabs.

Lori | 3:48 p.m. March 10, 2008

Let's start with our 11th Article of faith shall we...
11 WE CLAIM the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
All missionaries need to have that drummed into their heads including my daughter who is in the MTC right now.
Now let's try Article of Faith 12...
12 WE BELIEVE in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
They did not sustain the law.
How about Article of Faith 13...
13 WE BELIEVE in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paulï¿½We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Ain't happening. They broke the law and they should face the music, including mandatory community service work for the parish. It's called repentance.

Respect | 3:56 p.m. March 10, 2008

Hopefully the entire body of work for any church can be looked at, not just the acts of a foolish few.

Jacob | 3:56 p.m. March 10, 2008

These missionaries should clearly be punished. I have many Catholic friends and I desire them to enjoy the exact same respect I desire. I am angered that these kids thought this was EVER okay.

Ryan Whaley | 3:52 p.m. March 10, 2008

I'm glad this was brought up. I perceive the average person here is mostly concerned that what these people did was not acting on behalf of mormonism in whole. If they ask for that, I'm more than happy to accept. However, I ask in return that the LDS people don't do the same to the rest of us non-mormons. For example, if some idiot gets drunk and runs over someone, see it as an act of a irresponsible idiot, not all people who drink responsibly. Also, please continue to apply this logic on all fronts, not just when it works for you. I constantly run into ideas of what kind of person LDS people think I am based on what some other non-lds person did.

against catholic principles | 3:53 p.m. March 10, 2008

As a catholic and aware of how LDS missionaries are trained (my own stepson and an RM once told me that "catholics worship idols") this sort of heinous behavior does not surprise me. When I tried to explain it is what the statue represents that is being worshipped - not clay, paint or stone. He just stared at me.
Perhaps catholics should take a lesson from Mormons and keep their places of worship under lock and key.
But that would be against the principles of The Catholic Church.

Jimmy | 4:05 p.m. March 10, 2008

The youth of the church are largely out of control. I've seen LDS missionaries here in Provo do stuff that would make you physcially ill and have seen and heard younger members of the church (BYU students) act in a manner that makes me ashamed to be a member of the same faith. Now that I've said that, I believe most of the fault lies with the parents, NOT THE CHURCH. It is our duty as parents to teach our children how to behave and live the Gospel.

E Harris | 4:06 p.m. March 10, 2008

What happened to "obeying, honoring and sustaining the law". How do they think there fellow missionaries are going to be welcomened/treated now? These young hooligans should be excommunicated.

Equal Punishment | 4:00 p.m. March 10, 2008

I wonder why outrage and apology was morphed into some sort of legal playground where the level of remorse is equated with a monetary value.
All religions are mocked. The internet is proof of that. Should we take recourse against those foolish people who make inflammatory comments on this very website? I think that before people make severe calls for recourse of these irresponsible boys we should ask of equal punishment is given to all who "sacrilege" any religion. Do members of there Parrish speak ill of other churches? Didn't some guy a while ago say, "let he who is without sin let them cast the first stone." Does that rule still stand or has it been replaced by the dogma of frivolous American lawsuits?

Karl Thomas | 4:01 p.m. March 10, 2008

What kind of moral thinking do they teach you Mormons? First these Missionaries (Official representatives of your Church) desecrate a sacred shrine, then many of the rest of you try to minimize it or excuse it by saying such things as "other religions are doing things that are unChristian, too!"

Unbelievable. No, really, I mean that literally. The Mormon faith us UNBELIEVABLE! Please keep it away from me!

A Utah Mom | 4:02 p.m. March 10, 2008

Now the truth is out. I am sick. This is the parrish of my childrens' great grandmother. I think this attitude is more pervasive than the LDS church will admit.

LJ | 4:05 p.m. March 10, 2008

Were they 19 or 20 yo stupid boys? Yes. Should they be punished for what they did? Definitley. Many of the above comments seem either too harsh or too easy for what has happened. The end result is that when you take on the role of a missionary you are no longer an individual. You are a person representing millions and you are ALWAYS being watched! Your actions, no matter how small or how big, represent the church as a whole! Your actions show the world what a good people we are. We had monthly zone conferences and weekly meetings to help us to understand that. A missionary must ALWAYS be a representative of the church, no matter if they are alone or among many. I pray that this does not increase hate, but gives an opportunity to learn how to work together with all religions. Hopefully this lesson will teach that it is not a "right of passage" to be stupid while on a mission.

Leslie | 4:14 p.m. March 10, 2008

1. These are not kids; they are between the legal ages of 19-21 or older. They are adults.

2. This is not an isolated incident. Mormon missionaries around the world mock other religions on a regular basis. More frequently than we would like to admit, this mockery also includes vandalism of some kind (e.g., stealing what appears to be a small item as a souvenir).

3. These behaviors and attitudes reflect the arrogance of the LDS Church. The disrespectful doctrines are canonized as part of their holy scripture. They believe everybody else is wrong, apostate, and corrupt, and that ONLY the LDS Church is the one, true Church on the face of the earth. That is disrespectful and insulting.

Treb | 4:22 p.m. March 10, 2008

What is it about an organization that instills so much superiority thinking in its people? Iï¿½ve heard missionaries boast "I have more authority and power in my little pinky than all the world leaders put together". Iï¿½ve been to Washington DC and overheard a group of Mormons say in the National Cathedral "this is going to make a really nice temple some day".

How can a group of people have such a high opinion of themselves and yet still feel persecuted when someone questions them about the accuracy of their version of history, or about some of their more peculiar doctrines.

I just donï¿½t get it.

anon. | 4:24 p.m. March 10, 2008

apparently they didn't break the statue, it was already broken when they took the pictures.

Immaturity | 4:33 p.m. March 10, 2008

Once again I am reminded of that old saying.
"If the Church wasn't true, the missionaries would have destroyed it along time ago".

I'm saddened that this sort of thing goes on. I would say though, and it certainly doesn't justify what they did, is the fact that for every incident like this there are thousands of acts of service being performed by these missionaries. With over 52,000 missionaries out world wide at any given time, I am thankful that they aren't in the news more frequently.

Ditto | 4:29 p.m. March 10, 2008

These three idiots deserve what is coming to them. They were on their mission, representing The Lord Jesus Christ himself, and they mocked something that was, and is, very dear to other people ...There is no excuse for their behavior, none, whatsoever.
And yes, I am LDS, and no, I do not "practice" self-righteousness, but these men should have known better, and I`m sure they did...They probably just thought they simply could get away with it.

Chuckles55 | 5:20 p.m. March 10, 2008

Where can I send a contribution to help pay for the damages?

Judge Not That Ye Be Not Judged | 5:28 p.m. March 10, 2008

Matt. 7: 3-5
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brotherï¿½s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brotherï¿½s eye.

Many Perfect Commenters | 5:30 p.m. March 10, 2008

John 8: 7
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

19 year olds can be stupid | 5:36 p.m. March 10, 2008

I was actually very fortunate to realize that I was too immature and did not have the testimony to serve at 19 years old, even though I was raised actively in the church.

I was married in the temple at 26, have a college degree (not from BYU), a beautiful family, and we are active in our ward and the immature actions of my youth represent no one but myself and my own stupidity.

I have always felt bad for not going on a mission, but after hearing some of these comments and stories of missionaries mocking other faiths, I think I am happy to wait to serve later with my wife.

The problem with sending out 19 year old kids, is that if you strip away all of the veneer, they are just 19 year old kids, and immaturity and stupidtity are the rule at that age, rather than the exception.

Sad thing is, these kids don't just represent their own immature and stupid selves, they represnt the Lord, and I think that is pretty heavy.

Christina | 5:44 p.m. March 10, 2008

I can't believe "ron" and anyone else who has done something like this. What if Jehovah's Witnesses came onto Temple Square and made fun of everything they saw, including statues of families, and then walked into the nearest chapel and started eating the bread in the cupboards and preaching from the pulpit.

Dispicable, and I'm not even mormon.

CH | 5:45 p.m. March 10, 2008

I am from the San Luis Valley and am deeply disappointed in these former missionaries. A chapel is in the process of being built in San Luis for the branch there and this may totally derail that branch. The former missionaries are gone and we, here, are left to try and clean up the mess and explain to our friends, neighbors, and co-workers that this is not how we feel about them or their religion. I pity the Mission President, our good Stake President, and the Branch President, who do not deserve to be put through this.

Bex | 5:47 p.m. March 10, 2008

From Wikipedia:
Hate crimes differ from conventional crime because they are not directed simply at an individual, but are meant to cause fear and intimidation in an entire group or class of people.

Hate crime can take many forms. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters.

Anonymous | 5:50 p.m. March 10, 2008

I am LDS. I love and support my church but honestly, the DN has this headline mistaken. The Parish is not angered at the missionaries. The "missionaries" OFFENDED/DISRESPECTEDD the Parish. Let's call things correctly.

Also, this happened in 2006. They found out what they did. The missionaries didn't come forward and apologize. I hope the LDS Church considers this when ruling whatever discipline action. A letter is not enough. They should step forward and apologize publicly. It's the least that they can do after mudding the name of the Church. Because that's what they did, they mud it.

RE: Sorry Because They Got Caugh | 5:50 p.m. March 10, 2008

"There is no question the acts of these young men are unacceptable but please take your hatered to another forum."

Mormons, are very good when it comes to redirecting the sin so as to clean themselves off as the righteous one and only people of God, or the victim, look at what they did to us, poor me attitude.

With your statement, who is the one that is full of hatred? This news report is written due to hatred, now you're refusing to accept that one of your own is full of hatred, and have an axe to grind.

So, when will you accept truth as it really is, not as the way Mormons always would like to see truth.

Truth hurts, and it makes Mormons like you angry when that truth hurts you.

GregM | 5:55 p.m. March 10, 2008

I was raised Eastern Orthodox Catholic. Converted to Mormonism at age 20. I was never mocked or critized as a EOC but have had plenty of it since joining the church. The restraint in our church to critizism of it is amazing. Yet, how can we overcome this hate if we contribute to it? I feel sorry for those people who were deeply offended by these actions and sorry for those young immature missionaries. Let those of us and them who is without sin, cast the first stone.

JUDGE YE........ | 5:57 p.m. March 10, 2008

I've noticed that those that posts scriptures on judgement seemed to be the ones that do when it's one of their own that makes them look bad.

But when it's not one of their own, then those scriptures don't apply in the slightest and judgment seemed to be in order, such as the gays and the alcohol users.

I see a certain hypocrisy that's very particularly self serving.

Evan | 6:10 p.m. March 10, 2008

What is the big deal here? It was a couple of immature kids having a goof. Geez if you want to look at real ignorance look at how these fine young men are treated on a daily basis while there serving the lord for the two years yet they stand strong and move the truth foward. This is only news because it is an attempt to make the church look bad, people will go to any legnth. It makes me sad that there are those who will not leave the LDS church alone at any cost.

Anonymous | 6:21 p.m. March 10, 2008

What idiots

David R VanLangeveld | 6:20 p.m. March 10, 2008

Evan, this was no persecution of the LDS Church, it was vandalism. All vandals should be prosucuted to the fullest extent of the law, regardless of religion. The fact that these were missionaries of a specfic chruch makes it worse. Now, as reported on KSL's 6:00 pm news, two of the missionaries had finished their missions when the photos were taken and the third has been dishonorably released. The LDS Church has turned the names of the missionaries over to local Colorado authorities.

Just Ed | 6:44 p.m. March 10, 2008

As a devout Catholic, I appreciate the heartfelt expressions of dismay on the part of many of the LDS posters here.

I hope and pray that a Christian resolution can be brought to this incident. Such a resolution might look like this: (1) The three young men should each stand before the shrine's parishioners on Sunday morning and apologize fully and sincerely for what they did. (2) They should make full restitution for damage caused to the statue. (3) The members of the parish should then, individually and collectively, FORGIVE THEM.

Not only would the missionaries learn a valuable lesson, so would the offended parishioners. And the world could see two Christian communities come together in a spirit of repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation.

What an opportunity to model peace and healing to a world that can always use more of it!

JimBobDandyMcFly | 6:46 p.m. March 10, 2008

casting stones
broken bones
immaturity
lack of sensitivity
restitution
repentance
forgiveness

Sorry, Nice Try | 6:46 p.m. March 10, 2008

THERE IS NOOO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT VANDELISM. As far as I see it is only taking some crazy pictures in the mountains at this tourist attraction. Way off base here and an attempt to discredit the fine 19-year olds God has called to serve the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

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