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Rallying against violence
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christy | 7:50 a.m. March 7, 2008
In response to Anonymous' comment, sometimes you have to pick a cause to
rally against. Illegal, immoral and bankrupting wars is a topic for another day.
No one is saying this is the only injustice that exists. This is simply an
effort to educate the public on one issue.
Anonymous | 8:02 a.m. March 7, 2008
Statistics such as these should be read with great skepticism. Most such data
are wildly exaggerated in order to garner attention or to stimulate change. I
recall hearing a counselor say that fifty percent of the people in that room
(probably a thousand people) had been victims of sexual abuse. WE all looked
around at all the people we knew and just knew that figure was absurd. It turns
out it was absurd, the guy just threw out a big number to get everyone's
attention.
I would stake my life on the fact that Utah's true rape figures are no where near what this group claims. Do your own research, poll people you know, dig up your own data--you will find reality is far, far from what single issue groups like these claim.
I would stake my life on the fact that Utah's true rape figures are no where near what this group claims. Do your own research, poll people you know, dig up your own data--you will find reality is far, far from what single issue groups like these claim.
Comments continue below
Todd | 8:12 a.m. March 7, 2008
Reminds me of claims that Superbowl Sunday was the most violent day af year
against women. Ofcoarse, stats did not back those claims up, not that NOW and
other organizations who made those claims were ever held accountable.
Anonymous | 8:20 a.m. March 7, 2008
War is the most violent act mankind as ever invented.
"Put away your swords."
"Beat your swords into ploughshares."
"Turn the other cheek."
"Love your enemies."
- From the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ
"Put away your swords."
"Beat your swords into ploughshares."
"Turn the other cheek."
"Love your enemies."
- From the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ
Anonymous | 8:17 a.m. March 7, 2008
Christy above, is far too political in her comment.
Just because the country is divided on The Bush Doctrine's war, does not mean the violent act of war itself should be swept under the carpet as she is suggesting in her political correctness.
Just because the country is divided on The Bush Doctrine's war, does not mean the violent act of war itself should be swept under the carpet as she is suggesting in her political correctness.
Anonymous | 8:23 a.m. March 7, 2008
Women live longer than men. If that's not gender inequity, what is?
Anonymous | 8:20 a.m. March 7, 2008
Hmm.. an unlikely place for a gender equity rally.
Don | 8:26 a.m. March 7, 2008
40 students? Must have been a slow news day. And this isn't news.
Complex Issue | 8:41 a.m. March 7, 2008
Anonymous 8:02 is right: There's alot more to this than just the standard
"men bad, women good" paradigm that most anti-rape advocates use.
Google "rape rates Utah US" and you'll find a wealth of interesting sources that show it's a rather complex issue. For example, did you know that South Salt Lake has the highest rape rate of any major city in Utah, and is roughly 10 times higher than Sandy's?
Why is that so?
Google "rape rates Utah US" and you'll find a wealth of interesting sources that show it's a rather complex issue. For example, did you know that South Salt Lake has the highest rape rate of any major city in Utah, and is roughly 10 times higher than Sandy's?
Why is that so?
Hatuletoh | 8:43 a.m. March 7, 2008
Only at BYU would a rally against sexual abuse of women be met with reactions
that included skepticism and outright hostility. Well, perhaps simliar
reactions might be expected from some students at Oral Roberts University, and
also from students at most Pakistani madrassas.
To Anonymous @ 8:02: You advise to take statistics with "a grain of salt". You then suggest that we "poll people we know" about the topic of sexual abuse. Finally, you assert that the anecdotal evidence we collect through informal conversations with friends and family about their history of sexual abuse will be the most reliable information from which to form opinions.
So, um, what year did YOU graduate from "the Y"?
To Anonymous @ 8:02: You advise to take statistics with "a grain of salt". You then suggest that we "poll people we know" about the topic of sexual abuse. Finally, you assert that the anecdotal evidence we collect through informal conversations with friends and family about their history of sexual abuse will be the most reliable information from which to form opinions.
So, um, what year did YOU graduate from "the Y"?
Non-believer | 8:51 a.m. March 7, 2008
I agree that stats can be biased and not always true. The TV ad that states
that 1 out of every child in Utah is addicted to alcohol is simply not true.
However, rape and domestic violence is a problem in Utah. That any student at
BYU would consider this a joke and make comments belongs at another university.
castthefirststone | 8:53 a.m. March 7, 2008
Hatuletoh: Well said!!!
Anonymous | 9:01 a.m. March 7, 2008
Sure, as long as you can believe that statistics are misused, you can ignore the
problem. The reality is, abuse does happen and lives are damaged and destroyed.
It's war on a personal scale. It happens right here in Utah.
Ignoring it does not stop it or make it go away. Sometimes bringing the issue out in the open allows its victims to gain affirmation that they can overcome the pain and shame, and seek healing.
Ignoring it does not stop it or make it go away. Sometimes bringing the issue out in the open allows its victims to gain affirmation that they can overcome the pain and shame, and seek healing.
So in other words.... | 9:07 a.m. March 7, 2008
Fact's don't matter, it's the feelings that count!
Wimp-out! | 9:10 a.m. March 7, 2008
Utah needs to clean up it's act and do some house cleaning around and about
this town. This state has been on the decline for the past 20 years.
With all the illegals, crime and drug trafficking that is being introduced to our children things are looking quite bleak! The cleanup needs to start first with the government. I think it well past time for some good to happen, and we need are desperate to get some real men running this country again. This wimpy stuff is getting to me a nuisance!
With all the illegals, crime and drug trafficking that is being introduced to our children things are looking quite bleak! The cleanup needs to start first with the government. I think it well past time for some good to happen, and we need are desperate to get some real men running this country again. This wimpy stuff is getting to me a nuisance!
X BYU Fan | 9:27 a.m. March 7, 2008
To Anonymous 8:02
One rape is one too many! One domestic violence attack is one to many!
One rape is one too many! One domestic violence attack is one to many!
Hatuletoh | 9:34 a.m. March 7, 2008
And furthermore, what difference does it make if the statistics are inflated?
Please describe the level of sexual abuse against women with which you are
comfortable.
If the inflated statistics said that 1 in 50 women was abused, but it was really only 1 in 100, would that be acceptable? How about 1 in 1000? Would you still be comfortable if that "1" was your daughter?
Please explain why there is any response to this rally other than general support for the idea of reducing sexual abuse, regardless of the numbers? That's an honest question. That such abuse happens at all is an abomination and shameful to the community; that it is dismissed as an unimportant topic by some in the community is exactly why such efforts to educate the public are needed.
If the inflated statistics said that 1 in 50 women was abused, but it was really only 1 in 100, would that be acceptable? How about 1 in 1000? Would you still be comfortable if that "1" was your daughter?
Please explain why there is any response to this rally other than general support for the idea of reducing sexual abuse, regardless of the numbers? That's an honest question. That such abuse happens at all is an abomination and shameful to the community; that it is dismissed as an unimportant topic by some in the community is exactly why such efforts to educate the public are needed.
Good for them... | 9:41 a.m. March 7, 2008
Back in the day when I was sexually molested, I was constantly reminded that I
was now "damaged goods" and I was counseled to repent because of the
outfit I had been wearing when the incident occurred.
I'm glad to see someone making a stand, and hopefully making a difference.
Even in Utah, rape really DOES happen!
I'm glad to see someone making a stand, and hopefully making a difference.
Even in Utah, rape really DOES happen!
get the connection? | 9:47 a.m. March 7, 2008
Ours is a violent society.
Even our sports have violent terminology such as, " the bomb," "blitz," "Soldier's Field," "War MemorialStadium," "hitting," "clipping" "blocking," "piling on," "shotgun," etc.
The connection between campus violence, rape,and domestic violence must surely come from a culture that thinks nothing of nuking or shock-and-aweing innocent women and children during wartime.
Even our sports have violent terminology such as, " the bomb," "blitz," "Soldier's Field," "War MemorialStadium," "hitting," "clipping" "blocking," "piling on," "shotgun," etc.
The connection between campus violence, rape,and domestic violence must surely come from a culture that thinks nothing of nuking or shock-and-aweing innocent women and children during wartime.
Moessers | 10:23 a.m. March 7, 2008
When I read something like this attached to BYU, I think of my friend's
bishop. When she went to him for help against her husbands domestic abuse, she
was told by her bishop that she was not doing enough to keep her husband happy.
If she did her job as a wife, she wouldn't be making her husband act this
way.
Thomas | 10:50 a.m. March 7, 2008
Typical bullying attitude: If you question an activist's statistics (which
are, in fact, questionable), you must not care about the problem.
People, the fact that you are fighting a good fight and promoting a good cause doesn't justify you in pushing misleading statistics, or insulting people who voice some legitimate skepticism. Why not? Because it's the secular version of the bugaboo "lying for the Lord." A good cause doesn't need a bodyguard of lies, and it dirties itself when it assembles one.
People, the fact that you are fighting a good fight and promoting a good cause doesn't justify you in pushing misleading statistics, or insulting people who voice some legitimate skepticism. Why not? Because it's the secular version of the bugaboo "lying for the Lord." A good cause doesn't need a bodyguard of lies, and it dirties itself when it assembles one.
The UN? | 10:54 a.m. March 7, 2008
What do they honestly expect the UN to do? This is a great idea that will go to
waste with a petition to the United Nations. What good has it ever REALLY done?
Caitlin's #1 Fan | 11:08 a.m. March 7, 2008
Caitlin Carroll is going to change the world.
John | 11:45 a.m. March 7, 2008
Has anyone ever walked up the the 'Y'. I mean thats one of the coolest
things ever.
To "So in other words" | 1:11 p.m. March 7, 2008
Which facts are most important to you? Statistically precise figures, or the
magnitude and weight of the problem?
The "fact" is, that most victims are traumatized to the extent that they are unable to report the crime. How do you collect exact figures in this case? Another poster said to try doing your own research... Hmmm, so they believe that someone who has experienced this kind of pain and suffering will be willing to respond accurately to a casual pollster? Would the results of such a poll be "factual"? Would it satisfy you?
The reality is that this crime goes greatly unreported. From my own awareness, the figure of 1 of 8 women in Utah being raped is probably about right. The truth is, however, that the feelings of those victimized by sexual abuse ARE what matters, not how quantifiable they are.
The fact that some are willing to oppose complacency about this tragedy is laudable.
The "fact" is, that most victims are traumatized to the extent that they are unable to report the crime. How do you collect exact figures in this case? Another poster said to try doing your own research... Hmmm, so they believe that someone who has experienced this kind of pain and suffering will be willing to respond accurately to a casual pollster? Would the results of such a poll be "factual"? Would it satisfy you?
The reality is that this crime goes greatly unreported. From my own awareness, the figure of 1 of 8 women in Utah being raped is probably about right. The truth is, however, that the feelings of those victimized by sexual abuse ARE what matters, not how quantifiable they are.
The fact that some are willing to oppose complacency about this tragedy is laudable.
Carl Brinton | 1:59 p.m. March 7, 2008
The 1 in 8 figure was found by the Utah Commission on Criminal and Juvenile
Justice in response to an estimate by an academic who posited the rate at 1 in
5. The results aren't perfect (no surveys are), but they use the same sound
methodology that the Bureau of Justice Statistics uses for the Crime
Victimization Survey. Quite frankly, due to the low reporting rate (lowest of
any violent crime), you simply cannot find more accurate statistics. And for all
those naysayers who charge activists with using faulty numbers, that is not
always true. I'm getting a degree in economic with an emphasis in
econometrics (double with Asian studies) because I recognize how difficult and
important it is to get accurate estimates on numbers.
So, if you buy into any statistics, you should buy into these. And if you buy into these, you should act. Please go to saynotoviolence.org and sign the petition. It is honestly no skin off your nose, but it just might help someone somewhere, which is more than worth 10 seconds of your time.
So, if you buy into any statistics, you should buy into these. And if you buy into these, you should act. Please go to saynotoviolence.org and sign the petition. It is honestly no skin off your nose, but it just might help someone somewhere, which is more than worth 10 seconds of your time.
Action? | 2:34 p.m. March 7, 2008
I get the picture. Sexual abuse is horrible and wrong. I agree it's a
problem. The info presented is great and enlightening - figures I never had
heard before. Getting the public aware of how things are is critical to
fighting against this evil. However, signing a petition is supposed to help
how? Because 100,000 or 500 million people sign a petition changes nothing and
influences to no one. The laws are on the books, enforcement is ongoing; what
will help the problem? Support for the victims to come forward and prosecute
the offenders is much more likely to make a difference.
I like the idea. The plan of action is useless.
I like the idea. The plan of action is useless.
Anonymous | 2:59 p.m. March 7, 2008
Just shows how naive Utah Mormons are. They haven't got a clue how the real
world works, and all anybody can do is further isolate them. Shame.
DUH! | 4:43 p.m. March 7, 2008
As I see it there is too much wool pulled over everyones eyes in this state,
including some of the leaders. By breaking the Law of the land you are not
living as you should within the church. However, I have lived in the outside
world (THE REAL WORLD) and I know for true fact how the world is. So some of you
people in Utah who live a with drawn world will soon or later and eventually get
some rude and sad awakenings by mankind. OPEN YOU EYES FOLKS!!!
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Jason Katzenbach reads a sign noting "Women aged 15-44 are more at risk from rape and domestic violence than from cancer, car crashes, war or malaria."
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Rally against illegal, immoral, and bankrupting wars too.