Reader comments
2008 Legislature: Session ends on quiet note
44 comments | Read story
Michael | 7:19 a.m. March 6, 2008
Great job of summarizing all the bills, changes and impacts. Though I would like
to know more details about the special funding granted to Salt Lake City for
TRAX.
Math Education | 7:28 a.m. March 6, 2008
It may not seem obvious to many, but the most important thing the legislature
had to do this session was to deal with the decline in math education. We are
simply not adequately preparing future scientists and engineers and others
wanting and needing a first rate education. Future engineers will be able to
adequately apply what they have learned, but when it comes to innovative problem
solving they will have problems because the math taught them in junior high and
high school doesn't challenge them enough to solve problems that are not of
the canned variety.
Math education used to do this quite will but has been simplified and dumbed down. There will be a task force to deal with math education. I urge those about to serve on this committee to do your best, to be dilligent and to restore what has been lost.
Our future will depend on your efforts and your dilligence.
Math education used to do this quite will but has been simplified and dumbed down. There will be a task force to deal with math education. I urge those about to serve on this committee to do your best, to be dilligent and to restore what has been lost.
Our future will depend on your efforts and your dilligence.
Comments continue below
Jud | 8:03 a.m. March 6, 2008
This was neither comedy nor "comity," Governor--this was tragedy.
Buttars, Dayton, Peterson, Tilton, Valentine, Hughes--the whole know-nothing,
corrupt bunch--need to be replaced.
Anonymous | 8:10 a.m. March 6, 2008
Well I'm glad the legislators and governor are having fun patting each
other on the back. They just forced me off my health insurance by raising
PEHP's rates $298 a month.
The Promise | 8:22 a.m. March 6, 2008
Another session of broken promises for Utah teachers. That makes about twenty
three in a row!!
Re: The Promise | 9:23 a.m. March 6, 2008
How can you say there have been 23 straight years of broken promises for Utah
teachers? Nearly every year that the legislature has had a surplus (and even
when they don't), they have given a huge portion of it to school boards to
lower class sizes, or build new schools, or increase teacher pay. How the school
districts deal with that money is another issue. At a committee hearing a
legislator asked a superintendent how much money it would take for educators to
stop asking for more. The answer? "There is no amount, Senator." Both
of my parents and my only sister are educators. I'm a high school athletics
coach. I'm the first to say teachers should get paid more, but if the UEA
wants to get anything, they need to stop their constant whining. Try some other
tactics. I know there are leaders on the hill, such as Speaker Curtis, who fight
for educators but get shot down because everyone is just so sick of the whining.
Give it a rest.
Broken Promises? | 9:43 a.m. March 6, 2008
A 19% increase in pay over three years is a broken promise? I WISH I had that.
How much is enough? Really, how much is enough?
Broken Promises to the People | 9:44 a.m. March 6, 2008
The public went in with EVERY reason to believe we were going to get a tax cut,
but we were handed a dead fish and a tax hike!?
Every year it's the same story...Record surpluses reported up front, then less than expected tax revenues expected hence, no tax cuts. WE ARE OVER TAXED but the legislators just want to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND OUR MONEY.
I think we need to change some laws that say ANY tax hike, state or federal, needs to be approved by the people who are paying that tax. What ever happened to 'no taxation without representation?'
This is an election year and I suggest we do something about our elected officials NOT serving the people but funding their own self interests and little pet projects.
Every year it's the same story...Record surpluses reported up front, then less than expected tax revenues expected hence, no tax cuts. WE ARE OVER TAXED but the legislators just want to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND OUR MONEY.
I think we need to change some laws that say ANY tax hike, state or federal, needs to be approved by the people who are paying that tax. What ever happened to 'no taxation without representation?'
This is an election year and I suggest we do something about our elected officials NOT serving the people but funding their own self interests and little pet projects.
wrz | 10:01 a.m. March 6, 2008
How is it that legislators think those who buy their own health insurance gets a
tax break?
No Promise | 10:10 a.m. March 6, 2008
Whatever makes them happy doesn't make us happy. They are the winners and
we are the losers.
Science Teacher | 10:17 a.m. March 6, 2008
See, here's the difference. When the average Joe works hard, he gets
promotions, raises, congratulations.
Most teachers get nothing and have to beg for a legislative vote (on a yearly basis) for a raise.
Our raises (per pay schedule) are eaten up by increasing costs for medical insurance. I'm already having to cut off my own son for dental insurance. Just can't afford it!
All this, and we're about the lowest paid teachers in the country. Teachers are leaving the profession forever and many are going elsewhere.
The dept of education in universities are chock full of kids that will never see the inside of a Utah classroom. We subsidize their education through taxes and they go to another state!
If you want successful education, we need to keep people here.
Just the other day, our administrator announced that next year's schedules would be early this year because the district needs a few more months for hiring. They just have too many openings.
Less teachers=more kids per class=less education.
We're already WAY above the limit for kids/class. Don't believe the published numbers. They are averages and include small classes of resource and special ed worked in.
Most teachers get nothing and have to beg for a legislative vote (on a yearly basis) for a raise.
Our raises (per pay schedule) are eaten up by increasing costs for medical insurance. I'm already having to cut off my own son for dental insurance. Just can't afford it!
All this, and we're about the lowest paid teachers in the country. Teachers are leaving the profession forever and many are going elsewhere.
The dept of education in universities are chock full of kids that will never see the inside of a Utah classroom. We subsidize their education through taxes and they go to another state!
If you want successful education, we need to keep people here.
Just the other day, our administrator announced that next year's schedules would be early this year because the district needs a few more months for hiring. They just have too many openings.
Less teachers=more kids per class=less education.
We're already WAY above the limit for kids/class. Don't believe the published numbers. They are averages and include small classes of resource and special ed worked in.
To Broken Promises | 10:29 a.m. March 6, 2008
I'll tell you how much is enough . . . enough to attract the best and the
brightest to the profession. Now THAT would be enough, and it's independent
of you and me how much that is. I would love to see my daughter taught by a
chemistry teacher who actually knows something about the subject. I complained
to the principal, and he said, "If you can find me a chemist who would be
willing to teach for what I can pay, I'd be the first to hire."
I'm not a teacher, but even from a distance I can see that our
anti-intellectual legislators insist year after year on keeping our teachers at
starvation wages. The tiny increases they give barely keep up with inflation.
Ken | 10:41 a.m. March 6, 2008
Don't you just love to hear the teachers whining? Like the previous post
stated a 19% increase. That is not even on my wish list. Cry me a river.
19% increase | 10:43 a.m. March 6, 2008
I'm glad the governor and legislators are proud of themselves for the 19%
teachers raises over the years- however, the facts are is that Utah educators
are still one of the lower paid states. A starting teacher is barely above the
poverty level.
J | 10:55 a.m. March 6, 2008
As reported in the Deseret News-A person receiving a "Purple Heart"
will receive free college payments up to $10,000. I am trying to figure this one
out. A soldier can receive a Bronze Star for Heroism or a Silver Star and
receive nothing. Like the lady who received a scratch on her hand during a
bombing and received a Purple Heart. For all the COMBAT soldiers that have spent
months in the field being shot at I feel this legislation is a little off. I
guarantee even a recipient of a Purple Heart would want a person who was
decorated for Heroism to receive the same benefits if not more! In Viet Nam the
majority of the medals for heroism went to combat soldiers- the scratches were
ignored and if you were not medivaced you were not serious enough to get a
Purple Heart. I have great respect for the Purple Heart for a REAL wound- but my
respect for my first sergeant with his 3 CIB's, 4 Silver Stars, and 4
Bronze Star's with a V is a little greater- He would not be eligible for a
college credit because he did not have one Purple Heart.
once again | 11:06 a.m. March 6, 2008
The teachers get burned! We are dead last and hear the same thing , year after
year time to head to a state that respects it's teachers so i can retire
with some peace of mind!
the promise | 11:44 a.m. March 6, 2008
Teachers do not make enough money, period. The increases are appreciated, but we
are so far behind that it isn't enough to catch up.
The legislature gives more money, but the class sizes still increase every year with the influx of people in the state. When the rising price of insurance and rising inflation, it is difficult to make a living.
I have taught English for six years. I routinely work ten-hour days and the custodians in my building make more money annually than I do (and I think they deserve to be paid well). I love teaching, and I work hard, but I routinely question whether or not it is worth it when I could double my salary in the private sector.
Believe me, $30,000, and a lot of unpaid overtime, is not enough for a family of four.
The legislature gives more money, but the class sizes still increase every year with the influx of people in the state. When the rising price of insurance and rising inflation, it is difficult to make a living.
I have taught English for six years. I routinely work ten-hour days and the custodians in my building make more money annually than I do (and I think they deserve to be paid well). I love teaching, and I work hard, but I routinely question whether or not it is worth it when I could double my salary in the private sector.
Believe me, $30,000, and a lot of unpaid overtime, is not enough for a family of four.
Anonymous | 12:21 p.m. March 6, 2008
I have a masters degree and have taught for 16 years. I made $54,000 last year.
I'm o.k. with that. The starting salary needs to be increased to about
$40,000 a year if we are going to attract quality, new teachers.
I hate the UEA and its whining every year. They fight against giving math and science teachers more money. Why? Because the UEA leaders usually don't teach and are looking to protect the old timers. They want the WPU money so they can negotiate it where they want.
I love that the legislature is giving money straight to the teachers again.
I hate the UEA and its whining every year. They fight against giving math and science teachers more money. Why? Because the UEA leaders usually don't teach and are looking to protect the old timers. They want the WPU money so they can negotiate it where they want.
I love that the legislature is giving money straight to the teachers again.
Science Teacher | 12:40 p.m. March 6, 2008
I disagree with paying me more than others. Favoring one over the other will
only cause future shortages of band teachers...
or special ed...
or language...
or history...
or english...
Let's not try and solve one problem by causing another. Fix it by raising the wages to the national average and fixing it there permanently.
or special ed...
or language...
or history...
or english...
Let's not try and solve one problem by causing another. Fix it by raising the wages to the national average and fixing it there permanently.
educate | 12:49 p.m. March 6, 2008
WE need to consider teachers work 9-10months of the year in the classroom. Too
much money is wasted in the District offices, too much money lost in
administration that is why it doesn't make it to the teachers. Plus why
would you want too many intelligent teachers, you can't dumb down people
that way. There are good teachers but there are a lot that should be elsewhere.
It's time to really educate a teacher before they go into the
classroom
Money doesn't make an intelligent teacher but it may bring some good ones in
Money doesn't make an intelligent teacher but it may bring some good ones in
$40,000 | 1:09 p.m. March 6, 2008
People ask how much teachers make. I'm happy to say I'm finally at
$40,000 a year. I think it's an accomplishment in education. To get to
this extravagant wage (sarcasm intended) I earned a Master's Degree in
Education and have eight years of experience. I also have a reading and ESL
endorsment. I love teaching, but I hardly thing for my experience and education
that I'm overpaid.
An Actual Worker | 1:09 p.m. March 6, 2008
I hate to tell you this, but I work OUT of the home too, am gone for 9 1/2 hours
out of the day. I make $32,000/year, but have to pay $300.00/month for family
health/dental insurance. I drive a long way to work, and I can't deduct
that, at least as a teacher you can deduct what you pay for! My dad was a
teacher for 36 years, raised 6 girls, we went on vacation every year for 2
weeks, and had insurance. He now has great retirement benefits because he was a
teacher. Yes there may be a lot of kids in a class room but you are in UTAH,
the kid making capitol of the WORLD! What bugs me is there are a TON of days
off, I recently tried to contact a Senior High English teacher - she was out for
1 full week of school explain THAT! I have to work 5 days a week, 50 weeks a
year, and have to work through the summer. HMM?
Re: Science Teacher | 1:14 p.m. March 6, 2008
Do you want to be paid like the professional you are? Then you need to accept
being paid like a professional, not the socialized pay scale.
Merit pay, supply/demand, easier ability to boot the crappy teachers and reward the better teachers, competing with your peers, etc.
Btw we start our professionals between $33k - $38k for 2015 scheduled hrs/year, we routinely put in considerable unpaid overtime. In the last 3 years, I've received 17.5% in raises, I have over 16 years experience. I'm not complaining. How does that compare to teachers? And can you help me understand where they're getting the shaft by the state?
Merit pay, supply/demand, easier ability to boot the crappy teachers and reward the better teachers, competing with your peers, etc.
Btw we start our professionals between $33k - $38k for 2015 scheduled hrs/year, we routinely put in considerable unpaid overtime. In the last 3 years, I've received 17.5% in raises, I have over 16 years experience. I'm not complaining. How does that compare to teachers? And can you help me understand where they're getting the shaft by the state?
Xister | 2:06 p.m. March 6, 2008
Are we concerned about paying our teachers for the sake of the teachers or for
the students? If it's for the students, then it is reasonable to pay a
math or a science teacher more because a good scientist is being wooed by larger
salaries elsewhere than the English teachers are. A good history teacher is
less expensive than a good chemistry teacher, but both are needed.
It is true though that we also need to pay all of our teachers for the service that they provide to students. While it doesn't offend me to offer the best education possible to students through a variable salary structure (like one you'd see at BYU or UofU), I think that even the pay offered to English and history teachers is not currently enough to attract and maintain the level of education that we need in Utah to remain competitive.
It is true though that we also need to pay all of our teachers for the service that they provide to students. While it doesn't offend me to offer the best education possible to students through a variable salary structure (like one you'd see at BYU or UofU), I think that even the pay offered to English and history teachers is not currently enough to attract and maintain the level of education that we need in Utah to remain competitive.
RE:Broken Promises | 2:21 p.m. March 6, 2008
Where might I ask are you getting the figure of 19%. That is laughable!!!
Re: Science Teacher | 2:39 p.m. March 6, 2008
It's not a question of who's getting shafted. It's a question of
market forces. You pay secretarial wages, you're not going to get a
top-notch scientist in the classroom, and anybody who thinks so is nuts. Pay
what's necessary to get the best people or be satisfied with what you have,
Utah.
Science Teacher | 2:46 p.m. March 6, 2008
To xister: the reason for equal pay is that once you pay one department more
for the same time, you will start rivalry. Sure, you'll find more math and
science teachers. However, you will start to notice over the years that fewer
and fewer ed. students are graduating in the lower paying areas. Thus, a
shortage in another area. The whole fervor for math and science teachers is
stemming from NCLB and is misguided at best.
To the previous poster:
Fine, you define what merit pay is. If you can do it fairly (and no one to date has), I'm fine with it. I put in more hours than I'm paid and spend the majority of my vacation prepping and going to classes and conferences. So stop the whining about your father. It was an easier time then, as any teacher of 30+ years can attest to.
To the previous poster:
Fine, you define what merit pay is. If you can do it fairly (and no one to date has), I'm fine with it. I put in more hours than I'm paid and spend the majority of my vacation prepping and going to classes and conferences. So stop the whining about your father. It was an easier time then, as any teacher of 30+ years can attest to.
Science Teacher | 2:52 p.m. March 6, 2008
Oh, and since I'm going to leave my "socialized" payscale, do I
get bonuses?
Will I be paid per student, since it is much harder to teach 40 than 20?
Do I get a Christmas bonus based on the dividends of my company?
What happens if I have a good year? Will I get a large bonus?
Get real...
Will I be paid per student, since it is much harder to teach 40 than 20?
Do I get a Christmas bonus based on the dividends of my company?
What happens if I have a good year? Will I get a large bonus?
Get real...
Teacher and not complaining | 2:56 p.m. March 6, 2008
I appreciate the State helping teacher�s salaries rise over
the last few years. The trend of compensation is good and we as teachers should
be happy about the direction it is going. I am concerned about the Legislatures
mandates to districts (not a complaint just a concern). I believe that a
district in San Juan has completely different challenges that a Jordan school
district. I know that local people making decisions to benefit their districts
are better than Legislators mandating where money should go and be spent.
Legislators please don't usurp power, just because you can. Hold to your
republican principles; the government closest to the people know what is best
for the people.
Henry H. | 3:50 p.m. March 6, 2008
What a laugh. It never changes. Teachers whining and complaining that they are
underpayed and abused. Think of it as really good pay for a part time job. You
want more?, work more ! That applies especially to math and science teachers.
If not, then quit your job and go to the private sector, I don't think you
will find it any better.
Liars use statistics | 4:03 p.m. March 6, 2008
19% is inaccurate. If that were the case, Those making $30,000 three years ago
would be making $36,000 + COLA raises to toal about $40,000 this year. That is
not the case.
The $1,700 "raise" is not a raise at all, but a continuation (actaully a decrease) of the same ONE-TIME "raise" amount given last year. When they put these one-time amounts together and then make a percentage number out of it, they are stating a fallacy.
One-time raises are appreciated. Don't use them to tell a lie.
The $1,700 "raise" is not a raise at all, but a continuation (actaully a decrease) of the same ONE-TIME "raise" amount given last year. When they put these one-time amounts together and then make a percentage number out of it, they are stating a fallacy.
One-time raises are appreciated. Don't use them to tell a lie.
wrz | 4:24 p.m. March 6, 2008
"I'm already having to cut off my own son for dental insurance. Just
can't afford it!"
If you're buying dental insurance for your son, you're crazy!
If you're buying dental insurance for your son, you're crazy!
Science Teacher | 9:50 p.m. March 6, 2008
Why am I crazy for getting my son dental insurance? How else can I afford to
take him to the dentist?
It seems like many posters here have never taken or failed Econ 101.
I'm paid a decent wage. I can live on it. Fine. However, it is by no means a fair wage for the amount of work nor the amount of continuous training/education. Many others feel the same way, thus the exodus.
Teaching is not an attractive job because of the low pay, long hours, unpaid hours that never end, lack of bonuses and rewards for all the extra effort, and constant berating from parents, students, and the general public.
Honestly, if it were such a great job, why are we short hundreds of teachers, losing more next year, and ALL OF YOU WOULDN'T DREAM OF BEING A TEACHER?
Why?
It seems like many posters here have never taken or failed Econ 101.
I'm paid a decent wage. I can live on it. Fine. However, it is by no means a fair wage for the amount of work nor the amount of continuous training/education. Many others feel the same way, thus the exodus.
Teaching is not an attractive job because of the low pay, long hours, unpaid hours that never end, lack of bonuses and rewards for all the extra effort, and constant berating from parents, students, and the general public.
Honestly, if it were such a great job, why are we short hundreds of teachers, losing more next year, and ALL OF YOU WOULDN'T DREAM OF BEING A TEACHER?
Why?
Math teacher | 10:00 p.m. March 6, 2008
I am a second year math teacher and teach in a charter school. We are at will
employees with no chance of ever getting tenure. And as a teacher I am so ok
with that. This nonsense of working 3 years in a profession and being set for
ages is a joke! Although I work more hours than I would ever want to count, we
have real evaluations, bonuses, etc that are actually tied to our performance,
not how long we have been on the job. In what other job do you get paid for
being "on the job" and not for performance? I come from another
profession and now that I see the whole "education" arena, I
understand where a lot of problems come from.
RE:RE:Broken Promises | 10:19 p.m. March 6, 2008
Did you read the article? That's where I got it.
Re: Math teacher 10pm | 10:39 p.m. March 6, 2008
You asked, "What other job do you get paid for being 'on the job'
and not for performance? The answer is any elected official.
RE:RE:RE:Broken Promises | 10:45 p.m. March 6, 2008
What the WPU has been raised, combined with the $2500 and $1000 bonus from last
year and the $1700 from this year are equal to a 19% raise for first year
teachers. What they don't like to tell you is that they may raise the WPU
by 7%, but that is no guarantee that the teachers will see a raise from it at
all. Or if they do get a raise, by some miraculous coincidence insurance rates
paid by the teachers go up by the exact same amount. Which is what happens
unless the Legislature bypasses the WPU and gives the teachers the raise or
bonus, for that I thank the Legislature.
Science Teacher | 11:17 p.m. March 6, 2008
3 year tenure means nothing in Utah. If they want you gone, they'll get
you.
As a second year teacher, your tune will change. LOL. Just wait until you have a family and bills.
And, btw, many charters won't say it, but they get to pick and choose which kids they teach. Don't tell me otherwise. I've had way too many kids come back to my classroom after being kicked out of charter schools. A dirty little secret charter schools don't talk about.
As a second year teacher, your tune will change. LOL. Just wait until you have a family and bills.
And, btw, many charters won't say it, but they get to pick and choose which kids they teach. Don't tell me otherwise. I've had way too many kids come back to my classroom after being kicked out of charter schools. A dirty little secret charter schools don't talk about.
rk | 12:05 a.m. March 7, 2008
Pay all teachers $250,000 per year and the whining will not cease. It may abate
for a while, but it will start again when people get used to spending at the new
wage.
The core problem is not the pay, but the system that bind teachers down. They are the bottom rung of a totem pole, at the mercy of the bureaucrats that extend to the Federal DOE who are crapping down on them fiscally and regulatorily. There are also teachers that feel a sense of entitlement with the current system and fight any changes to it.
Until teachers throw off the chains of the system, the union, the bureaucrats, they'll remain at the bottom of the crapper. Pay increases are nice scraps to throw at their feet, but the problem won't be fixed, teacher shortages will continue, and kids will continue to be well schooled but uneducated.
The core problem is not the pay, but the system that bind teachers down. They are the bottom rung of a totem pole, at the mercy of the bureaucrats that extend to the Federal DOE who are crapping down on them fiscally and regulatorily. There are also teachers that feel a sense of entitlement with the current system and fight any changes to it.
Until teachers throw off the chains of the system, the union, the bureaucrats, they'll remain at the bottom of the crapper. Pay increases are nice scraps to throw at their feet, but the problem won't be fixed, teacher shortages will continue, and kids will continue to be well schooled but uneducated.
21 Year Teacher | 6:20 a.m. March 7, 2008
2nd year math teacher in a charter school and you see the whole education arena
and understand where the problems come from, I think not. Charter schools are
public schools in name only. They operate in an entirely different arena. You
live in a sheltered version of a public school.
Are there problems in education in the state of Utah? Absolutely. Will money solve all the problems? Absolutely not. Is it realistic to say that money has no part of the problems when the spending in the state of Utah is more than $3,000 per student below the national average? Absolutely not. Can you have the best education system without being the top spender per pupil in the country? Absolutely. Can you have the best education system in the country by being the lowest spender per pupil (which Utah is). Absolutely not.
Did the last minute revival of a series of bills that previously had been defeated do anything to help improve education in the state of Utah? Absolutely not. They were funded with one time money, what happens next year? The local districts will be responsible for funding those items just passed.
Are there problems in education in the state of Utah? Absolutely. Will money solve all the problems? Absolutely not. Is it realistic to say that money has no part of the problems when the spending in the state of Utah is more than $3,000 per student below the national average? Absolutely not. Can you have the best education system without being the top spender per pupil in the country? Absolutely. Can you have the best education system in the country by being the lowest spender per pupil (which Utah is). Absolutely not.
Did the last minute revival of a series of bills that previously had been defeated do anything to help improve education in the state of Utah? Absolutely not. They were funded with one time money, what happens next year? The local districts will be responsible for funding those items just passed.
Science Teacher | 6:39 a.m. March 7, 2008
Not true. If you raise the wage to a decent level, you invite major
competition.
When it competes with private sector jobs, the teaching industry will hold its own.
The complaints come because we are locked into a payscale that doesn't pay a living wage for new teachers, most teaching education classes don't transfer over to other fields without having to go back for another degree, and quite frankly, other states pay much more!
When it competes with private sector jobs, the teaching industry will hold its own.
The complaints come because we are locked into a payscale that doesn't pay a living wage for new teachers, most teaching education classes don't transfer over to other fields without having to go back for another degree, and quite frankly, other states pay much more!
Micromanagement Team | 2:35 p.m. March 7, 2008
Isn't it interesting that the Utah State Legislature complains bitterly
about the micromanagement when it comes to them from the federal government.
However it is somehow different when they turn around and micromanage schools.
I think I will run for the Utah State Legislature, and if I win then I will be
able to rub shoulders with those who are all knowing.(of course I would have to
be a republican to be allowed into the elite group)
The Promise | 2:38 p.m. March 7, 2008
I say again, without reservation another year of broken promises. When it all
washes out and the final numbers are established you will realize "The
Promise" knows.
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EVERYONE BYU OR UTAH FAN ALIKE NEEDS TO UNITE AND MAKE YOUR VOICES HEARD FOR...
The sad reality is that Utah hasn't won a big road game in years. Can anyone...
TCU= cure for Ute arrogance! But hey, humility is a great character trait!
All of you Ute fans.....NOT!
All the kewgs talkin smack is great. TCU is a great team that will represent...
I can say one thing for certain. I love watching the Utes lose. I love it I...
The Utes were down 35-7 with eight minutes left in the FIRST HALF and they...
Great job TCU for killing my Utes. You guys are a great team. Enjoy this...
"Further, the only man who qualifies for the Melchizedek priesthood is Jesus...
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We have a major problem with a lack of Constitutional Lawyers watching the Chicken House.
Box Elder Court denies the Utah State Constitution
The Courts are operating Un Constitutionally
The Justice Courts are Courts of Prosecution and Collection
Forget the Justice part
This court is all about collecting money legal or not legal.
The Ordanances are violations of ones Civil Rights to live in their home un incumbered with Law Enforcement over stepping their bounds.
The cops are not your friends, Failed to learn the peoples rights