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Utah's No. 1 for governing
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another reason | 2:29 p.m. March 4, 2008
the report found that "the level of coordination between the
governor's office and the Legislature goes beyond party loyalty."
perhaps they all have something else in common... which is ofen derided and cursed in this comment area....
perhaps they all have something else in common... which is ofen derided and cursed in this comment area....
The True Ute | 2:36 p.m. March 4, 2008
move somewhere else, yeah right. your only renting till you move to MISSOURI!!
Comments continue below
Michael-New Zealand | 2:50 p.m. March 4, 2008
We have more sheep than you do and we could surely use some of what you got!!
Our government is so poorly run the place is falling down around us after 9 years of left wing hate of anything decent! Read more if you doubt me.
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Our government is so poorly run the place is falling down around us after 9 years of left wing hate of anything decent! Read more if you doubt me.
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Re: SLC'er | 2:46 p.m. March 4, 2008
Skybridges and alco-pops? Let's move to something a little more
substantive. Say, for example, the immigration debate. I don't see that
the legislature has aligned at all with the Church's position on this
issue. Your reference to Amendment 3 is also without much substance - at least
ten other states also passed a similar amendment. Is the Mormon Church also
controlling things in those states? Also, if the Church is going to dump nearly
$2 billion into giving downtown a much needed facelift, I don't think
pushing for a skybridge equates to influencing public policy. As for
Leavitt's 'scripture study', I personally don't agree with
it, but you still haven't identified specific instances of how those
meetings affected public policy. Please provide something substantive.
You are correct | 3:01 p.m. March 4, 2008
The immigration bill is a good indication of CHURCH involvement. What a shame!
Church leaping noses need to attend to their congregations and stay out of
politics!
Oppressive | 3:56 p.m. March 4, 2008
Congratulations! I wish my state were as well managed as Utah, at least
fiscally. On the other hand, I'm delighted to pay higher taxes to live in a
state with a culture of open-mindedness instead of all those outdated and weird
Utah traditions that stifle both members and non-members of the majority
religion. Ugh.
AbeFroman | 4:13 p.m. March 4, 2008
Touche SLC'er. Now I look a little foolish. Thanks.
My main sticking point, one that I probably could have stated clearly and with a little less arrogance, is that while the FF had a concept of "Seperation" it doesn't appear to be to the same severe degree that we project upon the concept today. There is ample reference to God and "Christian" ideals in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. I do not think they intended Christianity to be pushed upon all US citizens but I also don't believe they would have agreed with the utter abolishment of religion from every whit of public life. Which is why I think the phrase is often used cavalierly and frequently misapplied. In the end, while I agree with the intial concept, I don't like it's misapplication by those pushing a personal agenda (I'm not implicating you, SLC'er, in that statement).
However, it still appears nowhere in official written State documents except the Supreme Court Majority Opinion.
My main sticking point, one that I probably could have stated clearly and with a little less arrogance, is that while the FF had a concept of "Seperation" it doesn't appear to be to the same severe degree that we project upon the concept today. There is ample reference to God and "Christian" ideals in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. I do not think they intended Christianity to be pushed upon all US citizens but I also don't believe they would have agreed with the utter abolishment of religion from every whit of public life. Which is why I think the phrase is often used cavalierly and frequently misapplied. In the end, while I agree with the intial concept, I don't like it's misapplication by those pushing a personal agenda (I'm not implicating you, SLC'er, in that statement).
However, it still appears nowhere in official written State documents except the Supreme Court Majority Opinion.
Sal | 4:18 p.m. March 4, 2008
I didn't like the way business was done in home country and I moved to THE
US.
If SLC'er feels that Utah has too many sheep he/she should move to any other 49 states that might have more wolves. How about go to Cuba? There, state and church is totally separated.
If SLC'er feels that Utah has too many sheep he/she should move to any other 49 states that might have more wolves. How about go to Cuba? There, state and church is totally separated.
Re: SLC'er | 4:26 p.m. March 4, 2008
Please explain how the immigration bill is a "good indication of Church
involvement." The Church has simply asked that lawmakers remember we are
dealing with real people here. I don't see any detailed policy statements
or any indication whatsoever of what the Church might be advocating, except
compassionate treatment of others, which is perfectly in line with their role as
a religious organization as they "attend to their congregations" and
all mankind, for that matter. This argument could go in circles for quite a
while. My point is this - I have never known the Mormon Church to instruct any
member to vote one way or another on ANYTHING, nor would the Church take any
action against a member based on their voting record. I don't know what
more can be said.
SLC'er | 4:28 p.m. March 4, 2008
Re:SLC'er, how are those issues mentioned not substantive? While I might
not drink those beverages, and i'm assuming you don't, it is the
Church throwing its weight around and affecting other individuals' lives.
And while I appreciate the Church's investment in downtown, that
doesn't mean that leaders should sign off on their business plans, simply
because they are the ones investing. I imagine a private business owner would
be subject to much more scrutiny. Finally, to immigration - ah that topic that
gets these blogger's hearts beating like 2 full bottles of Mt. Dew. Tell
me how political leaders differed with the Church? The Church's only
statement was asking for "compassion." We've hardly heard a peep
about immigration during this session. Sounds like the legislators took the
Church's advice.
cbk | 4:32 p.m. March 4, 2008
If there were Democrats in Utah, Utah would not be ranked as high.
Utah | 4:55 p.m. March 4, 2008
To many cops looking for trouble and you are it.
It is called a quota
They all have to arrest someone and lie about the arrest.
Aparently they are paid for prosecutions and percentage of the fines
Fines are out of site in Utah
You would think this is Calif. with high paying jobs.
The State is a Milker and you are the Milkee
It is called a quota
They all have to arrest someone and lie about the arrest.
Aparently they are paid for prosecutions and percentage of the fines
Fines are out of site in Utah
You would think this is Calif. with high paying jobs.
The State is a Milker and you are the Milkee
Anonymous | 4:56 p.m. March 4, 2008
Mexico will take this land back. So get use to your darker friends. We are here
to stay. If you don't like it than go back to Europe!
Re: SLC'er | 5:12 p.m. March 4, 2008
I'm sorry, I just don't see how asking alco-pops to be sold only in
state liquor stores is a big issue. I think the point was to protect kids. And
as for the skybridge, I actually think the Church attracts more scrutiny. If a
developer were going to put $2 billion into downtown, the city and state would
be bending over backwards to keep them happy. As for immigration, we don't
have the time to get into the minutiae of SB81 or HB171 and it would be
difficult to apply the Church's 'position' to it because the
position is so general. We could go around and around with this, but I will
just reiterate my point that I made earlier: I have never known the Mormon
Church to instruct any member to vote one way or another on ANYTHING, nor would
the Church take any action against a member based on their voting record. I
don't know what more can be said.
Kita Kazoo | 6:49 p.m. March 4, 2008
A lot of people in Utah do not feel heard by their government;they feel that
their values are not being represented by their state legislators. So they feel
unfairly taxed.
What is even more frustrating to them is that someone would just look at the financial bottom line and deem the state to be superior to other states, when in their opinion it is not. They feel the state is actually mismanaging funds by not meeting the needs of ALL the people.
They are also upset that those lucky few who do feel their interests are being nurtured are self congratulatory by an award which does not represent the whole picture.
They might say that Utah might do well at balancing the checkbook, but dinner is burning and the baby has been left out to play naked in the street.
What is even more frustrating to them is that someone would just look at the financial bottom line and deem the state to be superior to other states, when in their opinion it is not. They feel the state is actually mismanaging funds by not meeting the needs of ALL the people.
They are also upset that those lucky few who do feel their interests are being nurtured are self congratulatory by an award which does not represent the whole picture.
They might say that Utah might do well at balancing the checkbook, but dinner is burning and the baby has been left out to play naked in the street.
SLC'er | 6:48 p.m. March 4, 2008
Well we differ on opinions then. Thank goodness for the 1st amendment and for
these forums where multiple viewpoints can be expressed. I agree that the
Church does not tell people how to vote, nor does it punish anyone for voting
contrary to the Church's position. But I find it hard to argue that the
Church is by far and away the biggest policy setter in the state and that many
politicians vote in line with the Church's stated (or unstated) policies.
You are right, these arguments could go on forever, we have our differences of
opinion, I respect yours, good debate.
no name | 6:52 p.m. March 4, 2008
Um..SLC'er, you are right that Mr. Jefferson used the phrase "a wall
of separation between church and state", but not for the purpose of
expelling any thought of religion from our government.
A small denomination of Baptists wrote to Mr. Jefferson fearing that if a state religion was set up by the government they would loose their rights to worship as they wanted to. In his answer to their letter, Mr. Jefferson quoted a famous Baptist minister, Roger Williams,who used the phrase "a wall of separation..." knowing that using the words of a famous minister that this little group revered would help ease their fears. In the letter you refer to, Mr. Jefferson wasn't saying that there could be no religious people in government, or no religious language, or symbols or even religious influence in government. He used the phrase to assure these people that our government would never create a state run church, which it hasn't. The headquarters of a church is here in Utah and naturally many of our government leaders belong to that church, so that may influence their decissions,but there is no state run church in this state or country.
A small denomination of Baptists wrote to Mr. Jefferson fearing that if a state religion was set up by the government they would loose their rights to worship as they wanted to. In his answer to their letter, Mr. Jefferson quoted a famous Baptist minister, Roger Williams,who used the phrase "a wall of separation..." knowing that using the words of a famous minister that this little group revered would help ease their fears. In the letter you refer to, Mr. Jefferson wasn't saying that there could be no religious people in government, or no religious language, or symbols or even religious influence in government. He used the phrase to assure these people that our government would never create a state run church, which it hasn't. The headquarters of a church is here in Utah and naturally many of our government leaders belong to that church, so that may influence their decissions,but there is no state run church in this state or country.
Anonymous | 7:44 p.m. March 4, 2008
Not an American, I would love to be counted among the sheep and say sign me up
for such a society which frequently comes at the top of the league when
measuring all that is good.
As a political animal, its a real pity your remaining presidential campaigners did not highlight such positive political points as they opposed Mitt Romney.
In a so-called free society where discrimination is not cool, it is still cool to be anti mormon.
Could someone send me the missionaries? Please? Pretty please?
Baaaaaaaa
As a political animal, its a real pity your remaining presidential campaigners did not highlight such positive political points as they opposed Mitt Romney.
In a so-called free society where discrimination is not cool, it is still cool to be anti mormon.
Could someone send me the missionaries? Please? Pretty please?
Baaaaaaaa
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