Deseret News | Reader comments: Work stops on $100M Orem project

Reader comments
Work stops on $100M Orem project

TOT | 12:53 a.m. March 3, 2008

Everytime I went to the auto parts store, I looked over at that monstrousity and wondered who would want to live there. In fact, over a year ago I cycled by the big hole they had dug to build it. This isn't New York City. There's no city life surrounding it. There's so many commercial vacancies in the Provo/Orem area. This is gonna be bad.

Anonymous | 6:53 a.m. March 3, 2008

I have developed in and around Utah for over 20 years and this project has never made sense...
Rooms that feel like hotel living?
Too much density? Traffic outside your door...
High rise downtown living without any walking downtown??
Expensive condos priced at $350, per foot make not sense to me.
Who wants to buy them?
Who wants to live that way?
5 people so far...

Previous Lies? | 7:19 a.m. March 3, 2008

So all those reports of how the project was selling like crazy were just lies apparently. Next the lawsuits from those who have paid will start. The reporter should have looked into the other two "midtown" projects. I expect they are doing even worse.

Comments continue below

It will get done | 7:28 a.m. March 3, 2008

It will work, it just may not be with the orignal developers. My guess,.....the city will step in and they(we) will pay for it. Too big a project to not finish.

Monstrousity | 7:39 a.m. March 3, 2008

I've always thought of that development as a monstrousity. I wish Orem would figure out a way to develop without making the whole city look like one giant strip mall.

critic | 7:58 a.m. March 3, 2008

This is the ugliest building on the ugliest street in Utah. A monstrosity totally out of character with where it is being built.

Another Orem Resident | 8:24 a.m. March 3, 2008

The big question is? Who on the city council approved this disaster - and WHY?

Anonymous | 8:27 a.m. March 3, 2008

I think previous comment writers are not reading correctly. The units have sold, but people are not able to close because of the credit crunch. I have always thought that this is a great project and I would like to live in something similar when I'm an empty nester.

Concerned Citizen | 9:14 a.m. March 3, 2008

Does anybody remember that the CITY paid for the parking garage to be built? Does anyone remember that the developer got that for FREE? Now we pay the bond with taxes so the developer can continue to build a building that doesn't make economic sense, because he has connections at OREM City. Who is going to organize a movement to hold them accountable?

anonymous | 9:21 a.m. March 3, 2008

These buildings are eye-sorers. I wish Orem cared more about the development of its city, but it is only to obvious they are greedy and willing to let anyone build anything, anywhere. This is definitly one of the ugliest projects in the valley. One big stucco west wall with no windows - please hire a decent arch.

TOT | 9:16 a.m. March 3, 2008

No, they have not sold. I bought a Lamborghini automobile. It's fantastic! The finance company won't give me the money so I can take it home, but I go by the dealership everyday to look at MY car.

What kind of a bizzaro world are we living in when we "OWN" something that the bank really owns and we have "BOUGHT" something that NOBODY has paid for? This is gonna get a lot worse.

Anonymous | 10:02 a.m. March 3, 2008

I assumed the west wall was going to be added on to later on. YOu would definitely put some windows there otherwise....

anonymous | 10:07 a.m. March 3, 2008

I believe that the project was doing well when we all saw great growth in Utah. Now that growth has slowed down it has hurt everyone selling at this time. I believe that this project is just one example of what many developers are facing at this time. The project is not ï¿½bad,ï¿½ nor is the developer, just like anyone trying to sell a home at this time is not "bad" because they can't sell as quickly as they could have a few years ago. I believe that this when finished will bring in more money into the area and be a great boost to the local economy in the long run. I believe that the Orem City Council saw this from the beginning and still see that this project will be a great return on a bit of our tax money.

Orem is not Alone!!! | 10:29 a.m. March 3, 2008

This is the same developer that wants to build the same project in Clearfield, and the same builder that wants to build the 14 story hotel in downtown Ogden. Can you imagine the people of Ogden having a 14 story downtown hotel stop construction half way through the process. It will be Ogden City mall all over again. Good luck Clearfield and Ogden, Mylers coming North.

Anonymous | 10:55 a.m. March 3, 2008

The project is pretty much out of place in anyplace in this state but Salt Lake City. I'm no fan of sticking everything in the state, like the new Broadway theatre, in downtown Salt Lake (and usually subsidizing it with state/county taxpayer money) but at least Salt Lakers have shown a willingness to support with their OWN tax dollars arts and cultural centers. Utah County doesn't even have a ZAP or PAR tax, and even if they did the natural center of events would be "downtown" Provo, not Orem.

Salt Lakers have shown with their support of the new library, the Leonardo, etc. that they're willing to do that by puttng their own money on the line. I wish the rest of us would, because we need more cultural centers than just Salt Lake City.

OremStateStreet | 11:06 a.m. March 3, 2008

Another strange eyesore to the list of unzoned, unmanaged and unattractive State Street of Orem.

John | 1:16 p.m. March 3, 2008

We ate at the Pizza place Saturday night. This whole development is a disaster in my opinion. How could you ever pull out with traffic? This is perhaps the worst eyesore in development history. Somebody obviously knew somebody who got this through the Orem City Council. Just ask people what they think of this development, the economy isn't the real reason this is failing, it would be too embarrassing to tell someone you actually lived there.

Aaron | 2:43 p.m. March 3, 2008

Eyesore! You are on crack? Have you all forgotten about the drug infested trailer park that was sitting there 5 years ago? At that time, this was one of the biggest single developments in Utah. Perhaps you also forgot that is wasn't a cake walk for Myler to get approval from the zoning commission and city council?

To those who criticize: when was the last time you even went to a city council meeting? Did you even vote in the primary elections? (only 25% of you did) When was the last time you leveraged most of your net worth to change the landscape of an aging city (or was it a home equity loan for a new kitchen)?

How, can you possibly be critical? Who cares how long it takes?

Good grief people!
Trailer Park or Upscale shopping and Condos? Duh?!

Funny | 2:57 p.m. March 3, 2008

Even when the local real estate market and economy were rocking and rolling this guy had a tough time getting the funding for the project. I just think he had a vision far too grand compared to the realities. It's funny I called and emailed them a few months ago asking about residential unit availability and nobody got back to me so I moved on. Guess now I'm glad I did.

Venting is all we have | 4:06 p.m. March 3, 2008

Aaron,

I have been to many city council meetings, in three different cities. I really tire of simpletons telling the rest of us, "Well you can't complain because we got to vote" or "You should have gone to the city council meeting when this was decided".

I can't prove what goes on behind the scenes but I have seen many city council decisions that completely disregarded the input of the citizens.

All I can do is savor the natural consequences when these geniuses are able to push through just what they want.

I get to say "Good Luck With That!"

Walter | 4:16 p.m. March 3, 2008

This developer has called everyone he knows for several years looking for funding. I know he has searched hard within the commercial real estate industry for hard money lending. Now we are left with another horrible looking ????? Good luck, I agree with others who are laughing at this mess....

John | 4:28 p.m. March 3, 2008

Amen to the above comment. Apparently Aaron doesn't understand development. You NEVER leverage everything you have and especially on something like this. Just because you can convince someone that you can build it, doesn't mean anyone will want to live there.......what a great place for a Halloween Spook Alley....

Aaron | 5:04 p.m. March 3, 2008

Dear Venting,

Thanks for your honest response. It just seems that many who have made negative comments have very short memories.

I wish there were more citizens like you willing to take some time to attend these civic meetings. Venting is important and I'm glad we have a forum like this to express our opinions.

Regardless of how you feel about local politics and large developers, how can you forgetting the eyesore of a crime infested trailer park that existed a few years ago?

Also, A project of this size and scope is bound to have a few bumps in the road. - especially when the sub prime market collapses. They aren't building a cookie cutter residential home - this is a $100 million dollar mixed-use development.

It is probably best that we have short memories. I'm sure the developers will weather this storm and the naysayers will forget their criticism in a few years as they pull into Midtown village to get a bit to eat.

I have a house in the neighborhood and I am looking forward to having a Kneaders nearby.

Patience is a Virtue | 5:54 p.m. March 3, 2008

I agree with both Aaron and Venting, although I have less direct knowledge than either of them. However, I will comment that, so far, Aaron's comments seem more complete to me.

Patience combined with appropriate accountability, is better than accountability by itself. In my business, when people who owe me cannot pay, yes I resent it but after a deep breath or two I decide carefully whether to cut my losses or grant an extension. I know some of the people (not all of them) in the Midtown Village project. They do not strike me as the type Orem should immediately cut their losses with; rather, they strike me as the kind of people who will make this work. If they have failed to pay their contractors and vendors on time, then yes they should be held accountable. And no, Orem and the contractors and vendors should not be forced to carry Midtown forever. But the Midtown Village people are not asking for forever, just for a reasonable helping hand in the way of extensions.

I wonder if the same people who say Midtown is a bust are the same who said the 2002 winter Olympics would be a bust?

John | 6:57 p.m. March 3, 2008

I have followed this from the beginning, this is a bust....please print this page and refer back to it.....a bust.....this will be in foreclosure...patience does not pay the bills in development, money does. This is the typical Utah County dream that someone had...he should have invested in a juice that heals cancer...

too funny | 7:07 p.m. March 3, 2008

John,

"he should have invested in a juice that heals cancer"... too funny! I'm laughing out loud! Good crack on our crazy MLMs!

Neighbor to Midtown | 7:32 p.m. March 3, 2008

The Midtown project was not planned well from the beginning, and Orem City Council should have seen through it. Certainly, they did not listen to those of us who spoke out against the project at city meetings. But even if the project had been well planned, there is a certain amount of risk a developer takes when undertaking such a project--there are no guarantees. And Orem City should not bail the developer out, which would be a form of corporate welfare. If Orem City does take over the project, perhaps they can turn it into affordable housing for those driven out by the destruction of the trailer park and those who struggle to get into affordable housing.

Even though studies have suggested there will be no traffic congestion if and when the Midtown Project is completed, one only has to try driving down Fourth South and Orem Boulevard during rush hour to discover what a mess traffic will be if the project is ever completed.

I believe the reason the developer had difficulty in funding the project was that it was doomed from the beginning. As for the council members who voted for it, they can be voted out.

Road of Good Intentions | 7:33 p.m. March 3, 2008

I think that the YEA-sayers need to realize that this is just a little bit of Phoenix, Miami, and Las Vegas right here in River City. The desire for "better" things won't bail out poor planning and ignorance of the macro economy.

To Road of Good Intentions | 8:07 p.m. March 3, 2008

Well said!

Oops | 8:35 p.m. March 3, 2008

I hope the stigma that is being created right now for Midtown with reports and opinions like those expressed won't disuade other rational developers and investors from pursuing sound projects here in happy valley. We already have enough bad press from the real wackos that live here. At least, roof inspections for Gunnies and Pep Boys should be a bit easier now.

Ronald A. Young | 10:41 p.m. March 3, 2008

The Real Estate Market Ebs and Flows just like the Stock Market. Only with the Real Estate Market it is a lot messier when it crashes. I got out of Real Estate a long time ago because of the Environmorons. Plas there is more money and less heavy lifting in Direct Marketing. The rewards in any kind of Investment are always subject to risk.Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, good time Nephi has The Blues. Now is when we find out if the marriage was for the Money, or the Honey. Did better or worse include broke. Also if you live within your means this will not effect you.

Jameson | 10:43 p.m. March 3, 2008

Why is the author comparing residential units to commercial units? Seems like a disconnected article. On another note, Midtown Village is in a horrible location. Why would anyone want to buy a luxury condo in the middle of run-down state street?

TOT | 11:23 p.m. March 3, 2008

Oops,

You have a catch 22 there. The "real wackos" as you describe them, are still the ones making the decisions. They don't seem to want to work towards really well planned development. Now you have another boondoggle being planned down in Provo, which they are determined to go forward with. The average citizen is being forced to stuff it or move somewhere else. I would go so far as to say that urban planning in Utah was much superior 100 years ago to what it is now.

Sad Ex Crack Addict | 4:05 a.m. March 4, 2008

I have to agree with Aaron. Regardless of the construction delays, I'm glad the trailer court is gone. When the Orem/Geneva Times was still around, I remember reading about all of the crime news that went on inside that property.

Anonymous | 8:27 a.m. March 4, 2008

All I have to say is this:
1. The trailer park that used to be there had some of the highest concentration of crime in all of Orem city. I am glad that someone took the initiative to do something about it.
2. I believe the project was well thought out to bring some class to Orem and bring more business to the city.
3. The real estate market always runs in cycles. Long term projects will always have to find a way to ride through the low times. Just because the economy has gone done does not make the project, or its developers, doomed to fail.

Anonymous | 8:45 a.m. March 4, 2008

I worked on the construction of this project for a time--it's impressive what Myler has done up to this point and I hope he can still pull it off. For those of you complaining about that west stucco wall with no windows--realize that it is a connection wall. When all is said and done--and hopefully it gets done--there will be another building along that west end that will connect the two current buildings together--sort of U-shaped once completed.

Quit Demonizing | 9:00 a.m. March 4, 2008

Are you all saying that crime only takes place in trailer parks? Are you saying that rich people don't do drugs? It's much easier to demonize a place when you are already predjudiced against the lower income people that live there. I'm sure there were a lot of non-drug taking struggling families living there. I guess it's good to cast the poor out from among us to constuct a monument to strip malls.

Huh? | 9:27 a.m. March 4, 2008

A monument to strip malls? Are you clueless? A project like this is the complete opposite of a strip mall. Strip malls are despised by many because they are sprawling and are typically fronted by a large amount of asphalt parking. They don't utilize the space very well. A mixed-use project list this, however, utilizes central city space very well. It gives those who live or work there a place to eat, shop, or otherwise recreate. Maybe the project is a bit out of scale for Orem City, but a monument to strip malls? Not even close. Stick with your other argument.

Most Like Strip Mall | 10:10 a.m. March 4, 2008

Huh,
It's more like a strip mall than it is like a mall like University Mall. I'll stick with both "arguments" thank you.

Glorified Strip Mall | 10:13 a.m. March 4, 2008

From Wikipedia -

"A strip mall (also called a plaza or mini-mall) is an open area shopping center where the stores are arranged in a row, with a sidewalk in front. Strip malls are typically developed as a unit and have large parking lots in front. They face major traffic arterials and tend to be self-contained with few pedestrian connections to surrounding neighborhoods."

Strip Mall!

Bad Business Model | 10:17 a.m. March 4, 2008

I guess the riverwoods "mixed use" strip mall in Provo is similar. You have housing, some closing small businesses, and a big huge empty building that used to be Copelands Sporting Goods. These mixed use strip malls will be shown to be a very bad business model as the recession gets more severe.

brittmae | 2:46 p.m. March 6, 2008

I wish the developers the best of luck but agree that the site was planned poorly. Who wants to pay for a "luxury condo" in the middle of the sprawling disjointed commerciality that is State street? Mixed use developments work where there is either attractive landscapes nearby (more like Riverwoods) or when the whole development can be more self-contained and attractive within its lot (like Gateway). This is neither. Pawn shop next to a luxury condo. What were they thinking? Big eyes...small stomach.

suzyb | 11:46 a.m. March 7, 2008

Actually this could be great for our economy. It sounds like there are a lot that could close except for lenders, so the demand is there. The property taxes from this could help our county dramatically and the set up is much better than the Riverwoods as the Riverwoods is so scaled down. I hope they get things to work.

Lark | 11:58 a.m. March 7, 2008

This is not really a matter of "the economy killed it" - the economic downturn happened at a good time to be called a good excuse. I'm developing a more reasonable condo project in downtown SLC. Yes, sales are slower than last year - but condos are not taking the hit there that housing is in general. Reason: there is a market. What went wrong here:
1. Greed: Surely they could not have had a prof. economic study that supported this. Way too big, way too dense.
2. Really poor design. The term monstrosity was well used. Orem deserves better and should have asked for it. Of all the new condos up or being planned in SLC, the Gateway is the ugliest - and looks far better than this mass of grey with nearly every "european" cliche thrown together.
3. The desity is WAY out of scale - more hotel than condo. And yes, it is on one of the ugliest streets in Utah, and without traffic planning.
With or without the economy - as soon as I saw the plan I said "good luck". This is all about greed and I don't cry when greed loses.

Don | 7:07 p.m. June 25, 2008

Interestingly enough, I was in Orem, Utah, two weeks ago. The "monster," has potential, even though it appears a bit oversized for the area.

Does the City have a Master Plan for development, or does the wheel that squeaks the loudest get the grease?

Citizens of fairly large cities are going to have decide between urban sprawl and vertical living. In fact, vertical living has great appeal for those who wish to shed the car and live in a walkable community. With the price of gas and CO2 pollution, I suspect more and more people will opt for downtown living now, and in the future.

Why don't the people of Orem stop running their mouths and pull together to see that the project is completed? Work with the City and the Developer and get it done!

Mixed use sites have much appeal, especially for senior citizens who wish to live close to everything. However, the City needs to see that a Master Plan is developed that contains all of the rational components of a sustainable downtown community.

There are 100's of these concepts being developed all over the Country, and the WILL Work!

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