Deseret News | Reader comments: Man files suit against LDS Church, Boy Scouts

Reader comments
Man files suit against LDS Church, Boy Scouts

Mayhem Mike | 7:40 a.m. Feb. 29, 2008

This is a perfect example of a greedy "low-life," with the help of his greedy attorney, blaming the Church for the alleged actions of the scoutmaster. No one in his right, charitable mind could believe that the Church or the Boy Scouts were indifferent or participants in any abuse that might have occurred. What a sad example of an immoral attempt to "make a buck" by using the legal principle of agency to blame innocent parties. "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world . . ."

Ernest T. Bass | 8:13 a.m. Feb. 29, 2008

Time to call the Danites out on that attorney who keeps filing suit.
Mayhem: The church and scouts put the abuser in the position to do what he did. They are vicariously liable, the child certainly has the expecation to be protected, not abused.
This guy will get money although the suit is a little late, they should have done something way back when it happened.

Cliff M | 8:45 a.m. Feb. 29, 2008

Having just taken my BSA Youth Protection Training refresher for the third time since becoming a leader, I am proud to say that there are policies and training in place to recognize and report child abuse, whether sexual or otherwise. The well-known "two deep leadership" rule greatly reduces the opportunity for sexual abuse by an individual leader as alleged in this case.

Comments continue below

I could use some extra money | 10:27 a.m. Feb. 29, 2008

Sounds like this guys broke and so he must have decided to copy and paste the last suit that was filed by the Idaho guy.

media first? | 10:28 a.m. Feb. 29, 2008

Why would this guy go to the media first before trying to settle something (like therapy) with the church? He is not out to heal, he wants money. Very sad to have a legal system in place that allows for misrepresentation like this.

interesting. | 11:50 a.m. Feb. 29, 2008

This story gets one paragraph and it's at the bottom of the list of today's topics. Why even bother printing it? It should be up nearer the top where it can get some real attention.

patrickH | 12:57 p.m. Feb. 29, 2008

Isn't there a little thing called "statute of limitations"? Also, what does this lawyer have against the Church?

Anonymous | 3:27 p.m. Feb. 29, 2008

I don't know if it happened or not or if he's just after money or not but... If his injuries were so "debilitating"... How has he gotten by for the past 41 years since it happened without telling anyone?

A boy scout | 5:57 p.m. Feb. 29, 2008

that is actually messed up that a person coiuld do that to a boy scout of the lds church i mean this is the real church of jesus christ of latter day saints give him a break. How rude

Trumpet man | 3:41 p.m. March 1, 2008

If this individual had said something when the alleged abuse was happening, it would have been dealt with and stopped. Action would have taken place and the child would have had immediate help. The Boy Scouts and the LDS Church are not responsible for incidents they knew nothing about. It is preposterous to believe otherwise. Use your common sense and you will know the truth. If you are being abused -SPEAK UP.......

Jay B. | 9:14 a.m. March 2, 2008

A Young Men's leader is an official representative of the LDS Church as well as an official representative of the BSA. These organizations are
legally responsible and liable for the oversight of their legal representatives. If these representatives commit a crime under color of office, then these organizations are responsible, accountable, and liable.

I not only hope this lawsuit is very successful, I hope many more come to court and are successful to finally send a message to the LDS Church and the BSA that their programs have been seriously flawed; that the leadership of both organizations have been negligent in providing oversight and guidance; that THEY are the organizations that are unethical by taking HUGE sums of people's money (Tithing and Friends of Scouting donations) and providing incompetent, poorly operated programs.

John Lambert | 11:21 a.m. March 4, 2008

I am just surprised that this suit falls within the statute of limitations. If I understand the article, the man alleges he was last abused in 1970.

John Lambert | 12:39 p.m. March 4, 2008

I have to admit I disagree with some of Jay B's conclusions.
There are a lot of levels in this case. First, did the abuse actually occur. This leads to questions of the level of testimony needed to prove abuse.
Second, what cases would make the church liable. The church is not liable for all actions done by church members. Personally I think this liability has at times been extended too far.
The real questions are, Did church leaders have policies to prevent abuse? Were these policies followed and Did the church leaders have any suspicion that the scout master was an abuser?
Unless the church leaders had evidence that this man had abused in the past, or at least had complaints which they ignored, it is very hard to sue them for what happened.
Another question is were rules of conduct in church affairs broken. If these rules were broken either by the Scout Leader or the Bishop in his apointments, can the general church be held responsible.
Another question, at what point does tort liability for religious apointments violate the free exercise clause?

Atheist Al | 10:07 a.m. March 31, 2008

I wish this poor victim well. He is very brave to come forward, and to stand up for himself and others. This has happened too many times in recent history. There have been too many abusers working with children. Organizations must do complete background checks, weed out abusers, and take swift action when allegations arise.

Sexual abuse doesn't fall into the catagory of freedom of religion. If any church protects child abusers in any way, they deserve heavy penalties.

WowPeople | 11:45 a.m. April 1, 2008

I don't see how you can try to blame the LDS church for this.
Yes, they do have policies, but just because some idiot didn't follow them doesn't mean the church is liable.
And you act like the Boy Scouts and the church planned for this to happen, like they KNEW it did.
Why would you spend so much time blaming the Scouts and the LDS church for something that happens EVERYDAY!?!?! This man is just making a big deal out of it because he has a specific people to blame.

Anonymous | 5:08 p.m. April 1, 2008

The LDS Church controls the boy scouts in many regions directly, and many others indirectly.

Anonymouse | 1:33 p.m. April 2, 2008

As a former BSA leader in an LDS sponsored pack, I can attest that the BSA has strict guidelines that when followed properly would prevent this type of abuse from prevailing (Specifically 2-Deep Leadership)

I can also attest that stake primaries often cut corners in the operation of their packs, and fail to follow these basic guidelines to the detriment of the program and the boys involved.

don | 3:39 p.m. April 2, 2008

Well it happened in the Catholic churhes,,it probably or could happen in all churches. It really dont matter who, or what institution it is, it can have pedophiles in it. and yes it is thier fault, they are responsible for the care and safety of thier kids (clients etc.). that are intrusted to them, and they have accepted that when they sign them up.

PaulH | 3:38 a.m. April 4, 2008

I once volunteereed with a local LDS scout group, and although I saw no abuse, I did see one father there whom I knew to be under indictment for child molestation. Thankfully, this man crucified himself at trial, by attempting to be his own attorney, while being represented by counsel. The judge slapped him with 20 years.

There seems to be a lot of sexual issues with a lot of religious groups, and I wonder if religion itself might not be a factor.

THIS case, however, stinks of a desire for money. It should have been looked into in 1967 when it allegedly happened, not 4 decades later. The "repressed memory" craze needs to GO, it's getting quite stale.

Ya know, I suddenly think I've been abused !!! GIMME SOME MONEY !

Bill | 2:42 a.m. April 6, 2008

The LDS Church and BSA can do no wrong?!? Yeah, right. Lots of conclusions here based on a very short story. Probably swept everything under the rug like the Catholic church did.

flonkbob | 12:49 p.m. April 11, 2008

What an interesting list of comments. I'm amazed (not reallly) at how many apparent LDS members (or at least 'supporters') here blame the victim for the actions of predatory adults. Way to spread that christian love folks.

Saying that he 'should have said something', as if that makes it his fault, is asanine and immoral. But then, members of any church (not just LDS) have given up their full humanity and sense of morality in order to let others have control of them...if that's the party line, they'll follow.

How about letting this go through the courts before jumping in to condemn someone who, quite possibly, was abused?

Jill | 1:46 a.m. April 25, 2008

I totally agree with the last comment. Very insightful!!

Stan | 6:26 p.m. May 5, 2008

Churches have always been havens for pedophiles. And the boy scounts of america is a religious institution who openly discriminates against non-believers. Get rid of both of them.

Snoop Dog | 9:34 a.m. May 21, 2008

I am disgusted

John | 4:01 p.m. June 17, 2008

I would like to say that last friday I had my Eagle court of honor. First off, yes. The boy scouts discriminates against so called "non-believers". But what are they not believing in. The boy scouts are in fact the most tolerant group out there when it comes down to it; they will accept literally any religion under the sun as long as a scout can do his duty to whatever god(s) he chooses to believe in. I'm not sure there is another group in the world as tolerant as that. Second, as for the church. Yeah there have been pedophiles there in the past. There's also been pedophiles in schools. Does that mean we should get rid of them too?

However, I do agree with flonkbob in that we shouldn't blame the victim. What i don't agree with is blaming the organizations behind them. Unless you want to start blaming schools or other organizations for the crimes of their members.

Jeff D. | 8:28 p.m. July 20, 2008

Here in the Tulsa Metro Area the Mormons do control the Boy Scouts. It's sick. A Boy Scout shouldn't have to be a Mormon, or even led or "controlled" by such a devious person/organization.

Jeff

Eric | 5:31 p.m. Aug. 20, 2008

I just SERIOUSLY question why it took this person so long to mention this abuse. We're talking about abuse that occurred in 1967! The Beatles! Flower Power! FORTY-ONE YEARS AGO!!!

no_sympathy | 11:23 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

move on

charlya | 9:06 a.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Put yourself in his shoes. Put yourself in the mind of someone abused by a person they thought they should not only love, but trust and associate the message of God with. Can you imagine the impact that situation can have on someone- and the amount of guilt and pain he must be carrying along. I cannot imagine blaming a man for waiting as long as he needed to before coming out with the info. Maybe he tried to move on but was afraid it was still happening to other kids so he came out with it. Following any religion, belief, system or leader blindly and without question will always result in the annihilation of individual morals and rights. Children don't know that lesson and it is up to the institutions that are entrusted with their innocence to make sure they are under the guidance of proper adults. The BS failed to do this, and if I were the church and attaching my name to something- I'd make darn sure I knew EXACTLY what was going on with that organization.

Dervish | 3:53 p.m. Oct. 14, 2008

There is absolutely nothing tolerant about the Scouts. They allow believers in any God to join, and they refuse entry to non-believers. That isn't tolderance, that is good old-fashioned bigotry.

Diego | 2:03 a.m. Oct. 16, 2008

It is all about Money. There are lawyers out there that will take any case no matter absurd if the defendant has lots of money. If this sexual abuse did occur, why take over 40 years to file a lawsuit? Why file the lawsuit in Oregon when the alleged abuse occurred in Idaho? If this is about justice why not file the suit against the alleged abuser and make him pay for his crime? Its all about the money $$$$!!! It is very sad that we as a society must live in fear of these constant lawsuits. We can do better! We can reform our legal system. We can return to a system of reason and justice, where the courts are used for Real Justice and judges rule by logic and common sense.

Religion runs the country | 5:39 p.m. Oct. 20, 2008

When it comes to rules and logic, don't turn to religion, it only screws up your head. For what they say they are going to do and what happens, they should pay more than 5 million. They ruined this mans life. So what is the price on a mans life?

Anonymous | 2:35 p.m. Oct. 30, 2008

Don't you find it interesting, that despite the awful things that happen in this world, sometimes even in Jesus' name (without his approval I bet), that JESUS just doesn't go away?

What are athiests scared of?

charlya | 7:51 a.m. Nov. 6, 2008

I sure hope this wasn't done with Jesus' approval "Anonymous". Atheists aren't scared of Jesus, but thank you for identifying that common misconception. I don't know a single Atheist in fact that has any issues with Jesus aside from the fact that his followers throughout the centuries has twisted his words and teachings to justify racism, sexism, homophobia, slavery, wars and pretty much every other ugly form of hate that exists. No, Atheists aren't scared of Jesus- they're not scared of much when it comes to religion, it just seems they are the only ones able to look at it from a completely separate 3rd party view and notice when things are wrong.

Antirelgious | 12:50 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Are the Catholics running out of child abuse settlement money, so this guy has to come running the the Mormons looking to get his check?

Anonymous | 3:49 p.m. Dec. 9, 2008

and people wonder why atheists think religion is bad

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