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Being a black student at BYU can be difficult
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Lance | 11:03 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
"...struggles some members have with the Priesthood LIMITATION practiced by
the Church." PRIESTHOOD LIMITATION??!! More appropriately known as
Priesthood DISCRIMINATION!! Amy K. Stewart, author of this article, please
don't take us, the readers, for the fools you think we are. Call it like
it is and please quit sugar-coating the inherent (and still existent!) racism of
the LDS Church. As a former bishopric counselor and former member of the LDS
Church, it's insulting to read/hear such inaccurate "niceties" as
was written in this article.
158 black students? | 11:18 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
Are all black students at byu from another country? How many of the 158 black
students are from another country?
Comments continue below
Black man from the south | 12:01 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
It is my understanding that during the ban black men could not receive the
priesthood. Is it also true that no black person was allowed in the temple to
perform higher ordinances? These ordinances are required for exaltation
according to Mormon dogma. Is my understanding of the priesthood ban concerning
the temple accurate?
Oh My Gosh.... | 12:37 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
This article is such a waste of Internet space and bandwidth.
LDS for Obama | 12:48 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
A lot of people are wasting there time here. The only racist remarks I have seen
are by anti-Mormons. Shows who the real haters are. I am LDS, white, and my wife
is Hispanic. My heros are Jimmy Hendrix, Michael Jordan, Martin Luther King Jr.,
and BB King.
There are bad white trash examples at BYU not worthy of the priesthood and you will find them anywhere. I know a lot of African American people who say they are treated better here than anywhere else they have been.
There is a problem here and hopefully anyone who is LDS
can follow the council President Hinkley gave in one of his last talks against racism. It was his entire talk.
There are bad white trash examples at BYU not worthy of the priesthood and you will find them anywhere. I know a lot of African American people who say they are treated better here than anywhere else they have been.
There is a problem here and hopefully anyone who is LDS
can follow the council President Hinkley gave in one of his last talks against racism. It was his entire talk.
And my heroes | 1:35 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
have always been cowboys..only they were black!
Hello World | 1:45 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
Here are facts:
God prevented all women from the priesthood (ask Paul)
God prevented the Egyptians from having the priesthood (ask Abraham)
God let Joshua COMPLETELY destroy non-Israelites...women, children, babies (see Joshua)
God prevented the teaching of the Gospel to the gentiles (see the Gospels)
You people act like it's the church being independent. It's always been God...and HE HAD HIS REASONS. Stop blaming for the past...focus on what is going on NOW...which is ALL NATIONS, ALL PEOPLE, ALL TOUNGES.
God prevented all women from the priesthood (ask Paul)
God prevented the Egyptians from having the priesthood (ask Abraham)
God let Joshua COMPLETELY destroy non-Israelites...women, children, babies (see Joshua)
God prevented the teaching of the Gospel to the gentiles (see the Gospels)
You people act like it's the church being independent. It's always been God...and HE HAD HIS REASONS. Stop blaming for the past...focus on what is going on NOW...which is ALL NATIONS, ALL PEOPLE, ALL TOUNGES.
Judging from these blogs | 2:18 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
Racism is all the way live in the bee-hive!
Realist | 2:29 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
When Is white history month?
Goodbye World | 2:30 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
Hello World:
"God prevented all women from the priesthood (ask Paul)"
Not the same issue. Women have different spiritual roles in the church than men, not claiming that some men are the cursed seed of Canaan/Ham.
"God prevented the Egyptians from having the priesthood (ask Abraham)"
If by that you mean that the Old Testament priesthood was limited to Jews of a certain lineage, you are correct. Quoting it outside of that context is a distortion.
"God let Joshua COMPLETELY destroy non-Israelites...women, children, babies (see Joshua)" True, but what relevance does it have here?
"God prevented the teaching of the Gospel to the gentiles (see the Gospels)" A LIE! Jesus Christ had already visited several Gentile areas, Tyre and Sidon especially (not to mention Samaria) when he met the Syro - Phonecian woman. Christ had also done works for Roman soldiers.
"Stop blaming for the past...focus on what is going on NOW...which is ALL NATIONS, ALL PEOPLE, ALL TOUNGES." It was always ALL NATIONS, ALL PEOPLE, ALL TOUNGES. Ask Luke, who specifically noted that Simeon Niger (Simon the black) was a church officer in Acts. Mormon literature claism Simeon Niger was "an exception due to exceptional personal faith." Right ...
"God prevented all women from the priesthood (ask Paul)"
Not the same issue. Women have different spiritual roles in the church than men, not claiming that some men are the cursed seed of Canaan/Ham.
"God prevented the Egyptians from having the priesthood (ask Abraham)"
If by that you mean that the Old Testament priesthood was limited to Jews of a certain lineage, you are correct. Quoting it outside of that context is a distortion.
"God let Joshua COMPLETELY destroy non-Israelites...women, children, babies (see Joshua)" True, but what relevance does it have here?
"God prevented the teaching of the Gospel to the gentiles (see the Gospels)" A LIE! Jesus Christ had already visited several Gentile areas, Tyre and Sidon especially (not to mention Samaria) when he met the Syro - Phonecian woman. Christ had also done works for Roman soldiers.
"Stop blaming for the past...focus on what is going on NOW...which is ALL NATIONS, ALL PEOPLE, ALL TOUNGES." It was always ALL NATIONS, ALL PEOPLE, ALL TOUNGES. Ask Luke, who specifically noted that Simeon Niger (Simon the black) was a church officer in Acts. Mormon literature claism Simeon Niger was "an exception due to exceptional personal faith." Right ...
Re: Realist | 2:40 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
When is White History Month? Let's see 19 years in school for 9 months out
of the year, I have lived through at least 171 White History Months.
WBM5 | 3:35 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
reply to Kelvin Musanga: I loved your comment!!!!! This attitude applies to so
many things! We can get so caught up in what people say or do when really it
only matters what Heavenly Father thinks!
I try not to put my limits on others and expect them not to put their limits on me.
We need to look past the skin, the deformities, the differences, the oddities, the gender.
Can you imagine standing next to Heavenly Father and saying, "see that black guy over there?" Or "Do you know so and so? You know, she has a deformed leg" or how about, "Heavenly Father don't you think she is totally ugly and those clothes are so gross!"
Love People! All people!
I try not to put my limits on others and expect them not to put their limits on me.
We need to look past the skin, the deformities, the differences, the oddities, the gender.
Can you imagine standing next to Heavenly Father and saying, "see that black guy over there?" Or "Do you know so and so? You know, she has a deformed leg" or how about, "Heavenly Father don't you think she is totally ugly and those clothes are so gross!"
Love People! All people!
DC | 5:16 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
I grew up in Utah and admittedly in a bubble. I was fortunate to have a career
that took me and my family to the southeast where we lived for nearly 8 years.
I learned a lot about my self and my own lack of awareness concerning biases I
held toward people of color. I was taught in my home to treat all people with
respect and love regardless of color and I thought I always did that. It
wasn't until I lived in communities that were multiracial and where I was
not in the overwhelming majority that I began to see my biases manifest
themselves. I'm grateful for those years and the lessons I learned about
myself and the personal bias I was able to overcome and put away.
I cultivated a deep love for people of color both of my faith and of other faiths. I have so many dear friends in the South as do my children. It was a wonderful experience that we brought back to Utah with us when my career brought me back in recent years. I definately see the world through different eyes now.
I cultivated a deep love for people of color both of my faith and of other faiths. I have so many dear friends in the South as do my children. It was a wonderful experience that we brought back to Utah with us when my career brought me back in recent years. I definately see the world through different eyes now.
John Lambert | 5:31 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
This last weekend I had the opportunity to hear Darius Grey speak.
He told the story of Abner Howell. He was a black man who grew up in Salt Lake City around 1900. Once a person, who happened to not be of the LDS faith, told him that as a black he would not go to heaven.
Abner was very hurt to hear this. John Henry Smith (father of George Albert Smith) happened to see him and asked "Ab what is the matter".
When Abner told him, Brother Smith told Abner that was a totally false statement and took him over to his house, puled out the Book of Mormon and read from 2nd Nephi 26.
He told the story of Abner Howell. He was a black man who grew up in Salt Lake City around 1900. Once a person, who happened to not be of the LDS faith, told him that as a black he would not go to heaven.
Abner was very hurt to hear this. John Henry Smith (father of George Albert Smith) happened to see him and asked "Ab what is the matter".
When Abner told him, Brother Smith told Abner that was a totally false statement and took him over to his house, puled out the Book of Mormon and read from 2nd Nephi 26.
John Lambert | 5:37 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
To black man from the south:
In general blacks did not recieve temple ordinances before 1978. However as far as I have gathered the understanding was that at that time blacks did not need temple ordiances for salvation.
The counterargument is that the ordinances can be done for them now. All I can say for sure is that God will not hold any man or women back from salvation because they did not recieve temple ordinances at this time because of their ethnicity. I will also state that no Latter-day Saint who understands the doctrine would claim that such people will be held out of the celestial kingdom.
For whatever it is worth I have attended temple sessions with a black man officiating.
In general blacks did not recieve temple ordinances before 1978. However as far as I have gathered the understanding was that at that time blacks did not need temple ordiances for salvation.
The counterargument is that the ordinances can be done for them now. All I can say for sure is that God will not hold any man or women back from salvation because they did not recieve temple ordinances at this time because of their ethnicity. I will also state that no Latter-day Saint who understands the doctrine would claim that such people will be held out of the celestial kingdom.
For whatever it is worth I have attended temple sessions with a black man officiating.
U Say Goodbye I say Hello | 5:53 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
My point...the LDS BELEIVE God is behind religious cultural exclusions and
eliminations throughout history, with the understanding that God has His
reasons. God doesn�t have to give any
reason�woman,
�cursed�, anti-Israel, or whatever you
say.
Admitting to being "racist" ain't gonna happen, since the LDS (and other Christian sects) are going to say it (exclusionary events) came from God. If they actually believe it came from God (regardless of your opinion)...how can you expect them to apologize and repair?
And where EXACTLY is your Simon data? What do you mean by "Mormon literature"? This is how people get confused...where�s Simon�s genealogy and where is the doctrine?
You know for a fact if blacks had the priesthood in 1830...there would have been a white and a black LDS church. You think he likes the segregation that has gone on? God is smarter that you and I.
You�re kidding on the Gentiles�why in the world was it such a BIG DEAL when Peter and Paul were given the OK? You know they were excluded�for a good reason. NO WAY the Jews and Gentiles could have worshiped together until the barriers came down�same as the blacks in 1800�s.
Admitting to being "racist" ain't gonna happen, since the LDS (and other Christian sects) are going to say it (exclusionary events) came from God. If they actually believe it came from God (regardless of your opinion)...how can you expect them to apologize and repair?
And where EXACTLY is your Simon data? What do you mean by "Mormon literature"? This is how people get confused...where�s Simon�s genealogy and where is the doctrine?
You know for a fact if blacks had the priesthood in 1830...there would have been a white and a black LDS church. You think he likes the segregation that has gone on? God is smarter that you and I.
You�re kidding on the Gentiles�why in the world was it such a BIG DEAL when Peter and Paul were given the OK? You know they were excluded�for a good reason. NO WAY the Jews and Gentiles could have worshiped together until the barriers came down�same as the blacks in 1800�s.
Losers | 6:12 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
Will you guys get over the fact that the LDS believe it was GOD who actually
held back the priesthood...there is NO WAY Mormons can or will apologize UNLESS
they leave the church because they believe their leaders went against God and
discriminated. You�re warring me out here...should be
talking about how BYU handles is cultural challenges. You just want to bash the
church...you won't ever win.
Duh | 6:34 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
If the bashers here actually knew LDS doctrine...there would be
2/3rd�s (no pun) of the comments. THE TEMPLE has, and
always will fix everything...every race, every sin, every miss, everything. God
will not prevent celestial glory to anyone because they were black and died
before 1978. ALL MANKIND MAY BE SAVED...God will give glory to every person who
deserve it...REGARDLESS of race or gender. THAT IS FLAT OUT THE DOCTRINE!
It's Amazing | 7:34 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
It is discrimination to treat someone differently because of the color of their
skin. The Church discriminated against blacks for years - period. How is it that
some within the Church can be upset by that but rationalize continued
discrimination of women and gays? Skin color, gender and sexual orientation are
all god given personal traits that cannot be chosen or changed. And yet we
continue to discriminate and justify our actions by claiming God wants it that
way. A male dominated society encompassed in the early Catholic Church wanted it
that way and we continue that tradition of discrimination by claiming it is what
God desires. It really is amazing what we can allow ourselves to believe and
accept. And it is very hypocritical for some to be angered about the past
treatment of blacks while likely easily spouting justifications for the same
discrimination of others.
awesomeron | 8:04 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
When I questioned my Institute Instructor on the Issue of Blacks and the
Priesthood he informed me "we where right then and we are right now"
Change comes by Revelation, accept it. I accept the Wording of Declaration 2. I
accept the Witness of President Hinckley that he "knows it was true because
he was in the Upper Room when it happened." I do have an issue with some
people and from time to time a Chip. That�s me I have to
get over that. I was in the Portland Temple, and when I got past the door with a
very careful look at my Temple Recommend,then a warm welcome.I went to the
Office and asked if they had Family file on a Black Person. The person at the
Desk looked at me real strange. The person in the back heard me and said,
"yes I do" and proceeded to hand me Two Names. From what I knew where
a Black Mormon Family dating way back. I took them and proceeded to do Two
Sessions. You do what you need to do. Lets Hug, Chill Out and Love one another,
we are to few, not to.
Ronald A. Young | 8:22 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
Maybe I have lived in Hawaii to long and maybe other stuff but my Two Youngest
Children, now 19 and 17 do not see Race. They do not even see it as an Issue,
they just don't see it. They see people as people. That is the way they
where raised. BYUH is a great place because you are not prejudged by your Race.
Over 40 Nations (some very small) fly their flags in the Circle outside the main
Building. The Church owns the Polynesian Cultural Center and more or less the
Town of Laie. The Chain Food Store is both Dry and Closed On Sunday. The Movie
House does not show R Rated Movies. The PCC is closed on Sunday. Vastly Most
people get along. I have had Lunch many times at the BYUH Dining Hall after a
trip to the Book Store or to do a Session. The Students Mix. Its not like little
clicks by Race. I went to a Graduation and although I believed what I was
seeing, I was awed by the site. President Hinckley Spoke people cried. Black
People, White People, Brown People, Degrees in hand getting along. Get Along.
Man | 10:41 p.m. Feb. 28, 2008
you guys are exactly like Robert Redford said..and I grew up around the Mormon
culture in Idaho. Ease things over really good..kinda like how smooth are the
words to make a wrong seem right. Use to hear you call the catholic church and
others the devils church right in front of their members...then talk about this
celestial kingdom. It was always be ashamed of yourself to me as I believed a
different way and I never tried to convert you. So I just didn't bother but
what I did notice was that alot of you were racist, all for a family name and
enjoyed the downfall of others as if it gave validation to your doctrines.And
many of your members were notorious for swindling others out of their life
savings. Don't you remember one of Bush's people in the 80's rip
off of the savings and loans episode ...then walked off scott free,but you
always have a scripture for it. If heaven is ran like Utah ..I don't want
no part of it!
crazy | 8:27 a.m. Feb. 29, 2008
Call me crazy but I'm an active Mormon, have been my whole life, plan to be
the rest of my life, believe with all my heart Pres Hinckley and now Pres Monson
are prophets of God, go to the temple regularly, and yet, I think the ban on
blacks and the Priesthood thing was one big error based on the times. Nobody
has kicked me out for believing that way; nobody has even ever asked me what I
believe about it. That tells me it's not important to my eternal
salvation, so I don't worry about it. Does that make it not an issue
generally, absolutely not. But I get stressed out easily and eliminating this
one issue from my life makes everyday a little less stressful. Maybe we could
all do this a little more and bring some peace to the world.
Frank | 11:48 a.m. Feb. 29, 2008
Thanks crazy!
Margaret Young | 12:35 p.m. Feb. 29, 2008
For anyone interested, the LDS Genesis Group, which was organized by the Church
in 1971 to support members of African descent, meets monthly at 7:00 p.m. Our
next meeting is THIS Sunday, Marcy 2, at 6710 S. 1300 E. (Mormon chapel)
All are invited.
All are invited.
Jay B. | 7:50 a.m. March 1, 2008
The LDS Genesis Group is an odd sort of "auxiliary" organization in
the Church. Why would the Church create an official auxiliary for people of a
specific race when doctrine and public statements all try to claim that we do
not discriminate on the basis of race? The color of a person's skin is not
supposed to matter. We are all one in Christ, no black or white, bond or free,
rich or poor. But the existence of Genesis is contrary to that doctrine. Indeed,
it appears to be a public relations ploy more than anything doctrinal.
to Ronald Young | 6:25 p.m. March 1, 2008
Maybe you lived in Hawaii too long AND you are of a certain racial background so
you fit in. Trust me, if you are white or black in Hawaii, ie a minority, life
isn't always a bunch of hugs and kisses. I grew up there and as a white
boy me and my black friends were not exactly included in the color-blindness you
talk about. It's probably better there because people are of multiple
backgrounds and there isn't as much sensitivity but it definitely still
exists.
Dr. S | 9:54 a.m. March 2, 2008
I remember as a young missionary serving in Chile at the time of
Pinochet�s takeover, walking down the street on countless
occasions and having a soldier or policeman causally point his machine gun at
me. At six-foot one with light brown hair and �clear
eyes�, I was clearly the wrong race in the wrong
neighborhood at the wrong time.
I now understand too well what it is like to be a minority. I could hold bitter feelings because of the behaviors of a few, but instead I chose to lock those memories in the deep reaches of my mind.
Rather, I chose to remember the countless acts of kindness on my behalf by numerous Chileans; those that allowed me into their homes; those that feed me; those that cared for me when I was ill; those that risked their lives for me.
I am so happy for my minority friends at my alma mater. They have chosen to remember the kindness shown to them by the many and have chosen to lock away the memories of the unkind acts of the few. I think they gotten a clue of what it is like to be a real Christian.
I now understand too well what it is like to be a minority. I could hold bitter feelings because of the behaviors of a few, but instead I chose to lock those memories in the deep reaches of my mind.
Rather, I chose to remember the countless acts of kindness on my behalf by numerous Chileans; those that allowed me into their homes; those that feed me; those that cared for me when I was ill; those that risked their lives for me.
I am so happy for my minority friends at my alma mater. They have chosen to remember the kindness shown to them by the many and have chosen to lock away the memories of the unkind acts of the few. I think they gotten a clue of what it is like to be a real Christian.
Liahona | 8:46 a.m. March 9, 2008
Anonymous,
Who do you assume that black students would be stupid? I am black, LDS, and a member of Mensa (IQ 160). I was a National Merit Scholar and currently have a Master's Degree. My son is a BYU student. He passed 6 AP exams and was on the honor roll in the overwhelmingly white private schools he attended before going to BYU. BYU would do well to recruit more minority kids like my son and there are plenty like them!
Who do you assume that black students would be stupid? I am black, LDS, and a member of Mensa (IQ 160). I was a National Merit Scholar and currently have a Master's Degree. My son is a BYU student. He passed 6 AP exams and was on the honor roll in the overwhelmingly white private schools he attended before going to BYU. BYU would do well to recruit more minority kids like my son and there are plenty like them!
Alexandria Kiel | 1:53 a.m. Oct. 25, 2008
ATT: JOHN LAMBERT
I'm from Detroit, MI, and I know Alessandra...it'd be really nice to talk to you and learn where you were...I was in the Grand River Branch - and I think my dad was who you were talking about when you said "one black branch president" because he was for years...and yeah, some comments you made about Detroit were unintentially biased and negative sweeping statements: but your heart is good :-)
You have good intentions and I can see that. You should add me on facebook - I'd love to talk to you more, maybe I even know you...?
I'm from Detroit, MI, and I know Alessandra...it'd be really nice to talk to you and learn where you were...I was in the Grand River Branch - and I think my dad was who you were talking about when you said "one black branch president" because he was for years...and yeah, some comments you made about Detroit were unintentially biased and negative sweeping statements: but your heart is good :-)
You have good intentions and I can see that. You should add me on facebook - I'd love to talk to you more, maybe I even know you...?
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And nothing you have said can possibly justify the LDS Church ("the one and only true church") for having officially discriminated against blacks for over 100 years.