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Being a black student at BYU can be difficult
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RS | 4:36 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
This isn't going to change until the minorities quit seeing themselves as
minorities.
re: Raymond Takashi Swenson | 4:47 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
Great post!
THE REAL UTE | 4:52 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
can you help a brother out! don't feel bad my black sis and brothers. Here
are some facts that are never taught in high school so one must learn them in
college. I am of the ute people, the state of utah finally was the last state to
recognize and allow native americans as citizens to vote in 1954. What this
means is that there were alot of white polygamous allowed to utilize the vote
breaking a law deemed a felony since 1890. Just in the last 8 years a county w/a
native population of 55% was ordered to pick native americans for the jury pool.
This should have been practiced from the Selma, ala. episode. Next a very
observant mormon boy scout was instrumental in the return of one of my
forefathers found in the LDS archives w/in the last 15 years. There also many
historical legal measures that were enacted such as the termination of the Piute
people in the cedar city area..meadows masscre area..put forth by the powerful
utah senators of that time. But in order to overcome prejudicism there has to be
a vigilante effort on all sides.Ignorance no , education yes, ME..WE!!
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 5:06 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
We keep hearing all this hearsay of racisim but no one actually provides any
real proof or evidence.
I am beginning to think that this is just words being twisted, such in the buttars case, in order make people believe it exists.
Some one is a little cold to them or not as helpful as they should and suddenly they think it is racism.
I know there are people who don't care for blacks, and VICE VERSA.
But I have also seen those same people genuinely go out of there way to be nice to them.
I think the real problem is human nature.
We've witnessed in grade school and middle school, and so on and it its this:
When people are different, when they talk differently or act diffently or behave differently,
or dress differntly, etc,
then people tend to treat them differently,
or not knowing what to do, they don't entreat them at all being uncomfortable around them.
There is some fault on the white people, but some blame must fall on the blacks for intentionally distancing themselves from whites in language and behavior and in what they choose as important culturally.
This is not a oneway steet.
I am beginning to think that this is just words being twisted, such in the buttars case, in order make people believe it exists.
Some one is a little cold to them or not as helpful as they should and suddenly they think it is racism.
I know there are people who don't care for blacks, and VICE VERSA.
But I have also seen those same people genuinely go out of there way to be nice to them.
I think the real problem is human nature.
We've witnessed in grade school and middle school, and so on and it its this:
When people are different, when they talk differently or act diffently or behave differently,
or dress differntly, etc,
then people tend to treat them differently,
or not knowing what to do, they don't entreat them at all being uncomfortable around them.
There is some fault on the white people, but some blame must fall on the blacks for intentionally distancing themselves from whites in language and behavior and in what they choose as important culturally.
This is not a oneway steet.
John | 5:11 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
There are good white people and bad white people. There are good black people
and bad black people.
There are good Red people and bad red people
there are good yellow tinted people and bad yellow tinted people.
No matter the skin color there are good ones and bad ones. I have friends of all colors and I enjoy them all.
Are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints not taught the all who die before the age of eight years go to the Celestial Kingdom and there is no difference concerning race, sex or skin color. We are all children of the same heavenly father and he respects us all as his children.
There are good Red people and bad red people
there are good yellow tinted people and bad yellow tinted people.
No matter the skin color there are good ones and bad ones. I have friends of all colors and I enjoy them all.
Are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints not taught the all who die before the age of eight years go to the Celestial Kingdom and there is no difference concerning race, sex or skin color. We are all children of the same heavenly father and he respects us all as his children.
Mike Reid | 5:28 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
I grew up in Chicago and attended a HS that was racially diverse. The 1978
revelation concerning Blacks made for some very interesting conversations with
students and teachers!
I recently read a book by Scholastic about the Birmingham bus boycotts. I would recommend this book to everyone. All children and parents should read and discuss this book together.
The fact is that while Jim Crow laws took over 100 years to be rooted out, discrimination still exists today. This book clearly shows how hard it is for people to change and to overcome long held incorrect views. I was frankly embarrassed by how Blacks were treated in our not so far distant past.
White people don't really understand what our Black brothers and sisters have overcome. It's easy to sit back and criticize things, but we have never faced the challenges they and their parents have.
What Utah needs is for more interaction between Blacks and Whites. Education and interaction help overcome ignorance.
I recently read a book by Scholastic about the Birmingham bus boycotts. I would recommend this book to everyone. All children and parents should read and discuss this book together.
The fact is that while Jim Crow laws took over 100 years to be rooted out, discrimination still exists today. This book clearly shows how hard it is for people to change and to overcome long held incorrect views. I was frankly embarrassed by how Blacks were treated in our not so far distant past.
White people don't really understand what our Black brothers and sisters have overcome. It's easy to sit back and criticize things, but we have never faced the challenges they and their parents have.
What Utah needs is for more interaction between Blacks and Whites. Education and interaction help overcome ignorance.
It BUGS me | 5:34 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
It BUGS me that Africans couldn't hold the Priesthood until 1978 (other dark people could).
Yet, following Christ has been by far the best path in life for me, and doing so within the LDS Church. The temple ordinances absolutely open up my mind and heart, and that is as LDS as you can get.
Yet, the "policy," came through "prophets" and "apostles."
Was that policy of God?
So, those of you who are black and have testimonies, and have had to struggle more than I, how did you get past the issue, how do you see it relating to other issues, i.e., how do you believe, understand and apply the teachings of a body of leaders that are the extension of earlier leaders?
My question isn't about racism today, it's about church leaders. I used to think of the Brethren as minor or lesser-Jesuses, now I think they are closer to major or greater-Bishops. Yet for me, "pick and choose" what I liked or agreed with has be fret with pitfalls.
I am confident there are books and blogs and websites by black LDS members which I'd like to find
i always heard | 6:57 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
the fence sitter concept up in Idaho 70-80's , now I'm the fence
sitter! Plight of the RED MAN! or Indian on the cross so to speak!
wYo8 | 7:14 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
This is neither here nor there just a simple what if. If proir to 1964 (Civil
rights) and 1978 (Revelation on the Priesthood). If the Lord called a black
brother to be a bishop or stake president how would the south handled it both
within and out of the Church. I don't think it would of went over very
well. A Black Bishop calling a white person to be his counselor or whatever
calling. When they couldn't even drink out of the same fountain or use the
same bathroom, etc. The Mormons were hated anyway and it could of been another
stone thrown at them. Personally I think the Lord had to wait for the slave
mentality to be overcome and to let the civil rights movement get going before
President Kimball's revelation in 1978. It was 14 years from 1964 to 1978.
Not a very long time to have a country and a way of thinking to change. We are
still talking about this today. The First Vision was 44 years after the
revolution war. The United States was still in its Infancy. The Lord is and
always will be in charge of his work.
The Brother, not the LDS variety | 7:24 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
Great investigative reporting on this one. Must have had Magnum PI on the case!
Great breakthough I would have never thought there would be racism in Utah much less BYU.Thank you for opening my eyes.
Great breakthough I would have never thought there would be racism in Utah much less BYU.Thank you for opening my eyes.
Gary Newman | 7:33 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
It is really hard for me, being white, to attend the University of Utah.
Maybe you should write a story about it.
Maybe you should write a story about it.
LDS in Oregon | 7:54 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
Serving as an LDS missionary in Detriot (mid-1990s) I served in a branch led by
three Black brethern(High Priests serving in Branch Presidency) who were amazing
individuals, all recent converts. Alma Chapter 13 states that High Priests are
foreordained to be high priests because of their exceeding faith and good works
in the premortal life--this includes our Black brethern. There is no doctrinal
foundation for any inferiority doctrine and the recorded statements and actions
of Joseph Smith should put any such theory to rest. Any statement by this or
that General Autority that implies or states otherwise is not doctrine but
speculation. Remeber--Aaron, Moses' brother and the namesake of the
Aaronic Priesthood fashioned a golden calf for the Israelites--but he is still
an honored servant is he not?
Some Black members of the branch were LDS prior to the 1978 Revelation and had the faith to wait for the long promised day when our Black brothers would hold the Priesthood. That long promised day, foreseen by Brigham Young and later Presidents of the Church occured as predicted in 1978.
The Lord directs the LDS Church and most of you reading this post know it to be true.
Some Black members of the branch were LDS prior to the 1978 Revelation and had the faith to wait for the long promised day when our Black brothers would hold the Priesthood. That long promised day, foreseen by Brigham Young and later Presidents of the Church occured as predicted in 1978.
The Lord directs the LDS Church and most of you reading this post know it to be true.
To Mr. Gary Newman | 7:59 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
You sir are a bigot and will never be able to bring context into your rediculous
statement. Now I understand the content of the article, thank you Gary Newman,
you have helped many understand the underlying issues of racism in the world..
Pure ignorance.
Cleatus | 8:12 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
Mormons being bigoted? Please tell me it is not true!
I beg this article be retracted as it clearly not representative of LDS culture.
I beg this article be retracted as it clearly not representative of LDS culture.
Oblivious | 8:23 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
Racism exists here in Utah as it does everywhere else. I was born and raised in
Idaho and am now horrified at many of the expressions or comments I have made in
my life. In my defense I can only plead ignorance. I have never made a racial
comment with malicious intent and wish I could take back many of the insensitive
things I have said not realizing the offense that they could cause to
another.
Where I grew up it was almost exclusively white. Not being raised around people of other races, I would hear expressions; with no concept of their derogatory nature. I blindly repeated these sayings without understanding their meanings.
As I grew up and moved to various areas of the world, I was called names or treated differently. I remember walking to work in Washington, D.C. and having a man call me a honky and tell me to get out of their neighborhood. I didn't even realize that I was working in a predominantly black neighborhood prior to that event. I looked at his comment as just ignorance and forgave him.
I hope that we will all have thicker skins and just let it go.
Where I grew up it was almost exclusively white. Not being raised around people of other races, I would hear expressions; with no concept of their derogatory nature. I blindly repeated these sayings without understanding their meanings.
As I grew up and moved to various areas of the world, I was called names or treated differently. I remember walking to work in Washington, D.C. and having a man call me a honky and tell me to get out of their neighborhood. I didn't even realize that I was working in a predominantly black neighborhood prior to that event. I looked at his comment as just ignorance and forgave him.
I hope that we will all have thicker skins and just let it go.
LDS in Oregon | 8:22 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
Those who posted earlier stating or suggesting that we should just get over past
discrimination of Blacks are forgetting the fact that the Lord himself
"discriminates" or makes distinctions between races and other groups
of people throughout the scriptures. There is no reason for Blacks to drop the
issue; however it is imperitive that others drop racist and ignorant actions and
statements. Without discussing the past, how can we do that?
The suggestion that: "There is some fault on the white people, but some blame must fall on the blacks for intentionally distancing themselves from whites in language and behavior and in what they choose as important culturally. This is not a oneway steet..." as posted above is misguided. If the previous "Anonymous" poster is suggesting that Black Americans all act the same, that is obviously not true and is a racist comment. That there is a ghetto culture in America is true but it is not new nor is it uniquely Black. See the book "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" by Thomas Sowell, a Black professor at Stanford University.
The suggestion that: "There is some fault on the white people, but some blame must fall on the blacks for intentionally distancing themselves from whites in language and behavior and in what they choose as important culturally. This is not a oneway steet..." as posted above is misguided. If the previous "Anonymous" poster is suggesting that Black Americans all act the same, that is obviously not true and is a racist comment. That there is a ghetto culture in America is true but it is not new nor is it uniquely Black. See the book "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" by Thomas Sowell, a Black professor at Stanford University.
Margaret Young | 8:44 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
For "It Bugs Me"
The questions you ask about Blacks who joined the Church prior to 1978 are answered with some remarkable footage (filmed from 1968-2008) in _Nobody Knows: The Untold Story of Black Mormons_. If you do a google on the Foursite Film Festival, you can find the listing quite easily. I am personally extending an invitation to you to join us at the screening.
I simply can't reply to many of these comments. Some are appalling.
The questions you ask about Blacks who joined the Church prior to 1978 are answered with some remarkable footage (filmed from 1968-2008) in _Nobody Knows: The Untold Story of Black Mormons_. If you do a google on the Foursite Film Festival, you can find the listing quite easily. I am personally extending an invitation to you to join us at the screening.
I simply can't reply to many of these comments. Some are appalling.
Perspective | 8:54 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
Some have commented that some recent 20th century LDS Church leaders were
against the Civil Rights Movement because they believed it was being promoted by
communists.
THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT WAS A NECESSARY AND LONG OVERDUE DEVELOPMENT.
But, it is also true that communism was an existential threat to this country and the western world in general. And one of the ways that communists operated was to TAKE ADVANTAGE OF LEGITIMATE GRIEVANCES and TAKEOVER LEGITIMATE SOCIAL AND POLITICAL MOVEMENTS to further their ends.
Understanding that this was being attempted, sometimes successfully (and still occurs today, whether the threat is communism, Islamofacism, nazism, or whatever), DOES NOT MAKE THESE GRIEVANCES AND RELATED MOVEMENTS WRONG; BUT, it can make their support more problematical. As the "famous" John Kerry once said, it's "nuanced."
Other Nuances: one African-American LDS member is supposed to have commented that, while you could once be hung in the U.S. South for being black, you'd've been hung faster if you were black Mormon.
It may help us to understand why inspired (but imperfect) human beings had what today seem to be wrong-headed ideas, if we understand the complexity and nuance of their times. We've already forgotten the Cold War.
THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT WAS A NECESSARY AND LONG OVERDUE DEVELOPMENT.
But, it is also true that communism was an existential threat to this country and the western world in general. And one of the ways that communists operated was to TAKE ADVANTAGE OF LEGITIMATE GRIEVANCES and TAKEOVER LEGITIMATE SOCIAL AND POLITICAL MOVEMENTS to further their ends.
Understanding that this was being attempted, sometimes successfully (and still occurs today, whether the threat is communism, Islamofacism, nazism, or whatever), DOES NOT MAKE THESE GRIEVANCES AND RELATED MOVEMENTS WRONG; BUT, it can make their support more problematical. As the "famous" John Kerry once said, it's "nuanced."
Other Nuances: one African-American LDS member is supposed to have commented that, while you could once be hung in the U.S. South for being black, you'd've been hung faster if you were black Mormon.
It may help us to understand why inspired (but imperfect) human beings had what today seem to be wrong-headed ideas, if we understand the complexity and nuance of their times. We've already forgotten the Cold War.
I know Jesus is! | 8:57 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
But I hope the brethren are taking note of this blog!
Mike | 9:04 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
Good to see this kind of discussion. It leads to better though processes and
enlarged understanding. Utah needs that very much.
Not that I'm bigoted against Utah. It's just that the history of the majority has led them to see themselves as a people apart, and that apartness has included an anti-black religious policy.
So, how does a large group of white people at head office that sees themselves as "chosen" or "a people apart" or who considers themselves "born to lead" handle the propensity to be exclusive rather than inclusive?
First by being aware of their exclusive proclivities, next by being open to discussion about them, then by being open to the proposition that change may be good for them and then by remembering that they are not perfect yet.
But remember that Christ is and he loves, atoned for and is prepared to exalt all people who come unto Him, be they black, white or brindle.
Keep up the discussion and be open to the opportunity to change. I am impressed.
Not that I'm bigoted against Utah. It's just that the history of the majority has led them to see themselves as a people apart, and that apartness has included an anti-black religious policy.
So, how does a large group of white people at head office that sees themselves as "chosen" or "a people apart" or who considers themselves "born to lead" handle the propensity to be exclusive rather than inclusive?
First by being aware of their exclusive proclivities, next by being open to discussion about them, then by being open to the proposition that change may be good for them and then by remembering that they are not perfect yet.
But remember that Christ is and he loves, atoned for and is prepared to exalt all people who come unto Him, be they black, white or brindle.
Keep up the discussion and be open to the opportunity to change. I am impressed.
Gene in Orem, Utah | 9:21 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
I'm overwhelmed by each and every one of your comments. I feel no
different after reading each of your comments, than I did before reading them.
I was raised by good parents to love everyone and respect everyone. If God is
no respecter of persons, then why should I be any different. I love everyone
the same. I am saddened to think that a hatred for any one person or people
even exists in the World, but I know it does, and it won't change until we
change how we view one another. Love comes from the Heart, and we need to show
that love by the way we live, act, think, and speak to each other. I love BYU.
I've made wonderful friends here from all over the World: India, Nigeria,
Uganda, Haiti, Jamaica, Tonga, Samoa, Peru, Brazil, Mexico, and so many others.
I love them and respect them and their Cultures. I've worked for BYU for
the past 17 years and I've been blessed and enriched by these wonderful
friendships. I have chosen to look for the good in all people and I encourage
everyone to do the same.
Anonymous | 10:08 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
well thats utah for ya, self centered people
What is the "Gospel" | 10:12 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
What actually is the "Gospel"? So many practices, policies, teachings
- whatever you want to call them - have dramatically changed over time. Is it
simply the atonement of Jesus Christ and the charge to love one another? I
assume it must be more than that given the constant efforts to convince others
to join the Church. Sometimes it truly is hard - particularly for someone with
an interest in Church history - to know what truly encompasses the
"Gospel". What one must have considered the "Gospel" in say
1875 had to be a very different concept than today. Sometimes I wish the history
of the "Gospel" was as consistent and unchanging as one would assume
truth would be.
Anonymous | 10:27 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
911 really opened my eyes to people of all colors. I felt anger for what
happened and a deep and abiding love for everyone in the states. I saw people of
all colors come together. I truly am impressed and humbled that minorities or
anyone for that matter can stay true to the princibles of the gospel. I was
thinking the other day, if I could have someone as my side as a friend who would
it be and I thought of a friend of mine name Victor, from South America. He was
truly a friend and a person of great character. I grew up in a town with no
minorities so I admit it is a little hard to relate. I have offended people just
trying to be their friend. If people could see past their predjustices and open
themselves up they may find a precious relationship blossom.
Anonymous | 10:25 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
I feel that it's articles like this that promote racism. I live in a small
community with few African Americans, but I see them no differntly than anyone
else in the community. I judge a person by their actions and the kind of person
they are, not by the color of thier skin which is how most of Utahns do. I am
sure there are still some racists out there, but they are definately in the
minority. Let the racism claim go...
Ronald A. Young | 10:32 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
How Black do you have to be to be Black at BYU? Of the 158 Students how many are
Black Americans and how many are Blacks from other Countrys? I ask this because
the experience is totally different. The Church has The Genesis Group for a
reason. Blacks tend to have issues that other members do not. If you are the
only Black, Mexican, Indian, person at Stake Conference in a sea of White faces
even if you know for the most part that you are accepted and loved its still an
experience. Gladys Knight's Son Joined the Church and Glady's Knight
came along not long after. Oran Hatch wrote 2 songs on her Many Different Roads
CD. Blacks need to join in with the Genesis Group there is strength in numbers
and fellowship. This is why BYUH is such a cool place. People sometimes say
things that they do not really mean. They just do not think.
LDSCajun | 10:36 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
This is a delicate issue especially here in the South. I don't understand
why the priesthood was restrictive to people of certain ancestry prior to 1978.
I say "ancestry" because there were polynesians who were ordained who
were darker than some blacks. Whatever the reason, for some reason there has
always been some restriction. Only the Levites could hold the priesthood in
Moses' time which would leave out most of the present day church
membership! I believe this is a test even those not of african descent. Even
as a polynesian, it makes me squirm to think people think I belong to racist
church. Nevertheless, I have faith that we will know the reason in the
hereafter. Until then, maybe we should focus on what really matters: we all have
the opportunity to hold the priesthood, lets just use it serve others instead of
dwelling on speculative reasons why some could not hold it in the past.
Clark Roger | 10:42 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
To Cleatus | 8:12 p.m. Many of these posts are perfect examples of people
attempting to put Latter-day Saints in box, telling them what they believe and
what they think. It's an easy way for some to point their hateful fingers
at the Latter-day Saints.
Just look at the post by Anonymous | 10:08 p.m. Here is someone who attacks Utah, but doesn't even have the guts to put their name. And people like this accuse Latter-day Saints of staying secret about their feelings. WHAT HYPOCRISY!
Only one more example of someone demanding that Latter-day Saints be more Christian, when they themselves have no plans, whatsoever, of returning the favor.
Just look at the post by Anonymous | 10:08 p.m. Here is someone who attacks Utah, but doesn't even have the guts to put their name. And people like this accuse Latter-day Saints of staying secret about their feelings. WHAT HYPOCRISY!
Only one more example of someone demanding that Latter-day Saints be more Christian, when they themselves have no plans, whatsoever, of returning the favor.
l kreger | 11:18 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
All i can say to the black population in the churchis that the bible tells us
all that we must endure to the end. we have all the tools we need.
now we have to use them.
now we have to use them.
Bob | 11:35 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
A good example of the acceptance of blacks occured in my family a number of
years ago, and not that long after 1978.
A new family was attending our branch and my then 16 year old daughet dated their 18 year old son a couple of times. He was the son by a previous marriage of the wife, who came to us with concern and told us that the boy's father was black.
My wife in an immediate reaction said: "But he's a member of the church . . ."
it was the rlegious brotherhood not the race that counted.
A new family was attending our branch and my then 16 year old daughet dated their 18 year old son a couple of times. He was the son by a previous marriage of the wife, who came to us with concern and told us that the boy's father was black.
My wife in an immediate reaction said: "But he's a member of the church . . ."
it was the rlegious brotherhood not the race that counted.
Anonymous | 11:53 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008
Racism at BYU? I don't believe it. This is has to be one of the most
tolerant and diverse universities in the country.
Anonymous | 1:20 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
the problem is that very few members of the church live in neighborhoods with
African-Americans. The overwelling percentage of members in the U.S rather grow
up in Utah, rural communities or the burbs. Utah has what 2,3% african
americans, so of corse utahans don't understand african americans. I grew
up in the inner city of Las Vegas and i was always around minorities, heck as a
white dude i was the minority most of the time. And now i am living in a mormon
community and i am always shocked about the comments i hear being made about
race amongst members of the church. I thought as members of christ's church
we accept people for who they are and not jugde people because they are
different especial on the color of someones skin
Gary Newman | 2:41 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
I am discriminated against for being white. I go the the University of Utah.
It is tough there for a white student.
I would like to sell my story to deseret news. Who should I talk to?
I would like to sell my story to deseret news. Who should I talk to?
Miskky | 2:43 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
The ability to �discriminate�,
recognize differences, is an important part of human survival behavior.
Awareness of group differences as ethnicity, race, culture, economic, political,
religious, etc, plays an equally important role in human existence. Turning a
virtue into a vice is "natural" for many.
One definition of racism is: hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. Realistically, can racial intolerance be eradicated from the human experience? Not likely!
No matter what is attempted in the present, can the past be changed? Is attributing current day mores to the past �just� or just �revisionist history�? The past doesn�t need to be changed. Only now, today, needs to change.
Disputes arise from differences. Fear and hatred are used to keep disputes alive for control and benefit. History�s great example is Hitler, a master in the use of fear and hatred to achieve evil designs. This example plays out today all over the planet. It can be seen in the comments about this article.
The human race has come so far, learned so much. Sadly it still falls prey to those who choose and use fear and hate!
Judge not, condemn not, forgive. Pure Love casts out fear and hate!
One definition of racism is: hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. Realistically, can racial intolerance be eradicated from the human experience? Not likely!
No matter what is attempted in the present, can the past be changed? Is attributing current day mores to the past �just� or just �revisionist history�? The past doesn�t need to be changed. Only now, today, needs to change.
Disputes arise from differences. Fear and hatred are used to keep disputes alive for control and benefit. History�s great example is Hitler, a master in the use of fear and hatred to achieve evil designs. This example plays out today all over the planet. It can be seen in the comments about this article.
The human race has come so far, learned so much. Sadly it still falls prey to those who choose and use fear and hate!
Judge not, condemn not, forgive. Pure Love casts out fear and hate!
Kiley | 2:55 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
If you visited the University of Wyoming - a very similarly "white"
but decidedly much less "Mormon" school - you would find much the same
racial tone. I believe that these thoughts have much more to do with pure
ignorance of unknown and misunderstood cultures than with any specific church
teachings, doctrines, or myths.
Think before you speak | 4:36 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
Being a Native American Mormon I have to share my viewpoint. Alot of these
problems stem from Anglo people being "ignorant" (uninformed). When I
was a teen I used to get asked silly questions like "so do you live in a
teepee". For one thing, the tribe i come from did not live in teepees. I
noticed that after these young people went on missions, they came back having
different attitudes. they were able to get out in the world and really see how
life is outside of utah. It works both ways, I could ask silly questions about
Mormons too such as "how many wives do you have". So it's a
matter of educating yourself and thinking before you speak. How would you feel?
My husband always asks, "what would Christ do? Maybe we all need to ask
ourselves that question when we have a decision to make. And in defense of BYU,
they make a huge effort to recruit minorities. Check out the website
multicultural.byu.edu. Thank you
bob | 7:10 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
I am impressed by the character the minority writers have displayed. Keep it
up!
Cecilia | 7:26 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
I'm Hispanic, and I attended BYU. From the social point of view, it's
true, people in Utah are very close minded and they don't really open open
and embrace those of us who are different to them. However, BYU as an
institution was definitely the best thing that happened to me as far as
education goes. I'm now attending a different university to get my PhD
(outside of Utah), and I have worked in other universities as well (again
outside of Utah) and the tools, environement, and education quality BYU offers
can't be found anywhere else.
Sympathizer | 8:01 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
I remember being taught the fence sitter theory in the early 70's. I never
felt comfortable around African-Americans on my football team when asked me
about Mormons and the priesthood. Times are different now, thank heavens. I
hope we can all be sensitive to all black's needs at BYU. I think a lot of
kindness is warranted.
To Perspective | 7:55 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
I commented earlier about communism and civil rights. I agree that we need
perspective when we consider comments of those who came before us (as surely
those ahead of will when they quote us). BUT not all church members or leaders
felt this way. Hugh B Brown was known for being a strong supporter of the civil
rights movement and was in the first presidency. Others supported it as well.
If we really believe as you say men are imperfect then we must also accept that
they do make mistakes and that we don't need to make excuses for them.
It's ok for them to be wrong. In fact, many who leave the church are those
who are sorely disappointed when they cannot justify or create an excuse for the
actions of a church leader rather than accepting the explanation that this
leader was wrong or made a mistake. It happens and we should accept it.
And I have to admit that I did not get your reference to the cold war. It sounded a little like you were saying a vote for equality is a vote for the commies but I'll give you the benefit of doubt.
And I have to admit that I did not get your reference to the cold war. It sounded a little like you were saying a vote for equality is a vote for the commies but I'll give you the benefit of doubt.
John Pack Lambert | 7:57 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
What of Jane who went to the L. Tom Perry special collections to read what
they had on her father. Sister Carter who persisted in the faith after her
husband had died and her children had denounced her for becoming a Mormon.
I see nothing wrong in any of these actions of black people. The one encoraging thing to me is that the guy who spoke ill of fellow children of God and admitted to hating them is old, I hope no one of the current generation feels this way.
The first testimony given in my singles ward last Sunday was by a back sister.
I remember a white guy I met at BYU who was trying to see if I knew his brother-in-law who had served his mission in Detroit. He pointed out this borther-in-law was black. I have hope, but I still must admit that the only time on my mission I had someone refuse to go visit someone was when an old white guy refused to go visit the recently baptized black children of a white mother.
I see nothing wrong in any of these actions of black people. The one encoraging thing to me is that the guy who spoke ill of fellow children of God and admitted to hating them is old, I hope no one of the current generation feels this way.
The first testimony given in my singles ward last Sunday was by a back sister.
I remember a white guy I met at BYU who was trying to see if I knew his brother-in-law who had served his mission in Detroit. He pointed out this borther-in-law was black. I have hope, but I still must admit that the only time on my mission I had someone refuse to go visit someone was when an old white guy refused to go visit the recently baptized black children of a white mother.
GANSTA RAP | 8:27 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
This is a very funny, scarry, enlightening blog. Just last weekend there was a
black transient man beaten to death in the city park in Page,Arizona. Before
that he had stayed in Blanding, Utah during the fall months. People showed
concern for him from law enforcement to the average citizen as he was out in the
open. He was harmless and so people let him be. Then he relocated over to page
and was beaten to death like no human being should be. What gives me some hope
in this SE utah area that does have a history of civil rights issues is that the
fact that there are a great deal of people of all ages, walks of life, races who
abhor what happened to this man..and ask the question "could I have done
more? And those are the kind of question with the right kind of spirit..that
need to be asked when human issues are addressed be they whatever so these
things don't happen in our communities. Not once did I hear any deragortory
comments such as the ones I have read on this blog and for that I commend this
community as it gives me hope.Native!
Sam | 8:35 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
I am amazed by how many LDS respond to their Church's obviously racist
history with descriptions of how racist other Churches and people are or have
been. As if somehow it justifies it if "everyone else is doing it".
I thought we had grown beyond 2nd grade moral reasoning and recognize that just because everyone else is doing it doesn't make it right.
My mistake. Apparently we in the LDS Church are encouraged to reason like 7 year olds and make excuses rather than take responsibility for our mistakes.
The racist restriction of the priesthood for over a century was a mistake. We as LDS need to respond responsibly, acknowledge that mistake, condemn racism in the present as well as in the past, and apologize profusely for it.
There is no other way to be honest about it. Attempts at doctrinal or historical explanation and rationalization only dig us deeper into delusion, error, and falsehood, and place increasing burdens on ourselves as a people as well as on our fellowman, especially those with more heavily pigmented skin than our own.
I thought we had grown beyond 2nd grade moral reasoning and recognize that just because everyone else is doing it doesn't make it right.
My mistake. Apparently we in the LDS Church are encouraged to reason like 7 year olds and make excuses rather than take responsibility for our mistakes.
The racist restriction of the priesthood for over a century was a mistake. We as LDS need to respond responsibly, acknowledge that mistake, condemn racism in the present as well as in the past, and apologize profusely for it.
There is no other way to be honest about it. Attempts at doctrinal or historical explanation and rationalization only dig us deeper into delusion, error, and falsehood, and place increasing burdens on ourselves as a people as well as on our fellowman, especially those with more heavily pigmented skin than our own.
Kurt | 8:43 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
I am white and I converted to the LDS Church when I was 27 (34 now). Even prior
to joining the Church, it has always been my personal crusade to help man see
each other as equals...brothers and sisters. This is due to some amazing people
I have met in my younger years who have changed my life for the better and were
incredible friends.
One particular friend (Derrek) who happened to be black invited me into his close circle of friends (who were also all black) to go to the local fair one day. Right in front of my face, his friends were ragging on him for bringing a white guy. Derrek harshly stood up to each one of them and defended me...and IT FELT GOOD!! Long story short, we ALL became very good friends over the years.
No matter what race we are...minority or not, we owe it to ourselves to defend each other. I mentioned my conversion earlier because I am happy to say that NO other organization that I have come across believes in equality more than our Church. It brings joy to my heart.
One particular friend (Derrek) who happened to be black invited me into his close circle of friends (who were also all black) to go to the local fair one day. Right in front of my face, his friends were ragging on him for bringing a white guy. Derrek harshly stood up to each one of them and defended me...and IT FELT GOOD!! Long story short, we ALL became very good friends over the years.
No matter what race we are...minority or not, we owe it to ourselves to defend each other. I mentioned my conversion earlier because I am happy to say that NO other organization that I have come across believes in equality more than our Church. It brings joy to my heart.
BYU Alumni | 8:50 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
I graduated from BYU w/in 3 years, had I listened 2 comments such as "do
you run track?" I would have probably left shortly after. Everyone has
prejudices, whether or not you choose to accept them. The problem arises when
one refuses to acknowledge such existence and continues to hypocritically play
"Christ-like" (which contains a subjective interpretation). I would
not trade my experiences in Utah, especially the education I obtained from BYU.
They are all priceless. It takes a determined individual to overcome the
struggles in such a place, which can be anywhere else. Some do not mean to
offend others and yes taking offense is a choice. I personally know everyone in
the article therefore I understand the context. I think everyone wants to be
treated like a human-being. This is impossible because by the end of an
interaction with most white people I encountered in Utah I had a confirmation
that I was BLACK. BYU produces intellectuals, educate YOURSELF,I refuse to make
that MY duty for those who say "no need to be angry because they don't
know." Ignorance isn't BLISS. It is sad to say I am no more defensive
but rather immune to racism.
Henry Jensen | 9:17 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
I am so tired of people not paying attention, that I had to comment.
Please! Distinguish between institutional racism and individual racism! When you do, you recognize that the policy of the LDS Church to withhold the priesthood from blacks was a racist policy! There can be no argument on that point.
It has nothing to do with individuals being comfortable around people of a different ethnic heritage, nor how �nice� we are to one another. Hence, your personal experiences with friends are irrelevant. They add nothing to this discussion except reveal that a number of individuals are personally racist.
For over a century the LDS Church officially discriminated against blacks for no other reason than their skin color. This is incontrovertible. It was wrong. That other organizations did it does not make it right, especially if we have �modern-day revelation from God!� We should have known better, and hundreds of years before the 1960�s Civil Rights movement (which the LDS Church did NOT support).
Please don�t any more of you tell about your friend who is black, or the black girl you dated in high school, or that you like rap music, so you are not racist!
Please! Distinguish between institutional racism and individual racism! When you do, you recognize that the policy of the LDS Church to withhold the priesthood from blacks was a racist policy! There can be no argument on that point.
It has nothing to do with individuals being comfortable around people of a different ethnic heritage, nor how �nice� we are to one another. Hence, your personal experiences with friends are irrelevant. They add nothing to this discussion except reveal that a number of individuals are personally racist.
For over a century the LDS Church officially discriminated against blacks for no other reason than their skin color. This is incontrovertible. It was wrong. That other organizations did it does not make it right, especially if we have �modern-day revelation from God!� We should have known better, and hundreds of years before the 1960�s Civil Rights movement (which the LDS Church did NOT support).
Please don�t any more of you tell about your friend who is black, or the black girl you dated in high school, or that you like rap music, so you are not racist!
John Pack Lambert, SH Mich | 9:49 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
It was actually Janae and not Jane who I met at Special Collections. I just
misspelled her name.
Joe | 10:26 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
Actually, the scriptures mentioned above are misunderstood and not racist. We
arrogantly assume that the translations from an ancient time and an ancient
language translates exact. This is not the case. Darius Gray and Marvin
Perkins lay all of this out very nicely in the Blacks in the Scriptures DVD. It
is a must if you're going to understand these issues. It should be taught
from General Conference and in all of the classes of the Church.
Joe
Joe
Cultural tradition | 10:31 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
I think that this is a wonderful way to communicate with each other and help
others "see" into our individual past experiences. We don't all
walk in the same shoes. Each of us have different experiences that make us who
we are. And the Lord intended it to be thus. We all, no matter race, culture,
economic status, whatever, have something to offer the Lord to build His kingdom
here on earth.
With that said, we are a product of our times. We are a by-product of our past. We are fortunate to live in a time that has broken barriers that have stood between cultures since the time of Adam. We know things that our forebears did not know because of the culture and times that they lived in. There has been prejudice and false beliefs of others on the earth since the beginning. That is Satan's job. And continues to be his job--to take away our divinity as sons and daughters of God. To make us feel less than who we really are. I think of the Jews and how they treated the Samaritans. They would literally walk completely around their land to avoid rubbing elbows with them.
With that said, we are a product of our times. We are a by-product of our past. We are fortunate to live in a time that has broken barriers that have stood between cultures since the time of Adam. We know things that our forebears did not know because of the culture and times that they lived in. There has been prejudice and false beliefs of others on the earth since the beginning. That is Satan's job. And continues to be his job--to take away our divinity as sons and daughters of God. To make us feel less than who we really are. I think of the Jews and how they treated the Samaritans. They would literally walk completely around their land to avoid rubbing elbows with them.
Carol P. Warnick | 10:54 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008
If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is so racist as some say they
are why do they send missionaries to all parts of the world. My husband and I
served a mission in Cambodia. We were what some call a "minority"
there but love was what erased any differences. We are all different from each
other but it's those differences that make us each unique and special. We
need to accept what we each have that is special and feel good about ourselves
because we are all sons and daughters of a loving Heavenly Father. If we believe
that nothing that anyone says or does can make us feel inferior.
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