Deseret News | Being a black student at BYU can be difficult

Reader comments
Being a black student at BYU can be difficult

231 comments | Read story

Actually... | 9:27 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

If white folk want to know what it's really like to be the minority, all they need to do is spend a few months living in Hawaii. I lived in Hawaii for two years and fit in well mostly because, being half mexican, I'm very very tan, have black hair, and picked up the local dialect fairly fast.In Hawaii, whites only make up about 27 percent of the population (actually making it a big minority) whereas the rest of the 73 percent population is Asian, Pacific Islander, or mixed race (mostly mixed race i.e. japanese-filipino-hawaiian person). Race is a social construct. Utah, as hard as it is for you to here, racism is alive and well here in the intermountain West.

kendo | 9:26 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Many comments here reinforce the message of the article. In other nations there is a different experience of a diverse church membership, which it appears to me may be lacking from some "heartland " members experience or rather lack of experience of people from different nations and cultures. If someone says "I don't mind black people" but in the next sentence says "but I wouldn't want my son/daughter to marry one" that is wrong and whether you can absorb the word racism or not that is racist thought and behaviour. There is in every country overt and covert racist thought and behaviour.If we are trying to be Christ like we need to work on loving people not remaining in the acquired or taught attitudes of the past. BYU is a microcosm of a much larger human issue but hopefully a beter place for people to work to better themselves than most.

I Welcome Diversity | 9:36 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Great article! What a positive approach. Being offended really is a choice. People in general, here in Utah, do not mean offense. And even if they do, their agenda should be ignored (I've lived in the biggest KKK state. Utah isn't that bad). Don't give those people the time of day. No one can take away our happiness, unless we let them.

Being in the minority does mean being less understood, which is hard. I've been in both the majority and the minority, and yes I prefer the majority, but the human experience is meant to challenge us no matter what. As people come to know those in the minority better, understanding is inevitable. What a welcome opportunity it is to meet and learn from people with varying lives from our own. Being in the majority presents the challenge of not being ignorant to or forsaking the opportunity to understand the needs of the minority.

I'm grateful the LDS Church's doctrines are not racist, nor have they ever been. God knows what He is doing. Different races will always be a part of our existence. How we handle those differences will be a challenge. Diversity in culture is great!

Comments continue below

It happens in UT | 9:30 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

I grew up in Ut County for 30 years of my life. I can tell you from first-hand experience, racism is alive and well in happy valley.

I think a challenge the Church faces is that the public facing leadership is all white, and has always been that way. Administrators at BYU are older and are also white (for the most part). The running joke was outside of the Utah Jazz, there are no black people in Utah.

Even though I am not black, I was often called the "N" word, beaten up, pushed around, etc... My family was discriminated against by BYU administrators for many years. I don't think that things are all that different today unfortunately.

The good part is that my testimony is not effected by the actions of some uneducated and bigoted minds at BYU and in Ut County. The article above is a pretty clear representation of that, and they are only talking about the black community...what about mexican, indian, native american, etc.?

I look forward to the day when those people who treated my and my family unfairly will get a wake up call.

Spanky | 9:39 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

A better question is....why would any black student want to go to BYU?

Blair G. | 9:34 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Get over racism. As brothers and sisters and children of god, I did not create our color combinations either, black, brown, white, or purple, and neither did you. Give the Creator credit for creating us with an unique identity, which includes our skin. The Lord does not apologize for what he does in or outside the LDS Church and neither do members of this church have anything to apologize about. The church is still the Kingdom of God on Earth with Jesus Christ the chief cornerstone. I do not believe that we have the right to second guess his purposes for any of us.
Feeling weird in a predominently different culture with your skin standing out is not a issue of racism, but simply an issue of insecurity. Get over the racism issues.

CougInColorado | 9:48 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Coming to terms with the Church's past sometimes requires that we understand that we can believe in and sustain the prophets and leaders as such but still respect that they are/were imperfect men doing their best within the context of history.

Every modern, forward-thinking, sensitive disciple of Christ should shudder and cringe when he or she sees or hears of racially insensitive comments made by early church leaders. But, they should also bear in mind the time and context in which it was spoken and be patient. Our attempts to understand and explain that should be no different than any Christian's effort to understand and explain any of the Bible's "racist" teachings from the time that Adam was given the commandment not to mix his seed with the unbelievers, or Israel with Babylon, etc.

I'm a white BYU grad and can't help but admit that seeing African-American or other students of African descent did often make me wonder what sport they played. I apologize if ever through my body language or actions that caused discomfort, but please know that I feel like your presence enriched my experience and that the reaction more the novelty than anything else.

Craig | 9:48 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

The LDS Church got its racist views from the Bible.
The Old testament is full of passages where the Lord has commanded his people to not intermarry with other specific races. Even Jesus hesitated to help a woman but then showed compassion because of her great faith

See Mark Chapter 7
26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the childrenï¿½s bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the childrenï¿½s crumbs.
29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.

It was God that barred the Priesthood from the Cannanite Race. Not Man.

RockOn | 9:43 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

I'm 59 and have lived and attended Wards and Branches in NoCal, SoCal, AZ, WA, NB, OH, IL, VA as well as having attended wards and branches in England, Ger, Russia and Australia to name a few of the more than 60 countries.
My conclusions on race:
Mormons have been VERY bigoted. They have informally taught the "sitting on the fence" nonsense. They have also parroted the horrible creeds of the Catholic and Protestant preachers of the 16th, 17th, 18th and even 19th century that said -- from East to West, North to South in America and in Europe and many other portions of the world, that the black man was inferior, didn't have a soul, and (as our early constitution said) was NOT a full human being.
LDS members have gotten much better. McConkie made some foolish statements on race, but Pres. McKay corrected all of them by saying the priesthood stand was a "practice" not a "doctrine." Why? The white man just wasn't ready.
We're a bit more ready today and I wish Corbitt and the other faithful Saints of African Heritage all the best. I count many among my dear friends.

RockOn | 9:47 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Brigham Young made some very ignorant and offensive remarks. He was certainly influenced by the world view on race at the time, and the Lord let it stand. (Judge him by the Moses standard when he lost his temper and struck a rock or the Paul standard on his ignorant statements about women.)

Others labored under the culture of the day. Good people 99% of the time, but sometimes ignorant and hurt others. My home teacher in Arizona in the mid-sixties watched on our TV when he first arrived at the race marches in Selma and other locations and remarked, "Those people are just going to have to learn to be patient." At 14 I impetuously attacked him saying, "There is no way I would stand for such treatment nor would he so why should they?" My parents, I'm told had turned their heads away so as to not let the HT or me see them laughing at their nutty son. I did get scolded after he left for disrespecting my elders but both parents let me know that I was right. Dad was in the military and the US military has led the way on civil rights.

Bubba | 9:48 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

I have a black friend who remarked recently that he was mad because of things that happened over a 170 year ago. Told him he was going to be mad for a long time as the people involved are pushing up daisies and I wasn't one of them. He calm down since then. I don't let him take me on the guilt trips that so many of his race pull of white people. You're in, you're accepted, why keep baiting people?

RockOn | 10:06 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

To DudeMan:
People got these "sitting on the fence" ideas in trying to justify the "practice" by trying to reach for doctrines. There was an awful book called something like "The Negro and the Priesthood" that had a whole litany of silly reasons including Egyptus, Ham stories, and on and on.

I really am not condemning these people. They were products of their times just as Paul was when he justified making slaves obey their masters.

Modern revelation is essential but will rarely, if ever, outpace the abilities of the free agency of the people at the time. The Israelites were only given a partial dose of the truth and they had a hard time with that and the Lord had to let them stew for another 40 years before taking them the next step.

RockON | 10:05 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

To Light:
Preachers of all faiths from the 1600s to the 1800s quoted from the Bible to ridicule blacks. Don't be so one sided.

It's also good to try and figure out what is meant by ancient words. "black", just like the word "faith" have many usages, some paradoxical. In 2 Nephi they describe the people as becoming "black"... meaning what? Certainly not their skin color. It wasn't black. It referred to their countenance. No racial slur was intended and NONE should be taken.

Be nice. Hatred is all around. Let's keep it away.

John Lambert | 10:16 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

I am saddened there are only 158 black students at BYU. That is not many more than when I started at BYU in 1999.
SOAR is a good progam, but I think it is too borad based. I think there needs to be a program aimed specifically at black students.
There are lots of people at BYU who make racially insensitive remarks. The one that gets my blood boiling the fastsest is those people who assume all black students are there for sports. That is definantly not the case.
I think some people need to dig up President McKay's statement on how there were no neutral people in the war in heaven.
I wish change would happen faster. I wish the increase in black members was one of major change. I think BYU needs to be more proactive.

Stan Zielinski | 10:18 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Anybody who believes Mormons are not biggoted should read the comments here.
"get over it."
"quit whining."
"quit talking about it."
Are allthe typical Mormon M.O., sweep the issue underthe rug and hope they goaway overtime instead of really reasolving the problem.

You can't sweep scriptures, official declarations, official statements madeby so-called PRophets underthe carpet.
All of these statements still stand and are still a problem. Seminary, institute and BYU religion teachers all feel at liberty to repeat the same racist myths they were indoctrinated with and as long as they feel at liberty to indoctrinate the next generation with bogus 19th Century racist myths, those of us with a conscience feel compelled to clearly debunk those myths, from the outside, since doing so from within a racist institution, just validates the institution.

Those African American appologists for Mormon Racism, like Darius Gray, just further institutionalize racism in the Mormon church by making people less sensitive to what ought to be offensive to anybody with a conscience, regarless of their skin color. That racism is not offensive to most Mormons, is testament to how far Mormonism has to go to catch up with the rest of society.

John Lambert | 10:19 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

To dronda,
That was false doctrine you were taught in seminary. David O. McKay specifically denounced it. Just because something is taught in seminary does not make it true.
People need to read Elder McConkie's staement on how all speculation on the issues of blacks and the priesthood before the revelation have been wiped out by the power of the revelation.

human race | 10:13 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

There is only one race - the human race.

but lets remember the majority of church members are not white!

C.J. | 10:24 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Did you ever hear about the burning of Watts? That was because the "mere contact" myth was used to justify desegregation. They thought, very naively, as many of you do, that if you just get everyone together, then understanding will happen! No, it doesn't work that way. That is why riots ensued. There must be more. There must be inter-racial power differentials and dependencies. Whites must be able to see blacks in power and leadership positions, and must become dependent on them, the way they depend on Church leaders in power and authority. Nothing will change until blacks are promoted to positions of power and authority in the Church leadership - a member of the quorum of the 12, for instance.

So long as the leadership are lily white, the Church will not be "home" to very many blacks.

Mr Froggie | 10:27 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

When the Mormon church lost its founder, there was split over who should lead the church. When they redacted the plural marriage bit, there was another split. But when they changed policy on blacks and the preisthood, the dissent was almost non-existant. It was the most well received of the big changes because deep down mormons are not hateful, just misinformed.

Blendo | 10:26 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Some of these comments are ridiculous. Why is it that so many here have said the LDS church is/was racist? What about some of the oddball questions Mitt Romney had to weather about the same thing? People questioned how he could be a member of such a racist religion.

Here's the interesting point. Blacks were treated as lesser people EVERYWHERE...not just the LDS church! Blacks were sold by other blacks as slaves. Some black slaves even had black owners. They were an indigenous people that were exploited. Not just by LDS. Not just by Americans. This was a worldwide problem.

Yet, we have people on here clamoring that the LDS church is racist. Why? Because of remarks made a LONG time ago. If anything, the church has worked hard to reverse the effects of racism and I applaud them for it.

John Lambert | 10:31 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Re: Kimberly
Just wondering where you grew up. I would love to move there.
I don't think we have any blacks in bishoprics here in my stake. The Detroit Ward once had a black bishop, but he is dead now. The ward is now a bunch of branches. There is at least one black branch president, and there is a black member of the high council. The singles ward I go to has at times approached being 10% black, but we only have about 40 members so that is easy to achive.
When I graduated from high school there was one black person in my graduating class. All the black members of my ward at that point were under ten and adopted black children in white families.
My younger brother at the same high school will probably have about 30 blacks in his graduating class of 300+ people, still only 1%. There is one black lady in the ward I grew up in, the families with black children were moved out of the ward by a boundary change. The ward also had a missionary who was black for a time, and so there is some change. It is slow though.

Utah needs help | 10:27 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

How is the state, and for that matter, members of the church, so racist? I was planning on moving back to my home state, the beehive state, but I don't think I want to be around such intolerance. I'm white, so all you know, and I'm not actively looking to find racism in most of these comments. But all one has to do is read it and you'll see it. Quit blaming others for taking offense when they react to such racially insensitive comments. I pity those that are so blinded by prejudice. NO WONDER UTAH IS THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE NATION

JenM | 10:35 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

To the person who responded to my post, my point was that unless you are a small minority you couldn't have a valid opinion. Since you were a small minority, my guess would be you could sympathize with other minority groups. However, I do think discrimination due to race is different than that directed by religion. For starters, religious beliefs are a choice, race is not. Also, it is easier to conceal personal beliefs than it is your race. I have a good friend who is Native American and Mormon who grew up in Georgia. She dealt with both kinds of prejudice. However, she has said that discrimination because of her race was more prevalent and mean-spirited. I don't think any kind of discrimination should be tolerated though. It is indeed caused by ignorance and fear.

John Lambert | 10:38 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Re: Kimberly
I am sorry people are inconsiderate. There was one Saturday when I was at BYU that the Deseret News had a front page article about Thurl Bailey and his white wife, and the Church News had a front page article about a black LDS couple in Kansas.
On the other hand I was looking through the Joseph Smith manual and even in their current church member photos most people were white.
I at least tried to always dance with black girls at stake dances. This is how I came to know Michelle Isaac, the first person I ever knew who had moved from Detroit to Southfield, which in turn was the first indication I had that 8 mile was no longer the racial divide.
I also have found memories of talking with Janae, a black girl from Atlanta, as we were both in the L. Tom Perry special collections reading room waiting for the materials we had ordered. She was going to read an interview with her father who was one of the early black church members in the 1980s.

John Lambert | 10:35 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

The only man I baptized on my mission who was ordained to the Melchezidek Priesthood before I returned home was black.
I wish I could be all positive. However I have to admit that I also met church members in Las Vegas who figured their homes value would crash once a black family moved in next door, yet they claimed they were not racist.

Yes, you're a bunch of whiners! | 10:35 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

I know what it's like to be a part of a tiny minority, and I know what it's like to be subjected to discrimination based on race (threats, vulgar comments left on my desk anonymously at work, being denied an apartment because I wasn't the predominant race, etc.). I even had some of it at church, where there were some members of my ward that thought I wouldn't be able to teach the Gospel Doctrine class correctly because I wasn't the same race as the rest of them.

My conclusion?

That's life. I have been highly successful during my life, specifically in the context I described above. (And no, I didn't come from a privileged background, but a rather horrific one.) Right in the middle of the worst of the discrimination! How successful would I have been if I had started whining about the unfairness of it all? Oh, maybe I could have been a professional victim like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, but instead I decided to focus on the truly important things in life, thicken my skin, and be a grownup.

Life's not fair. Life's just life. GROW UP AND DEAL WITH IT! That's what adults do.

John Lambert | 10:44 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

To Kimberley:
Actually after reading your second statement about where you grew up I am not as sure if I would like it.
I think here in Metro-Detroit there were always multiple levels of division. For a long time most of the black members lived in the city while the white members and the Asian and Hispanic members, at least in my stake, were in the Suburbs. In Detroit it is sometimes hard to know if the division is City vs. Suburb or black vs. white, because sometimes something that is one masks itself as the other.
I have to plead guilty of often assuming that black members are converts. I have know some who are not, and I try to assume that converts and I have views in common. I will try to be more loving and open.

Anonymous | 10:42 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

BLack Student Union? Bet everyone would scream if we had a White Student Union at school.

Patrick | 10:48 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

What we see is the LDS Church still dealing with its own (racist) history that had its roots in doctrine. That is tough to erase - until doctrine in changed.
The current attitudes towards blacks in the LDS Church will always be conflicted until issues dealing with the pre-existence are solved.

John Lambert | 10:46 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

To Kimberley,
I think your comments are right on. My favorite memory from BYU is when Jaquie told me she thought all the white people were out to get her. I felt she was a bit overreacting, and I think she knew that it was not really the case, she was just trying to express how hard the change was from majority black DC, where even most of her ward members were black, to BYU where she was the only black person in all her classes and her ward. Actually though why I liked her statement so much was that she told it to me, a white guy who my racists first zone leader on my mission described as "the whitest guy he knew".
I guess I figured that feelings, even of fear and distrust, when expressed are less potent.

Linus | 10:47 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

God is a god of order. The blessings and privileges of the gospel will go to all men, but in the order God chooses. The order He chooses is not a reflection of God's favoritism or of ethnic superiority.

Read your Bible and your Book of Mormon. You will learn that Anglo-Saxons weren't first in line. "The first (of Israel) shall be last, and the last shall be first." There are verses that explain that Israel are the only ones who will lay eyes on The Christ; whereas Gentiles must be satisfied with only the visitation of the Spirit.

As an Anglo, I do not feel inferior to Israel or rejection, knowing that my folks and I had to wait our turn, or are denied visitation of The Son. I will be thankful for the visitation of the Holy Ghost, and wait for the hereafter to behold the face of the Savior.

If you think the Church represents racism, you should attend a ward in Aba Nigeria (as I have) and feel first-hand the love of God and the brotherhood of man. "by this shall men know ye are my disciples, if ye have love one for another."

Hmmm | 10:55 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

I was one of 2 Mormons at the east coast college I attended. Before you say, "You don't stick out" try going to a place where drugs, alcohol and sex are the menu every day. I did stick out and I was different. But I chose to attend shool there and never complained. I tried to educate people about my religion. I suggest the same approach here and understand some people are just jerks, whether they are white, black whatever.

Gary | 10:57 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Below are just a handful of comments from past church leaders regarding African Americans, and I can assure you that these statements are NOT "Folklore" but sadly are true:

ï¿½Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own speciesï¿½ï¿½
(Joseph Smith, Jr., January 2nd, 1845, History of the Church, volume 5, pages 21-218)

ï¿½Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so. The nations of the earth have transgressed every law that God has given, they have changed the ordinances and broken every covenant made with the fathers, and they are like a hungry man that dreameth that he eateth, and he awaketh and behold he is empty.ï¿½
(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, volume 10, page 110)

John Lambert | 10:59 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Re: Kimberly post 4,
You are right on. I have known blacks who were very friendly. Here at Wayne State, in the heart of Detroit, my friendliest class mates tend to be black.
I have gone on dates with multiple black church members, both in Utah and in Michigan. Well, actually there is only one black lady I have been on a date with in Michigan, but there is one. I don't doubt that some people are not as open in this respect. I probably could try harder and be a better friend to people around me.
I just wish articles like this would not be tunred into heydays by the anti-Mormons.
I have a quote from the 1950s. ''Inter-racial marriage is no sin" by Spencer W. Kimball.
The saddest day in my life was when the Caulford's moved out of our stake. They were the only couple I ever knew who were both members where the husband was white and the wife was black. They even had a daughter who was just about old enough for me to date.

Adrian | 11:00 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

As a convert raised in California, I was apalled to hear fellow missionaries in the MTC use the N-word. I pressed them on it and learned that it was mostly out of ignorance that they used the term (MTV I guess).

It really would be great for more of our church leaders to take the lead in educating members on this.

re: light | 11:08 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Those teachings are acknowledge, that's why they are in the scriptures. You haven't revealed anything. In addition you personal interpretation of blacks being a condemned race is hate speech against mormons. Never, never has the church taught they are condemned. Salvation has always been offered to members of that race in this dispensation (big word meaning specific time period). You can't find one instance since 1830 where a sincere African American desiring baptism has been denied, no where. Your accusations are evil at best.

Dave M. | 11:14 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Quoting from the same Conference address referenced in the article, President Hinckley said: ï¿½Racial strife still lifts its ugly head. I am advised that even right here among us there is some of this.ï¿½ If believe that he was then the Lordï¿½s prophet, I do not see how we can now question that there are racism issues left to resolve. Many of the commentators have recounted their own experiences with racism. Surely, they cannot all be wrong. It may be that there are some shrill voices on this issue (mostly outside the church) that seek to create strife on this issue - to tear down rather than to build up. But that does not take away from the real experiences of our brothers and sisters. Going back to Pres. Hinckleyï¿½s talk: ï¿½Brethren, there is no basis for racial hatred among the priesthood of this Church. If any within the sound of my voice is inclined to indulge in this, then let him go before the Lord and ask for forgiveness and be no more involved in such.ï¿½ I suppose the call is for us to search ourselves and to be doubly sure we are not engaging in anything like this.

CALIFORNIAN | 11:09 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

1) Utah is less diverse, which means more people are ignorant of how to interact with different racial groups.
2) Many Utahns get their information from the media (blacks calling each other n*gger, NAACP-the CP stands for Colored Persons).
3) There is a big difference between African Americans and visiting Africans. Just because someone doesn't know how to interact with someone from Africa, doesn't mean that they have a biased against ALL blacks.
4) I bet a lot of white people would have identical experiences attending a Historically Black College/University or living in an area where less that 1% of the population is white. People in homogenous areas have less exposure (and are therefore more ignorant) to other types of people (be that race, religion, culture, languange, etc.)

this better get posted! | 11:09 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Racist doctrine is why i left the church. read the quote below. if god is unchanging why was he racist in 1954 and is not now? Or was an apostle wrong? either way it severly discredits the church.

Mark E. Peterson A MORMON APOSTLE said this in 1954

"Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood.... This Negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in their lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa--if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory. "

John Lambert | 11:10 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

I understand a little of what blacks are feeling. On two occasions I was walking through neighborhoods in Detroit where I may have been the only person to walk through all year.
Once a group of teens questioned me on where I was going. That seemed odd, but it was fairly friendly.
Another time a black guy told me flat out to not walk that way again. I am not sure why. He may have thought I was a white guy looking to buy drugs because that is what causes most whites to go to some areas of Detroit. Or he may just have felt that his street did not need any new pedestrians, or who knows.
The point is that I thought of both of them as racist, and even if they were not I think I understnad a little of what blacks go through. Except for blacks it is policemen who follow them and pull them over and ask them where they are going. It is store clerks who trace their steps to make sure they do not steal anything. People who have real authority that is.

As a life-long member... | 11:15 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

of the LDS Church who grew up in SLC, my first introduction to blacks was in basic training in Ft. Polk, LA. It was also their first intro to a white Utah LDS guy. There was awkwardness and discovery on both sides. Probably to be expected. In the end, there were white guys and black guys I respected and those I didn't. That they were white or black was a nonissue. Seems some want to keep it an issue for reasons other than getting along. And then there are those who are just idiots.

Re: Rockon | 11:23 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Hi RockOn,

I am not attempting to show any type of hate. I am only showing what is truth. When it is written in the Book of Mormon that blacks are of the seed of Cane, then the simple truth is that in the Bible and in the Book of Mormon blacks are depicted as a lower species of humanity than whites. Also, I am definately not one sided, I believe Christianity as a whole has done a huge disservice to what Jesus's true intentions were and are. Jesus was about spreading love and the men that wrote in the Bible also put their opinions in the texts. Religion has then taken Jesus's message and addapted it to their teachings. This is why their are over 2500 Christian religions in the world.

To Light:
Preachers of all faiths from the 1600s to the 1800s quoted from the Bible to ridicule blacks. Don't be so one sided.

Preachers that would riducle blacks during any time period are not sharing Jesus's message.

Love Light

CJem | 11:23 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Commentators such as those posted above ignore the fact that racism is and always has been pervasive throughout American culture and history. Other countries have their own versions of racism. Catch up with the rest of society? What society is that? The racist folklore among Mormons reflects the racism in American culture generally. Have you read the US Constitution or Huckleberry Finn lately? Have you looked at the Indian reservations that were created in the 1800s? How about the civil rights struggles since the 1940s? Mormons are people of their times. As we speak, Americans are facing for the first time in our history the real possibility of a woman or black president, and some people aren't ready for that. Many Mormons, like many Americans, were influenced by the civil rights movement, and that opened the way for the policy change in 1978. We have made progress but there is room to improve, and I refer to all Americans, not just Mormons.

Re:John Lambert | 11:24 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

John Lambert you are the biggest racist here. I can see you hate more than anyone else on this page. I am white LDS and dated black girls and married a Latina. I don't care for BYU. BYU is an itch to the LDS faith. The church is true and all anti-Mormon literature is full of lies. I discovered the people who were protesting in front of the Temple last year were a white supremacist group. You are every bit as extreme as they are. The church is true and BYU is false like you.

Sam Hampton | 11:32 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Living in NY, I think those of you in UT who complain that Utah has too many racists might themselves benefit from traveling out East to realize that racism has many forms, and that there are plenty of racists out here. Having attending BYU, I know that there is plenty of racism there, but often it is out of ignorance, as there is little exposure to those of color. Racism here is much more muted but it certainly exists. As for those of you who are critical of UT--it reminds me of the time in 70s and 80s when people would complain about the anti-smoking polices at the SLC airport, claiming that it was Mormon religious bias against smokers, only to discover that anti-smoking policies at other airports, such as LAX, were much stricter. Utahns--give yourself a break. Its good to be self-critical, but don't assume that just because something is not Mormon (or Utahn), it must be more enlightened. It just isn't true.

Grow up | 11:33 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

I believe you would hear similar comments from the characters represented in this story at the majority of universities in this country. Despite the antagonisitc voice of many in this reactionary forum, Utah is hardly different from other states in the union.

For myriad factors, the majority of African-Americans feel slighted in the way they are treated in this country, it's not just limited to the "bubble" of Provo or Utah as a whole. The only action we can take is to individually attempt to make all members of this community feel as close to comfortable as possible.

If you lean extreme on either side of this topic, it's time to grow up and become a productive member of society.

a question ? | 11:32 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

This question goes out to those who have stated that The LDS Church is racist.

Does the LDS church baptize, ordain, call, and endow only one race?

Can you be a racist Church if you believe all races are able to obtain "Exaltation"?

If Exaltation is available to all races that says it all. The highest, most glorious level of existence is available to all. That is all that needs to be said!

John Lambert | 11:38 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

To Anonymous at 8:48:
Getting people to come to BYU is not about who they accept as much as who applies. Most applicants to BYU (about 70% or more) are accepted.
It is not that BYU is rejecting hundreds of black applicants, it is that blacks are not applying.
I knew people who were involved in SOAR. They had no plans to go to BYU before that. I applied to BYU in large part because my mother had gone there.
For many black church members they will be the first member of their family to go to college. If like so many they live in Detroit, Atlanta or DC and have no family members in Utah it will be hard to go there.
I came from Michigan to BYU, but I always had relatives in Provo or Salt Lake City. There were always other members of my ward there. If you come from an inner city branch in Detoit or Brooklyn, you may well not have other people you know at BYU. That makes it much harder.
If someone goes to SOAR they will have those networks that will make things work for them.

John Lambert | 11:44 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

More on minority recruitment:
Many black church members are recent converts. They may have been planning on going elsewhere to college. If BYU sends out some minority recruiting officer to the area the person may say, "well, BYU is worth a chance."
The other thing you ignore is the horrible condition of many inner city schools. Detroit schools do not worry about people going to college, and definantly not about them taking the ACT or SAT. They just hope to get their grad rates high enough to avoid more charter school competition, and keep drop out rates in high school low enough to avoid falling below 100,000 students.
Most graduates from the school system will go on to the community college. These may be bright students, but they are often not prepared in all they need for college. SOAR is a good program, but I am not sure it is enough.
Part of me almost thinks the church should start prep schools in some key urban areas, such as DC, where the schools are horendous. This will allow students to start measuring up so they can get into BYU. I doubt it will happen though.

Re: a question | 11:41 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

What a great point! Bitter anti-mormons will pull verses out, site quotes, tell stories all to paint the LDS Church as racist. But, will they explain that all blessings and promises, even the highest of all-exaltation is indeed available to all races? NO, they will leave that out. All "Mormons" are going to do if you go to an LDS church is teach you that you are entitled to all the blessings, ordinances, and heavenly states possible-through Christ. They will call the same doctrine that enables you to have "Celestial Glory" , hate full and racist. All you have to know is that we believe you are entitled to all blessings regardless of your race.

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.