Deseret News | Reader comments: International Baccalaureate program not un-American

Reader comments
International Baccalaureate program not un-American

dale | 12:47 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Our daughter received her IB diploma while we were stationed overseas. The program was extremely rigorous and challenging. As a result, she was awarded over 40 semester hours of college credit upon enrolling at BYU-Idaho and graduated with her BA in two years. BYU (Provo) is also very generous with awarding college credit for IB participation. The IB is the best college prep curriculum going. The program rewards hard work and challenges students to the max - sounds pretty American to me!

dw | 1:28 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Our daughter participated in the IB and it paid huge dividends. The program was both rigorous and challenging and transformed her into an excellent student. Her IB degree allowed her to receive over 40 semester hours at BYU-Idaho upon enrolling (BYU-Provo is similarly generous with the awarding of college credit for IB work). As a result, she graduated with her BA in two years. The IB promotes hard work, service, and high achievement. The critical thinking skills taught in the IB makes it the best thing going in secondary education today. Sounds pretty American to me!

Johnny can't read . . . | 6:49 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

. . .because Miss Marple can't teach.

But she has tenure, a strong union, and is in a state where the voters are too stupid to try something better, so not only is Johnny doomed, but so are the next generation of public school inmates.

The GOOD public school teachers will do their best to make up for the deficiencies of the bad ones, but it's a losing game.

Comments continue below

confused conservatives | 6:47 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Can Dayton and Stephenson be any more conflicted? They demand world class math standards then let Gayle Ruzicka fool them into believing world class means anti-American conspiracy.

This is what our leadership is? If Gayle says so it must be true?

Jack | 7:23 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

An education program does not have to be IB to be anti-American. There is plenty of it throughout our current educational system. Shortly before he left the Bush administration as its press secretary Tony Snow made the observation that the average Iranian was less anti-American than the average US college professor. If it does the things the DMN says it does, without the corrosive anti-freedom & anti-personal responsibility and pro-big government bias that we see today then I am all for it.

Timj | 7:24 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Interesting. Sounds like people who know it love it, and ignorant legislatures, who haven't taken time to really study it, fear it.
Maybe it's time to get more intelligent lawmakers who know how to actually study the issues.

Dave | 7:43 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

What does it matter if kids don't learn anything as long as they 'feel good' about themselves?

Big Dave | 8:22 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

I have a family member who is involved with the State Board of Education and the Deseret News has been VERY generous in their report. When the subject of socialization in the IB program was raised, the lawmaker that made the "un-American" comment claimed that the Swiss were un-American and that "socialism leads to communism". The word is "socialized", not "socialistic" or "socialism". Perhaps a bit more education in GOVERNMENT and ENGLISH (perhaps this time as a second language since it seems that they don't speak it now) would be of benefit.

I'm not sure what planet this legislator is from, but those who vote for someone this ignorant should be ashamed. Between this gaff, Buttars' racism and who knows what other stupid and ignorant behavior that has been exhibited so far by our legislators, is it no wonder that people are fed up with politics to the point that they don't particiate in the process? Sadly, it's been my observation that thte best and brightest aren't running for elected office. They're doing their level best to stay away from this circus. If all a voter to choose from are idiots like these, we're in trouble.

Joe Moe | 8:23 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

How sad. Try to find someone who has been through the program, administered the program, taught the program, or had a student go through the program -- try to find one person who actually knows what they are talking about who will say that this program does not have a lot to offer.

It may not be the silver bullet, because there is none; but it is a valuable program that is right for a lot of schools and students.

Darin Menlove | 8:49 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

I believe there is more to Margaret Dayton's agenda: Keep kids dumb and numb so they will continue to vote for legislators who pledge their allegiance to the most un-American and immoral agenda of them them all - the Queendom of Gayle Ruzicka.

Roland Kayser | 10:01 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

The majority of Americans know nothing of the world outside our borders and precious little about our own country. These people are apparently threatened by anyone who does, and seek to deny a world class education to our youth. Another example of the facinorous, fissiparous, fallacies of the far-right.

Jud | 10:08 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

So I went on-line and studied what the IB anti's have to say. The anti's are the same extreme right wingers that obsess about Commies getting into your water supply. Essentially, they don't like the fact that the IB committee has endorsed the UN Declaration of Human Rights. Well, so have most of the major churches, every government that belongs to the UN (including ours), etc. Leave it to the local Republicans to oppose human rights as anti-American.

KVC | 10:47 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

I believe all judgments about the program should be held until you become very familiar with the program. I live outside of Pittsburgh, PA, not a very conservative area, and the IB program was defunded in one of the best districts around. Arguments from both proponents and opponents of the program should be heard. There are many parents who have had their children in the program here in PA and have not approved of its teachings. There is an element of a united world government to the teaching.

readerMom | 11:00 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

I was one of the first students to begin the IB program at West High nearly 20 years ago. It seems amazing to me that not only is the program a great addition to the regular cirriculum, it has been around for a long time as well. I doubt the the schools could have been churning out radicalized unAmerican students for that long without it coming up before. I wish the legislature would look into policies before they decide to kill them on a whim and a rumor.

Privatize | 11:10 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Our national education system is broken, with no fix in sight. Millions of students drop out or finish high school each year with 3-4th grade reading and math skills.
The only chance our students have to get a good education is for the public school system to be disbanded, and privatized.
Fat chance, when the national education association has the most powerful lobby in our country, so if you want to educate your child send them to a private school or home teach them.

Private will work? | 11:26 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Ask Salt Lake District about privatization. They tried to privatize just one function of public schools a few years ago, the transportation of students. It failed miserably. The contractor wanted out half-way through the year since they could not sustain the job at the rate they bid. Imagine if all schools and all functions of education went private. I think everyone would be in for a big surprise.

Thomas | 1:57 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008

What's ironic about the arguments back and forth between typical conservatives and liberals about the advisability of imitating supposedly "socialist" European countries, is that with the possible exception of health care, many European countries actually have freer, less "socialist" economies than America's.

European companies may have to deal with strict laws regulating the employment relationship -- but in the United States, employment litigation accomplishes much of the same purpose and probably costs nearly as much if not more. Then there's Sarbanes-Oxley, which imposes millions in accounting costs to avoid losing thousands due to fraud, and which has resulted in London largely replacing New York as the world's financial center.

Dear privatize | 3:46 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008

You speak as though school systems were the sole influence on a child's progress and learning. I can point you to any number of studies that demonstrate that parents are the largest influence on whether a child is successful in school (duh). Struggling families are the nation's challenge; fix the family, fix the child, and the school will do what it does best -- teach children that are prepared to learn.

It is no wonder that private schools perform well. They are filled with the children of parents who have invested themselves and their cash into the child's success. You can be sure they will stay involved in that child's education after making such investments; ergo, that child will succeed.

What private schools don't have are large proportions of non-English speaking children and families, special education students, poor families, and families that don't care.

LKY | 5:00 p.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Jud - There are some teachers in the Davis district who have studied the program in depth and don't like it & I doubt they are right wingers.

Answer? | 10:18 a.m. Feb. 28, 2008

There is no "magic" answer. The truth of the matter is that American students are being out-performed by students in Europe and Asia - fact! And please get off the "NEA is Satan" attacks, that isn't the problem either. NEA pushes for education reform and better schools everyday. Education reform has been at a crisis since "Nation at Risk" was published in 1983. I've seen every "new wave" of educational rescue since then and I began teaching in 1984. It isn't teachers, or administrators, or schools. It's the overall degradation of American Society and the new sense of entitlement that we've given our children. They have everything, want for little (even when coming from impoverished homes), and respect few. The see no importance in education. That must be created in the home. Parents are the key ingredient in education, whether it be an IB program or resource. Kids succeed with parental involvement and there is little of that. I had 19 parents at conferences out of a possible 196 students. Now what's really the problem?

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