Deseret News | Reader comments: Inaction in Buttars flap reflects poorly on Utah

Reader comments
John Florez: Inaction in Buttars flap reflects poorly on Utah

Anonymous | 1:18 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

Maybe florez should more commited to writing about the truth rather than castigating a man who did not say any thing racial nor intended too.

Occam razor says All other things being equal, the simplest theory is the best.

So I ask what is more likely: buttars stumbled over words talking about a bill OR he intended to make a racist statement?

It's funny, the things florez talks about bad men doing are the exact things he is doing to buttars.

IN that light there was no reason for anyone to take action, there was no wrong thing done. Hypersensitivity is not eqiual to moral right.

If a white empolyee at a car company call another persons car design a black bay, an ugly baby do you think that person should be fired?

Isn't judgemental and presumptious to decide what that person meant by baby?

This is exactly what you are doing to him, coming down in some kind of self-righteous judgment because you believe you know his heart and intentions. Twisting his words to fit your world view.

Is this "1984" where we control everyone's words and eproscribe what word are even allowed.

Is this what people died for?

Anonymous | 1:26 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

Florez aren't passing moral judgments on buttars because of the color of his skin?

If he was black or even hispanic, and he utter those words about a bill, would we be having this discussion?

And why do you believe you are in a position to pass moral judgement on others?

Anonymous | 1:39 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

It's a good thing we have florez to watch for our morals or us whiteys would just make a mess of things.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 2:35 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

If buttars was black or hispanic and he said what he said, would we even be having this discussion.

NO? so then aren't you judging him by his skin color and not his character?

How dare you twist his words and intentions and condemn and innocent man just for political expediency.

Now you are suggesting the everyone who runs for office must pass a civil moral value litmus test.

This whole article reeks of self-righeousness.

John Florez in now going sit in moral judgement of all legislatures, he aloae can see to others hearts and know their intentions and decide who morally fit. And there by, decide who is morally fit for office and who isn't.

And not only will he judge you but he will judge your whole district.

I would rather have open dialog and open discourse rather silencing voices because florez believes they are not civilly and morally deserving to be heard.

Where will it end? Pretty will it be aby white person can't serve because they can't possible understand the needs be sensitive enough of the monority? OR NO mormons because they not sensitive enough to non mormons. Where will it go? Where will it end?

Anonymous | 2:37 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

To make these moral judgements about a person that John Florez calls for, one need to be to see another persons heart and know their intentions.

Who is going to do this? John Florez? The naacp?
Who going to prtect and defend those who are NOT in the minority?

Will people be allowed to attack the majoriy ie White and Mormans ad naseum. And question them at will, while giving a free pass to all minorities and any thing they say?

IN your brave new world world who is going to decide who is not worthy, and what and who is morally acceptable?

Anonymous | 3:31 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

John Florez aren't you advocating the state deciding whose voice can be heard and whose voice can't?

Sounds very scary!

Very Anti american.
Very anti constition.
Very anti free speech.

This is government by the people and for the people.
A people who will always be imperfect and thus have imperfect leaders.

This is not government by only those who are Polically correct who only say and do what is state approved.

If you once belong to the kkk can you hold office?
If belonged to the black panthers can you hold office?
If you belong to laraza ( i hope i spelled that right) can you hold office?

Can who has ever uttered a racial criticism be allowed in office at all?

Can someone against illegal immigration be allowed in office?

Whose moral judgement will used as criteria?

How much word twisting and intent twisting will be allowed get someone out of office that you disagree with?

If you only want certain voices and no true diversity then maybe you should move to cuba or china or iran. Where everyone must think alike.
Where one must have the certified morals or they can't hold office.

michaelh | 7:05 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

If all who have been accused of racism must be silent then I accuse you Mr. Florez of racism and demand that the Morning News stop publishing articles by him immediately!
Is this that you are trying to achieve Mr. Florez? Every one who has ever attended a La Rasa meeting must also be silenced. Where will it end, can only white people be racists? Isnï¿½t that thought racist and hateful in and of itself?
I may think that you are a racist but please talk al you want, you make my point with every hateful racist word you speak.

Anon | 7:24 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

"Economic forcast darkens" reads a headline in the News today... maybe the entire media is racist!

Educator | 7:30 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

Thank you, John, for shining the light, not just on Sen. Buttars remarks, but on the lack of recognition from his cronies that what he said could be hurtful. As one who has often sat in on committee meetings and even testified before our legislators, I am always amazed at the lack of civility they show to those speaking on behalf of the public. Speakers are cut short, berated, verbally attacked, humiliated, and even more often -ignored. If anyone thinks Buttars comments show disrespect for black Utahns, they should hear how he attacks gays, Democrats, the poor, and unions. He doesn't much like anyone other than himself. I can understand such words coming from this man, but not the fact that the others didn't see the problem. It's time for a change on Capitol Hill.

webbean | 7:39 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

Wow, the comments here certainly reflect the values and morals of Deseret News readers. Very sad. Very sad, indeed.

Reason | 8:06 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

John Florez says, ï¿½Isnï¿½t civil rights a moral value?ï¿½ Sorry, John, this has nothing to do with civil rights. Instead, it has to do with our modern societyï¿½s insane reaction to any words that have the appearance of being racial (unless they are uttered by a liberal). Buttarsï¿½ comments were clumsy and poorly worded, but not racist. He has openly apologized, and that should be all that is necessary. Perhaps Florez is upset because Buttars hasnï¿½t followed the prescribed penance pattern of repeatedly groveling at the feet of the NAACP. I have often had respect for John Florezï¿½s views, but this column is beneath him.

Unreal | 8:36 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

I cannot even begin to understand why people are so willing to give a pass for Sen. Buttars. The comment was made without hesitency or a stumbling tounge, I have no doubt he did not intend to sound racist but this slip of the tounge may have revealed who he actually is.

Joe | 9:02 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

Even before this latest ham-handed comment, Sen. Buttars came across as an ingorant hayseed. It embarrases me that such a buffoon gets air time and I can only hope that any kind of national exposure is almost non-existant.

Re: Reason | 11:04 a.m. Feb. 25, 2008

I agree entirely with you Reason. There is no civil right to never be offended.

I have no attachment or admiration for Sen. Buttars but the whole flap is an attempt to make political hay out of nothing.

Groo | 12:05 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

It appears that the only ones who cannot say anything, without being labeled racists are those that are white...
With Florez, and other activists, such as the NAACP, white people cannot say anything without being labeled racists...
Why, oh why, do activists have to fuel the fire? Don't look for fault in everything that occurs...it just ends up labeling YOU!!!

whoopty-do | 1:30 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

using the word "black" does not always refer to African Americans. Just because the masses are ignorant that the term once refered to a still-born doesn't make Mr. Buttars a racist, it just shows ignorance on the part of the masses. It's too bad that Mr. Buttars seems to have lost some of his effectiveness as a result of the ignorance of the masses; especially those who carry huge chips on their shoulders.

Jud | 1:41 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

Florez is absolutely right. Buttars is a babbler, and an offensive one, but the real culprits here are the senate leaders who say "there's nothing we can do about it." Well, there is something they can do ... they can stand up on the floor of the Senate and call for Buttars' resignation, and they would do it if they either (1) had any guts or (2) didn't secretly agree with him.

Hypocrisy at work | 2:09 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

You are absolutely right. Buttars comments are offensive and hurtful. There are many people who visit and follow what happens at the Legislature. Some of these are Elementary, High School and College students who do so as assignments. What would have happened if a group of 5th graders had been present when Buttars made his comments? What would have happened if among those 5th graders were so African American, Mexican, Asian, etc? What would have gone through their developing minds? It is these kinds of comments by elected officials who are acting in their official capacity that shouldn't be tolerated and should be censured even if he apologizes.

If the parents of a black child had been in the Gallery with their child when Buttars made his comments they would have been forced to say nothing or face going to jail if they made a disturbance in the Gallery and the same could be said of other Senators who are faced with saying nothing or being censured and if the parent or Senator who objected apologized it wouldn't be enough yet for many Buttars apologizing is enough! This double standard shows their hypocrisy.

Larry | 3:03 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

Substitue the statement 'dark, ugly baby' for 'Mormon, ugly baby' and maybe those that were not offended will understand. All the anti Mormon commemnts made by people around the country during the Romney campain certainly, and rightfully so, were offended. How can this comment by a legislator, someone held to a to a higher standard, go unpunished? And how can the citizens of Utah condone this behavior???

callous culture | 4:42 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

There is a callousness in this culture that is evident almost everywhere you turn.
The fact that it's only been 30 years since the LDS people would allow blacks into the priesthood should give you a clue as to where their collective heads are.

Anonymous | 5:05 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

Larry if he had said it was a white ugly baby NO ONE would have said a thing.

Thats the correct analogy not "mormon".

If he had saif white waht woulf you have said?

Nothing! And properly so. It wasn't racist!

dcc | 5:18 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

If this were the first such remark then the story would be dead by now. Buttars has made a career out of bigotry. This is just what he deserves.

Anonymous | 6:27 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

People continue to make absurb claims about buttars that he is a racist or bigot or worse YET they NEVER provide any evidence.

Simply because there is not any.

They have more hate for a conservative voice than they have love for the truth.

funny post | 9:44 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

@ anon - that was probably the funniest post I've read in awhile!

Florez is MArxist to the cora

Mahershalalhashbaz | 11:27 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

He made a mistake. Just because you are more sensitive to that mistake than miriad other mistakes doesn't make him a great HItler. There are far greater sins (not excusing his by saying that). Abortion, fornication (whether straight or gay), adultery, having babies out of wedlock, etc etc. Brings to mind the scripture: Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? .... Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye: and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of they brother's eye. The NAACP needs to read this scripture carefully and really think about it.

2 bits | 11:08 a.m. Feb. 26, 2008

I am also very concerned that the Deseret News Editorial Board and John Florez feel the Utah Senate needs to take action against Chris Buttars "Or it will refelct poorly on Utah"?

Since when do we feel we need capitulate to the political correctness police and take action against an elected official because political activists and outsiders demand it?

Everyone (including Buttars) knows what he said was stupid (and he appologised), but where does it stop? Do we have to run him out of office or keep berating him until the must radical of oustsiders are satisfied that Buttars has been diciplined enough for his mistake?

If we give in here, what will the next political correctness violation be that requires dismissal or sanctions of our elected leaders?

The consequences should be up to the people who elected him and the people he represents, not the activist groups, outsiders and media who feel if you don't take the action they recomend... It will "Reflect poorly on Utah".

Milton | 11:30 a.m. Feb. 26, 2008

I'm sorry to see Mr. Flores jump on the Politically Correct Tyrannical bandwagon. It makes me recall Secretary of the Interior James Watt who was run out of Washington DC in 1983 when he said about his staff "I have a black, a woman, two Jews and a cripple. And we have talent." He was forced to resign. In that same year, Congressmen Gerry Studds and Daniel Crane, who each had affairs with underage House Pages, one homosexual, were merely "censured" by Congress. Studds, totally defiant, even turned his back to Congress as the censure was read.

Buttars has never been accused of racist or discriminatory activity. And in all the current firestorm, everyone keeps leaving out the fact that he was only responding to Rep. Howard Stephenson's comment that SB48 was the "ugly BABY bill." He used "black" as black is often used to describe Right versus Wrong, not Caucasion versus Negro.

Racism is unfortunately alive and well today in our country. But most of it is found among people like NAACP head Jeanetta Williams, who seek every opportunity to take offense and pick a fight.

Colin Coker | 11:37 a.m. Feb. 27, 2008

Wow, I find the comments here that advocate for buttars very disturbing. His comment WAS racist and he HAS made racist comments in the past, ON RECORD. Not to mention his anti-homosexual agenda that can only be described as a constant human rights violation. Some people in this state complain about the outside view of their faith, and probably rightfully so, but then you see comments like those on this board and realize that maybe some of the scrutiny of the LDS faith is founded in absolute reality.

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