Deseret News | Idaho man files sex abuse lawsuit against Scouts, LDS Church

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Idaho man files sex abuse lawsuit against Scouts, LDS Church

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lets get real | 2:53 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

I think the abuser and the witness should be the ones getting sued not the church. The church was not at fault. It is awful that these things happen, but the church has no control over the behavior of it's members. Sexual abuse in the 60's was not talked about, there is nothing we can do to chnage that fact. I agree with the mother who won't let her boys go to camp without their father. Nowadays Scout leaders and boys cannot sleep in the same tent together.We have learned from the past. Parents cannot be naive any longer. We have to protect our kids from the dangers of society. BE SMART people!

Ernest T. Bass | 3:02 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

You guys who think the Church shouldn't be held accountable are wrong. The LDS Church put the molester in a position to abuse children.
The myth of inspired callings should have prevented the situation.
The fact is, it is a Church situation, moreso than a scout situation.

Other side | 3:05 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

Unfortunately...I know a man accused of a similar event years after it supposedly occurred...never had a record, never a question of integrity, infidelity or improper relationship. Loved by his children and their friends. Became completely ruined financially and will always have a mark, even after being exonerated. Nothing good comes from a 40 year old accusation. Not saying it didn't happen...time clearly does not heal all wounds. Just seems opportunistic when you drag the support groups in after so many years...impossible to defend.

Comments continue below

40 years ago | 3:18 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

Actually over 40 years ago I was molested and when I did remember while in my 30s I couldn't remember who had done it. It could have been one of two people but rather then falsely accuse someone I have forgiven the person in my heart. Forty years to come out with allegations against someone for any type of crime is unheard of. The memory does play tricks on us.

If the church once again "pays off" the person making the accusation I will wonder why they did it. Like someone else has said - it was a PERSON not a coorperation therefore if that person is found guilty in a court of law then that person is the one responsible for the debt not the church nor the boy scouts.

Anonymous | 3:26 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

Those criticizing the victim and attorney aren't sympathizing with the accused abuser (remember not convicted yet), but questioning their motives. We, like every moral, rational person, want to see any child molester dealt with harshly. It's a serious crime and I have little sympathy. But the abuser is just a sidenote in the case, they just want the money. That's why this sleezy lawyer goes after churches, organizations, schools, etc. instead of the actual abusers. He could care less about the victim's suffering. I seriously doubt this guy would ever take a case against a homeless man or anyone else who doesn't have money.

So all you idiots that make comments like "Mormons and Utahns don't care about child abuse," just think next time before you talk.

Mike R. | 3:30 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

The statute of limitations ran out on this many years ago. I feel for this guy but he shouldn't be compensated fourty years after the fact. He should have reported it back when it happened.

Anonymous | 3:46 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

I know of someone that was innocent of a claimed sexual abuse and he was banned from scouting for life.
Sometimes all the wacked out scariness our community has about sex can be taken too far. And in this man's sake I feel sorry for him becuase he is LDS and has kids in the program and can't get involved because someone was scared and filed a complaint. It wasn't true was dropped and not even investigated to a further extent. but the complaint scared the scout executive enough to ban the poor man for life.

Paul | 3:47 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

TWO COMMENTS: 1) This guy files a lawsuit after 40 years and blames everyone except the actual accused perpetrator-- that's a joke. This guy is looking for a payday; and behind every lawsuit is a greedy LAAAAWYEEEER who convinced this guy to go ahead with this horrible lawsuit- go after the guy that did it. More and more people try to figure out a scam to get money from the LDS church- it's pathetic.

2) Just think, liberals want the Boy Scouts to accept homosexuals as scout leaders- That is the worst idea in the history of mankind. What do liberals not understand about the tenenants of the Scout oath to be morally straight? If the guy is guilty, then punish him harshly; and he violated that Scout oath- just think how much more that oath would be violated if they allowed homosexuals to be scout leaders.

P.S. Deseret News- you better post this as there is nothing off topic, abusive, or offensive.

Fish hater | 3:48 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

So Mr. Bass...you would have any organization be responsible "eternally" for the acts of volunteers or hires? Should I sue my old community league football organization (still running) because I got inappropriately touched by a coach and never wanted to play again? WOW...I could have been an NFL star maybe! I should get millions! I think organizations should be protected by SOME limitations...maybe 10 years or so. Just think...if the boy scouts just folded up they'd have nothing to worry about...EXCEPT the thousands of young men they have a positive effect on each year!

curious | 4:03 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

Good question, why go to the media first? The lawyer and his client are obviously not trying to get help, a therapist, to work through the years of pain but rather to make head lines. Sad, very sad. My husband was a boy scout leader. The regulations are very strict and leaders watch leaders. I sure hope child abuse doesn't happen anymore in this wonderful program of the Boy Scouts of America.

Loser! | 4:28 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

All I have to say is what has our nation come to? This attorney is obviously a money digger who only cares about his contingency fee. (I have worked with attorneys for many years, and the few rotten attorneys like this guy ruin the reputation of the honest attorneys). If this man took that long to admit to the abuse, something else is going on. He probably doesn't have any money, so he tried to find a way to get some money (i.e. lawsuit). This country is too sue-happy!!! Child abuse or any abuse is horrible, but witholding the abuse allegations for that many years is ridiculous.

Church Scouting | 5:11 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

When Scouting is the parent's program of choice, then it functions well. In these circumstances the parents usually volunteer and participate in the program.

When Scouting is the default program hoisted on the kid and parent, neither the kid nor the parents participate. The troop is disfunctional and is Scouting in name only. At least that's been the case in the last 4 wards I've attended.

Anonymous | 5:16 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

Your are wrong earnest, as usual.

The church can only be held responsible if they "knowingly" put his person that position.

Or, if finding out after the fact, did not remove him.

cbk | 10:19 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

Child abuse is wrong, but isn't the charge outside of the statue of limitations, where 40 year old memories may not be that acurate? There are normally a few bad apples in every good organization. The Boy Scouts and LDS church make huge efforts to keep this from happening, but even these good organizations can't control every person (in the millions) who has ever given service on their behalf. If a US citizen had abused a child, should the US government be libel for not controlling all their citizens actions?

L | 10:32 p.m. Feb. 22, 2008

I had some abuse by both a leader and other scouts in a Church sponsored troop (Methodist Church) some 60 years ago.

Usually I have put it aside and don't worry about it except when I read articles like this and my memories come back. I have not discussed it, perhaps I should have reported it,BUT.

I have certainly forgiven anyone who was involved. I am also aware of similar problems at a YMCA and a 4H camp.

I think the Souting program is great and a wonderful activity for the Church who should be encouraged for their continued support of the scouting program. No way would I suggest that it be dropped and I do think it is relevant in 2008 to boys and with good leadership,parent and community support it can be a good life shaping experience. Other than the unfortunate experience,Scouting was great for me and I have seen it build great values in young men including my grandsons.

If problems occurred, it was not what the Church or the BSA teach,but as the result of an individual who didn't follow what was taught. The LDS nor the Methodist Churc are at fault nor the BSA!

Forgiveness = Lawsuit? | 1:30 a.m. Feb. 23, 2008

I'm sure money is going to solve the problem. Something bad happened to me so I'm entitled to millions of dollars. One time a kid in school made fun of me when I was giving a presentation to the class. Now I have a fear of public speaking and get anxious around large groups. I'm going to sue the school district for the emotional stress I've experienced. I could have been the next Steven R. Covey, but now I can't even read to my 3 year old. I deserve a life of riches because I was a victim.

P.S. | 1:39 a.m. Feb. 23, 2008

Come to think of it, I was bullied in school and now I'm afraid of public venues. The school administrators never did anything about it and now I'm a wimp. My life is in shambles. Where is the lawyer that will get me the money I deserve?

Anonymous | 1:43 a.m. Feb. 23, 2008

ewww and this is why I have stayed away from church, my uncle was molested too in wyoming. this is disgusting and to me it makes me mad.

LDS Please Fight! | 6:11 a.m. Feb. 23, 2008

PLEASE FIGHT THIS ONE SALT LAKE!!!! I CAN'T FEEL DISENFRANCHISED AGAIN!!!! I PAY MY 10% TOO!

Scout IR | 7:06 a.m. Feb. 23, 2008

I couldn't agree more with the notion that the BSA program is seriously outdated and the church should institute a more relevant programs for training young men. As a former IR (several times) I have seen first-hand the difficulty in which wards operate within the scouting program. It's too easy to say that "if they did it right." The point is, that with turnover rates high amongst leaders, the programs are rarely run right.

In the last ward I was in, the 2 most celebrated Eagle Scouts were also the two who were charged on the collegiate level with dorm rapes. I frankly have seen little value in the last 15 years in the sacouting world that could not be done as well on strictly the church level.

JT | 10:02 a.m. Feb. 23, 2008

This happened 40 years ago and he just now figures he can ca$h in? I was abused by my dad 20 years ago as a kid; he was a member of the LDS church at one point; therefore I should get my money from the church too. If he was abused, that abuser will pay, in this life or the next, but to sue the church over it is just overt greed.

The timetable IS | 10:53 a.m. Feb. 23, 2008

fishy. Don't tell me not to judge it. In the late 1960s child abuse was not nearly as well understood as it is today even by psychologists. Recidivism rates were not known the way they are today. I'm sick of people judging oversight policies from 40 years ago based on today's knowledge. Especially when the institutions involved (BSA and LDS church) have already taken corrective action. It would be different if the church had not changed any policies. This guy is looking to hit the lottery (both the lawyer and the alleged victim). If he did suffer abuse, I do feel sorry for that. I DO NOT believe he deserves one dime from ANYONE other than the abuser and someone who had actual knowledge of the abuse.

How surprising | 11:00 a.m. Feb. 23, 2008

How surprising.
Anyone disagree?

Gee Truly! | 12:03 p.m. Feb. 23, 2008

Lets give your "forgiveness" speech to the 911 families, the holocaust survivors, and all the little children raped, tortured and permanently scarred by their abuse.
We can just get rid of the "justice" system all together and no matter who gets hurt or how bad, we can just tell the victims to forgive, cause Truly's personal religious beliefs have more validity than their suffering.
Nice that you can invalidate other people's pain and suffering so easily.
Maybe someday you'll get a taste of it yourself and feel differently.
I think if it was some church other than the LDS involved you would be of a different mindset.
What if the pain was so bad that it took 40 years to be able to talk about it at all?
If you wait long enough, crime ceases to be crime?
If you wait long enough rape is okay?
If you wait long enough murder is just dandy?
Lay off the jello Truly!
Not everyone is bound by your religious belief - your religion is not law.
The law says that there is no statute of limitations on personal suits, but by your logic Warren Jeffs isn't a bad guy either.

Disco | 2:35 p.m. Feb. 23, 2008

A crime 40 years ago. Love the sinner, hate the crime. Judgement day is coming my brothers and sisters. Anyone who does this evil nees to be dealt with. The scouts and the sponsering organization should pay the punitive damages with the agreement of no guilt. Move on, get this out of the news. Any pervert who does this needs a little hometown justice.

Breck | 12:01 a.m. Feb. 24, 2008

This lawsuit is an example of ultimate hipocrisy on the part of the victim. Yeah it's absolutely horrendous that he was abused, but apparently neither he nor his parents (if he told them) pursued seeing this guy being brought to justice. His lack of doing this made it so this particular sex offender was able to keep on doing it. If he can sue the BSA and the church for not doing the same thing then should one of this sex offender's later victims be able to sue him? This may seem harsh but if people don't have the guts to go after these sex offenders they're putting their own interest above those of future victims. The annoying thing about these types of lawsuits is that anybody old enough knows that people in the 60's and 70's took sexual abuse a lot less seriously and dealt with it differently. To hold people to today's standards forty years later strikes me as ridiculous. In addition, for this attorney to refer to an assistant scout leader as a church official is absurd.

Breck | 12:18 a.m. Feb. 24, 2008

I just hope the church fights this lawsuit tooth and nail. It's very disconcerting to see suits like these given any degree of merit with a settlement out of court.

interested | 7:30 a.m. Feb. 24, 2008

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints did not molest this young man. No member of the church is perfect but each are held accountable for his or her own actions. If a church leader knew what was going on - action would have been taken. The person who molested this young man should be held responsible.

The sad thing about this lawsuit is that all the good that is done with the scouting program is underscored by a few individuals who have acted inappropriate. It is not the churches fault it is the molesters fault.

My son is an Eagle Scout and I am grateful for all of the men in his life that helped him achieve the rank of "Eagle." Millions of young men in the world are strengthened by the Boy Scoutï¿½s motto.

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

I am grateful for organizations that uphold these values in a society that is ever-changing for the worse.

Idaho voice | 8:05 a.m. Feb. 24, 2008

Hold on a minute. I am not a huge fan of BSA, however, it serves a purpose for a certain group of people who could not function in other capacities. I mean for both youth and leaders. Both tend to grow through the programs where they might not have any involvement otherwise. Look in your wards and you'll see exactly what I mean. None of my boys are active in BSA and will not receive Eagle awards, however, they are very active in other things in the quorums and are preparing to be valiant servants and leaders. Please, please, please follow the guideline to protect everyone!

Kent | 2:50 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008

Considering all the money the Scouting program consumes, and the extremely high salaries at the top, this is all the more reason why an alternative needs to be found - immediately!

If the leaders of these organizations are not competent enough to manage this problem, they should be replaced.

SJ Bobkins | 6:11 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008

This suit can be summed up in three phrases:
1) Deep Pockets
2) A call for attention and sympathy
3) Pay Back
You can better hurt an organization with bad publicity over and above the financial incentive. People love to be victims, not realizing that a victim wears out his welcome very quickly. Once you make yourself to become a victim, you then have a built-in excuse to be a failure.

anon | 7:24 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008

I was abused 40 years ago. It was a member of the LDS church. Should I sue the church that bears the Savior's name; the same Savior that has helped me heal and helped me to help others? The same perfect and innocent Savior that atoned for the sins of all the world? I have since been blessed with a great family and home life. It is time to show wisdom and deal with the perpetrator justly within the laws and the victim with care. To go after anyone else is vicious and continues the abuse, anger, and eventual hatred to more innocent victims. Stop the cruel "blood in the water mentality."
The lawsuit serves nothing of any greater good.

awesomeron | 7:32 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008

It appears that this man was/is a true sex offender. However why the Lawsuit Now? If my life was messed up so bad and this was the reason, I would have told and sued a long time ago. I want to see the Church Defend all Lawsuits of this nature. I belive it is a childs obligation (over about age 10) to Report. The BSA is right in their current approach.

John F. | 9:37 p.m. Feb. 24, 2008

I was molested 50 years ago by A man driving A Olds
guess Ill sue general motors , they should control
their customers better. Yes scout leaders are agents of the church but they also have free agense
God gave it to them the church can tell them they should'nt do something but it can't wach them 24/7

Punative Lawsuits | 12:39 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

The original point of punative lawsuits was to punish an uncooporative organization severly enough that they would then put corrective policies in place. For example, it took lawsuits for the Catholic church to finally stop protecting predator priests.

40 years ago leaders could sleep in the same tent as boys. That has not been allowed for quite some time now. The lack of policies that allowed the alleged abuse, and I can't stress the word alleged enough, have long since been corrected. Therefore, the reason for a punative lawsuit in this case has long since past.

Compensation for the abuse should, or in a non-corrupt civil/legal system, could only come in the form of punishment of the proved guilty accused.

At any rate, I will never understand why our legal system allows lawsuits for crimes that have never been proved in a court of law. You should not be able to sue if you cannot prove the crime.

So then, what's the point of this lawsuit? To force the church and BSA to change their policies? Already done. To punish the accused? He's not even part of the lawsuit. The only thing left is to get rich quick.

Imagine | 12:44 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

Imagine if instead of being 50% of the award, lawyer's fees where capped at standard hourly rates with everything else going to the victim. Now, granted, lawyer hourly rates are still outrageous, but don't you think just a few of the frivolous lawsuits would all of the sudden be deemed not worth pursuing?

Sexual crimes in Utah | 2:33 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

The Utah Commission on Criminal and Juvenile Justice reports for 2005;

ï¿½Of the violent crimes that occur in Utah, rape is the only one is which Utahï¿½s rate is above the national averageï¿½

Surveys show from this dept. that one in three Utah women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. Child molestation was the most common form of sexual violence with rape closely following.

86.2% reported that their sexual violence experience occurred before their 18th birthday.

Overall, neither race nor income had any relationship with the occurrences. Only 8.6% were violated by a stranger. The majority of victims were aware of facilities or services they could contact for help, yet only 9.8% actually reported the crime to the police; 2.9% called the rape hotline for help, and a mere 8.2% sought medical attention.ï¿½ (8)

It would only stand to reason the victims wouldnï¿½t report the crime if the majority were being abused by a family member!

Crooks | 4:51 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

Tom Doe and his lawyer hide him behind a fake name,

--but parade the accused's in the 1st paragraph--

or is that just the DMNews' doing?

Catholic Michael | 5:16 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

Came upon this article looking at something else as was curious how the Mormons respond. It is intereting to me the comments that defend your church are similar to the types of comments that defended mine. There are marked differences though and a close comparision ought not be drawn. So far, there's not been any accusation that your hierarchy moved this man about to let him prey upon more children...that's where The Church went wrong and was held liable, as it should. For those of you have not been abused (I pray a significant majority), the victem's wait has little to nothing to do with "remembering"; I've not gone a day since I was first abused without it coming to mind. It has to do with issues of shame and fear (which these defenders materialise) that the victem has to overcome.
Like The Church, neither Mormon Church nor the BSA should be painted in harsh hues merely due to the hideous actions of a very small minority.

Just Wondering In Idaho | 5:58 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

I posted a comment this a.m. yet it hasn't been posted. Did I do something wrong? I did spell one word wrong! Sorry!! This time I will leave my E-mail address, just in case.
Thank You.

BSA or LDS Church Relevant? | 6:34 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

I agree with all of the people who say that LDS Church should divorce itself from the BSA! The program is dated and hasn't kept current with modern society. Actually, neither has the church. It is really a waste of time and resources to attend a church that espouses such archaic moral values. Normal people know that moral challenges are rarely black or white. Our villages need to aid the youth to better understand moral relevance. Who are we to determine what is acceptable behavior. We need to come to grips with modern civilization. Most historical religions and youth outreach programs are havens for abuse and repression. People today are smart enough to navigate through life without the limits and restrictions imposed by religion and groups like the BSA. To rely on diety is a crutch for the weak. I am so glad other members of the LDS Church are also smart enough to know that the aims and methods of Scouting are of little real value today.

It also says something about the relevance of a religion that has proclaimed the BSA to be the "Activity Arm" of it's youth outreach. Our youth don't need the extra pressure!

Legal Interpretation | 6:46 p.m. Feb. 25, 2008

Two legal issues to point out (before everybody without a law degree speaks in apalling ignorance)

1) The BSA and the Church can be liable under a well established and universally followed tort rule: negligent entrustment. The issue is whether the church put an inappropriate individual in a position to cause harm to a forseeable plaintiff. The Plaintiff will have to prove that BSA/LDS knew or should have known that the offender was a potential abuser. This kind of case is brought all the time, and it was the main theory of recovery for all those lawsuits against the Catholic Church. If the BSA/LDS knew or should have known about the risk, they should be liable.

2) because this case is 40 years old, the Idaho statute of limitations should prevent this suit from going forward.

As for lawyers suing deep pockets: yes they do it, and they have an ethical obligation to provide any legal solution for their clients they can make. Obviously the offender doesn't have any money to satisfy a 5Million judgment so why sue him? If there is a legitimate claim against a solvent party the attorney must make it. Leave judgment to the judge/jury.

Wade | 1:31 p.m. Nov. 16, 2009

I was angered to see this Lawsuit filed. You may say what gives you the right to be angry? Well let me say thsi, I feel I understand this person, better than most and so feel I can say something. I was molested during this same time frame, albeit by my Father. I was molested hundreds of times. This was during a time when this was not talked about and people did not know what to do aboout it. I finally relized this was wrong and turned my Father in. I am a memeber of the LDS Church. My Father was excommunicated from the Church for his actions and was never allowed to work with children again. A note was placed on his records. Why didn't this person say someting back then, wait 40 years. I say get over it. I chose to not let this be the defining part of my life. I did nothing wrong. I have 5 Sons and 5 Grandsons and I do not molest others. 4 of my sons are Eagle scouts. I know what the red flags are and watch for them. Scouting is a great thing for young men. Get over it.

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