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Issue of day: cutting taxes or raising teacher pay
175 comments | Read story
another teacher | 4:46 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Most teachers are off mid June to mid August (two month ). They need this to
make enough $$ to afford to be a teacher the other 10 months of the year.
my two cents | 5:05 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
A real teacher should not take seriously what some of the commentors are saying.
It is obvious they have no clue what's going on when they tell you to quit
complaining and get a job that pays better because many teachers are doing just
that, which is contributing to the teacher shortage and the decline in public
education that I hope you are fighting to reverse. You have my support. I do
talk to my state legislator about teacher pay, and it is something he is very
concerned about. The public education system is not perfect, but neither is
private education. Both are dependent on the support of the parents, and from
the comments here and what I see in my kids' school, it appears too many
parents care little for education. Sad.
A real teacher, ignore comments from the ignoramuses who greedly post that they want more tax money back and tell you to go get a better paying job if you don't like a teacher's salary. Their ignorance and selfishness are obvious. I salute what you do every day for our kids.
A real teacher, ignore comments from the ignoramuses who greedly post that they want more tax money back and tell you to go get a better paying job if you don't like a teacher's salary. Their ignorance and selfishness are obvious. I salute what you do every day for our kids.
Comments continue below
uritaata | 5:08 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
These dogmatic representatives are now faced with reality! Cut taxes the rest
will take care of itself! Fire these stupid guys for a failed policy!
Private sector is not the solution, it is only interested in productivity and profitability; it discards all that is marginal. It will leave behind program and child that are not "cost efficient".
Education is an art, it's more complex than dealing with machinery and products, It's dealing with human minds, human souls and human potential.
Invest in education, Get the best educators possible, get them the best equipement, a manageable class size,and regular training. They will make a difference. They will help each child student to be a little smarter and reach its highest potential. I hope its clear to all that only a few will become a PhD and that successful education is also tied to what's going on after school and in the homes.
Make no mistake good paying jobs attracks and retain top skills. Investing in education is the best way to secure the future of this nation including my retirement-- in 15 years.
Private sector is not the solution, it is only interested in productivity and profitability; it discards all that is marginal. It will leave behind program and child that are not "cost efficient".
Education is an art, it's more complex than dealing with machinery and products, It's dealing with human minds, human souls and human potential.
Invest in education, Get the best educators possible, get them the best equipement, a manageable class size,and regular training. They will make a difference. They will help each child student to be a little smarter and reach its highest potential. I hope its clear to all that only a few will become a PhD and that successful education is also tied to what's going on after school and in the homes.
Make no mistake good paying jobs attracks and retain top skills. Investing in education is the best way to secure the future of this nation including my retirement-- in 15 years.
RMW | 5:21 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Some "false" statements and response:
�People with ADHD are forced to fail.� (Teachers work hard to meet the needs of ADHD students. There is training and programs available).
�There is no accountability.� (In our district, there is a fairly rigorous evaluation process. Teachers are fully accountable for teaching the curriculum)
�There is no need to do better than the minimum in the educational system.� (Most teachers and students have high expectations and standards)
�Teaching simply isn�t that hard.� (Mastering quality teaching skills and implementing them consistently is extremely difficult)
Teachers don�t �care about the quality of children�s education.� (Ridiculous statement)
�Deny free education for . . . illegal aliens will solve overcrowding problem.� (It won�t even make a dent in the Utah educational system � especially in urban areas)
�California law now requires that the public schools do not use the words Mom and Dad.� (That language was removed from SB177 in California. Mom and Dad can be used freely).
It's rather amusing reading people's perspectives on education. Sometimes it's baffling.
�People with ADHD are forced to fail.� (Teachers work hard to meet the needs of ADHD students. There is training and programs available).
�There is no accountability.� (In our district, there is a fairly rigorous evaluation process. Teachers are fully accountable for teaching the curriculum)
�There is no need to do better than the minimum in the educational system.� (Most teachers and students have high expectations and standards)
�Teaching simply isn�t that hard.� (Mastering quality teaching skills and implementing them consistently is extremely difficult)
Teachers don�t �care about the quality of children�s education.� (Ridiculous statement)
�Deny free education for . . . illegal aliens will solve overcrowding problem.� (It won�t even make a dent in the Utah educational system � especially in urban areas)
�California law now requires that the public schools do not use the words Mom and Dad.� (That language was removed from SB177 in California. Mom and Dad can be used freely).
It's rather amusing reading people's perspectives on education. Sometimes it's baffling.
Dave | 5:43 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
The resolution is simple: the state overcharged us and should give us a refund.
Anonymous | 5:50 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
The teachers in Utah are great for the most part. And they should be paid quite
well for the job they do, however their salaries are public knowledge and
published on the utah's right to know site.
I was quite surprised to see my neighbor who is a third grade teacher gets over 60k a year. That is twice the average income of a Utah worker.
I was quite surprised to see my neighbor who is a third grade teacher gets over 60k a year. That is twice the average income of a Utah worker.
Blaine Nay | 6:02 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
If memory serves, we spend around $7,500 per student in Utah's government
schools. That works out to $225,000 per class of 30! Where is all that money
going? Clearly, not to the teachers! Cut the cost of school overhead and
administration in half. Give the savings to the teachers.
Substitute Teacher | 6:22 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Let's try something new: eliminate wasteful state spending and perks for
lawmakers. Then there will be enough money for all worthy pursuits.
Today I worked as a substitute teacher in an elementray school. I saw two things which caused alarms to ring in my head. The first was a poster encouraging students to perform well on (name of state exam) Tuesday, one day each week when the students practice taking tests to prepare for state exams. I was appalled at the idea of students wasting twenty percent of the school week on such activities. Then I saw boxes of new, very expenseive-looking math materials. Half of the materials were in Spanish, up through fifth grade. If children attend English-speaking classes beginning in kindergarten, why do they need math materials presented in Spanish?
Perhaps school administrators should be taken to task for wasteful spending as well. I have always wondered why monies were available for "fluff" when teachers had to beg for copy paper costing about $1 a ream.
Today I worked as a substitute teacher in an elementray school. I saw two things which caused alarms to ring in my head. The first was a poster encouraging students to perform well on (name of state exam) Tuesday, one day each week when the students practice taking tests to prepare for state exams. I was appalled at the idea of students wasting twenty percent of the school week on such activities. Then I saw boxes of new, very expenseive-looking math materials. Half of the materials were in Spanish, up through fifth grade. If children attend English-speaking classes beginning in kindergarten, why do they need math materials presented in Spanish?
Perhaps school administrators should be taken to task for wasteful spending as well. I have always wondered why monies were available for "fluff" when teachers had to beg for copy paper costing about $1 a ream.
Rich | 6:17 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
My wife is a school teacher, and she said the main problems we have in education
today are 1) parents who don't care about how their kids do in school, and
2) class sizes that are too big. Paying individual teachers more money will do
nothing to solve either problem. Instead the Legislature should provide more
money to hire more teachers; the money should be paid directly by the state to
the new teachers. Otherwise the school districts will siphon it all off, paying
for things such as bigger basketball gyms and cafeterias. I've seen that
happen all too often.
Proud Investigation Teacher | 6:27 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
To Investigations Math @ 8:01a.m.,
Have you ever even gone into your child's class to witness for yourself what is being taught. You don't even have a clue to the truth of Investigations. The WHOLE point to Investigations is that the students learn the how and why BEFORE they learn the processes. That is the proofs and theorems, etc. Standard traditional math only offers rote memorization of the procedures WITHOUT explanations for how or why they work. So that years down the line when they have been out of school for a number of years then find that they need to use the math they were taught years ago, they have no basis to fall back on. Investigations builds understanding. But why am I trying to convince someone who has no interest in the truth. You are only interested in spouting the same baseless propaganda that has been spewed by all anti-Investigation activists. Where is the research to support your misconceptions? I have research PLUS first hand proof from my own class to support my position!!! Once again I invite you to actually sit through one of my lessons and witness first hand what I am saying.
Have you ever even gone into your child's class to witness for yourself what is being taught. You don't even have a clue to the truth of Investigations. The WHOLE point to Investigations is that the students learn the how and why BEFORE they learn the processes. That is the proofs and theorems, etc. Standard traditional math only offers rote memorization of the procedures WITHOUT explanations for how or why they work. So that years down the line when they have been out of school for a number of years then find that they need to use the math they were taught years ago, they have no basis to fall back on. Investigations builds understanding. But why am I trying to convince someone who has no interest in the truth. You are only interested in spouting the same baseless propaganda that has been spewed by all anti-Investigation activists. Where is the research to support your misconceptions? I have research PLUS first hand proof from my own class to support my position!!! Once again I invite you to actually sit through one of my lessons and witness first hand what I am saying.
Not Suprised | 6:42 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
My first three years of teaching the legislature gave us a zero percent raise.
Our beloved Governor Norm Bangerter said "take three asprin and call me in
the morning". yet, some twenty years later we are still battling for a
miserable 3%. Utah teachers were behind then and today we are even further
behind, thus the shortage. Most posting here fail to realize that teachers are
people to. When taxes go up teachers have to pay them. Medical benefits (not
that great) increase teachers have to pay the co$t. Retirement, with todays
co$ts who can afford it? Certainly not the average teacher! Most simply do not
get the life of a teacher and the sacrifices made to become and stay one,
especially our local government and the powers that be. Another year, another
legislative session fooling the public and misleading them into believing Utah
teachers have it so good. Read the posts that $2500 really equated to very,very
little. Think your childrens teachers are getting another so called great bonus
(not raise) think again. Teaching is a sad,sad job don't ever do it!!
I wonder | 6:47 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
How many people saying how easy it is to be a teacher actually have a college
degree? And if they do have a degree do they realize who taught them. The
disrespectful and rude comments on here is part of what makes teaching so hard,
they have to put up with ignorant fools like that all the time.
I'm not a teacher | 6:59 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
It's 9pm here on the East Coast. I'm still at work. I've been
at work since 6am this morning. Can I get the government to give me more $
because I'm spending extra time at work?
Proud Investigation Teacher | 7:02 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
To my two cents @ 9:34am,
What are you talking about. I said nothing about pay being adequate and fair. I made no attempt to even imply such. My comments were focused upon the assertion that education is dumbed down. Sorry if you misunderstood me.
To the response to my post at 10:24am, I can't help but wonder how much is your responsibility for your daughters failure. I find that the biggest reason why a child fails in Investigations math is due in large part to the parents undermining the teacher. When homework tells the child to explain two ways to multiply a problem. The parent quickly tells the child to just do it the parents way and ONLY the parents way. There is more than one way to derive the correct answer.
How many of us were frustrated when we were in school and we asked our teachers why they had to do math the teachers way and were told simply "because I said so."
We provide the opportunity for your children to utilize higher level thinking to work math and are told that we are dumbing down math. Give me a break!!!
What are you talking about. I said nothing about pay being adequate and fair. I made no attempt to even imply such. My comments were focused upon the assertion that education is dumbed down. Sorry if you misunderstood me.
To the response to my post at 10:24am, I can't help but wonder how much is your responsibility for your daughters failure. I find that the biggest reason why a child fails in Investigations math is due in large part to the parents undermining the teacher. When homework tells the child to explain two ways to multiply a problem. The parent quickly tells the child to just do it the parents way and ONLY the parents way. There is more than one way to derive the correct answer.
How many of us were frustrated when we were in school and we asked our teachers why they had to do math the teachers way and were told simply "because I said so."
We provide the opportunity for your children to utilize higher level thinking to work math and are told that we are dumbing down math. Give me a break!!!
Teaching is Easy | 6:57 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Many of you believe this awful lie. Planning, preparing, and conducting lessons
for a classroom of 25-30 students at a variety of levels and with diverse
educational needs is never easy. If you do not believe me, help with the teacher
shortage and spend a day or more of your vacation as a substitute teacher.
RE: The lottery. Funding schools with lottery money is another awful lie. Many states have sold residents on the legalization of gambling by promising to give the profits to education. It doesn't happen. Most of the money goes to the organizers (not the most law-abiding group of people). In one state, the legislature reduced state aid to schools by the amount of lottery money that went to education. The final result? No gain for education. Do not be fooled by the charlatan!
RE: The lottery. Funding schools with lottery money is another awful lie. Many states have sold residents on the legalization of gambling by promising to give the profits to education. It doesn't happen. Most of the money goes to the organizers (not the most law-abiding group of people). In one state, the legislature reduced state aid to schools by the amount of lottery money that went to education. The final result? No gain for education. Do not be fooled by the charlatan!
To all the posting teachers! | 7:06 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
This is for all of the teachers who are calling our children "juvenile
delinquents" "non-compliant" "coming from parents who
don't care", and all of the comments similar to that... I love your
negative attitudes towards our children. You say you teach because you want to
better our children, you love them of course. Yet you view them as delinquents
and non-compliants? Interesting... My guess is that you (not all teachers, but
those with the attitude problem) are all in it for you. Quit using our children
as your crutch. I'll use an all-to-famous quote given by all you
teachers... "Our kids deserve better than that." That's why we
want privitization. So we can choose which teachers are teaching our kids. So
we can choose whether or not they are taught about Global Warming and Evolution
as theory or fact. Instead, you don't want us to have choice. We just
HAVE to pay for whatever reject the government hires to teach our kids.
Let's not forget about all them teachers who end up having
"relationships" with our kids. I'd rather keep my cash and spend
it on my kids by MY CHOICE!
People are so ignorant | 7:07 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
...And we wonder why other countries are surpasing ours in math and science.
Look at some of these posts and we wonder why would someone want to teach when some parents and students see no value in it.
In Japan, for example, teachers are reveared and the teaching profession is looked on with honor. Japanese students, and just about every other industrialized nation on earth does far better than we do on basic math and science skills. When we treat teachers this badly, why would they want to "excell" at what they do?
Attitude determines altitude.
Look at some of these posts and we wonder why would someone want to teach when some parents and students see no value in it.
In Japan, for example, teachers are reveared and the teaching profession is looked on with honor. Japanese students, and just about every other industrialized nation on earth does far better than we do on basic math and science skills. When we treat teachers this badly, why would they want to "excell" at what they do?
Attitude determines altitude.
re: tired of being abused | 7:05 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
My teaching contract is for 185 days. Please tell me the district that is on
168 days so I can apply. I am also required to attend two weeks of unpaid
schooling per year to keep up my teaching license. I also
"compensated" $120 per day for 7 days of teaching improvement and
curriculum development. So I work 202 days but am paid for 185 at regular wage
and 7 at reduced wages and 10 days a year I pay for the privilege of going back
to school, keeping my license current, and learning to educate your children
better. All I really want is for parents to pay me baby sitting wages of $2 per
hour to educate your child. 180 days Children are in school 7 hours a day
educating them average of 28 students per hour...$70,560 annually... sounds
fair. You wouldn't begrudge a college educated babysitter that may even
teach you child something $2 per hour for your child would you?
Oosik | 7:13 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
A highly educated electorate is the bane of those that would whittle away our
rights, ie. Buttars in UT and the Bush crew in DC
Re: I am not a teacher | 7:10 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
What are you doing wasting time at work and reading this blog?
Student...again | 7:17 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
My husband taught Special Education for 3 years in Utah public schools. He
chose to quit because he wanted to get a PhD and, according to the pay schedule
for teachers, he would earn about $3,000 more a year WITH A PHD than he was with
just a Bachelor's. But teachers have such good benefits, you say??? Well,
on top of that, our health insurance premiums almost tripled in one year.
Re: To all the posting teachers | 7:36 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
"We want privitization. So we can choose which teachers are teaching our
kids."
Um, we have privitization already. They're called private schools. Let's keep them private, please. If we fund private schools with public money, what do they become? Public schools! Oh, and you shouldn't begin sentences with a conjunction. Perhaps you should have chosen a different English teacher.
Um, we have privitization already. They're called private schools. Let's keep them private, please. If we fund private schools with public money, what do they become? Public schools! Oh, and you shouldn't begin sentences with a conjunction. Perhaps you should have chosen a different English teacher.
To all the posting teachers | 7:32 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Response to your comments,TATPT: When students are non-compliant, teachers do
not think ill of the children. What an absurd idea. Teachers are wise enough to
know the behavior of children in the classroom reflects what happens at home.
Teachers love children enough to wish the parents did a better job of parenting,
that's all. It is the child who will suffer the consequences of
inappropriate social behavior. Teachers recognize this and have compassion for
the student.
Private schools? Check the credentials of the staff before writing your check. Unless the tuition and fees are huge, private schools are less able to lure good teachers than public ones. Test scores are higher because the school selects only the best of the best for enrollment (not all applicants are accepted). Special programs? They are seriously underfunded unless a wealthy alum or parent donates the money. Most private schools require much time, effort, and money from the parents. Volunteering in classrooms and at special events, fundraising, etc. are requirements, not an option. As the saying goes, one cannot judge a book by its cover (or a school by its brochure).
Private schools? Check the credentials of the staff before writing your check. Unless the tuition and fees are huge, private schools are less able to lure good teachers than public ones. Test scores are higher because the school selects only the best of the best for enrollment (not all applicants are accepted). Special programs? They are seriously underfunded unless a wealthy alum or parent donates the money. Most private schools require much time, effort, and money from the parents. Volunteering in classrooms and at special events, fundraising, etc. are requirements, not an option. As the saying goes, one cannot judge a book by its cover (or a school by its brochure).
Spurned Teacher In Utah | 7:43 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
I am another of many, but soon to be, not so many, teachers that have posted
tonight. I truly appreciate those of you who have expressed support for us. I
know that MOST of Utah does not believe that what we do have value. So that
makes those who do support us that much more appreciated. However, I am sad to
let you know that I have listened all too well to the comments and the volume of
comments expressing how EVIL we are. I am reminded why I don't like coming
on these comment boards. But I am also reminded why, when I can convince my
wife, I plan to leave this state for ANY other state in the union where I will
actually be appreciated. I for one do not care so much about the pay. In fact, I
risk loosing my wife because I spend soooo much of my own, or I should say, our
own money for the success of my students. I do so because I do care about them.
I too, lose countless nights sleep worrying about them, etc. My pay off is the
incredible degree of ingratitude from the "benevolent" Utahns.
RE:I AM NOT A TEACHER | 7:45 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Go back to school and get a degree. OOPS you would have to go to class and be
taught by a teacher. You see the more education you have the better quality of
life bestowed upon you. It is the way of the world and that is why parents tell
their children to stay in school and or value education so that they can have a
better life when they grow older. Teacher power dude...know it, learn it, live
it and all the while improve you and your families quality of life.
Additionally, you must not be working to hard if you have time to read the over 100 comments posted here and add your weak views. Are you going to tell us in your next post how you have to get up at 5am on the East Coast and go empty garbage. Sorry you didn't stay in school aren't ya! Those gosh darn over paid teachers never helped you did they, poor baby! Typical, getting the idea late in life that school is important. Teach your children this mantra "Be cool, stay in school"!! Perhaps they will be given the opportunities you never had!
Additionally, you must not be working to hard if you have time to read the over 100 comments posted here and add your weak views. Are you going to tell us in your next post how you have to get up at 5am on the East Coast and go empty garbage. Sorry you didn't stay in school aren't ya! Those gosh darn over paid teachers never helped you did they, poor baby! Typical, getting the idea late in life that school is important. Teach your children this mantra "Be cool, stay in school"!! Perhaps they will be given the opportunities you never had!
To: I am not a teacher | 7:52 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Tomorrow morning, arrive at the office early and ask your boss for a raise. Talk
about the contributions you have made. Discuss your willingness to accept more
respobsibility (move up the ladder). You have the freedom to do this - be
grateful. You do not need to wait for the state legislature to determine if you
are worth more money (and then take most of it back in employee benefit
contributions). The amount of your raise need not be tied to the performance of
company employees in another location. If you merit an increase in salary, your
boss can order it done. By the end of the day. Good luck!
Bring them to justice | 7:59 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
What about giving the excess money back to the people it was taken from? The
TAXPAYERS. If teachers want more money let them find another job where they have
to work 12 months each year. Give the teachers a raise from funds the crooked
lawyers/lawmakers save by not giving entitlements to illegal aliens.
Teachers don't work? | 8:19 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
I feel bad for the people that think that teachers do not work as many hours as
Mr. Jon Q. I am a teacher who starts my day at work at 7:00 am. I stay at
school until 5:00 p.m or later most every evening. That makes a 10-12 hour day
almost every school day. Most nights when I leave I take work home to work on
for a couple of hours each night.In my calculations I work 60+ hours a week and
I did not even take into acount all that I do on weekends and hoildays. I do
this becasue I need to plan and prepare academic insrtuction for my students. So
if you think that we get paid so much and work less you are very mistaken.
To: Tired of Being Abused | 8:34 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Consider this:
No teachers?
Your kid's teacher doesn't have a degree?
You own a business and the people you hire have no education or little because there are no teachers or the teachers they did have were not very good?
Every person in the U.S. needs an education to work or do anything, I would think you would want our society to be better educated than any nation on earth.
Now consider this. At the current rate a school teacher could afford to live in a trailer court, raise a family until they were 45, and then, just possibly then, then could get into an entry level house. Great reward for the job?
No teachers?
Your kid's teacher doesn't have a degree?
You own a business and the people you hire have no education or little because there are no teachers or the teachers they did have were not very good?
Every person in the U.S. needs an education to work or do anything, I would think you would want our society to be better educated than any nation on earth.
Now consider this. At the current rate a school teacher could afford to live in a trailer court, raise a family until they were 45, and then, just possibly then, then could get into an entry level house. Great reward for the job?
Reality Check | 8:53 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
I know a guy who used to be an engineer with some big corporations. He decided
to move home and be closer to family. He took a huge pay cut when he got a job
teaching math. He said he has never had a harder job. It changed his views.
Maybe some of you who think it is so easy to teach should try going into a room
with 30 teenagers and have to teach them something. Go ahead, try it. Or are you
scared?
bhparkman | 9:23 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Cut taxes. Us homeschooling families don't benefit from higher teacher pay
- it just leaves our coffers forever.
Serious Challenge | 9:21 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
We have districts bring in a guest lecturer for a day.
Take your favorite subject, create a lesson plan, instruct the kids, work lunch duty, bus duty, and take home all of the assessments and see you at 7:00 tomorrow morning.
The district can kick in $65 per day sub pay, and at the end of the week.
After making the $1300 for the week, we'll let you know if you can make it.
Take your favorite subject, create a lesson plan, instruct the kids, work lunch duty, bus duty, and take home all of the assessments and see you at 7:00 tomorrow morning.
The district can kick in $65 per day sub pay, and at the end of the week.
After making the $1300 for the week, we'll let you know if you can make it.
To all the posting teachers 2 | 9:50 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
I wish I could have chosen a different English teacher. But my parents were
being raped through property taxes and had NO CHOICE but to send me to the
government run public schools.
Private schools wouldn't become public schools. We just wouldn't be paying as much in property taxes. So we'd have more money in our pockets to spend on private schools. The options and choices of private schools would drastically increase if more than only the wealthy parents could send their kids to them. As private schools become more competitive (to more than the wealthy only), more schools will open up. That in turn will draw more of the "good" teachers from public schools to private ones. Then the private schools will have competition between them. That's when you'll see special programs and better teachers evolve. Right now it's an unfair competition, so you don't see any of that happening.
Private schools wouldn't become public schools. We just wouldn't be paying as much in property taxes. So we'd have more money in our pockets to spend on private schools. The options and choices of private schools would drastically increase if more than only the wealthy parents could send their kids to them. As private schools become more competitive (to more than the wealthy only), more schools will open up. That in turn will draw more of the "good" teachers from public schools to private ones. Then the private schools will have competition between them. That's when you'll see special programs and better teachers evolve. Right now it's an unfair competition, so you don't see any of that happening.
To all you posting teachers 3 | 9:59 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Also, check out the grammar and mis-spelled words by all of the teachers on this
board. I'd be more worried about their English skills than someone whose
full-time job isn't teaching kids.
Re: I am not a teacher | 10:05 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Actually I get paid a healthy 6-figure salary as a 27 year old Economics major
from the liberally biased U of U. I proudly chose not to be a teacher, and
currently enjoy working in the finance sector for a very successful company.
Thanks for the attack though.
Again, your attitude confirms that the government fails us by empowering and employing rejects. There are a lot of wonderful teachers out there who do a wonderful job. But you and your attitude would never qualify you to be a part of that crowd.
Again, your attitude confirms that the government fails us by empowering and employing rejects. There are a lot of wonderful teachers out there who do a wonderful job. But you and your attitude would never qualify you to be a part of that crowd.
Washington Teacher | 10:12 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
I have lots of family in Utah and love it down there. But I will never go there
because your pay is horrid for teachers and administrators.
Im a Player, I'm a Player, I'ma | 10:13 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Player!! This state never seizes to amaze me. Tax the corporations as they are
the ones allowing the illegals , give the teachers the raise they deserve,
don't make them feel like they are begging ..they have mouths to feed and
clothe also. It is amazing how they do it. While everyone on the hill goes
around rubbing their fat bellies acting every year the same. Get rid of your
self interest perks then maybe you'll be humble enough to understand! Stop
flattering yourselfs, utah is dead last ..doesn't that bother you?
Fire the Poor Teachers | 10:42 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Education should be run as any other business. Teachers that don't perform
should be fired. Salary adjustments should be based on performance, not some
tenure schedule. If we have a teacher shortage, increase the wage to make it
more attractive.
I'm also tired of teachers whining about not getting enough pay for what they do. It's not like it was some big surprise...."You mean teachers don't make big bucks?...What?" Come one. When you choose a profession, don't you think about what that profession makes? If I choose to have a paper route for my career, should I whine and moan about not being paid enough?
If you are a parent hoping to attract better teachers to teach your children, go ahead and whine, but if you are a teacher complaining about your salary, maybe you should have thought about that when you went to school yourself.
I'm also tired of teachers whining about not getting enough pay for what they do. It's not like it was some big surprise...."You mean teachers don't make big bucks?...What?" Come one. When you choose a profession, don't you think about what that profession makes? If I choose to have a paper route for my career, should I whine and moan about not being paid enough?
If you are a parent hoping to attract better teachers to teach your children, go ahead and whine, but if you are a teacher complaining about your salary, maybe you should have thought about that when you went to school yourself.
Naive Teachers | 10:51 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Haven't you heard what's going on in California? Utah is going to be
RAISING taxes and LAYING OFF teachers.
Captain Obvious | 3:23 a.m. Feb. 21, 2008
Cutting taxes gives teachers a pay raise.
2 baby factories | 7:23 a.m. Feb. 21, 2008
when these collide...the illegals and the legals..the classrooms zoom, you try
working them!
Anonymous | 7:53 a.m. Feb. 21, 2008
A previous poster said that Stephen King couldn't teach. Actually, he was
an English teacher (not in Utah) before becoming famous.
Science Teacher | 8:09 a.m. Feb. 21, 2008
Keep slamming those teachers. We'll see how bad it gets before you beg the
state to take your rugrats at any cost.
I've been in the real world. Teaching is MUCH harder and less rewarding. We are constantly buffetted every single day with the negative. The highs only come every so often.
Knowing that the parents of the kids I teach don't want me here (that I should get a "real" job) makes me want to leave and get paid much more. Oh... but my position is already lacking qualified teachers. Let's see you convince another person graduating with a science degree to take a job that pays half as well as all the other offers.
With idiots like you behind the scenes, I forsee the downward trend continuing.
I've been in the real world. Teaching is MUCH harder and less rewarding. We are constantly buffetted every single day with the negative. The highs only come every so often.
Knowing that the parents of the kids I teach don't want me here (that I should get a "real" job) makes me want to leave and get paid much more. Oh... but my position is already lacking qualified teachers. Let's see you convince another person graduating with a science degree to take a job that pays half as well as all the other offers.
With idiots like you behind the scenes, I forsee the downward trend continuing.
Privatization | 8:04 a.m. Feb. 21, 2008
Privatization is the way to go. Lower taxes, make families internalize the cost
of their children's education, and let good teachers follow the money.
Blue | 8:15 a.m. Feb. 21, 2008
Everyone is dodging the issue. Define what good pay is then we'll have a
discussion as to wheather or not teachers are paid enough or not.
Thank you, Thank you | 9:27 a.m. Feb. 21, 2008
Thank you, teachers, for all you do. I look back on my education and I remember
so many great teachers -- a few not so great -- but that only made me appreciate
the good ones more. Thanks for being tough and holding me to a higher standard
-- making me think deeper and more broadly. Asking me to look at the world at
large in a different light than what my own little world held. Thanks for
exposing me to new ideas. Teachers are the ones -- next to parents only -- who
influence children the most. They deserve a great big thank you every day for
their efforts and more support from the community and parents. It's easy
to place blame -- harder to get involved and make a difference. If everyone who
complained on this blog would spend 1 or 2 hours a week volunteering in a
school, we could accomplish great things!
Science Teacher | 11:22 a.m. Feb. 21, 2008
What is good pay?
That's determined by the market. When you have teacher shortages and your graduating classes leave in droves for other locales, I'd say you need to up the pay.
When you have 20 highly qualifed applicants for every position, then you've reached a good point. Right now, with all the shortages and math and science teachers leaving for the "real" world, pay needs to go up.
That's Econ 101.
That's determined by the market. When you have teacher shortages and your graduating classes leave in droves for other locales, I'd say you need to up the pay.
When you have 20 highly qualifed applicants for every position, then you've reached a good point. Right now, with all the shortages and math and science teachers leaving for the "real" world, pay needs to go up.
That's Econ 101.
Re:Science Teacher | 12:59 p.m. Feb. 21, 2008
Best response so far.
If the school district has 20 applications for an English teacher, the pay for that position is either too high, or at market value.
If you have very few applications for a Math teacher, then that neeeds to be addressed.
Unfortunately, teachers are lumped in together. The 'real world' value of a Math teacher is not the same as an Art teacher. I know, how uncouth and un-PC of me - but this is a fact.
A civil engineer, chemical, electrical, landscaping and custodial engineer do not make the same pay. Why? Because economic forces dictate their salary. However, all teachers are treated as 'equal'; even though a logical analysis would conclude that they are not. Math and Science are hard, and have 'real world' implications. Music, Art, Social Studies and History have little value in the 'real world'.
I know it sounds harsh - but I have never heard of a Doctor saying "It sure was a good thing I got an 'A' in Band, or I would have never made it into medical school'.
If the school district has 20 applications for an English teacher, the pay for that position is either too high, or at market value.
If you have very few applications for a Math teacher, then that neeeds to be addressed.
Unfortunately, teachers are lumped in together. The 'real world' value of a Math teacher is not the same as an Art teacher. I know, how uncouth and un-PC of me - but this is a fact.
A civil engineer, chemical, electrical, landscaping and custodial engineer do not make the same pay. Why? Because economic forces dictate their salary. However, all teachers are treated as 'equal'; even though a logical analysis would conclude that they are not. Math and Science are hard, and have 'real world' implications. Music, Art, Social Studies and History have little value in the 'real world'.
I know it sounds harsh - but I have never heard of a Doctor saying "It sure was a good thing I got an 'A' in Band, or I would have never made it into medical school'.
Science Teacher | 2:16 p.m. Feb. 21, 2008
I don't agree with that. Economic forces dictate who gets paid more, but
don't necessarily tell us the value of each job. I don't believe I
should be paid any more than the band teacher or the German teacher. We've
all put in the same hours, all have at least a bachelor's, all go to the
same training and certification, and all have to deal with the same kids.
I have a Spanish degree and teach Science. I don't think either is "harder". I really don't want to apply economics when valuing curriculum. All have merit.
I have a Spanish degree and teach Science. I don't think either is "harder". I really don't want to apply economics when valuing curriculum. All have merit.
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Teachers are propping up the economy. If we were not teaching your children so you could work and turn your dollars in the market place the economy would go bust.
Good luck.