Deseret News | Reader comments: New east-west Utah County route urged

Reader comments
New east-west Utah County route urged

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OC Surfer | 3:53 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Pony Express Parkway should really be a freeway from I-15 going though Eagle Mountain connecting with Tooele and I-80.

Bob G | 5:19 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

The cities and county should have thought of this in the beginning before allowing developement. The developers should have been made to provide needed roads before developement, at the developers cost and included in the cost of the homes. Too much hindsight and graft in Utah government in this uncontrolled growth that is depleting all our natural resources, namely water, electrical power, natural gas etc.. What is the state going to do when there is no water, power, or gas? Hindsight and shortsighted developement is not good economics that overburdens all taxpayers and governments ability to properly develope the state of Utah. The only needs considered is the profits of develpers. Utah needs better jobs than those of servicing others that eat out, watch movies, and shop with money they don't have. Utah needs developement in manufacturing and production of goods, not a restaruant worker or bed maker and jobs with no value or security. An economy based on building homes no one can afford is not a stable economy, its a fixed economy with limited growth with no lasting value or growth in long term jobs.

TexasPat | 5:53 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Why not have a ferry over Utah lake from Saratoga Hot Springs to Geneva Iron Works. If they can ferry accross Pugent Sound, they can ferry in Utah.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 7:28 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

texas man. Have you ever even had to use a ferry to commute? Its about as good of an Idea as the Lehi mayors of drilling a tunnel through two mountains to make the commute from eagle mountain into orem and also to slc easier.

EG | 7:33 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

A possible alternative route for access to the Cedar Fort / Eagle Mtn area is from Herriman thru Rose Canyon and West Canyon. There is a road there now that at one time was a desiganted county road. Properly designed and implemented this route could offer both an alternate route and a scenic drive.

M Butler | 7:40 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

When will the folks out there learn what every roadbuilder in the last half century should have learned? One more road doesn't solve congestion--it just draws more traffic, leading to more congestion.

It's time for someone with some brains to start moving development in a direction that doesn't require everybody to park his backside in a ton of steel and plastic and drive everywhere he needs to go.

Priority | 7:51 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

A lot has to do with UDOT priorities. Rather than build roads based on need, we build roads based on politics. Salt Lake County is already complaining about the I-15 rebuild in Utah County because they are afraid it will take from their planned road projects, even though they have sucked the majority of road money into Salt Lake County for the last two decades. This is where the problem truly lies.

TrickyD | 8:11 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

And for all these comments, as soon as a plan is pronounced and is moved forward, everyone affected or who thinks they'll be affected will stand up and shout: "Not in my backyard. Take your road elsewhere." Look at the Mountainview Corridor for proof.

How is this a problem? | 8:22 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

I chose NOT TO MOVE to Saratoga because of the commute times. And that decision was made FOUR YEARS ago, long before it was a terrible drive. People knew what they were buying into when they chose to move out there, so QUIT COMPLAINING. I grew up in west Lehi so I was eager to move back out that direction, but the traffic problems were too big to entice me to a slightly bigger, slightly cheaper house. And the thought that government would move quickly and build roads before growth happens is TRULY LAUGHABLE. The cost to build before growth can never be justified, THAT'S WHY THEY WAIT TO BUILD ROADS. As far as I'm concerned, build big roads to get people around Lehi and then let them fight it out once they get past Lehi. Those roads have always been problems and will continue to be trouble at least 5 years into the future. If you live out west you'd better either get used to bad traffic or sell your house as soon as you can!

Matthew | 8:50 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

So it is all governments fault. Those good people that bought all those nice new houses should have asked themselves some questions about roadways and plans for future roadways. Everybody wants to complain about government wasting money on someone else's problem and also complain about government not wasting money on their problem. Stop complaining and start thinking and being involved. Be part of the solution, not part of the complaining and the problem.

"No situation is so bad that complaining can't make it worse." Can anyone tell me where I'm getting that quote from?

Reader | 8:59 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

"Many say that more than one road than state Route 73, which also is known as Lehi's Main Street...."

Do newspapers (either print or internet-based) no longer employ editors?

Tyler | 9:00 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

You moved there, you have to live with the complications associated with your commute. Maybe you should put a 72 hour kit in your car, in case you get stranded in another snow storm. By the time you get a road out there, half the town will have moved out.

LOL! | 9:45 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Have you seen those bumper stickers that say "Trees are the answer?" Well I think a better one would say "Roads are the answer."

We need more roads! We need larger homes on larger lots for larger cars and larger kids. Bigger! Bigger! More! More! More!

More Roads | 9:57 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

With all the talk of a budget surplus, why not use it to build some roads in Utah County. The roads have to be built based on need. Those that argue that people knew the road conditions before they moved there and should live with it, need to ask what conditions were like in their area before the population moved there. My neighborhood growing up had few roads when we first moved there, now that has changed. With Eagle Mountain projecting EVEN MORE growth, roads need to be built.
SR-73 also never gets plowed. Why not use some of this surplus to plow roads.

2nd Route | 9:59 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Whether a second road will help traffic or not, a second road is needed in the case of emergency, like what happened last week, or a mass evacuation. Just simple safety alone should dictate the need for a second road.

Bucko | 10:04 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

We want our road! We want it now! And we don't care what the citizens of Lehi think!

Lehi Resident | 10:16 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

The congestion is the price you pay for finding a cheap big house in the middle of nowhere. I paid a larger mortgage to be closer to I-15. It is all a matter of priorities and common sense. Eagle Mountain and Saratoga Springs residents should have known what they were getting in to and should not be whining now that they don't like the choice they made.

Concerned Taxpayer | 10:33 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Everyone is always looking to the government to solve their problems. Start a new program, build a new road or create a walking trail. Whatever it is we need to wake up and realize that government does not have the money to solve all of our problems. If they do have the money, by the time they put it through 20 committees and had a hundred meetings on the subject the cost has now trippled and now they can't afford to do it. You've got to let private enterprise come in and get the job done. Let private enterprise build a toll road across Utah Lake so it doesn't use taxpayers money and that way the people using it can pay for it as well as enjoy a non congested 5 minute trip across the lake to the Orem/Provo area. UDOT is spent out for the next 20 years so don't expect a miracle from them. If you want something done quicker and economically feasable then get behind private enterprise's that want to come in and solve a problem. Let UDOT fix and maintain the roads we already have in place.

Ha Ha a ferry | 10:45 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

A ferry across Utah Lake. Don't make me laugh. It will never work. First of all the Puget Sound is a lot deeper than the 6 to 8 feet deep across the lake from Saratoga Springs to Orem. By the time they loaded up (if they could get a ferry on the lake) and got on their way people driving in the congestion for over an hour would have already beat the ferry. The ferry on Puget sound travels over to Vancouver Island. That's right an Island meaning it is surrounded by water. The only way to travel with your cars is to take the ferry. Maybe if we add some theaters and a food court on the ferry it would work. I'm all about watching a movie and eating some popcorn before I get to work. How about trying to make some practical suggestions on here instead of blurting out the first stupid thought that enters into your mind.

free market | 10:58 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

I agree with concerned taxpayer. Let a private company build a toll road across the lake. Only the people who use it would pay for it and if I lived out there, I'd sure be happy to pay for a quicker commute.

It is called growth | 11:03 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Guess what, the population of Utah is growing. Growth means more houses. More houses means more roads. Back 20-30 years ago, when the population was 500,000, these weren't big problems. We're goign to hit 3 million in another decade or two. We will need more infrastructure.

Also, if all those people didn't live west in Saratoga or Eagle Mountain, Where would they live? Is there really room for those 8000+ houses right along 1-15 in Utah county or even SL or Davis counties? We are nearly out of room in Utah County. West is all there is left, so it is going to fill up. The people on the east side probably don't deserve their roads either, I guess.

Govt. Accounting | 11:11 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

As an accounting student I was required to take a course in govt. accounting. I learned that each level of govt. has multiple funds (ie general fund, capital improvements fund, etc.) Money coming in from different types of taxes are assigned to these different funds and must be used for specific purposes. The suggestion that the surplus be used on roads may not be a possibility because of the fund in which it is held. Personally, I think the entire system of govt. accounting is stupid but for those who are unaware of how it works I thought I'd just throw this out there.

To Free Market | 11:14 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Well then, why dont you move down here, or why not build a toll road to your house? One of my favorite things in Utah is no toll roads. When I have traveled, I hated the toll roads, and as one to never carry cash, it is even worse.

Eagle Mountain Resident | 11:20 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Having worked in the civil engineering field, I know the work involved in creating a road. UDOT is not the only party involved to get a road built. And the idea that a private company could build a toll road across utah lake is laughable. The environmental report alone could take a decade to complete, let alone all the approvals needed from cities, county, state, and federal agencies. also you are forgetting about the lawsuits for environmental & special interest groups that would keep this from construction for decades. making 1000 South to Pony Express would help move some traffic. Moving Mountain View between EM and Cedar Fort would be nice, but then we get to have all the nice noise and move air pollution that the cedar valley does not need.

Real Estate Devleoper | 11:17 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

I had the opportunity three years ago to purchase Mount Saratoga, which was planned for 1,800 housing units and a championship golf course at a $65 million price tag. I chose not to pursue the acqusition because the ingress/egress from I-15 to the site was very inadequate and I felt that project would only exacerbate the access problem.

Access is still very inadequate, and serves as a deterent to future growth on the west side of Utah Lake. However, those who live in S.S. and E.M. purchased property at a fraction of the price of similar property closer to I-15.

The government is not in the business of subsidizing middle-class housing, which is exactly what a government-funded road project would do. Property values would rise as a result of improved access, and the citizens of Utah would be providing equity appreciation to all current S.S. and E.M. residents. That is inequitable public policy and a free handout for S.S. and E.M. residents.

Real Estate Developer?? | 11:27 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

I am afraid I do not understand your argument...are you saying the because a road would increase property values, the government cannot build a road there? If that were the case, the government could not build any roads, because easy access to ANYWHERE would only increase property values.

Re: Its Called Growth | 11:35 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

I agree! Where else are all the people going to live? West is the only way to go, and people will move there, and as such will need better roads. Wasn't Bangerter Highway built because of the expansion to the west? As population continues to grow, more infrastructure will be needed. A one lane road going north south and a one lane road going east west is not enough for the people in SS or EM to access the freeway or their homes. Whether or not the homes were bought at a fraction of the price as those in Lehi is irrelevant. Many of those homes in Lehi were bought at a fraction of the price because those in Lehi did not want to pay the higher house costs of SLC or Provo, so why not cut off access to I15 for those folks as well? The same argument to live in Lehi as opposed to Provo or SLC can be made for those in SS or EM.

Pro-Toll | 11:41 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

I just moved here from SoCal and I chose my house based on my work commute. I am right near the 15 and am sure I paid a premium for that.

I won't take the higher road and tell people in outlying communities to get over anything. They made a choice and sometimes it's not as good as we think it will be. We convince ourselves that "surely they'll build a road here. They have to." Unfortunately, those pipe dreams always take longer than we think.

But I am pro-toll road. They have built a few in Orange County CA because the gov couldn't afford it. The rule is that the toll company builds it and gets 10 years to charge toll. Then after that the gov takes ownership of the upkeep and it is no longer toll. I thought it was brilliant. It moved things along and private has a chance to recoup their investment. I think that idea would be very feasible here.

Choices | 11:52 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

It all boils down to a matter of choice. I chose to buy a home that was a 7 minute commute from my workplace. My price for that choice was a smaller, older house. People are free to live where they want. If they choose to buy a home out west they will get a larger, newer home. The price they pay is a long, ugly commute. I am not asking anyone to help finance a large addition to my home. Likewise, I don't think anyone should ask me for help relieving their commuting frustration.

Toll Roads | 11:54 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Not such a bad idea, really. But don't use private contractors to build a toll road and don't try the Utah Lake idea, at least not now. Build a toll road or maybe even 2 for access to EM and SS areas, one on the north side of Lehi and one on the south side and extend them as far as possible to the west and maybe even over to Tooele.

Let the State build the roads and then turn them over to private contractors to run the toll portion. That way the people who use the roads would be the ones to pay for them. Equitable enough idea I would think.

Travelers to and from those areas could choose whether they want to pay the toll or use the old roads for free and live with the slower traffic. As for not carrying money with you, there could be a "pass" system where users buy monthly or yearly passes that can be electronically screened.

jr | 12:01 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

It always amazes me of the arrogance of the people that live on the east side of any valley in Utah, time for them to face life and realize they are no better than anybody else and we all can't live on the East side, there ain't no more room at the inn. The people out west pay taxes both property and gas so why not build a decent highway to make commuting easier and safer. Choices of where we live are drying up - time for everyone to show compassion to the legal citizens of Utah county and provide for them with their taxes

Awesome Idea | 12:04 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Why doesn't the government just stop building roads and upkeep altogether nad turn it ALL over to the private sector. That way ANY road that get used is only used by those who use them. I just love the idea of having to pay $2 to park at my own house each night.
My taxes have gone to finance huge portions of road construction that I will never personally use, so why can't I use some of my tax dollars to build a road that I will actually use.
But with my proposed idea, no tax dollars will ever get used again for roads, and we can back to more important things like paying congressmen to hold hearings on professional athletes about drug use.

Real Estate Developer | 12:09 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

My argument is that the current residents purchased property knowing that there is limited infrastructure providing access to their property. The state road that existed previously was adequate for the needs of the state. However, growth has created constraints on that road and residents are now expecting the government to pay for THEIR convenience. This problem belongs to those who created and benefitted from the growth, NOT the government. THEY should fund new infrastructure that will benefit ONLY them.

This funding would have been most easily achieved when development originally began in the form of public bond issuances from the local municipalities, combined with impact fees from developers and property owners. Unfortunately, the lack of master planning by developers and municipalities has led to the current problem.

I am a firm believer that roads and public infrastructure are tremendous vehicles for economic growth. That said, those who will benefit from the economic development created through new roads should be the responsible parties for funding that infrastructure.

For example, I recently funded a $2 million public works project for a local municipality that will enable my property to now be developed. That is how roads and infrastructure should be funded.

VOR | 12:13 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Bravo M Butler. The people who CHOOSE to live in the hinterlands should either suck it up or find a line of work that allows them to stay home. Throwing more freeways at our transportation problem only adds to its woes.

For the 2nd poster, one development doesn't pay for roads, and in the State of Utah, it's near impossible for agencies (county, city) to collect street impact fees, unlike impact fees for water and sewer, which are quantifiable. You can thank Rep. Al Mansel for that one. However, cities are to blame as well for this problem. Strict zoning that establishes asinine lot size requirements doesn't help, and only pushes development outward, creating more of a problem than solving one. We've created these suburban hells with no identity and no sense of community, all in the name of preserving a "rural" lifestyle that hasn't existed since the 60's. There is nothing "rural" about the Wasatch Front, in fact it's quite urban. So this notion of protecting of something that doesn't exist in the first place, has only sought to worsen our infrastructure and transportation problems. Lovely.

Z | 12:13 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

I have to laugh every time I see the liberals trot out the old canard "Building roads causes congestion." As has already been pointed out, people bought houses in SS and EM because they were less expensive (i.e. affordable). Economics is the driving force here, and as long as people are moving to Utah or staying in Utah in search of jobs, our communities will continue to grow, and we will have to add infrastructure to support them. We can either do it now while congestion is manageable, or later when it is unmangeable.

Anonymous | 12:20 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

We are paying and estimated $30 to $60,000,000 in federal taxes and $10 to $20,000,000 a year in state taxes! The state is sitting on a surplus of almost $1 billion! The cost to build a road from the I-15 to Redwood Road and to expand SR73 from Redwood Eagle Mountain would be very modest. When this storm hit, we had no way to get to a hospital. Every day we sit in traffic going to Am Fork and then returning to our homes.
It is time for us to organize and start voting for new representative to representative Eagle Mountainnt and Saratoga Springs in the state government.

To VOR | 12:28 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

The bill the Senator Al Mansell sponsored regulating impact fees was to ensure that local govenments were using impact fees for their intended use. Multiple studies that cities were charging "impact fees" for specific categories, and then were using those "impact fees" to add headcount and pay wages. As such, the "impact" was never addressed as funds were misused (surprise surprise!).

To Anonymous | 12:38 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

I sympathize with you frustration, but you chose to live in a remote area with limited services. You need to be accountable for your choices.

Bucko | 12:39 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

No one is listening to us! We want a road! We want it now! It doesn't matter what Lehi wants!

Common Sense | 12:44 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

To Real Estate Developer.

Get real. The people in S.S. and E.M. pay taxes too, why can't some of their taxes go to pay for roads in their cities? Also to those of you that complain that nobody should be living out there. Where would everbody live then? Should we cram three or four families into an apartment so that no more roads have to be built? The people that made their wages building those homes and streets and providing mortgage loans also benefitted from people moving out there. So of these posts on this page, so no common sense.

Go Back Where You Came From | 1:03 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Are you kidding me? You all made the decision to move to the country, when you KNEW the road situation. Now you want to turn the country into the city you moved from for YOUR convenience. TOO BAD!!! Go back to the city where you came from and stop your whining! And do you really think that another route would have saved you from the storm? NOT!!! You would have been stuck on one or the other.

To Common Sense | 1:06 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

It's a good thing you pay taxes - otherwise you would be in jail.

The question is whether it serves the greater good to provide a benefit to such a small minority. I agree with Real Estate Developer - You created the problem - you should solve it, not me or any other tax payer.

To Go Back Where You Came From | 1:14 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Sir, I would love to move back to Salt Lake County. But being young, newely married and have two kids under two, I cannot afford it. Rather, I went a found a modest starter home my wife and I could afford. Would you have rather I moved to Salt Lake County, buy a home I could not afford and be apart of this forclosure bailout the government is now trying to fix? I humbly apologize for not having the income necessary to have a home there, and will try to find a better paying job then my current salary as a Sergeant in the US Army. Are you hiring?

William Scott | 1:17 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Real Estate Developer said, "those who will benefit from the economic development created through new roads should be the responsible parties for funding that infrastructure."

AMEN! HALLELUJAH! FINALLY A VOICE OF REASON!

The price tag for bad private sector decisions should not be borne by the general public. Let's use our tax dollars to educate our children, not bail out speculative real estate investors!

Multiple Routes | 1:14 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

No, you are right, the storm would have still come whether or not there was one, two or a hundred roads into Eagle Mountain. But, with a 16 car pile up and the ONLY road into the city being closed, and I15 being closed at point of the mountain, there was no way in or out. If there was another road, traffic would have been bad, but people could have at least gotten home. What if someone had a heart attack, the only road in or out was closed. That is a serious safety hazard that the government needs to fix. Yes, the government has the responsibility to protect Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness (or according to Locke, property). I think removing safety hazards falls under Life. Able to access your property (ding 2 for 3) is governments job as well.

Small Minority? | 1:17 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Sir, do you have multiple ways in and out of your neigborhood? You, and those that live in your area are also a small minority, but a MAJORITY have more than one road into their house. EM and SS are growing because the population is. I would love to live in a more populated, more developed area, can I move into your house?

Time to stop building roads | 1:23 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

The world isn't running out of oil. What it is running out of, right now, is the ability to increase it's daily oil supply. Our country is also losing it's ability to demand it's traditional 25% share of that now limited supply. This means there will be less, not more automobile use in the future regardless of population growth. We will have no choice but to figure out how to conduct our lives on far less than our customary 12000 vehicle miles per person per year. This is particularly grim news for those of you who have chosen to live dozens of miles from where you must go everyday, in places with no public transit options.
We will be abandoning the project of road expansion as usage and revenue drops and begin a process of road maintenence triage. We will fix what we must, put off what we can, and abandon what we don't need.

Oil is back over $100/barrel today for a reason. It has a lot farther to climb.

Huh??? | 1:42 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Multiple Routes wrote:

"That is a serious safety hazard that the government needs to fix."

Why do I need to fix it since I fund the government with my tax dollars? It's the fault of the developers, home purchasers that they're in thier perdicament not mine. But you know what's best for MY money don't you. Just like any good commie....

Unbelievable | 2:02 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

I find it unbelievable how many of you that live in the city with already developed roads and a transportation system have such animosity for those that live in developing areas. People that live in developing areas pay taxes too. Those taxes pay for roads and mass transit most of which are presently and historically in the SLC corridor. Now EM and SS residents are asking for just a little bit of their share of the transportation budget so that they can expand their access to the valley. This is only fair. Don't tell me you don't want YOUR tax dollars spent on SS and EM transportation infrastructure. Not after SS and EM residents have been paying for your infrastructure for years. Shame on you all!

Multiple Routes | 1:58 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008

Commie? I was quoting the Declaration of Independence and John Locke (founder of modern democracy).
Let's just hope it isnt you stuck in an emergency (which my tax dollars fund the ambulance to save YOUR life, as well as the EMT), your spouse or anyone you love.
I guess I am wrong about government, what is the best interest of the people doesnt matter, but the almighty dollar.

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