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Senator fine-tuning immigration measure
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Lee | 12:59 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Any version of this bill that would be supported by the Chamber of Commerce
would be totally useless. This is the wrong approach. I don't see
Senators going up to the prison to get their approval on a bill that adjusts
punishments for various offenses? Why should the people who are blatantly
breaking the immigration law for profit have any say in how Utah enforces those
laws?
Brett | 1:43 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
It's too bad that Sen. Hickman feels it necessary to modify his common
sense bill before it will pass. It's also troubling to think that Gov.
Huntsman would threaten a veto of this bill. I hope that the amendments to this
bill will not gut it of its effectiveness. With our useless federal government,
the legislature can make some positive steps to mitigate the problems we have
with illegal immigrants.
pos | 5:41 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
These measures have been blocked for 5 years. 5 long years the peoples voice has
been ignored. Now the Salt Lake Chamber of Commerce wants a Task Force
who's only purpose is to delay it another year. It's a stalling
tactic, and it comes at the wrong time as other states are passing much tougher
laws.
Does anyone have a list of names that supports the task force? I think the workers of Utah should have a right to know who they are, since it's the workers that will suffer the most.
Does anyone have a list of names that supports the task force? I think the workers of Utah should have a right to know who they are, since it's the workers that will suffer the most.
Comments continue below
Church wins | 6:28 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Message received. Measure twice, cut the meat out of the bill. The 1,000 pound
gorilla wins.
dashed hope | 6:31 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
So was this just grandstanding by Hickman? I guess we'll find out how
watered down it will be tomorrow.
Shamrock | 6:51 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
I can make a "nice piece of legislation" right here and now.
DEPORT THE ILLEGALS AND TELL THEM TO COME BACK THE RIGHT WAY.
Now who can't call that nice?
DEPORT THE ILLEGALS AND TELL THEM TO COME BACK THE RIGHT WAY.
Now who can't call that nice?
Henry K. | 6:51 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Task force from the chamber of commerce?? Gov. huntsman ready to veto the will
of the people?? I guess we have waited too long to hold politicians and special
interest groups accountable for their actions. WE WANT SR81 passed and not
vetoed this year. Illegal alien lawbreakers must learn that in Utah we hold
ourselves accountable to the law.
FG | 7:39 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
My suggestion. The Salt Lake Chamber of Commerce represents only a portion of
the businesses in Salt Lake City. Go to their website at saltlakechamber.org and
look at the 400 businesses that belong to it. If you find companies that you do
business with, then stop. And better yet, call them and tell them why you no
longer do business with them. Tell them that as a worker in the state of Utah,
you strongly disagree with their use of a non-profit organization that protects
a few businesses that support people who break the law. Then shop at companies
that do not belong to the Chamber.
You can do a google search for your legislators email. Do it, I did. And my Senator was nice enough to email me back. Come election time vote your pocketbook. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and Utah is no exception. It's time to get legislatures that not only protect the business interests, but also the workers (and voters) of Utah.
You can do a google search for your legislators email. Do it, I did. And my Senator was nice enough to email me back. Come election time vote your pocketbook. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and Utah is no exception. It's time to get legislatures that not only protect the business interests, but also the workers (and voters) of Utah.
The Raven | 8:56 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Illegal immigration is a problem. The legislature needs to act and crack down on
everyone involved in encouraging illegal immigration, especially businesses. I
can understand Elder Ballard's opposition to repealing in-state tuition for
the children of illegals. However, I cannot understand how any religious person
(Protestant, Catholic, LDS, etc.) can say illegal immigration is ok. Illegal
immigration involves lying, dishonesty, and the use of fraudulent documents.
Today's DesNews has an article about a military man who lied about his
service in order to impress people and get promotions. He was punished. And, he
should have been punished. So should those who lie about their right to work
here. So should businessmen who assist them in this dishonesty.
WatchDog | 9:15 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Why would any "law abiding" business be concerned about this bill? It
ONLY deals with those despicible, greedy employers who are willing to hire
illegal aliens - and treat them as slave labor.
Seems that this fix is LONG overdue!
Seems that this fix is LONG overdue!
FG | 9:32 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Both major newspapers in Salt Lake City are members of the Salt Lake Chamber of
Commerce.
unbelievable | 10:17 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Why don't Senators Hickman and Valentine just let church and business
leaders write the bill. While I respect their early effort and initiative, it
seems they've totally caved to special interests. It is absolutely
unforgivable to remove the provision that would punish businesses for hiring
illegal immigrants. It seems this bill has become less than worthless.
Concerned with Myths | 10:23 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
The idea that the Chamber is interested in helping businesses hire illegals is
absurd. The Chamber understands that the price of hamburgers will double when
slaughter houses can't find anybody to work, even when they are paying much
more than minimum wage. This goes for every manufacturer, construction company,
the agriculture industry and virtually every sector of our economy. To accuse
these businesses of hiring illegals and paying them under the table is very
unsophisticated and ignores facts and reality. However inaccurate these
accusations may be, it seems that many, if not most hear them and fall for them.
They are untrue. If you know of any companies knowingly hiring illegals, do us
all a favor and report them. It is red meat for the masses, but nobody can name
the companies who are allegedly breaking the law in this regard.
Furthermore, it is unanimous amongst our community's religions that repealing the law that grants undocumented children the ability to obtain higher education at in-state rates is the wrong action. Legislators would be well served to hear the moral conscience of the community.
Furthermore, it is unanimous amongst our community's religions that repealing the law that grants undocumented children the ability to obtain higher education at in-state rates is the wrong action. Legislators would be well served to hear the moral conscience of the community.
Closer look | 10:55 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
I think the identification clause was just horrible. The provision making the
feeding, sheltering and transporting of persons was plain mean spirited.
But the provisions against the employers are the single most important part of any legislation. More important than deputizing police officers, or in-state tuition.
By gutting what I see is the most critical part of the bill, penalizing employers, it shows that the legislature isn't really concerned about solving immigration, but tacitly supporting illegal immigrants employment and at the same time treating them like crap. It is a double standard. You can't have it both ways. If you support employers, then treat immigrants like humans.
But the provisions against the employers are the single most important part of any legislation. More important than deputizing police officers, or in-state tuition.
By gutting what I see is the most critical part of the bill, penalizing employers, it shows that the legislature isn't really concerned about solving immigration, but tacitly supporting illegal immigrants employment and at the same time treating them like crap. It is a double standard. You can't have it both ways. If you support employers, then treat immigrants like humans.
Anonymous | 11:11 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Concerned with Myths: You contradict yourself. Why would the price go up if we
export the illegals back to their countries and keep the legal immigrants? Are
you saying it's just the illegals that work in these fields? Notice the
majority of the people working at the two businesses were legal citizens. Any
organization that supports illegal actions by people who are here through
breaking the law deserves the real workers wrath.
The Chamber needs to re-think their actions in supporting the illegal entry of people into this country. They would not like it if the legal residents shoplift in their stores, yet they condone the illegal entry of people who come here and steal from the honest workers. It's a double edge sword.
The Chamber needs to re-think their actions in supporting the illegal entry of people into this country. They would not like it if the legal residents shoplift in their stores, yet they condone the illegal entry of people who come here and steal from the honest workers. It's a double edge sword.
Medicare Kid | 11:59 a.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Another subsidy as the business, construction, and farm folks steal from the
rest of us out of the public trough by hiring illegal aliens. We have to pay the
taxes to support the illegal's education, their health care, and the cost
of crime and prisons while they pass these costs off to us. Enough is enough.
Why don't we just stop paying taxes. That's illegal too.
Populism is funny stuff | 1:36 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
I agree with Concerned about Myths. The everyday Joe's who hate business
(Midicare Kid) are very emotionally appealing to the rest of the everyday
Joe's (populism), however it is akin to biting the hand that feeds you.
This isn't about "special interests," rather it is about a
workfoce shortage. There are no citizens who will take these jobs.
Anonymous,
Your logic is poor. How does Concerned with Myths contradict himself. He's asserting that employer enforcement of federal law will cost a lot of money to the economy, especially considering the workforce issue. That is when you populist folks are going to feel the crunch... when you have to pay a lot more for items and services that have previously been affordable.
I hear a lot of generalizations, but nobody is pointing out employers (Bad Guys for you populist folks) who are breaking the law. Also, can you show us which Utahns want jobs in the slaughter house, but can't get hired? Bring those folks forward.
Anonymous,
Your logic is poor. How does Concerned with Myths contradict himself. He's asserting that employer enforcement of federal law will cost a lot of money to the economy, especially considering the workforce issue. That is when you populist folks are going to feel the crunch... when you have to pay a lot more for items and services that have previously been affordable.
I hear a lot of generalizations, but nobody is pointing out employers (Bad Guys for you populist folks) who are breaking the law. Also, can you show us which Utahns want jobs in the slaughter house, but can't get hired? Bring those folks forward.
anon | 2:09 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Populism is funny stuff: You are forgetting the difference between illegal entry
and lawful immigration. Legal immigration helps, unlawful entry is a crime and
it costs society.
Concerned with Myths statement that "The idea that the Chamber is interested in helping businesses hire illegals is absurd."
It is a contradiction pisf, that's exactly what they are doing. No one has said that we don't need controlled immigration and that these business are helped by it. We are saying that illegal entry is wrong, and when the Chamber endorses it by denying support for inforcement, it puts them on the side of the lawbreakers. For the past several years the pro-illegal group has clouded the issue by claiming people that are against illegal entry are against immigration. The opposite is true. We know the law and the right way to do things, does Utah's business community?
Concerned with Myths statement that "The idea that the Chamber is interested in helping businesses hire illegals is absurd."
It is a contradiction pisf, that's exactly what they are doing. No one has said that we don't need controlled immigration and that these business are helped by it. We are saying that illegal entry is wrong, and when the Chamber endorses it by denying support for inforcement, it puts them on the side of the lawbreakers. For the past several years the pro-illegal group has clouded the issue by claiming people that are against illegal entry are against immigration. The opposite is true. We know the law and the right way to do things, does Utah's business community?
Anonymous | 2:25 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
PIFS: Wanting people to squeel on business in a public forum is not the way to
do things. For the business sake and also for the person. There are legal
implications at work here. As for the "slaughter houses" I guess you
forgot that the two companies raided had a majority of legal workers.
That fact has been brought forward in these forums several times.
That fact has been brought forward in these forums several times.
John Walker | 3:32 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
As a Utah resident living in Germany I can tell you that immigration laws in the
rest of the world are much more strict than in the United States. Here you have
to take classes in the language, history and constitution.
Illegally going into a country is a major crime and if you work in that country the jail time can be over 10 years. Once released you are expelled and denied a passport for much of Europe
I will be returning home in a few months and I hope by then our business, Government and my Church will be setting an example by condemning illegal actions in all aspects of our life equally.
Illegally going into a country is a major crime and if you work in that country the jail time can be over 10 years. Once released you are expelled and denied a passport for much of Europe
I will be returning home in a few months and I hope by then our business, Government and my Church will be setting an example by condemning illegal actions in all aspects of our life equally.
think twice | 4:45 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
To characterize illegal immigrants as simply hard-working families is simplistic
if not deliberately misleading. Of course there are these upstanding
individuals, but also drug dealers, gang members, smugglers, abusers, rapists,
drunk drivers, thieves, etc. In any case, people who are here illegally
can't be expected to act in the best interests of our community. They will
always be primarily concerned with not calling attention to themselves or
getting deported. Furthermore, they are often forced into breaking more and more
laws such as identify theft, driving without a license or insurance, fraud,
etc.
Immigration is undoubtedly a positive thing for this country overall. But we should think twice about allowing tens of thousands of illegal aliens into our state. Just go to KSL, the Trib or D-News and search for "illegal immigrant" or "gang" and you'll see why.
Immigration is undoubtedly a positive thing for this country overall. But we should think twice about allowing tens of thousands of illegal aliens into our state. Just go to KSL, the Trib or D-News and search for "illegal immigrant" or "gang" and you'll see why.
Anonymous | 4:45 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Until the bright well educated hispanic leaders start staying in their own
country and helping their own people these problems will exist. The Hispanics in
the Untited States are well organized and have several organizations looking out
for them. If they took their organization skills back to their homeland they
would be able to truely help those that need it.
Jerry K. | 4:52 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
We need to "fine tune" the chamber of commerce and the govenor to
understand and support the majority of Utahns . Their interference in this
important matter reflects personal desires over the will of the people. Where
are you George Washington when we need you!
WatchDog | 5:16 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
Some time back, in an effort to get to the truth instead of nonsense, I did a
bit of a study on the price of a head of lettuce. At the time, a head of
lettuce was selling for 89 cents.
I discovered that the criminal illegal aliens were making about $5 per hour picking that lettuce. The key factor was that government numbers showed that the labor costs of that head of lettuce was approximately 7% of the total cost.
I don't remember all the numbers, but I do remember that doubling the wages to $10 per hour would increase the cost of the head of lettuce to a whopping 97 cents! Not the $10 per head being claimed by the pro-illegal alien lobby at the time!
So, "Concerned with Myths", get your facts together, and stop with the hysterical hype you are trying to peddle! We have heard the threats and sob stories, we no longer are interested.
I discovered that the criminal illegal aliens were making about $5 per hour picking that lettuce. The key factor was that government numbers showed that the labor costs of that head of lettuce was approximately 7% of the total cost.
I don't remember all the numbers, but I do remember that doubling the wages to $10 per hour would increase the cost of the head of lettuce to a whopping 97 cents! Not the $10 per head being claimed by the pro-illegal alien lobby at the time!
So, "Concerned with Myths", get your facts together, and stop with the hysterical hype you are trying to peddle! We have heard the threats and sob stories, we no longer are interested.
church and state | 10:26 p.m. Feb. 20, 2008
are suppose to be seperate...they don't even bother to hide that anymore.
Tax the heck out of the people who hire the illegals put the money into
education so my child won't be left behind. I want my kids to be put to the
front of the bus! How can people call themselves honest on human slave labor
with more on the way! Get rid of the rift raft and start over! Soon Utah will be
called Mexica gone wild!
KansasGirl | 1:15 p.m. March 7, 2008
The Democrat party has basically chosen "illegal aliens" over the
"legal citizens" of this country! I will "not" be silenced!
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