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Jehovah's Witnesses are fastest-growing U.S. faith; LDS are fourth-largest U.S. faith
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Tex Cougarguard | 11:56 a.m. Feb. 17, 2008
The real truth is found by looking at activity rates. According to their own
statistical data, the LDS Church in North America counts only 51.3% of their
members as active ("active" is defined as 40% attendance). In
addition, approximately 114,000 Mormons worldwide formally "resigned"
from the Church in 2006 alone. Growth in total members is a misleading
statistic.
Anonymous | 11:56 a.m. Feb. 17, 2008
I detect some envy on here for JW's LOL!
Comments continue below
Daniel | 12:25 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
Higher education should be promoted now.
Anyone who has been a JW for decades like myself knows that college education was a defiant act which surely would get you sanctioned by the congregation.
The Watchtower religion is in dire straits for cheating millions of followers out of higher education with the "deliverance is at hand" slogan (still the 2006 district convention theme)
Although they have recently changed their policy so that at least a technical education is now seen as appropriate, the vast majority of Witnesses still have a high school education or less, and any change in their education level will take years before it has any effect on the Society
Anyone who has been a JW for decades like myself knows that college education was a defiant act which surely would get you sanctioned by the congregation.
The Watchtower religion is in dire straits for cheating millions of followers out of higher education with the "deliverance is at hand" slogan (still the 2006 district convention theme)
Although they have recently changed their policy so that at least a technical education is now seen as appropriate, the vast majority of Witnesses still have a high school education or less, and any change in their education level will take years before it has any effect on the Society
Indy Coug Cougarguard | 12:55 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
Daniel's insightful comments above also apply to the LDS faith.
Approximately 93% of the 2006 LDS adult converts had only high school
eductations or less. A small minority of Mormons do gain instruction in
theology and piety at BYU. Hardly counts as a higher education in the accepted
academic sense. The bottom line is that as education and secular knowledge
prevail, fewer people are attracted to all religions which are based largely on
superstition.
Hey Indy, | 1:25 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
According to National Opinion Research Center's Cumulative General Social
Survey, "Eighteen percent of LDS women and 22 percent of LDS men in the
survey have graduated from college. This is significantly higher than the
comparable percentages among Protestants and Catholics, but lower than among
Jews and those with no religious affiliation..."
Both the Marriot School of Business (41) and the J. Rueben Clark law school (44) at BYU are ranked in the top 50 of US News and World Report's best graduate schools in the country. In any logical person's mind, that counts as higher education.
Both the Marriot School of Business (41) and the J. Rueben Clark law school (44) at BYU are ranked in the top 50 of US News and World Report's best graduate schools in the country. In any logical person's mind, that counts as higher education.
Confused | 1:47 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
I'm not even sure why how fast a church is growing should be something that
we all fight over.
I mean, if Jehovah Witness's or Mormons go out to do missionary work thinking "Gotta have more members than such-and-such church" and not really caring about the people they're talking to, what kind of church is that? I think that if missionaries, of any church, go out with a goal to really touch a person's life, whatever church it is will be stronger than a church where the members look at investigator's as another number to use to impress others.
Sure, its cool if your church is growing fast, but its not something to get mad about.
I mean, if Jehovah Witness's or Mormons go out to do missionary work thinking "Gotta have more members than such-and-such church" and not really caring about the people they're talking to, what kind of church is that? I think that if missionaries, of any church, go out with a goal to really touch a person's life, whatever church it is will be stronger than a church where the members look at investigator's as another number to use to impress others.
Sure, its cool if your church is growing fast, but its not something to get mad about.
To Trouble and Wait: | 2:47 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
we're not hiding anything.
and we're not "cooking up numbers".
and we're not "cooking up numbers".
hackbart | 2:55 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
So what's the point y'all...how or why should the numbers, good or
bad, affect my beliefs? If you believe, I suspect you do so for a good reason
and if you don't I hope the same is true for you. Let's talk about
something else now...it is getting a bit worn out.
Well look at that! | 3:08 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
LDS members can't take the competition!
Super Floyd | 3:02 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
Hmmm� I thought the mormons and
jehova�s witnesses were the same. Go figure I learned
something new. Nevertheless both seem like very small religions by the numbers
and I don�t know what there would be to argue about here
with so little a stake. The Baptist numbers seem a little low to me but o well,
I am not going to argue with this group about that.
To Jennie | 3:52 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
YOU STATED : "The Jehovahs, Witnesses" seem to come to my house two
once a couple times a year. I think their kind of freaky and make me a bit
uncomfortable. I just wish they we would leave me alone, .......they are kind of
scary in their believes and would not think they would be taking LDS members
away, at least all my neighbors are still LDS and have asked these people not to
come back to our street....".
This is all easy to explain.
First, neither you nor your neighbors are comfortable enough in your beliefs that all of you are so threatened by somebody else's wanting to share with you their beliefs.
All this reaction of you and your neighbors are exactly the same when the Mormon missionaries come to other parts of the country, or the world.
To reject them because of their "weirdness and freaky" is because you haven't really lived your religion as Christ taught. So, if it hasn't helped all these years with you and your clan, then it's a hopeless case, and your Mormon religion proves to be a waste of time and very ineffective in changing hearts of love and compassion.
This is all easy to explain.
First, neither you nor your neighbors are comfortable enough in your beliefs that all of you are so threatened by somebody else's wanting to share with you their beliefs.
All this reaction of you and your neighbors are exactly the same when the Mormon missionaries come to other parts of the country, or the world.
To reject them because of their "weirdness and freaky" is because you haven't really lived your religion as Christ taught. So, if it hasn't helped all these years with you and your clan, then it's a hopeless case, and your Mormon religion proves to be a waste of time and very ineffective in changing hearts of love and compassion.
To Emmy | 4:06 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
YOU STATED: "The J-Dubs missies should stop treking through my neighborhood
a couple times a year and I might start respecting them, They can be intrusive
and should recognize we are an LDS neighborhood and not need to be bothered. It
is amazing they would put out this effort for so little return, They must be
desperate".
They're no more or no less desperate then the 60 thousand missionaries the LDS church sends out to the world.
Actually, if you look at it with a Christ like attitude, you'll see that their faith is so strong in Christ, they actually would go out and do something about it. They want to share their beliefs with lost souls who don't come to terms to live even their own religion, such as the Mormons.
If you respect them, then you'll be living your religion, and since you don't, then it really reveals just how Mormons really think of their fellow brothers and sisters on this earth, which is not that highly.
If this is the results of living the Mormon way of life, then, no, thank you!
I am scared to be a Mormon, due to such attitudes to also become mine.
They're no more or no less desperate then the 60 thousand missionaries the LDS church sends out to the world.
Actually, if you look at it with a Christ like attitude, you'll see that their faith is so strong in Christ, they actually would go out and do something about it. They want to share their beliefs with lost souls who don't come to terms to live even their own religion, such as the Mormons.
If you respect them, then you'll be living your religion, and since you don't, then it really reveals just how Mormons really think of their fellow brothers and sisters on this earth, which is not that highly.
If this is the results of living the Mormon way of life, then, no, thank you!
I am scared to be a Mormon, due to such attitudes to also become mine.
FenrirWolf | 5:38 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
To HAHA! If you're genuinely a J.W. then your words are NOT part of J.W.
beliefs. Now stop being rude.
For the record, J.W.'s figures are based not on enrolement or even meeting attendance but on who's actually engaged in the ministry for that year (which is why its called a service report). Healthy people have to do a minimum of an hour in the month to be counted, unhealthy are allowed to enter reports of 15 minutes. Either way it gives a total of nearly 1 and a half billion hours in ministry last year. (Surveys have had more people claiming to be J.W.'s that we say they are, unless they're in the ministry WE don't count them). Numbers wise, we're a small minority religion and we know it. Beliefs wise though :)
Regarding Cartage: If I wasn't a J.W. and a mob charged me but I had a gun there would be a lot more than 1 wounded (in a mob bullets pass through people to hit the next one remember)
For the record, J.W.'s figures are based not on enrolement or even meeting attendance but on who's actually engaged in the ministry for that year (which is why its called a service report). Healthy people have to do a minimum of an hour in the month to be counted, unhealthy are allowed to enter reports of 15 minutes. Either way it gives a total of nearly 1 and a half billion hours in ministry last year. (Surveys have had more people claiming to be J.W.'s that we say they are, unless they're in the ministry WE don't count them). Numbers wise, we're a small minority religion and we know it. Beliefs wise though :)
Regarding Cartage: If I wasn't a J.W. and a mob charged me but I had a gun there would be a lot more than 1 wounded (in a mob bullets pass through people to hit the next one remember)
shadow | 6:05 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
I know for a fact that the Presbyterian Church USA culls their roles. You see,
the local church pays annually per member on the roll, and if the member has
left town, etc., the church has to continue to carry them (pay), or drop them.
They get dropped.
The shadow knows.
The shadow knows.
russ | 6:08 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
We had a family of JWs in my little Utah town; the father ran a gas station/car
repair shop. His name was Mr. Taylor. We took all of our business to him
because he was so dag gone honest! When he gave you the bill, it was the bill.
Nothing added. Nothing subtracted. Pay up please. We made sure to pay in full
when we picked up the car. Always.
Such a wonderful guy to work with. We told hundreds of people where to take their cars for repairs. And he would go to junk dealers for parts and tell you that he got the part at a junk dealer.
So straight. So wonderfully honest.
I miss him.
Such a wonderful guy to work with. We told hundreds of people where to take their cars for repairs. And he would go to junk dealers for parts and tell you that he got the part at a junk dealer.
So straight. So wonderfully honest.
I miss him.
Extrafeetmom | 7:55 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
What would be an acurate census? I am not sure this is true. It wouldn't
bother me if it was.....Most of the growth from the LDS church isn't in
America anyway.
I just wish people would be nice, get along and act Christlike...when posting in here.
I just wish people would be nice, get along and act Christlike...when posting in here.
to columbia: | 9:08 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
I agree.
Michael - New zealand | 10:08 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
Early to bed and early to rise with prayer makes you health and wealthy and
wise! As my grandfather said pray and get to bed!
elder ilagan | 10:09 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
i don't think that was a fact. the fasting growing church is the true
church of jesus christ of latter-day saints. thats a fact!
Forrest | 11:21 p.m. Feb. 17, 2008
Go Elder Haynes! Thank you.
And the Lord said, Come fourth!! | 12:10 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Why the attacks on the JW Church just because an article states that they are
the fastest growing Church?? Are some of you feeling bad because your Church
didnt get the the number one 'gong'??? I love it that some LDS members
say, that the small size of the Church doesnt make it less true. While still
others point to it as being the fastest growing in the world........... so THAT
makes it true. But what to say when its number 4??? "Hey I belong to the
true Church............ how do I know??? Because the Lord
s�id "Come Fourth", thats how.
Rich | 4:41 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Elder Haynes,
According to your numbers, the church has donated 900 million in 21 years. That averages about 43 million per year. At today's claimed membership of 13 million, each member has contributed $3.30 per year. Big deal!!!!!!!! I leave more pennies than that in the little trays at convenience store counters each year.
According to your numbers, the church has donated 900 million in 21 years. That averages about 43 million per year. At today's claimed membership of 13 million, each member has contributed $3.30 per year. Big deal!!!!!!!! I leave more pennies than that in the little trays at convenience store counters each year.
fred | 5:36 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
In the end (judgment) ,the fact that matters is this.
Did you do the fathers will? (Jhn 17:3 Mat 7:21)
Being no part of the world,showing love,preaching the good news of the Kingdom,are a few.
Mat 24:48
Did you do the fathers will? (Jhn 17:3 Mat 7:21)
Being no part of the world,showing love,preaching the good news of the Kingdom,are a few.
Mat 24:48
Humphrey | 6:10 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Because there's no uniformity in how various denominations count their
members/adherents, the only accurate measure of growth is new ecclesiastical
units, as in new congregations or wards.
A few years ago the Mormon church reported the usual 250,000 or so baptized converts. The result should have been over 550 new wards. But the net growth worldwide that same year was fewer than 25 wards. That would indicate net growth of about 10,000 active Mormons.
Some mainline Protestant denominations, like Presbyterians, levy a "head-tax" for every member on a congregation's active roll. The result is an incentive to remove inactive people from the rolls (and relatively accurate membership data).
A few years ago the Mormon church reported the usual 250,000 or so baptized converts. The result should have been over 550 new wards. But the net growth worldwide that same year was fewer than 25 wards. That would indicate net growth of about 10,000 active Mormons.
Some mainline Protestant denominations, like Presbyterians, levy a "head-tax" for every member on a congregation's active roll. The result is an incentive to remove inactive people from the rolls (and relatively accurate membership data).
Diane Gholson | 6:25 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
It would be wise to look behind the Watchtower curtain at their history before
you join. Once you join it is too late, you will lose family and former
friends, may go to prison in lieu of the draft, may die for lack of a blood
transfusion, trudge door to door earning your salvation (no grace) and use their
translation of the Bible doctored up to fit their doctrine. These comments are
only the tip of the iceberg.
convert | 6:32 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
I was baptized a Jehovah's Witness more then 30 years ago as a teenager.
Later, I converted to the LDS church and I am so thankful for that. My
grandmother and uncle were both active Jehovah's Witnesses and were good,
hardworking, loving people. I love being LDS, living in America, and just trying
to be a good wife, mom, friend, and neighbor. I say just accept each other for
who we are and live the best positive life we can. For in the end, all that
matters is how we treated our family and neighbor. "As I have loved you,
love one another."
Elder Haynes, Sr. Missionary | 7:59 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Rich, come on brother, lighten up. Many are widows, many are children, many
others live in areas of the world where they do not have much wealth. And, I
put the penny's in the store trays too, so I am still $3.30 ahead of you.
How much per capita has your favorite organization given for humanitarian
relief?
This discussion about numbers has missed an important point. Our church sees every member as one of His sheep and therefore has a stewardship over every one, as does He. So no bragging, no chest pounding over the number, just a humble thankfulness that each person is cared for. Now, I admit that we have room for improvement as individuals, but the church organization is perfect.
This discussion about numbers has missed an important point. Our church sees every member as one of His sheep and therefore has a stewardship over every one, as does He. So no bragging, no chest pounding over the number, just a humble thankfulness that each person is cared for. Now, I admit that we have room for improvement as individuals, but the church organization is perfect.
Elder Haynes... | 8:50 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Elder Haynes, it appears that the charitable contributions over a span of 21
years totaled about $1 billion, or about $50 million per year. The LDS church
receives about 4-11 billion per year in (mostly) tithing. The percentage
donation to charity is very small indeed. Too many commercial projects (the
mall in SLC) and too little real charity.
LSV | 8:58 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
I agree with the one comment that stats are not as important as faith, although
they are a way to measure growth. As a Latter-day Saint, I never shun anyone of
any faith and I am grateful that others have the right to believe as they do. I
don't like anti-Mormon rhetoric, and there has been a lot of it during this
election, and as members of the L.D.S. Church, we should spend our time reaching
out to others and getting our own lives in order rather than being critical of
others' faith--leave the negativity to others.
Church activity and number | 9:14 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Whether Mormons count their inactive members or not is beyond the point here.
They're just saying that there is great growth, just as in the Catholic
church. Do you really think the number that the Catholic church has counts only
the people who go to church every Sunday? I would venture and say that about 1%
of Catholics actually go to church, yet everyone is counted. Same as in any
religion. All religions want their number to be high, regardless of activity.
JW Stats are TRUE | 9:18 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
I'm pleased with FenrirWolf. This should have been stated earlier. JWs
publish stats as honestly as possible.
While many churches such as LDS, Catholics, inflate their stats. We only count those who go from door-to-door. If i don't go from door to door within a month, I'm not counted, even if I'm present at all meetings. If I'm in the hospital and I'm bedridden and I dont have a means to preach, I'm not counted. Census reports always count MORE JWs than JWs publish.
What we publish is average ministers and peak ministers. Average is the overall average# of ministers w/ a year. Peak is the highest amount with a month of the year. So if there are 6.7million on average and a peak of 7million then that means that every month about 6.7M go door-to-door while in one month a total high of 7M did so out of all the months of the year.
Things to consider, children who are not baptized are not counted. Faithful sick people who are "current" but don't preach are not counted. Disfellowshiped are not counted. Inactive are not counted.
If we substracted BAPTIZED From DISFELLOWSHIPPED our number might be 10Million or more.
While many churches such as LDS, Catholics, inflate their stats. We only count those who go from door-to-door. If i don't go from door to door within a month, I'm not counted, even if I'm present at all meetings. If I'm in the hospital and I'm bedridden and I dont have a means to preach, I'm not counted. Census reports always count MORE JWs than JWs publish.
What we publish is average ministers and peak ministers. Average is the overall average# of ministers w/ a year. Peak is the highest amount with a month of the year. So if there are 6.7million on average and a peak of 7million then that means that every month about 6.7M go door-to-door while in one month a total high of 7M did so out of all the months of the year.
Things to consider, children who are not baptized are not counted. Faithful sick people who are "current" but don't preach are not counted. Disfellowshiped are not counted. Inactive are not counted.
If we substracted BAPTIZED From DISFELLOWSHIPPED our number might be 10Million or more.
JW Stats are TRUE | 9:54 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
I like Mormons. They are appealing. JWs have a lot in common with them. I call
them the other "white meant" or the "other True religion."
It is just a joke. I believe that JWs are the ONLY true one, but it puts people
at ease to know they are respected.
I'm ashamed at LDS stats, however, it is obvious that it is fanfare. They are trying to look bigger than they are and they know that in the long run it will drive up their membership. If they reach 30M and someone questions them and they end up only being 20M then that isn't such a big thing. But if they are currently 13M but actually are 9M then that looks a lot worse.
Unfortunately STATs do make people feel safe and a lot of effort is being placed in making LDS mainstream. Jesus said his true disciples would be hated by all nations. They will not be mainstream. Numbers are not a good testament to a True religion. However, a true religion must be large enough and broad enough to educate teh masses about True Worship.
It is up to us to FIND the TRUE RELIGION!
I'm ashamed at LDS stats, however, it is obvious that it is fanfare. They are trying to look bigger than they are and they know that in the long run it will drive up their membership. If they reach 30M and someone questions them and they end up only being 20M then that isn't such a big thing. But if they are currently 13M but actually are 9M then that looks a lot worse.
Unfortunately STATs do make people feel safe and a lot of effort is being placed in making LDS mainstream. Jesus said his true disciples would be hated by all nations. They will not be mainstream. Numbers are not a good testament to a True religion. However, a true religion must be large enough and broad enough to educate teh masses about True Worship.
It is up to us to FIND the TRUE RELIGION!
A Texan | 10:11 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
I have respect for anyone who follows their religion.
When Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door I politely listen to the scripture they wish to share (after all, I believe in the bible too). I think it is admirable that they not only believe but wish to share. Isn't that what those of us who are LDS feel about ourselves? Or should?
Numbers are important for certain purposes, but for each of us individuals the only number that counts is ourselves. "What am I doing?" That's all.
I have to laugh at a lot of these comments and how quickly people get agitated. This is an anonomous forum. You will get people pretending to be LDS and say stupid things and you will get people pretending to be of other religions (or none) and says stupid things. All of it is an attempt to "prove" a point. You will even get people who are who they claim to say stupid things. There is not "anti-stupid" test given to join a church or a forum.
Just sayin'....
When Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door I politely listen to the scripture they wish to share (after all, I believe in the bible too). I think it is admirable that they not only believe but wish to share. Isn't that what those of us who are LDS feel about ourselves? Or should?
Numbers are important for certain purposes, but for each of us individuals the only number that counts is ourselves. "What am I doing?" That's all.
I have to laugh at a lot of these comments and how quickly people get agitated. This is an anonomous forum. You will get people pretending to be LDS and say stupid things and you will get people pretending to be of other religions (or none) and says stupid things. All of it is an attempt to "prove" a point. You will even get people who are who they claim to say stupid things. There is not "anti-stupid" test given to join a church or a forum.
Just sayin'....
ROBERT | 10:16 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
To "elder ilagen" weither you want to believe it or not, the LDS
church is not the fastest growing church in the nation. But it does have an 8%
exodus rate and is not the only church that claims a apostasy and
restoration.
Charles Taze Russell claimed in 1852 that Christianity fell into general apostasy in the 4th century and that God appointed him to restore His true church, which is called Jehovah's Witnesses.
Joseph Smith made these same claims earlier in 1830.
Jesus made this statement in Matthew 18:16 that upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
Jesus' last words in Matthew are, and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
So who are you going to believe, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell or Jesus"
Jesus said you can't have two masters!
Charles Taze Russell claimed in 1852 that Christianity fell into general apostasy in the 4th century and that God appointed him to restore His true church, which is called Jehovah's Witnesses.
Joseph Smith made these same claims earlier in 1830.
Jesus made this statement in Matthew 18:16 that upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
Jesus' last words in Matthew are, and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
So who are you going to believe, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell or Jesus"
Jesus said you can't have two masters!
Deutsche | 10:37 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
The Mormon church can kiss Europe goodbye.
There are approx. thirty-four thousand members on th books in France and in Germany respectively.
The activity rate is 15% tops, with a high turnover rate and a slow birthrate in both countries.
On the books means names are kept for 110 years but the people are mostly inactive.
The few converts the church gets each year are mostly immigrants to those countries, rarely real Germans or real Frenchmen.
WHY?
It is next to impossible to superimpose Mormonism on European culture, few people are willing to give up their wine or shave off their beards for a religion that originated in the backwoods of America in the 1800s.
Nations who provide cradle-to-grave social safety rarely feel a need for religious fantasies.Thank God, LOL.
There are approx. thirty-four thousand members on th books in France and in Germany respectively.
The activity rate is 15% tops, with a high turnover rate and a slow birthrate in both countries.
On the books means names are kept for 110 years but the people are mostly inactive.
The few converts the church gets each year are mostly immigrants to those countries, rarely real Germans or real Frenchmen.
WHY?
It is next to impossible to superimpose Mormonism on European culture, few people are willing to give up their wine or shave off their beards for a religion that originated in the backwoods of America in the 1800s.
Nations who provide cradle-to-grave social safety rarely feel a need for religious fantasies.Thank God, LOL.
Sub-Odeon | 10:45 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Size and increase numbers are pointless.
Those of us who are LDS and are satisfied with our choice to join (or remain) in the church, shouldn't give a dang about how big we are or how much we're growing.
This is not a popularity contest, nor is it a race to a finish line. It's a church. And the point is not quantity, but quality. Better we have fewer members and fewer who join, with more activity, than scads of members who seldom show up or do anything related to church; like the Catholics.
Just my opinion. I am sticking to it. If JW really are in first place in terms of new membership, good for them. I hope the people who find Christ through that route find hope and help in the same way we LDS find hope and help in our church.
Those of us who are LDS and are satisfied with our choice to join (or remain) in the church, shouldn't give a dang about how big we are or how much we're growing.
This is not a popularity contest, nor is it a race to a finish line. It's a church. And the point is not quantity, but quality. Better we have fewer members and fewer who join, with more activity, than scads of members who seldom show up or do anything related to church; like the Catholics.
Just my opinion. I am sticking to it. If JW really are in first place in terms of new membership, good for them. I hope the people who find Christ through that route find hope and help in the same way we LDS find hope and help in our church.
John Lambert, Detroit | 10:42 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
I am not troubled by these stats. Yes, it would be good if the church were
baptizing more people and if we were retaining more people. However we need to
focus on what we can control.
My ward has had two baptisms in the last month(we are a singles ward, so they are both converts) and both of them were at church yesterday. One was there despite the fact that her friend who introduced her to the church was out of town. We can spread the gospel more, and share the gospel more, and be better friends, but we have to focus on what we really can do.
I love statistics, but I understand why they do not report as many. If you want to follow statistics that reflect true growth in the level of active members follow those on the number of stakes. I think the main reason the leaders cut down on the statistics, is that they realized it is more inportant to inpart the word of God, than numbers and we need to value people and not just statistics.
My ward has had two baptisms in the last month(we are a singles ward, so they are both converts) and both of them were at church yesterday. One was there despite the fact that her friend who introduced her to the church was out of town. We can spread the gospel more, and share the gospel more, and be better friends, but we have to focus on what we really can do.
I love statistics, but I understand why they do not report as many. If you want to follow statistics that reflect true growth in the level of active members follow those on the number of stakes. I think the main reason the leaders cut down on the statistics, is that they realized it is more inportant to inpart the word of God, than numbers and we need to value people and not just statistics.
LDS & JWs | 10:58 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
I don't know why LDS hate JWs at their door. I think that is ABSOLUTELY
STUPID. If aMormon knocked at my door, I would invite him in, offerhim a cool
drink, listen to him, and challenge his beliefs.
LDS in turn should be thankful toJWs if only for the fact that they have the right to go from D2D ONLY becauseJWs have won that right for them throughout Europe and the Americas. We have expanded what it means to be in a "free society." Bcause of that we don't typically have to fight for similar rights in places like Africa. From what i understand, LDS don't typically challenge teh law. So they would have likely found other means to preach.
JWs have knocked at my door many times. I have NEVER had a MORMON KNOCK! I only know about Mormons from TV commercials. That may be a good thing. We�ll go anywhere! For that reason, we�re the most RACIALLY DIVERSE RELIGION IN THE UNITED STATES!
Mormons should be thankful also because where a country will allow JWs, with only a few exceptions, they will typically tolerate Mormons as well. I don't think the same can be said in reverse.
LDS in turn should be thankful toJWs if only for the fact that they have the right to go from D2D ONLY becauseJWs have won that right for them throughout Europe and the Americas. We have expanded what it means to be in a "free society." Bcause of that we don't typically have to fight for similar rights in places like Africa. From what i understand, LDS don't typically challenge teh law. So they would have likely found other means to preach.
JWs have knocked at my door many times. I have NEVER had a MORMON KNOCK! I only know about Mormons from TV commercials. That may be a good thing. We�ll go anywhere! For that reason, we�re the most RACIALLY DIVERSE RELIGION IN THE UNITED STATES!
Mormons should be thankful also because where a country will allow JWs, with only a few exceptions, they will typically tolerate Mormons as well. I don't think the same can be said in reverse.
Years and Members | 11:18 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Mormons have been around 170 years. JWs have been around 125 years. If you look
at total membership over that time period, JWs have grown much faster than LDS.
Mormons are 13M in 170 years
(possibly largely exaggerated)
JWs are 7M in 125 years.
Clearly within another 50 years, at the same rate JWs will be more than 13M.
Mormons may be larger but JWs have clearly been growing faster. And ours is not birth rates.
Mormons are 13M in 170 years
(possibly largely exaggerated)
JWs are 7M in 125 years.
Clearly within another 50 years, at the same rate JWs will be more than 13M.
Mormons may be larger but JWs have clearly been growing faster. And ours is not birth rates.
zaccur | 11:42 a.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Interesting that people are against Jehovah's Witnesses coming to thier
door. Didn't Jesus send out the twelve and the seventy to do just that?
Read Acts-didn't the disciples and Paul do just that? Makes you wonder if
they would turn away these if they came to thier door!!!
Me | 12:04 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008
The reason JW are growing is that they are great impersonators. A couple of
them showed up at my friends home dressed as Mormon missionaries (minus the name
tags). They harrased and pushed. It not only gave the JW a bad name but the
mormons. Oh yeah, JW are as pushy as a used car salesman. And who can resist a
child preaching at your door. I have seen the parents sit in the van while the
kids knock on the doors.
Me, you're funny | 12:22 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008
JW impersonate Mormons at the door! LOL!
JJ | 12:20 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Jennie: I live in a "non-LDS neighborhood" (defined as no one on the
entire street being LDS) and we have LDS missionaries knocking on our doors 3-4
times a year. No one is interested in joining, but most people are polite and
offer them water or snacks. Most here seem to realize they are on missions due
to family/cultural expectations, because all their friends are doing it, or to
enhance their marital prospects after the mission (imagine being a non-RM at
BYU....). So the neighbors go pretty easy on them.
Imagine if we put up a sign "this is a non-LDS neighborhood, leave us alone." You may not like the JW missionaries (neither do I), but until you are willing to pull LDS missionaries out of neighborhoods like mine, it's a two way street.
Beth from Orem: who appointed you as the board Taliban? Are LDS members from outside Utah not supposed to post? Are people from outside Utah not supposed to read Deseret News online? This is not about local Utah politics.
Imagine if we put up a sign "this is a non-LDS neighborhood, leave us alone." You may not like the JW missionaries (neither do I), but until you are willing to pull LDS missionaries out of neighborhoods like mine, it's a two way street.
Beth from Orem: who appointed you as the board Taliban? Are LDS members from outside Utah not supposed to post? Are people from outside Utah not supposed to read Deseret News online? This is not about local Utah politics.
To Me | 12:26 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008
I think I can disagree with that. About six months ago the Jehovah
Witness's built a church building the street up from me, next door to one
of my best friends. When they were building, they were nothing but polite and
courteous to the family. They did invite us to come to a meeting and shared a
few scriptures, but were completely understanding when their family explained
that we were all active Mormons.
Later, I learned that a girl from my English class was a member of that church. There is no sweeter or cuter girl that I can think of on this planet. I have never heard her gossip about anyone, swear, or say anything rude on purpose to anyone. And I can't say that about most of my Mormon friends either.
Later, I learned that a girl from my English class was a member of that church. There is no sweeter or cuter girl that I can think of on this planet. I have never heard her gossip about anyone, swear, or say anything rude on purpose to anyone. And I can't say that about most of my Mormon friends either.
Cleetorn | 12:30 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008
I LOVE these comment forums! Without exception, they are infinitely more
evocative, informative and titillating than whatever the original article was
about. The incessant parade of "true believers" and
"pretenders" are endlessly fascinating. In any case, I will continue
to do as my parents taught me - to be tolerant of all others regarless of their
convictions whether I want to be a part of them or not. I will not only allow
but encourage my kids to play with whoever they want (as long as thy're not
engaging in some criminal activity) as they can get a better perspective on the
world as a whole. I am secure in the beliefs that I hold, so send who you want
to my door. They are welcome as brothers and sisters regarless of who's
"bigger" or "better." Though the statisticians may disagree
on methodology, growth is a very personal thing and people need to turn within
themselves for refinement and refrain from all this destructive finger-pointing
and name-calling. In the "end," we will all answer to the same Power
regardless of our affiliations be they religious, social or personal.
"Can't we all just get along?"
Mike | 12:42 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Jehovas Witnesses are always welcome in my house. I have had many discussions
with them, and I respect their dedication.
Live and let live | 1:02 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Live and let live
jws strike again | 1:07 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008
Jws got some good mileage out of the same artical in the USA Today (2/18/08) It
would be nice to see what the trends have been for the last 20 years including
financial information.
Saren | 1:07 p.m. Feb. 18, 2008
I am LDS, Proud of my religion and try to be Christlike to everyone of other
faiths. I certainly have friends of many different races and faiths.I am blessed
by knowing each one of them and by their examples...I have always been taught in
our faith that we should practice the golden rule and treat others
kindly,(regardless of their religion). I am grateful our church comes to the aid
of millions every year across the world with humanitarian aid. This is what true
happiness is. Helping others . Our world is falling apart..lets start at home
and support everyone who is even trying to live the way God would like them to.
Isn't life much easier with more kindess?
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And I ask you what is so different about that in Mormonism or any other church? the LDS count anyone that was ever baptised as a member whether they ever go again or not, CORRECT OR NOT?