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Measure targets undocumented
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Gus | 12:57 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Regardless of what some liberals may say, these types of measures are the
"humane" way of dealing with this issue because instead of rounding up
illegals in the middle of the night and shipping them off, we are creating a
state with less incentives for them to make their homes here. Making our state
less accommodating to them, less attractive, and less "cushy" is the
answer to illegal immigration. Oh yeah, and building a wall.
dave 4197 | 3:53 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
STOP THIS BILL!
What's needed is change to the anti immigrant attitude, practice, and law. We should be more tolerant, welcoming, and helpful to our neighbors, especially from this continent. We don't need laws like this one that are just piling on!
C'MON SENATORS, TAKE A STEP FORWARD AND LEAD THE FEDS. We can afford to tolerate and even help the poor among us. This bill is the absolute wrong direction.
What's needed is change to the anti immigrant attitude, practice, and law. We should be more tolerant, welcoming, and helpful to our neighbors, especially from this continent. We don't need laws like this one that are just piling on!
C'MON SENATORS, TAKE A STEP FORWARD AND LEAD THE FEDS. We can afford to tolerate and even help the poor among us. This bill is the absolute wrong direction.
Anonymous | 4:28 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Just make the schools require a social security card for each kid that is
enrolling at the school and the problem goes away. Yes they can use fake ones
so make them show an AMERICAN birth certificate or immigration papers and a SS
card. The system is already in place and schools are where we are getting hit
hardest by illegal immigration.
Comments continue below
dave4197 | 5:07 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
This bill is an example of wrong minded mis directed intolerant head in the sand
turf protecting selfish law that we need less of. Not more of.
Please, senators, tell the feds to change their immigration laws to be more tolerant, welcoming, and helpful towards our neighbors. Mexicans are our friends, we don't need to fence them out, with physical fences, nor with legal fences.
Please, senators, tell the feds to change their immigration laws to be more tolerant, welcoming, and helpful towards our neighbors. Mexicans are our friends, we don't need to fence them out, with physical fences, nor with legal fences.
dave4197 | 5:15 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
This is a junk law that deserves to go in the round file / trash. Senator, do
something useful instead of dissing our friends and neighbors from mexico.
Bob G | 5:50 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Utah and the rest of the US has been waiting 20 years or more for federal action
and the time to wait is done. Immediate action is required with no delayed
timetable or further studies required. All the studies are in and all the
processes have been done so do not dealy the actions needed. The american people
support and endorse the actions of this law and bill and its about time we do
something to stop these illegals from victimizing the american people. If
illegals have any complaints they should be referred to their embassy and given
no more recognition at any public meeting or government debates. This includes
any writs or objections to the laws of this country they do not belong to that
are here by illegal force and means. These illegals have done harm and made
threats to this country at our national borders and even killed the americans
guarding our borders. The illegals are not welcome in Utah or the US, contact
your nearest ICE office for further assistance to return you and your families
back to Mexico. Illegaly obtained money and possesions during your illegal
occupation are also forfieted and to be confiscated.
Seth Sandvoss | 6:56 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
One of the two greatest commandments: Love one another as I have loved you.
Marvin | 7:08 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Good for Oklahoma...They got rid of illegals. So they had a sales tax revenue
below what was projected. How much did they save educating, treating illegals in
hospitals & welfare costs? They came out way ahead. GO UTAH.
Kevin in Texas | 7:09 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Another measure aimed at destroying families of good people at their attempt at
having a better life. Conditions are so bad in Mexico that people are desparate
to get in a better place. They have very poor drinking water, poor incomes and
no way to feed or house their families. Yet everyone here excpects them to wait
7-10 years to come legally. Honestly would any of you wait that long while your
families were starving?
Ronand R. | 7:18 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
This bill needs to be passed now. Anybody who opposes it has no sence of what
is really happening in the state of Utah reguarding illegal aliens. If an
elected legislator opposes because of obscure legal interpretation of language
he is showing his real motive to supress the will of the majority of people. I
see everyday the effects of illegal aliens in the workplace. They undercut the
wage rate by half, take the construction work and leave the legal worker without
a job. Deport all illegal aliens and imprision and fine illegal employers.
Enter namemymymy | 7:22 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
When we let money rule everything we do then we're in trouble. Illegal is
illegal and those here illegally need to leave. Period.
Determined | 7:44 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Model this bill after Oklahomas law, we have seen what their bill has done and
to wait on the federal government will result in a result just like everything
else federal nowdays it just won't happen. States need to take these
matters into their own hands or go broke waiting on the federal government for
anything now days, and probaly wouldn't like what the Feds do anyway. Lets
see some backbone and get things done PLEASE.
Conservative | 7:56 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
We have to treat these immigrants as humanely as possible. If they have
committed crimes in our country then we have no mercy on them and deport them
immediately. But for the majority we have to be compassionate! We have to have
a fair guest worker program. We have to make our Federal Gov't enforce the
border first!!! I am calling for compassion!
Jazz Fan | 8:04 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Undocumented!?
What is so hard about printing THE TRUTH ?
"Measure targets Illegals" Is this so hard?
Are you the Deseret Morning News, or The Orwellian Morning News?
YOUR CALL, or will you continue to treat your readers as stupid?
What is so hard about printing THE TRUTH ?
"Measure targets Illegals" Is this so hard?
Are you the Deseret Morning News, or The Orwellian Morning News?
YOUR CALL, or will you continue to treat your readers as stupid?
karl | 8:38 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
no more studying the problem. We need a solution now. Democrats step to the
side.
About time! | 8:49 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Its about time. The federal Governement wont do anything so its time for the
states to do something. Bush had 2 terms and did nithing about illegals.
jr | 9:16 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
It is time to start acting instead of talking. If the Catholic Churc feels
threatened then so they should. Why not have the Catholic Church and the
Mormon Church sponsor all the illegals that are members of their flock and that
to would be a beginning to lessening the tax payers burden. Why not have them
pay for the schooling as well. They want membership and money then time for
them to take care of their flock and teach them that obeying the laws of the
land is also a step in obeying the ways of their GOD
Dave | 9:48 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Congratulations on removing some of the incentives towards lawlessness. The next
step will be enforcement.
Shari | 9:46 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
It's very similar to how you deal with homeless... just make them really
uncomfortable and they'll become someone else's problem.
It doesn't SOLVE the problem, any more than "rounding them up and sending them home". It just shifts the problem to another state.
Build a wall around Utah, maybe?
It doesn't SOLVE the problem, any more than "rounding them up and sending them home". It just shifts the problem to another state.
Build a wall around Utah, maybe?
St George Resdient | 9:48 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
I agreed with dave4197
Anonymous | 9:53 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
boo hoo hoo, somebody call the WAHmbulance. They were here illegally,
let's enforce the law.
veedub | 9:59 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
dave4197,
Doing a little trolling there with three posts that no one responds to? It's pretty obvious that no one really cares what you're saying. They've heard it all before--from Federal, elected officials (who may be surprised when the next election day has passed).
Doing a little trolling there with three posts that no one responds to? It's pretty obvious that no one really cares what you're saying. They've heard it all before--from Federal, elected officials (who may be surprised when the next election day has passed).
uncannygunman | 10:17 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
This is a federal issue not a state issue. I know a lot of people don't
want to hear that because the feds aren't solving the problem fast enough.
But it's still a fed issue because the question of legal status itself is
defined by the national government, not states. Think about it--pass the
strictest state anti-immigrant law you want, and it all gets tossed out the
window tomorrow if the feds redefine who is here legally or illegally.
I don't think it is sound national policy to have individual states expressly attempting to cause mass migration within the country. The sooner the feds get a handle on this "race to the bottom" by the states, the better.
I don't think it is sound national policy to have individual states expressly attempting to cause mass migration within the country. The sooner the feds get a handle on this "race to the bottom" by the states, the better.
Stewart | 10:18 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
It is about time that the Utah Senate does something. This is their first vote
of record in opposition to illegal immigration, all others have helped enabled
illegal immigration such as in-state tuition and drivers licenses.
Folks like Dave 4197 completely ignore the principle of national sovereignty and see no difference between moving from Colorado to Utah than from moving from Mexico without a visa to Utah, and see this as a race problem. Also, Dave doesn't work at the bottom of the economic ladder where wages are being depressed, by over supply of cheap labor.
The taxpayers of Utah have the right to defend themselves, since the federal government won't, from the onslaught of cheap foreign labor, from the over six billion from countries poorer than Mexico. Amnesty is not the end, it is only the beginning of this problem.
The sooner we make the difficult decisions on this issue, the easier it will be. Delay only makes it worse. Most of the SB81 effect is delayed for a year and a half, giving everybody more than enough time to deal with it. Also, it is not nearly as strict as the Oklahoma bill.
Folks like Dave 4197 completely ignore the principle of national sovereignty and see no difference between moving from Colorado to Utah than from moving from Mexico without a visa to Utah, and see this as a race problem. Also, Dave doesn't work at the bottom of the economic ladder where wages are being depressed, by over supply of cheap labor.
The taxpayers of Utah have the right to defend themselves, since the federal government won't, from the onslaught of cheap foreign labor, from the over six billion from countries poorer than Mexico. Amnesty is not the end, it is only the beginning of this problem.
The sooner we make the difficult decisions on this issue, the easier it will be. Delay only makes it worse. Most of the SB81 effect is delayed for a year and a half, giving everybody more than enough time to deal with it. Also, it is not nearly as strict as the Oklahoma bill.
Bob | 10:28 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Pass the bill! Illegal immigrants are criminals. What else does
"illegal" mean? Let their countries of origin treat them humanely
& take care of them.
Dr Don | 10:31 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
FINALLY! A step in the right direction. It's about time we started to curb
these criminals!
Chris | 10:42 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Why should we be tolerant of people breaking the law? They are here illegally!
They aren't paying taxes! Why shoud they be allowed to study in schools
supported by taxes? It is about time we started fixing the problem. Hopefully
we'll see more and more roundups like this.
Hate those who are different | 10:53 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
I cannot believe the hate evident on all these proposals. Does anyone remember
Mormon history? This is so sad.
BBurke | 11:02 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Dial 1 for illegal.
No more sob stories, please. Go home and fix your own country and quit trying to mess up mine.
You are not a racist because you beleive in the law.
No more sob stories, please. Go home and fix your own country and quit trying to mess up mine.
You are not a racist because you beleive in the law.
Mormon History... | 11:02 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Mormon History has nothing to do with this... That is like saying, "Does
anyone remember what Hitler did?" Of course everyone remembers, but it is
not applicable to this. All you are doing is taking a piece of history that the
majority of the paople know about or can relate to and trying to create sympathy
for people who are breaking the law in a totally unrealated manner.
Lets no forget Mormons were here legally in a totally different era and the people at that time were not even dreaming of the problems we are facing today.
Lets no forget Mormons were here legally in a totally different era and the people at that time were not even dreaming of the problems we are facing today.
Alan of Orem | 11:08 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
It is perfectly reasonable for our legislature to pass laws making Utah a less
attractive place for illegal aliens to make a home. But what is ultimately
needed is for our national government to:
1) build the wall
2) use technology and counterfeit-resistant ID system to track people who come in on student, tourist, and other limited-time visas
3) create a way in which honest, hard-working people can immigrate without spending years in paperwork and/or thousand of dollars on legal help
4) institute a guest-worker program
5) aggressively deport criminals, welfare cheats and identity thieves
It's hard for me to build up a lot of rage against "criminals" whose only motive is family survival, when our do-nothing Federal Government continues to essentially lure people in with porous borders, lax identity control, and benefits galore.
Without these, Mexico and other countries south might actually have to make some real changes for their own people and stop using the USA economy as a relief valve.
1) build the wall
2) use technology and counterfeit-resistant ID system to track people who come in on student, tourist, and other limited-time visas
3) create a way in which honest, hard-working people can immigrate without spending years in paperwork and/or thousand of dollars on legal help
4) institute a guest-worker program
5) aggressively deport criminals, welfare cheats and identity thieves
It's hard for me to build up a lot of rage against "criminals" whose only motive is family survival, when our do-nothing Federal Government continues to essentially lure people in with porous borders, lax identity control, and benefits galore.
Without these, Mexico and other countries south might actually have to make some real changes for their own people and stop using the USA economy as a relief valve.
Misplaced Compassion | 11:08 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
To Conservative. If illegal aliens commit crimes they should indeed be
deported. Therefore, anyone using a fraudulent document (felony) or a social
security number (SSN) belonging to someone else (felony) or falsifying an I-9
form under penalty of perjury (felony) should be arrested, tried, convicted and
deported.
The only way any illegal alien can get a job with a "reputable" employer such as Ivory Homes or McDonald�s is to present a fraudulent SSN and falsify the I-9 thereby committing at least two felonies and possibly a third if the SSN belongs to someone else.
The Utah Attorney General�s Office reported that it had uncovered a crime spree involving illegal aliens using SSNs belonging to children under 12. Workforce Services reported that 1,626 companies were paying salaries to the SSNs of children under 12. 37 adults were using one child's SSN. An estimated 20,000 to 50,000 Utah children are victims of SSN only identity theft. 90% of identity theft cases tried by the AG�s Office involve illegal aliens.
Our compassion should be directed to the children and other Utahns who are the victims of these criminal illegal aliens not to those committing the crimes no matter how noble their motives.
The only way any illegal alien can get a job with a "reputable" employer such as Ivory Homes or McDonald�s is to present a fraudulent SSN and falsify the I-9 thereby committing at least two felonies and possibly a third if the SSN belongs to someone else.
The Utah Attorney General�s Office reported that it had uncovered a crime spree involving illegal aliens using SSNs belonging to children under 12. Workforce Services reported that 1,626 companies were paying salaries to the SSNs of children under 12. 37 adults were using one child's SSN. An estimated 20,000 to 50,000 Utah children are victims of SSN only identity theft. 90% of identity theft cases tried by the AG�s Office involve illegal aliens.
Our compassion should be directed to the children and other Utahns who are the victims of these criminal illegal aliens not to those committing the crimes no matter how noble their motives.
JN | 11:08 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Calling Illegal Aliens "Undocumented Workers" is like called drug
dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists." We have laws, cut the BS and just
enforce the law!
Phillip Hotchkiss | 11:38 a.m. Feb. 9, 2008
The majority of our ancestors immigrated from other countries. Reasons of the
immigrations are varied. Some were sent here from other countries because of
their beliefs. Most came to America because they were rejected by their own
country. Some who immigrated here were street scum who stole from others in
order to survive and thrive. Some were sent here because they were criminals and
their country gave up on them. I ask why the offspring of rejects have the right
to deny others to immigrate here? Most have a lot better background and morals
than our ancestors who were thrust into this land.
When denying someone the right to live here because of immigration rules, you are disregarding a greater law. The law of humanity. You are denying them the opportunity and fairness that your family had who immigrated here.
They are trying to better themselves. Why are you against this or wanting to put a halt to it
When denying someone the right to live here because of immigration rules, you are disregarding a greater law. The law of humanity. You are denying them the opportunity and fairness that your family had who immigrated here.
They are trying to better themselves. Why are you against this or wanting to put a halt to it
Anonymous | 12:07 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
I am 100% for SB81. Let's restore integrity to our state and our country.
Our government has been derelict for far too long in carrying out their duties
in this matter. It's time to reward honest employers for maintaining their
integrity and start punishing those employers who have been cheating all of us
in one way or another for a very long time. I would ask those legislators to be
wise enough and courageous enough to see that Utah is more than an Economy. It
is the home of largely decent people, Utah citizens, who deserve to live in an
environment free from greed and corruption.
If the legislature does not act at this time to take concrete steps to solve this critical issue, these 'lawmakers' become enablers of lawlessness.
Pass SB81!
If the legislature does not act at this time to take concrete steps to solve this critical issue, these 'lawmakers' become enablers of lawlessness.
Pass SB81!
Lil Devil | 12:22 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
I just read a article about a Grand mother that was arrested for not having
money to water her lawn it's against the LAW. That is what some people
don't understand, about the LAW if you break it you go to jail or take
responsibilty for our actions. These ILLEGALS have broken the law send them back
and stop the drain on we who pay taxs. They come here for the freebees, We stop
the hand out and they will go. If these poor down and out people need help let
their goverment help them out.
Christy | 12:36 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
I personally find this law confusing. Am I wrong or doesn't Utah allow
illegals to have driver's lisences as well as get tuition breaks for
college? I could be wrong but that was my understanding. I'm fine calling
illegals illegal. But it's easy to understand why there is confusion. We
know there are illegals here and my guess is the police know where many of them
live. I think we need to be consistent. If a person is here illegally then
don't give them tuition breaks or a driver's lisence. If I'm
incorrect, I'd appreciate being set straight. (in a kind way if
possible--I'm not trying to pick a fight)
Eddie | 12:43 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
I am all for this bill. We must do everything we can to remove the incentive of
jobs for these illegal aliens. If they cannot get work, they won't come
here. The problem will resolve itself.
ema | 1:02 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
This is just another uncompassionate law propossed by the ignorant republicans,
illlegals are here illegally because there is not a smart law that allows them
to get their situation straight.
So who is going to work construction, hospitality and agriculture...white rich kids?...I don't think so!
I'm in a management position and some of my guys are here illegally, and I wouldn't change them for anything. They do a great job and they have a great work ethic, and by the way I pay them as much as I will pay anyone else who can get the job done. I wish there it was an apropiatte law to make them legal and I will do it right now.
This is just another crazy republican idea... lets send back all the hispanics and create an even worst economy problem than the one we already have at hand! And by the way is this happening in a LDS state were compassion should be our biggest thing sometimes I just feel ashamed of some of our church members!
So who is going to work construction, hospitality and agriculture...white rich kids?...I don't think so!
I'm in a management position and some of my guys are here illegally, and I wouldn't change them for anything. They do a great job and they have a great work ethic, and by the way I pay them as much as I will pay anyone else who can get the job done. I wish there it was an apropiatte law to make them legal and I will do it right now.
This is just another crazy republican idea... lets send back all the hispanics and create an even worst economy problem than the one we already have at hand! And by the way is this happening in a LDS state were compassion should be our biggest thing sometimes I just feel ashamed of some of our church members!
Pop Smoke | 1:12 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Re Phillip Hotchkiss,
Why do you assume we are against anyone trying to better themselves? And are you implying that people in other countries can't better themselves without sneaking into the U.S.? We are not against self-improvement... We ARE against people breaking the law to better themselves. That's why we have laws against bank robbery.
That's also why we have laws against people who make money by exploiting undocumented workers, which is at the root of this problem. We just don't enforce them.
Our immigration laws are not there to stop immigration. They are there to control it. Controlled immigration builds and strengthens this country, while protecting the health and well being of those who already live here, not to mention our culture, and our heritage. Uncontrolled immigration will bring this great country to its knees. What good can we do then?
Why do you assume we are against anyone trying to better themselves? And are you implying that people in other countries can't better themselves without sneaking into the U.S.? We are not against self-improvement... We ARE against people breaking the law to better themselves. That's why we have laws against bank robbery.
That's also why we have laws against people who make money by exploiting undocumented workers, which is at the root of this problem. We just don't enforce them.
Our immigration laws are not there to stop immigration. They are there to control it. Controlled immigration builds and strengthens this country, while protecting the health and well being of those who already live here, not to mention our culture, and our heritage. Uncontrolled immigration will bring this great country to its knees. What good can we do then?
Mission to Mexico | 1:25 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Well I served a mission to Mexico and had to wait stateside for 6 months,
why...to enter Mexico LEGALLY! I would love to just show up in Mexico, expect
everyone to speak to me in English, expect the government to pay for my
healthcare and teach my kids for free! Illlegal Immigration is ruining America!
These people have no right to be here and SHOULD be deported!
Anonymous | 1:47 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
RE Mission to Mexico: that is the kind of Elders that represent our religion no
compassion at all, no wonder people from other religion hate us, go ahead
brother keep showing up in Church every Sunday even though I don't think is
helping too much...!
Anonymous | 1:48 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
I'm usually against anti-immigration bills, but this one may be one I would
support. Requiring businesses to withhold taxes at the highest rate till
documented proof that the person has the right to work here will ensure taxes
are paid, and potentially paid in excess if they so choose to move elsewhere is
a sound call.
Denying children the right to an education has already been dealt with by the Supreme Court. The earlier poster who wants to punish the children does not know the law, that schools cannot deny children of foreign nationals the right to education if they are here, and would be better off moving to a deserted island where his extreme views could be voted on and accepted by a population of one.
Denying children the right to an education has already been dealt with by the Supreme Court. The earlier poster who wants to punish the children does not know the law, that schools cannot deny children of foreign nationals the right to education if they are here, and would be better off moving to a deserted island where his extreme views could be voted on and accepted by a population of one.
Thank you | 1:50 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Thank you Sen. Bill Hickman for finally taking action. The huge majority of Utah
citizens is behind you 110%. Keep up the great work!
Hate Speech | 1:59 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
What a bunch of ignorant fascists.
re: mission to mexico | 2:01 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
You are the kind of church member I was talikng about b-fore,you sure show up in
church every Sunday, but you sure don't learn hardly anything!
You know that Jesus was about compassion...don't you?
You know that Jesus was about compassion...don't you?
A History Lesson | 1:56 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Since the land of Utah was forcefully taken in a trumped up war (with the intent
to extort land) perhaps we should just give it back with all the other land we
stole from Mexico during the Spanish American war.
Just think about it the next time you feel like spouting off about the illegals. This land belonged to them at one time, and we took it. Prior to that it was the Utes and other native tribes.
Just think about it the next time you feel like spouting off about the illegals. This land belonged to them at one time, and we took it. Prior to that it was the Utes and other native tribes.
Carlitos | 1:56 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Immigrants don't ruin America. They're the only ones who work. Who
ruins America are those millions of fat slobs who watch TV all day, Shop and
Walmart, and stuff their faces with McDonalds. The leaders of the future. Gimme
a break. They can't even sit down and read a book for two seconds.
Anonymous | 2:03 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
Mission to Mexico:
Did you not learn the lesson of compassion and charity while supposing serving the people you now profess to hate?
Did you not learn the lesson of compassion and charity while supposing serving the people you now profess to hate?
Mike | 2:05 p.m. Feb. 9, 2008
ema:
If you're knowingly employing illegals, you should be prosecuted immediately.
You are the biggest part of this problem.
Why do we keep complaining about the Federal Government when the States can take action.
Thank heaven for these Utah legislators who want to get things under control. If we don't fix it now, it will be twice the problem in a few years.
Democrats should be ashamed of their ridiculous position of enabling illegals.
If you're knowingly employing illegals, you should be prosecuted immediately.
You are the biggest part of this problem.
Why do we keep complaining about the Federal Government when the States can take action.
Thank heaven for these Utah legislators who want to get things under control. If we don't fix it now, it will be twice the problem in a few years.
Democrats should be ashamed of their ridiculous position of enabling illegals.
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