Reader comments
McCain wins Florida primary
116 comments | Read story
Congrats Mitt!!! | 12:35 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Another Silver Medal!!!!
Robert from NC | 1:52 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
We here in NC may still get the chance to be the deciders of this race. Mitt has
no quit in him and McCain has no scruples. McCain told lies about Mitt and the
news media backed him up and repeated them ad nauseum. The German propagandist
Goebells said "If you tell a lie long enough it becomes the truth.".
McCain learned this lesson well. Mitt should counter with telling the truth more
emphatically, while maintaining his standard of not personally attacking his
opponents character. However I can attack McCain's character or lack
thereof. He has fooled some people into believing he is a serious candidate. But
McCain, like Ross Perot did in 1992 and 1996, is working to get another Clinton
in the white house. If he wins the Republican nomination, with his liberal bias,
he will turn off the conservative Republicans. They will stay home and the
Senate and House, as well as the White House, will be filled with Dems. A vote
for John McCain is a vote for Hillary Clinton. Please support Mitt as I plan to
do and let's have a real chance for peace and prosperity.
Tab L. Uno | 2:03 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
The news article doesn't seem to represent balanced reporting to me.
Comments continue below
No Chance | 2:49 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
This was our last chance to elect someone extremely intelligent who has both
private and government experience. I can't say I like the way he has run
his campaign. It's a no win to be in the extreme conservative side since
there is only 25% - 30% (not far from what he's won in MI and Fla) who are
in that camp and many see these policies/views as another 4 years of
Bush/Cheney. If he had run as a moderate, he would have done better and been
more believable.
Doug | 3:01 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
What a terribly written story. The republicans HAD a front-runner prior to the
Florida primary. It was Romney. But the liberal media didn't want to
admit that there was a front-runner until it was someone they wanted. When is
Romney going to get the credit he deserves?
Anyone but McCain | 3:21 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Many McCain supporters are die-hard Bush fans. Nothing will change from what we
have today: a dunce in the oval office who will spend us into oblivion and
invite illegal aliens to the U. S. with open arms. Hey, John, who's the
hot, young chick with you?
Alex | 4:13 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Ok so McCain won Florida, big deal; a state where Cubans and retirees make a
majority of the population is not an average state. Romney will carry all the
western states, and he might do well in California too. Conservatives won't
stand still and won't allow McCain to be the GOP nominee.
jimmyboy | 4:56 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Silver medals don't cut it at this stage of the game
Silver Medal | 5:07 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Silver Medal means diddly sqat. Silver medal means zero delegate. Mitt Romney is
just about finished. Go McCain.
Maury | 5:21 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Unfortunately, what happened in the last few days prior to the Florida election
appears to be the same thing the Republican party did when we elected Bob Dole
to be the nominee--it was his turn. The GOP has a long history of the
establishment bending over backward to give the nomination to the guy who's
been trying long and hard and it's just "his turn". When Crist
and Martinez announced last-minute endorsements, Guliani talking about the
same... it's more evidence that, as a party, the GOP is ready to set up for
a loss in the general election by putting up the wrong nominee. I just hope
Super Tuesday somehow changes things for Romney... so close, it will be
interesting with Guliani out of the race--I can only hope that Huckabee will
drop out, too... but, probably not, because he'll stay just to make things
easier for McCain, too.
Why McCain isn't a conservative | 5:41 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
To become a true Utah conservative, it's required that all candidates take
a rabies test. John McCain's test came out negative, so he was
disqualified.
james stowe | 5:48 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
To all the dilluted LDS out there:
GOD and my SAVIOR stepped in again to save the USA.
FLORIDA DOES NOT WANT A LDS USA PRESIDENT!
The only good thing Mitt is doing is pumping his
own money into the economy
A fool and his money will soon depart.
May God save the USA. Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GOD and my SAVIOR stepped in again to save the USA.
FLORIDA DOES NOT WANT A LDS USA PRESIDENT!
The only good thing Mitt is doing is pumping his
own money into the economy
A fool and his money will soon depart.
May God save the USA. Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bobbi | 5:51 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
No silver in FL - it is winner takes all, everyone else gets nada.
Bret | 5:47 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Romney or Democrats, NEVER McCain!! I don't trust him at all, especially
his position on ADA and illegal immigrants.
Sally | 6:03 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
If McCain now wins the Republican nomination, who do Utah conservatives vote
for? McCain calls himself a conservative, but is clearly a rogue--he calls
himself a "maverick" because he has a history of opposing conservative
values. And like Bush, he does whatever he wants and the people can go hang.
Because of the large number of unaffiliated voters in Utah (60%), we can still
defeat McCain by voting for Obama, who is the only one who can defeat him in a
general election. Come on, Utah, vote for someone who can pull this country
together. Hillary will polarize, as will McCain. Neither have their party base
with them anymore!
J Lowe | 6:15 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Mitt -- UR still the 1!!! Please get on your campaign managers in Missouri,
where I live, though? No one is getting back to us on yard signs and campaign
materials!!! Thanks...onward and upward!
Anti McCain | 7:00 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
To: james stowe
You good folks in Florida will think twice when Mr. McCain opens another Cuban boat floatilla like his mentor Jimmy Carter. You'll be over-run with more illegal aliens from your south and south-west. Best of luck to you Mr. Stowe. I hope you like tacos and the peso. Good luck when you try to escape from the sunshine state.
You good folks in Florida will think twice when Mr. McCain opens another Cuban boat floatilla like his mentor Jimmy Carter. You'll be over-run with more illegal aliens from your south and south-west. Best of luck to you Mr. Stowe. I hope you like tacos and the peso. Good luck when you try to escape from the sunshine state.
winning team | 7:05 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Any Democrat nominee would be proud to have McCain for a VP. Trouble is, Mitt
would fit right in there too.
TS | 7:05 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Let's see what new story Mitt can come up with now. He'll change what
he stands for just like before Michigan.. Too bad all the mormon states have
voted and it's downhill for the mittster.
agreed | 7:12 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
I'm encouraged that I'm not the only one that sees McCain as a Bush
clone. Hopefully the rest of the nation will get clued into that before next
Tuesday. But let's face it, even Mitt is in favor of the war in Iraq.
With a Republican president, the war will never end. I don't generally
vote Democrat but if we want the war to end we've got to keep the
Republicans out of the White House. Hopefully the Dem. nominee will be Obama but
I'd even vote for Hillary over McCain any day.
Bruce Van Orden | 7:16 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
I am a Mormon who does not support Mitt Romney for the presidency. In fact
there are many of us LDS throughout the land who do not. His many dishonest and
mean-spirited attacks against both Republican and possible Democratic opponents
have truly been embarrasing to me. He also shows so much more attention to
corporate well-being than that of the poor and needy in the country. I suggest
we re-read King Benjamin's address in Mosiah 2-5. He wants enhanced
interrogation techniques and wants to fight on and on in Iraq. How about
D&C 98 and Alma 43 and 46? Is it not possible for the people of Utah to
think finally for themselves and not just act like sheep politically? Having
said all this, I still pray for Mitt Romneya and his family in their quest for
eternal life.
Confused Ameicans | 7:20 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
I'm just wondering if my facts are correct? If McCain won the bid and the
presidency, wouldn't he be 76 when he finished his term as presidency.
Does that not seem weird to America, with all the taxing pressures (no pun
intended) placed on the President. Maybe Huckabee can win the Presidency...all
he would have to do is become the Vice President on the ticket.
Go Mitt!!!
Go Mitt!!!
russ | 7:21 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
McCain won, fair and square. The repubs of FL have spoken. Mitt will still stay
around, $$$ matters.
Guiliani will support McCain and that will energize the McCain forces and get some much needed gas ($$$). Don't know how it is going to come out. Could be very close: Huck is hoping so. He will continue to run because there are networks of people who think like he does, called home-schoolers if you wish. Huck has a well that runs very deep in America.
Meanwhile, back at winners' headquarters, the demo's are watching a great show: Edwards, a very capable person, is going to fold up his 3rd place finish act and bow to Obama. Hillary will just put the petal to the metal and race on! Obama, if he stays above the fray, will win.
And Obama and Edwards in the fall will crushmashdestroyclobber whomever the repubs put up. Youthvitalityfairnesschangeoptimism and opportunities wins over ageinfirmity and Huck. Visual comparisons will win out.
Hate to see Edwards bow out: he got caught between two inevitable forces. Not his year. Not his hour. But he certainly speaks in full sentences and makes sense. Would make a very good vp.
Guiliani will support McCain and that will energize the McCain forces and get some much needed gas ($$$). Don't know how it is going to come out. Could be very close: Huck is hoping so. He will continue to run because there are networks of people who think like he does, called home-schoolers if you wish. Huck has a well that runs very deep in America.
Meanwhile, back at winners' headquarters, the demo's are watching a great show: Edwards, a very capable person, is going to fold up his 3rd place finish act and bow to Obama. Hillary will just put the petal to the metal and race on! Obama, if he stays above the fray, will win.
And Obama and Edwards in the fall will crushmashdestroyclobber whomever the repubs put up. Youthvitalityfairnesschangeoptimism and opportunities wins over ageinfirmity and Huck. Visual comparisons will win out.
Hate to see Edwards bow out: he got caught between two inevitable forces. Not his year. Not his hour. But he certainly speaks in full sentences and makes sense. Would make a very good vp.
Anonymous | 7:21 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
From here, McCain's win does not represent the choice of Floridians. Of
course not. Rather, it represents something wrong.
It's clintons' fault, and of course the liberal media. They caused it.
Because in Utah, the choice isn't one or the other. It's only ever our way or the wrong way.
It's clintons' fault, and of course the liberal media. They caused it.
Because in Utah, the choice isn't one or the other. It's only ever our way or the wrong way.
Aaron | 7:39 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
James Stowe:
I think we all know who the dilluted one is in this conversation..
As far as Mccain goes.. I 'am a conservative who would rather vote for Hillary than John McCain. If some one is going to mess up the country.. lets have it be a democrat. Not John McCain.. the only republican in the Keating 5 S&L scandal.
I think we all know who the dilluted one is in this conversation..
As far as Mccain goes.. I 'am a conservative who would rather vote for Hillary than John McCain. If some one is going to mess up the country.. lets have it be a democrat. Not John McCain.. the only republican in the Keating 5 S&L scandal.
McCain will drop | 7:42 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
McCain's appeal will not carry the US. Once again american amnesia has set
in on his record. This guy is far from a conservative. He also stooped to
throwing out lies about Mitt which even the Media criticized him for. It will
all catch up to him. McCain will drop. The Republican base will not elect a
middle of the road-leaning left candidate.
Rich | 7:43 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
I've hated most of what Bush has done except for three things: war on
terror, tax cuts and nominations of Roberts and Alito. Otherwise he has done
the exact opposite of what is needed domestically: reduce governmental spending,
growth and interference, simplify taxes, prevent monopolies, enforce immigration
laws, make it much easier to get alien work permits (with no "path to
citizenship) and protect our environment while increasing oil exploration and
extraction. McCain likely will reverse the tax cuts while continuing the war in
Iraq, nominate judges that share his mixture of liberal and conservative ideas,
continue stifling free speech by creating more McCain-Feingold legislation, do
nothing to increase oil production, do little to encourage a development of
alternative energy, give to illegal aliens the right to stay in this country for
a few thousand dollars along with a right to citizenship (which is a clear
advantage over aliens who have been waiting years to enter the country legally),
and continue the complicated tax code that he helped bring into existence, a tax
code that drains many of us by requiring many of us to hire accountants instead
of more productive workers.
JD | 7:54 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Somebody help me! What is the McCain lure? He is a liberal wrapped in a
republican blanket, he has no visual appeal and no personality. His ideas are
outright scary. I can't imagine anyone voting for him. What am I missing?
Anon | 7:55 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
The political pundits (all on the East Coast) annoited Guiliani, then Thompson
and now McCain, their own true favorite, because of his anti-establishment ways.
Guiliani and Thompson were only running to keep their little trophy wives
smiling and blinking up at them. McCain really wants it, but he doesn't
represent the republican platform and conservative monetary positions on taxes
and immigration. Therefore look to Hilary to get democratic nomination and
squeak into the oval office. That's how her husband beat Bush I and Bob
Dole. The Republican politicals abandonned their base voters. Mitt will be the
Republican nominee or Hilary will be the President. Get ready for the
Schoolmarm, and ideal President for the Me Generation.
CTMac | 8:04 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Aaron has it right. Romney or Giuliani are as liberal as I could handle.
McCain or Huckabee are too far left and will destroy the party, or possibly
create enough of a backlash that it will correct itself in the coming years.
We'll see.
If McCain wins the Repub, vote Dem! Let them take the blame for the bad economy, and we can finally get a TRUE conservative as our nominee in 4 years.
If McCain wins the Repub, vote Dem! Let them take the blame for the bad economy, and we can finally get a TRUE conservative as our nominee in 4 years.
Mayhem Mike | 8:02 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
James Stowe, the only thing "dilluted" is your command of spelling. .
.Everyone else, read Laura Ingraham's book, "Power To The
People," and, especially the chapter on illegal immigration. Then, see if
you're happy about John McAmnesty winning.
cccyyycccIII | 8:10 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
The real question for Utah is whether the Gov. Huntsman will part with McCain
for his lying, or whether the Gov. will stay on plan to be a Senator when Hatch
retires, and keep friendly with McCain for that purpose.
hogwash | 8:08 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
McCain or Romney? Who cares about either of these losers. Either dope can be
the captain of the republican Titanic. The all will be going down.
PS - I do like to see Romney spend his money and still get beat in the meantime.
PS - I do like to see Romney spend his money and still get beat in the meantime.
Keith, California | 8:14 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Rich and JD, you are so right. I always encouraged my students to know the
issues and vote. I honestly can't believe what people are thinking. If
McCain is the nominee, I may sit out this election. America may need four years
of pain from the Far Left to what is happening to this country.
Gcran8333 | 8:36 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Bruce, tone down self righteousness. I'm a mormon too and a big Romney
supporter. Stating other candidate's records is not embarrassing or
negative advertising, it's telling the truth. The other candidates need to
quit whining and back up their own records. If we bail out of Iraq, you're
going to have the terrorists at your front door and. Don't try and quote
scripture to back your political agenda. I can quote just as many with the wars
that were fought preserving justice. MaCain is too old and a liar, and if he
get's the nomination you'll see Hillary or Obama in the white house
and then watch your taxes go sky high and the security of this country go right
down the toilet.
Dutchman | 8:38 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
I love Romney but I am afraid that this is the beginning of the end for him.
Too bad. He is the brightest and most qualified executive material. He has
actually fixed things big time. What has McCain done except growl and grow old!
I only wish that when Romney attended BYU that he had graduated from ROTC with
a commission and done a tour of duty in Vietnam. That would have put
"veteran" and war experience on his resume. Then with his economic
prowess he would have clobbered everybody. Oh, well.
Michael | 8:39 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
"America may need four years of pain from the Far Left to what is happening
in this country"???? Yes, the last seven years have been so wonderful- we
have created artificial economic prosperity by taxing future generations though
deficits and have benefitted from a housing bubble. We have continued to rely
exclusively on fossil fuels and send money that we borrow from the Chineese to
the Arabs to pay for it. We need to get big oil out of the whitehouse and start
planning for a solar and alternative energy economy. (Germany currently leads
the world and has created 170,000 solar industry jobs and is on the way to
producing 30% of energy with solar).
It will be McCain (and Hucklebee?) vs Obama (and Richardson?)- anyone will be a vast improvement over Bush. Mitt will win Utah primary, but is otherwise done.
It will be McCain (and Hucklebee?) vs Obama (and Richardson?)- anyone will be a vast improvement over Bush. Mitt will win Utah primary, but is otherwise done.
Jersey Boy | 8:54 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
McCain, Obama, Clinton? What have they accomplished? Yea, McCain was a POW over
35 years ago. Since then, what? Heaven help us for the next 4 years. I'm
sure the terrorists are scared to death. Unfortunately, we won't be able to
turn back the clock.
Rob | 8:56 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
I know what you mean JD.
RE: Silver Medal | 8:56 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
I was being Sarcastic.
2 bits | 9:17 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
I'm just glad religion wasn't a big topic of debate in Florida.
yorktown | 9:19 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Ok, so we're down to four republicans running and you're only
mentioning three. When Huckabee drops out, are you really only going to mention
the top two? Ron Paul is still in this race. This is beyond ridiculous.
Report the NEWS!!!!!!
McCain? No Way! | 9:22 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
I really don't think I can vote for McCain if he wins the nomination. He is
way too far left for my taste. I realize that a vote for anyone else is a vote
for the Democrats but I would rather have two years of Hillary or Obama than
have McCain. I say two years because I think that, after two years, America will
vote a Republican Senate and Congress back into power. If McCain wins then I am
afraid the Senate and Congress will remain in the Democrat's hands and we
will be in really bad shape. Just my opinion.
To You, James Stowe | 9:26 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
I read with interest your comment. It appears you vote on religious lines,
rather than studying a candidate�s platform on the
�issues� that matter most to him/her.
Making intelligent "undiluted" decisions on a presidential candidate
is based on this, not their religion. Try, sometime, to study a
candidate�s profile, watch the debates and learn; read and
ask questions. Again, try it sometime.
The Raven | 9:42 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Next week, get out and vote for Mitt Romney. It's the last chance
conservatives have to get a conservative Republican nominee this time around. If
McCain wins, I'm certain we will have a Democrat in the White House next
year. McCain is a pathetic candidate. Last summer he was pushing amnesty for
illegal immigrants and his funding dried up. For some inexplicable reason,
voters have a short memory and are now voting for this maverick (aka liberal)
Republican. McCain is the worst possible candidate of all the Republicans who
ran this time around. If nominated, he will create a Democratic landslide this
Fall! Vote for Mitt next week.
Eric | 9:45 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Apologies to non-LDS readers.
Gcran8333- Please do quote some of your scriptures, and please explain to us how you can compare the BoM wars with the Iraq war. Unless you are comparing us to the Lamanites, as the aggressors, I don't see how you could ever justify a "pre-emptive" war based on LDS scripture. Just humor Bruce and actually read the references he's listed. Then feel free to give us your references.
There is only one candidate for president I've seen who would qualify for the serious LDS vote - and it ain't Romney. Many LDS whine about other voters not voting for Romney because of his religion. The sad fact is that these people are hypocrites.
Gcran8333- Please do quote some of your scriptures, and please explain to us how you can compare the BoM wars with the Iraq war. Unless you are comparing us to the Lamanites, as the aggressors, I don't see how you could ever justify a "pre-emptive" war based on LDS scripture. Just humor Bruce and actually read the references he's listed. Then feel free to give us your references.
There is only one candidate for president I've seen who would qualify for the serious LDS vote - and it ain't Romney. Many LDS whine about other voters not voting for Romney because of his religion. The sad fact is that these people are hypocrites.
Anonymous | 9:52 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
I am a Mormon who does NOT endorse Mitty RoMoney. His dishonesty does not
reflect my values.
GO McCain '08!
GO McCain '08!
Romney and Moses | 9:52 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Romney told a reporter he doesn't believe God has spoken to anyone since
Moses. Search for it. It's on the Internet. I can't tell you where,
because the DNews is blocking my posts on the subject, and I think it might be
because it references a video Web site.
fr1nk | 9:57 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
My opinion differs somewhat from the majority on here. I think McCain is the
candidate that I would least like to see in the general election. I say that
because I want Obama to win and I think he stacks up better against the other
gop candidates. I hope all of you who say they will not vote or vote for the
democrat if McCain gets the nomination are telling the truth, and I hope the
rest of the country follows suit.
To: No Chance | 10:08 a.m. Jan. 30, 2008
Dear No Chance. PLEEAAASSSSEEEEE... don't refer to Romney as a
'conservative.' What the person says he is right now to appease his
agenda is not congruent with his prior actions at any time in his political
career! He is an apologetic liberal currently in the Wolf's clothing of a
conservative Republican... but a conservative he is not.
After his conceding the Florida primary comments last night, one only has to listen closely to see that he's running for the nomination of president in the wrong party. He's a closet Liberal, and regardless of the issues concerning his religion, the greater issue which the voters of America are looking at is his being a Kerryesque Flip-Flopper.
Republicans don't want him because he's insincere and morphs like a chameleon too much for their comfort, and Democrats wouldn't have him because he betrayed liberalism.
The best thing Romney can do for the Republican party, the nation, his church and family interests, is to realize that God isn't going to deliver him from the free will of the American people to choose!
If he's such a good businessman, why is he tanking hundreds of millions of dollars into a loosing effort?
After his conceding the Florida primary comments last night, one only has to listen closely to see that he's running for the nomination of president in the wrong party. He's a closet Liberal, and regardless of the issues concerning his religion, the greater issue which the voters of America are looking at is his being a Kerryesque Flip-Flopper.
Republicans don't want him because he's insincere and morphs like a chameleon too much for their comfort, and Democrats wouldn't have him because he betrayed liberalism.
The best thing Romney can do for the Republican party, the nation, his church and family interests, is to realize that God isn't going to deliver him from the free will of the American people to choose!
If he's such a good businessman, why is he tanking hundreds of millions of dollars into a loosing effort?
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
Don Emmert, Getty Images
Arizona Sen. John McCain celebrates with his wife, Cindy, after his triumph in Florida puts him in first place over rival Mitt Romney.
Related content
- Thunderbirds dynasty lives on 9:39 p.m.
- Utah Utes basketball at a glance 9:34 p.m.
- BYU basketball at a glance 9:33 p.m.
- Utes face stiff test in opener 9:30 p.m.
- Cougars ready for veteran opponent 9:22 p.m.
- Historically, Utes have owned TCU 9:20 p.m.
- Unga family is making its mark 9:18 p.m.
- Jazz not putting in effort 9:17 p.m.
- Selfishness to blame for Jazz woes? 9:15 p.m.
- Fatal crash on I-15 in Cedar City 9:08 p.m.
- House passes health care bill
334 - SLC council OKs gay rights policies318
- TCU showdown has big implications195
- Senators want food tax restored158
- Cougars crush hapless Cowboys155
- Editorial: Mormons and gay rights139
- Will state consider gay rights law?137
- Utah Jazz fall apart against Kings131
- TCU 4th in AP poll; U. 16th, Y. 22nd119
- Letters: Strange breed in Utah118
Maybe someone out there can help me understand how raising the state...
Advertisement
Latest comments
The concept is too crazy to deserve comment.
Over-rated. The fact that the y was ever rated in the top 20 this or last...
Any coach can tell you that there is something to be said about having your...
Up to $1 million dollars for economic impact for this estimated gross imapct...
Your judgments of "ugly girlfriends" show your lack of "intrepidity or moral...
When times were tough, John and Karl used to say everyone including...
You can't expect someone who considers abortion to be murder to pay for your...
I really had to laugh when I read your comment. Hinds is good, but honestly...
If The Utes would hap to beat TCU. Then I know BYU would take dowm the...
You people who want to bash on Hall Seriously need to get a life. You need to...
Advertisements