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Outcry over loss of BYU program

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Tab L. Uno, LCSW | 12:33 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

When Utah State and Southern Utah State can each offer a Bachelor's Social Work Programs, in addition to the Uiversity of Utah and to have Utah Valley State College considering to develop a Bachelor program it really puts a big question mark on David Magleby's argument that they can't get qualified staff to maintain its own Bachelor's program. When BYU with its national ranking as a private university can't handle a Bachelors program in social work, its really says something about the entire university. Perhaps as a private school, it doesn't need to care about the community that surrounds it, perhaps its focus is on some other spiritual plane, but unfortunately on this issue it doesn't seem concerned about earthly matters even though spirituality and social work have been gaining alot of attention lately. I guess BYU hasn't gotten the word. The might do well then to listen to the University of Utah when it comes to spirituality and social work.

Jeff | 12:37 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

I think this is the same guy who eliminated the Home Economics Department a few years ago. My wife was a Home Economics Education major (graduated before the cancellation of the program), and has heard horror stories about how students and faculty in the Home Ec Department were treated.

When BYU has solicited for donations, we have donated to the General Fund, and to the College of Engineering (my college), but we refuse to donate to the college of Family, Home and Social Sciences (they might as well remove the "Family" and "Home").

What is the mission of BYU anyway? It seems to me like it has become "be like everyone else".

Tom Plumer | 4:57 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

I had a son in that program. It was a disgrace to the university.

Comments continue below

Accreditation | 5:18 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

BYU, like any university, needs to weigh costs v. programs. You may not be aware of it, but BYU is one of the cheapest Universities in the U.S. while maintaining an excellent reputation, even if a Mormon University. Nope, we are not mormon. Next year, we will be paying 18,OOO dollars per year for our daughter's education here in Georgia.

Yes, it is sad to be losing one undergraduate degree program, but better that then losing accreditation in the entire department which it clearly is at risk. There are other universities that do still offer the program for undergraduates or you may chose plan "b" at BYU, which consists of a different degree and 2,000 hours of supervised internship. Add to that it seems that UVSC may well be able to financially pick up the slack and add a social work degree and the point becomes moot because one would only need to travel 10 minutes to a different university.

Again, it all comes down to $ and clearly the social work program doesn't produce benefactors/alumni that can contribute those dollars to keep the program going.

Why thi is an outrage!!! | 6:25 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

I thought that these guys were Perfect..everything the do is Perfect, everyone they know is Perfect , Perfect..whip-ddee-do, getrdone, stuff. I quess the world is not their campus anymore just for some and if Romney gets in..expect more.

Whatever | 7:36 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

'"This is not a done deal. We will fight this forever," said Marc Gilchrist'

Yes, it is. No, you won't. Much like the Gold's protesters, Mark suffers from a lack of understanding of reality.

Meaningless protest | 8:38 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

...or those students could just earn their Master's degree at ANOTHER university.

Me | 8:42 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

One problem of making a college a university is the emphasis on graduate programs at the expense of the undergrad programs. We can see that BYU is no different than other universities in this regard.

RockOn | 8:46 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

What a waste of ink or electrons. BSW canceled. Go somewhere else. Get a life. You're going to "fight this forever." No wonder you're in the field... you need help.

BYU or any university can add or subtract programs to their hearts content. That's what they do. To whine about it is just silly.

ron | 9:02 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

The last comment: "totally out of the blue" is kind of funny if you think about it...

Silly | 9:36 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

No, I'm not talking about the elimination of this major at BYU, I'm referring to the reaction of all these "protesters" and the two people that have already left comments. Do you not realize that some of the best universities in the nation have eliminated this same program because it just doesn't make sense anymore? You can get a bachelor's in another degree and then get your masters. Then you are actually marketable. Who cares if the other universities have these programs or if UVU is thinking about adding it. They are behind the times. You people are silly and way too quick to condemn your alma mater.

Anonymous | 10:32 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

First of all, why does BYU owe anyone "advance notice" except for the students themselves. They don't owe public agencies anything. I agree with Silly, who is correct that it's possible -- and I would add preferrable -- to get a BS in something else and then get an MS.

And home economics is not an academic program.

I, for one, am heartened and encouraged by BYU's recent actions.

BYU BSW 01 | 10:42 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

I think one of the big problems of not having a BSW program at BYU is that students will no longer qualify for advanced standing MSW programs after graduation. If you only have to pay for one year of grad school, You can go to some of the better schools out there and not have to worry about BYU's MSW wich is too competative for what it has to offer and Utahs MSW program which is good but not excellent.

But, I think The BYU MSW programs function is to supply LDS Social Services and administrators may see that as a greater need for the Church as a whole

Anonymous | 10:45 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

***"When Utah State and Southern Utah State can each offer a Bachelor's Social Work Programs...it really puts a big question mark on David Magleby's argument that they can't get qualified staff to maintain its own Bachelor's program."*** - Tab Uno

My (admittedly vague) understanding of social work is that it is one of the more leftish professions. If that's true, would that make it tougher for a more conservative school like BYU to attract qualified professors?

And what is the purpose of a social work major, exactly? Again, not expressing a view - just asking.

Getoverit | 11:27 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

BYU can do what it wants and will do what it wants. I love the points made already to this. If you don't like it go some where else. If its so important to you then go some where else. If you can't deal with not haveing free employees to do your work maybe you need to re-evaluate the situation.

soon to be MSW | 11:45 a.m. Jan. 20, 2008

I respectfully disagree with Tab Uno about the U merging spirituality and social work. I am a student in their social work grad program. Outside of one professor, Dr. Dave Derozotes, one never hears about spiritulaity here.

Deal with it... | 12:28 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

Personally, I'm glad they cancelled the program. While BYU could do more to reach out to the community, one could say that about every other university in this state. Frankly, I think BYU students perform more service than most university students do. It's not the university's responsibility to staff institutions with free labor.
BYU felt that it was in the best interest of the institution. Universities make simililar decisions on a daily basis, deal with it.

Yawn! | 1:22 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

Okay so they get rid of the BSw and want you to go straight for the Masters. The reason because too many people get the Bachelor's Degree and then go else where for their MSW. We have a lot of people who come to the U of New Hampshire to get their MSW/Family Counseling after obtaining the BSW at BYU. It cost more to go to UNH but they do get the experience and the job. BYU is just out the money and the community loses its free advice.

Kyle | 1:24 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

It is clear there are many comments here by people who haven't done their homework, and they are talking about a profession/degree they know little about. I am from another state, and it took a community crisis for all of us to open our eyes to see the many valuable things that come from Social Work - including the bachelor level license. Social Work is listed on all of the most needed career lists for the future. UVSC knows the value of the degree and has tried for years to get an accredited program. The bottom line with BYU is we have a Dean over the college who is making a political and a money decision. He has reported to the students he consulted heavily with community agencies, faculty, alumni, and students, yet the students' research could not identify anyone who had been consulted. Yes, they can make a decision on their own if they want to, but when they say they have consulted with many, and they have not, that is not being honest BYU.

Dave | 1:27 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

I work for a community agency (I have changed my name)and I along with 5 other agency heads told Dean Magelby that we are against this decision. The hour after our meeting, he told the students and the media that he had just met with community heads and that we are in favor and supportive of this decision. We have made multiple attempts to contact BYU administration to tell them how displeased we are with the fact we were falsely represented but top administration will not have an audience with anyone. I know,, I have tried dozens of times. Why can't BYU at least be honest about all this?

Anonymous | 1:48 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

***My (admittedly vague) understanding of social work is that it is one of the more leftish professions. If that's true, would that make it tougher for a more conservative school like BYU to attract qualified professors?*** Anonymous

And what is the purpose of a social work major, exactly? Again, not expressing a view - just asking.

***I respectfully disagree with Tab Uno about the U merging spirituality and social work. I am a student in their social work grad program. Outside of one professor, Dr. Dave Derozotes, one never hears about spiritulaity here.*** soon to be MSW

The U of U Graduate School of Social Work promotes spirituality as the fourth force of social work. However, the amount of spiritual training is admittedly limited. Thus perhaps a BYU BSW program is ESSENTIAL if our state wishes to provide qualified clinical social workers in state where religion has such deep roots. What could BYU be thinking? Or perhaps one man?

Tab L. Uno, LCSW | 2:05 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

The comment about spirituality and social work is a legitmate concern here. If BYU doesn't retain its BSW program, it is severely limiting its own pool of spiritual MSW applicants who have been trained in spirituality and LDS doctrine. But for those on the front lines, the need for clinical social workers with a solid background in LDS doctrine remains great. Where will BYU's truly dedicated MSW faculty come from while the availability of truly inspired social work undergraduate students are pushed aside for other programs? While I'm no LDS Mormon, that doesn't mean the LDS client don't deserve the best counseling services possible. There is a great need for mental health services among the LDS population but if the Church believes that such matters can be solely handled by a belief and devotion in God, then so be it.

Melissa | 2:18 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

Thank you Tab Uno for your comments. You seem to provide some very level-headed and objective information. I would hope BYU would pay attention to the points you are making. I think BYU is being very closed minded about this, and not looking at the bigger picture. Where is the LDS Church in all of this? I know that LDS Family Services is not happy about this, since they employ more BSWs than ever - I have a family member who is one of them, and they will continue to need more of them.

Shawna | 2:19 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

I am a student at the U of U who has tried for 2 years to get into a social work program at the U. I have studied a lot about the social work profession. These are individuals who don't get paid a lot, and they work in sometimes very tough settings with not a lot of benefits. They take care of our elderly, our disabled, our mentally ill. They've gotten a bad rap sometimes in the media as being protrayed as people who take kids out of homes, when in reality that rarely happens, and that is only under a judge's orders. Most social workers have nothing to do with being remotely involved with removing kids from homes. My own family is saved and still together because of several social workers who acted as our family's payee when my dad was disabled. Another social worker was our therapist in family counseling. I've also researched quite a few universities with social work degrees. Most of those I have found are trying to increase their social work programs, rather than close them, because of the increasing need there is and will be for them. BYU WHAT ARE YOU THINKING???????

Bruce J. | 2:35 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

Maybe there are more qualified people to teach social work than Madgley or "the univeristy know.
I have an MSSW and a Ph.D. in anthropology,which is accepted by CSWE to teach. I sure would be willing to help keep the bachelors progam going if they would hire me.

BYU Grad | 2:36 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

Of course there are many more than three students in grad programs in the country who are preparing to teach social work, but remember that BYU essentially hires only LDS faculty. When you take that into consideration, the pool of eligible potential hires gets a lot smaller. To me, it seems conceivable that there won't be enough professors to sustain both programs at the current enrollment levels.

Neil | 2:41 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

Social work is a valuable profession. Social workers can counsel, work for adoption agencies, and corrections and law enforcement. I worked in probation/parole. Many of my co-workers had social work degrees. I think BYU's decision to eliminate such a valuable profession is misguided.

Marcia | 2:48 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

Whether you understand the value of social work or not, there is something that to me is evident that BYU is making a decision that is purely political and sneaky - in other words, they are not being completely honest to their students or faculty about the real reasons. The MSW program at BYU is touted as one of the finest programs in the country. I have heard this multiple times from social work leaders throughout the world. Dean Magleby says he is shutting down the BSW program to build up the Master's program. When it is already extremely great and has such an outstanding reputation, what needs fixing? The Dean also says that there are no future applicants for faculty. There has only been one opening in the past 7 years! How does he know without out posting a job opening. I have a relative who would do anything to work for BYU, yet he keeps getting turned down, with the answer he's not qualified. BYU's Dean Magleby's reasons, just don't hold up!!

BYU not accurate | 2:54 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

Dean Magleby's first announcement to the students and media about the reason why the school was being closed down was: there is no license that comes from the BSW degree, and that the LDS Church does not hire BSWs. Well, the social work bachelor level degree is the ONLY degree on the bachelor level in all of social sciences!! Funny isn't that the Dean said he did extensive research into this - yet he didn't even know this one simple and important truth. Of course he quickly corrected himself 2 weeks later. I phoned up LDS Family Services, and they said they have hired more BSWs in the past 3 years than they have in their existence, since they now use them as their adoption workers. LDS Humanitarian and Welfare agencies also use social workers world-wide, and they volunteer and do internships globally. BYU's Dean Magleby keeps stating how he has done a lot of talking with many people, yet he didn't know these basic facts.

BYU vs. LDS Church | 2:58 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

I know that BYU doesn't want to get embarrassed over the fact they have allowed a Dean to have a lot of power and make decisions, even though they might not be the right ones. However, where is the LDS Church in all this? Wouldn't they want their members served by social workers with LDS values and principles? And who better to do that than BYU - a church owned school.

The Value of Social Work | 3:06 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

I am greatly concerned about BYUï¿½s decision to drop the bachelor of social work program, as well as the manner in which it has been done. The social work bachelor degree is very marketable, by far the most marketable bachelor degree in the social sciences, and the only one that has a license. The education it offers is unique, as it trains individuals to serve in clinical settings and to support more advanced clinicians in those systems. Other majors in the social sciences focus on the study of the individual, family, or community, while social work, as the applied profession, focuses on treating those entities. There is a unique purpose for the social work curriculum, and the Church utilizes individuals with this specific training as employees and interns throughout the world in church employment services, Deseret Industries agencies, church humanitarian aid, and LDS Family Services.

Don't hurt the program | 3:26 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

BYUï¿½s social work program can be improved, just like any program can be improved, but there are other ways of accomplishing this without eliminating one of the finest BSW programs in the country.

What? | 3:26 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

The LDS Church has a social services division to council members in need of such services. It really says something when they choose not to teach their own councilors. Or is cutting that program next because LDS members no longer need such services?

Tom - a social worker | 3:28 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

It is my hope that BYU leaders will create an objective forum where they can do exactly what the Dean has said he has done (but hasnï¿½t), involve students, faculty, community agencies, and advisory board members to gather data and provide input to help BYU make the best possible decision. It is my hope that the current decision can be postponed and a committee of individuals just mentioned from the community can research the claims being made. It is my belief that the findings will be different than those of the Dean. There are many willing to help provide this information who have not been given the opportunity to do so.

A BYU Grad | 3:32 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

My wife is a graduate of the U of U social work program. She loved the U, but she tried for years to get into BYU's program, because it has such a great reputation throughout the country, but never got in. I love BYU and only want what is best for its social work students, as well as for the many agencies, clients and underprivileged individuals and families who will now, not be served by BYU trained social workers.

danite | 3:39 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

If four other universities in Utah offer an undergraduate degree in social work, why does BYU need to offer one as well? After all, BYU doesn't train physicians.

I want to be a homemaker | 4:06 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

I am a married BYU student and the mother of 1 child, soon to be 2. I have worked in the community long enough to find out that the BSW license is the most marketable license one can get in the social sciences. My plan was to enroll in the BSW program, so I can be ready, if needed sometime in my life, to work as a bachelor trained social worker. Doesn't BYU support women getting trained, but also women who want to put their families first? I'm very confused. BYU is now telling me I need to go on and get a Master's degree. The Dean is now telling students he wants them to go on and get PhDs. I don't want that, and will put my family first. I've tried to talk with BYU administrators to convey my thoughts but no one is willing to listen. Does anyone have any recommendations? I know there are other women in the same situation as I, who just want to get BSW degrees. Unfortunately, we are not yet ready to apply for the program, so we are not a part of it yet. Please help!

Bill from South Dakota says | 5:17 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

Quit your whining. A decision was made by the Dean of a department at a private university. This decision is apparently supported by the administration and the board of directors. It may be that they want the U of U, USU and UVSU to absorb the responsibility and $$'s for the undergrad programs. Anyway you look at it, it is their decision to make not yours!!

RE: I want to be homemaker | 5:47 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Simple.

1- Transfer to UVSC, U of U, Utah State.

2- Get a degree in something else then get a masters in social work.

3- Choose a different major.

Jimmy | 6:21 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

Harvard of the West?

Sheesh.

RE: Jimmy | 7:48 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

Who brought Stanford into this?

CTR | 9:19 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

The real reason to eliminate the program probably has nothing to do with money, but instead it is based on the way things are run throughout the LDS church. We have stake presidents and bishops who are the "social workers" of the church. There is no need to have an expensive program at BYU! I know it is wrong, but thats the way it is. Get use to it.

Response | 10:06 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

I'm not a Mormon, but I suggest the victims should talk to the Mormon President Hinkley.

Anonymous | 10:54 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

Funny how so many people resent LDS schools, yet when they realize how much they depend on them they change their tune.

Heartbroken | 11:03 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

I am a BYU BSW and MSW alumni. BYUï¿½s BSW program is a nationally recognized program. The demand has been so great that students have to apply to get into the highly competitive program. With that level of demand and the quality of students who get into the program, it should be considered an ï¿½essentialï¿½ program. During the program, I was always told how BYU social work students are so well known across the nation for the level of their preparedness to join the workforce and the quality of their work. I have met many people that have graduated from other social work programs across the nation and I have to say that NONE of them were as prepared for the work as I was. I am grateful to my BYU social work professors. I could not have gotten the level of education that I received anywhere else, especially for the cost. I believe that there are other reasons than what has been said to cut the program, the reasons stated do not make sense or are not true. I will write letters and make phone calls as long as I can, to try and get this decision reversed.

Julie-BSW, MSW at BYU | 11:09 p.m. Jan. 20, 2008

The BYU BSW program is a great program. It would be a shame to discontinue a program that is so needed. The program has helped me to live a more Christ like life. Indeed the Saviors admonition to ï¿½ bear one anotherï¿½s burdens, that they may be light; yea, and are willing to mourn with those that morn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort,ï¿½ (Mosiah 18:8-9) is met through the many people who received BSW degrees. We are told in Jacob 2:18, ï¿½And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to do good- to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and afflicted.ï¿½ That is what social work is all about. I view psychology and sociology as academic pursuits, while social work strives to take that knowledge and use it to help others. I see it as a way to do Godï¿½s work on earth, to put charity for all men into action. BYU is the very place social work needs to be taught.

Ha | 6:51 a.m. Jan. 21, 2008

The only university I know of that has a home economics degree. Haa.

GoodGuyGary | 7:39 a.m. Jan. 21, 2008

How come BYU don't eliminate the Accounting program? Or Law program, or Nursing program, but BSW? Go figure people.

BT | 7:56 a.m. Jan. 21, 2008

Welcome to real life, social work students. My major was canceled while I was on my mission, and no provisions were made to at least allow me to finish the program. I had to start over in a new one, all the while having the administration threatening to hike my tuition because it took me more than four years to graduate as a result.

As to the idea that you can land a decent job with a bachelor's, I suppose that may be true sometimes. I do not doubt there is a growing need for qualified candidates. But after years of discussions with a close friend who is a social worker with decades of experience and only a bachelor's degree, I can also say your upward mobility on the pay scale and career options within the field are severely limited without a masters. Frankly, I think BYU is doing you all a favor by forcing you to diversify your education a bit.

So what?? | 8:00 a.m. Jan. 21, 2008

Jeez. No wonder some people have such a negative perception of BYU and the church. You guys sound like the biggest whiners I've ever heard of. So your life plan didn't work out oat BYU. Since when have they been obligated to make absolutely every one happy? It's a decision that's already been made. Live with it people. It sounds live UVSC is more than willing to help take up the slack. Or is it something deeper.. you just want the prestige of having BYU on your diploma. Go to learn, not to get a name on your diploma. It's like your foundations have been shaken, and every one of you has lost your faith because something of so inconsequential. The church must not be true because it allowed BYU to get rid of the social work program!! Sheesh, give me a break.....

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Volunteers Michael King, center, and Christina Mangum help director Joy O'Banion, left, director of the Family Support and Treatment Center of Orem, box up a donation of stuffed animals.