Reader comments
LDS Church joins 'alco-pop' battle

So much for the LDS Church being politically neutral. Why does the church and the state insist on dictating morality?
For a state that has a large travel industry, making the liquor laws even more restrictive would seem to be economic suicide. We're already the laughing stock of the country with our current idotic, arcane assortment of liquor laws.

Why do we even need state liquor stores? That should not be the role of government, to sell liquor... or anything. Other than keeping slightly different store hours than grocery stores, what's the difference?... except that I can't buy food and wine at the same stop. It's a nuisance.

Attention Mormons: This is precisely why so many of us dislike your church with a passion. This is a gross violation of church-state separation. Stop converting your weird moral beliefs into laws that affect me. This is fascism. Moderator, your readers need to hear these harsh words, so please don't pull your usual censorship stunt.

"Since when does the church and the state insist on dictating morality?" Are you kidding? Isn't that what most churches do, line out a set of beliefs and morals and tell you that that's how you should live? The state does the same thing.....don't kill, don't steal, don't get drunk and drive, no child porn. Of course the church has spoken out against 'alco-pop', we believe people shouldn't drink and it would be a pitiful display if the the church and it's members didn't actively stand up for our beliefs. Why is it that it's always the church that people get irate with when they give a statement on a social issue but no one was railing against MADD (which was also mentioned in the article) for pushing and dictating their "morality".

Yes, Richard. My comment was deleted within MINUTES after leaving it. Mormons need to hear how their church leadership is still perpetuating the primal War in Heaven by trying to legislate their values. A forum moderator who deletes contrasting viewpoints is doing the exact same thing. Joseph Smith said to teach correct principles and let the people govern themselves. These days it has become 'teach correct principles and then legislate them' so that people are forced to obey. Again, who originally came up with that idea???

Well, it is better Richard if the moderators let the rest of us see your rant. These are such silly, childish and supercilious things to say!

To all of you who want to take it as a personal slap for the Lord's Church: This is not a politcal issue. It is about protecting youth, even yours. It is about an entity that is willing to stand up and say when something is wrong. The Church does NOT endorse candidates or parties, however it will stand up for what is right.

Go ahead and fill your heart with hate and keep it there. However, it would be much better for you if you humbled yourself and wondered once in awhile if you are wrong...

Alcohol causes the death of over 16,000 per year. It is a cause of broken families and broken hearts. It is the cause of health problems such as heart and liver disease. And you guys blame a church for not wanting more deaths and misery. Give me a break! All people who want a better society should stand up against the sale of this beverage in local stores. All people who don't want their children to be killed because they imbibed such a beverage and drove should be supporting such a church. This has more to do with common sense, but then again, most who drink and drive don't show much common sense anyway. There ought to be a registry for people who have more than one DUI on their record so we can see who is irresponsible.

Minors should have NO access to alcohol no matter the alcohol content. It has been proven that it destroys precious brain cells. It is easier for them to get addicted. That ruins their lives, their families lives and their future. Alcohol affects so many lives. Even one drink before driving can cause accidents that result in death and injuries. I could care less if Utah is the laughing stock of the country because they don't sell alcohol in stores. Even as a child in California (not a Mormon then) it really bothered me that alcohol was sold in stores because I saw what it did to people. These were good normal people. One of my friends brought me home after school and her Mom was drunk. Do you know how embarrased she was? Another woman was throwing up on her kitchen table because alcohol was more important than food. Others got attacked and raped because they had drank. So luckily as a child I saw how alcohol affects people. So it is a little inconvenient for you. I go to seperate stores for many things. I am proud of what sets us apart not embarrased.

I agree that minors should no have access to alcohol. There are already laws in place that cover that. I also agree that alcohol is responsible for many deaths. So are cars, guns, tobacco, motorcycles and cancer. This issue is about non-drinkers using their majority status in this state to force their morals on everyone, even those who do not share their beliefs. This is wrong. While most Utahns believe drinking is immoral, there are those who do not. Like it or not, non-drinkers are not the only inhabitants of this state, and those who believe differently are entitled to equal consideration. All this proposed legislation will do is make it more inconvenient for those of legal age to purchase alcohol. It does nothing to keep it out of the hands of minors. If you're over 21 and don't drink, then keep your nose where it belongs, it doesn't affect you anyway.

Distilled spirits of any kind should be sold in separate liquor stores, period. How is this controlling your life? Just go to the right store and buy it but pull it out of the corner 7-11. I have lived in California and seen first hand the destruction all the available alcohol on hand has done to ruin lives. Adults who buy and then give or sell liquor to minors should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. If a minor kills someone while intoxicated then the adult who supplied the alcohol should spend time in prison. People in Utah are not insolated from the world. We see and know what is going on and many of us have lived outside the State. I for one am proud of a church and other organizations that take a stand regardless of the popularity. So what if it seems odd to other people. Plenty of people want to live here for the very reasons that our peculiar laws make this a better place to live.

I won't go so far as to criticize the leaders of the LDS Church, because I don't know their reasoning behind joining the movement. I will point out that they did not start the movement, but merely signed on to it, so this is not a Mormon church thing.

Having said that, I would caution members of any church to be careful what you legislate. Joseph Smith did say to teach correct principles and let people govern themselves. I don't think he meant to teach correct principles to the members of the LDS church, and then have them codify each one of them into law. When we are threatened with state action if we don't obey the commandments, I don't know that righteousness is possible. According to Mormon doctrine, God allows each one of us to choose, and the natural consequences follow from our sinful decisions. Sounds like a good model from a good source.

Now, I am not fully convinced that making those looking for alco-pop go to a state liquor store, rather than to a convenience store, necessarily falls into the category of legislating morality, but it comes pretty close.

T.Roberts and Richard G.
Did you actually READ the article. Did you just skip the part in the article where it stated that the LDS Church did not initiate comment, but responded after repeated inquiries from the media? Nevermind the issue, this is just another opportunity for you to take potshots at something you obviously do not understand. As for the issue, I am LDS and believe that the alco-pops SHOULD be sold in grocery stores. It is basically beer. It has 3.2% alcohol. It is compliant with the state law. You have to be 21 to purchase the products, so the argument that you are enticing children is just plain ignorant. If kids want to drink, they will find a way, fruity flavor or not. As for Utah having "arcane assortment of liquor laws", last time I checked, there are no DRY COUNTIES in Utah, as there are in the South! Grow up!

I agree with Rob and JWK. Alcohol should be banned. State stores are a disgrace and promote alcohol. Everyone I know who drinks is a drunk and unfit to be a parent. Personally I think the Church should speak out more on the role of government in our lives.

Hey D-News, why don't you dignify this debate a bit by declining to use the loaded non-word "alco-pops." You know it's not a real word because even you put it in quotes! As much press as this issue is going to get, I hope you'll make it your practice to use a neutral term like flavored malt beverages, or a non-judgmental acronym like FMB.

This whole debate is so ridiculous to me, and the church's intrusion so blatant, that I can only come to the conclusion that this is all political theater designed to (wait for it . . .) help Mitt Romney! Here's my theory: the church arranges to introduce this bill, the moralist stooges at MADD jump on board, and Utah drinkers rightfully explode when the church publicly endorses the bill. Here's the twist--the church will work behind the scenes to ensure the bill is very publicly defeated, with some LDS legislators "bucking" the church. Maybe (gasp!) Mitt himself comes out in opposition to the bill. Bingo!--Nothing changes, but Mitt gets to crow about how the church doesn't really control his or its other members' political decisions!

You heard it here first . . .

I am a TRUE believer in free agency. This sort of sensorship is unconstitional and flat out wrong on many different levels. When did I become the enemy. I am a responsible social drinker that always has a DD. What gives the LDS church or anyother group the right to dictate government laws. I would be upset if this were any organization. Where are my rights? This is not about children getting alcohol, we allready have laws in place to restrict that and punish those who dont uphold those laws, this is about control. If kids want to get alcohol, they will find a way. Where are the rights for the other side of the spectrum? This country was founded on freedoms, not sensorship. The arguement that alcohol kills people is a wash, when the leading killer in our country is heart disease caused by obesity, not alcohol. Should we stop selling M&Ms in stores? Should we limit Ice Cream only to Cold Stone? Two words, grow up! If this is about the social issues, educate your children and help them to make good decisions. Remember the 1st fundamental right given to us is freedom and free agency.

Hey Fredd nice comments. It is close minded thinking like yours that gives the whole State a horrible reputation. How can you say that "all people you know who drink are drunks & unfit to be parents"??? That is one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever heard!!!

I would love to know if you have kids yourself and if so if they grew up normal. I can't imagine they are very socially adjusted with thinking like you have. Get a clue!!!!!!!

Show me where the Constitution states separation fo Church and State? The Establishment Clause is highly misunderstood. The First Amdendment states that CONGRESS SHALL NOT ESTABLISH A CHURCH- in otherwords, government cannot be operated by a Church as in the case of England when the Church of Englad ran the government. This isn't the case with the LDS Church? Why?

Because in our form of government (republic, not a democracy) the rule of the majority is often what creates rules. Since Utah has a higher proportion of LDS people, thus, many of our laws will be aligned with LDS belief. You will find that in any community with a predominant religion. Go south and see what the Baptists do. Or go to a city where the Jews are and have more of a Jewish influence.

Last, I think it's ironic that people blame Utah for the "strict" liquor laws. Have you research other states that have prohibition laws? Both Oreogn and Washington have strict rules, and these are the most liberal states in the West. Pennsylvania has the most strict liquor laws, worse than Utah.

Do a little research to educate yourself before blowing hot air.

For all those in favor or moving these drinks to the liquor store, please answer me this: How will this stop underage drinking? Kids who want to drink will find ways, they always have, they always will. If there is an excess of kids drinking these "alco-pops" (btw --stupid name!!) then there should be a crack down on the STORES that sell them to kids or the adults that give them to the kids.

And to those of you who say, what's the big deal going to the Lqr store to get these... 1) there are not that many Lqr stores, so we have to go out of our way, 2) the hours of the Lqr store are not always convenient, several of them close at 7 p.m --- what would you do if your 7-11 closed at 7p and you couldnt get your 97 oz diet coke? These are LEGAL drinks, the are MALT beverages not distilled spirits and they should be conveniently available to ADULTS who chose to purchase them.

Richard G.:
"This is fascism. "

What? It is fascist that you can't buy malt liquors in a grocery store, but at a state liquor store? People throw that word fascist around to totally dilute it to no meaning whatsoever. I am sure the people that really live in a fascist state would uncomfortably chuckle at your "oppression". The "weird moral belief" of not drinking liquor is not just a Mormon phenomenon...but I am sure you don't care about that.

The funny thing about this outburst from irate people is that Utah's liquor laws are NOT the most restrictive in the nation. There are dry counties all over the South and the Midwest. Did the LDS Church legislate in those places? No. It was actually Protestant church groups that backed such rules, not Mormons (who were thin on the ground when those rules were put in place).
Grow up people.