Deseret News | Reader comments: LDS wards — grooming world 150 at a time

Reader comments
Orson Scott Card: LDS wards — grooming world 150 at a time

David in CA | 9:45 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Thanks for the great insights and thoughts.

Looking forward to more up lifting and thought
provoking stories and thoughts.

Lord Bless

Larry Beck | 9:50 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

I for one am glad to see Brother Card writing for the new Mormon Times section!

Eugene England commented that one of the distinguishing features of the Mormon Church is that our congregations aren't composed of those who choose to worhsip together, they are put together geographcially, and so we end up worshipping with people that we might not choose to worship, if we had a choice. And what this does is level the playing field. Rich worship with poor, singles with families, etc. And it gives a very distinctive flavor to each ward. Another unintended benefit of belonging to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Yes! | 10:32 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

I, too, am very glad to see Brother Card writing for the Mormon Times; I always enjoy his insights, and this column was magnificent. I look forward to more excellent commentary and thoughts from him in the future!

Comments continue below

PETE | 11:03 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

I enjoyed reading your article. I have been in a stake calling - and have wondered why I have felt less comfortable - and now that you mention it, I do believe that it has a lot to do with the size of the group....

<> | 11:26 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

It is a real pleasure to be able to have the writing of OSC here. He speaks candidly, sincerely and its actually interesting. Many of his books occupy the favorite spots of my bookshelf. I hope it continues, I know I will be checking in just to see if he has posted a new article. And, thanks to him, I will be thinking of my ward family a little differently this Sunday. Thanks!

Fabiano from North Carolina | 11:45 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Until lately, I had only read OSC's science fiction (which I highly admire) and for some odd reason hadn't thought of branching out from that. I wish I hadn't waited so long. I have been very pleased to read the articles he has produced lately. I appreciate his insight, his humor, and his down to earth nature. I think he will be an excellent addition as a regular here.

This makes me curious if someone has ever actually done systemic studies of the dynamics of various sizes of wards? I don't know if permission would be granted to do so, but it would be a very interesting thing see.

Keep it coming, OSC. :)

IMHP | 1:06 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

A thoughtful piece. Thank you. The Mormon ward experience certainly gives us a way to know each other and find an identity outside the labels of the world.

However, I would add a caution to the sentence,ï¿½ our real knowledge about them (our ward members) consists of how well and faithfully they do their callings, what they say and do in meetings, how often you run into them setting up or cleaning up after meetings." My caution would be that we remain mindful of not judging "how well and faithfully" a person is in meeting their calling. That neither is the ward's role nor for individuals other than those commissioned to monitor that type of thing.

One who accepts a calling should not approach that assignment thinking that others are judging them; otherwise, they will increasingly aim to gain the accolades, validation, and praise of individuals. That is an attribute of the world which Card effectively questions but then nearly reinforces with the statement above.

nice idea | 2:33 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

It's a nice idea; a nice thought, but I've been in plenty of wards where members were labeled. Either by their career and financial status, or "how high" their calling is. Having said that, I still like attending church because I do not care what other people think.

Anonymous | 4:07 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

If you really think about it, we do label people by the way they fulfill their calling and it is helpful to do it. You tend to gravitate to those who will do what they say will, you count on those who will actually show up when they say they will. Remember, Nephi's "I will go and do," and "The Lord has commanded, and I must obey" seem to be a bit of a stretch for some. They seem to think that " I will make an excuse" and "the Lord has commanded and I might think about doing it if it is convenient" are acceptable. You learn not to count on those folks in the ward.

SVUGrad | 8:46 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Looking forward to your column Uncle Orson!

Skeptic | 11:07 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

One of the most interesting things I have read in the DNews in a long, long time.

GEORGE H.HILL III | 6:05 a.m. Jan. 11, 2008

I first was exposed to Orson directly,when visiting a Greensboro ward back in the late 80's.He taught the PH lesson.He was great,of course.He was wearing running shoes with his suit,so I knew we weren't dealing with a conventional mind.My twins went to SOUTHERN VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY in the beautiful,celestial-like Shenandoah Valley,in the paradisical state of Virginia.One,I think just took one class from Bro.Card,the other,several,became a disciple.He was truly taken by this brilliant talent.That he would take time out,travel great distance from his N.C. home,to try to inspire young minds-well,that impressed me.His humour needs more exposure.As my sons enjoyed their last year at SVU,between deployments to Iraq,the influence of Bro.Card was a highlight.the one twin has written a LOT of books,but just gets rejection letters.He won't give up.As we hear from him from the war front,he often talks about his writing and the influence of OSC.I thank him for his infuence on the college kids.

Morgan | 7:52 a.m. Jan. 11, 2008

DNews, thank you for adding such a gifted writer to your staff. This is one of the best columns that I have read in a long time and I am looking forward to the new weekly feature.

SFC RET DENNIS | 8:04 a.m. Jan. 11, 2008

This was the best piece iv read in any paper in a long time. As for when a word splits, you got it right. I was once in a ward that split, it was a great time and a sad and confusing time. Everything changed, we new some and others we did not, around the same time the word boundary had changed. We now had 4 wards in a very small chapel.

Love it, but... | 8:52 a.m. Jan. 11, 2008

I love Uncle Orson's writing, but I'd caution that he is not stating established facts. He's opening a conversation about who wards, social groups, and human brains MIGHT work. Because I'm no expert in any of these (except as a participant/observer, I suppose) I can't say if OSC is right or wrong. I'd like to see some who ARE experts join the conversation and validate or challenge these ideas. They seem reasonable, but Uncle Orson's credentials as a fiction writer don't automatically transfer to other realms of knowledge.

Just my two cents.

Andrew H. | 9:28 a.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Great article!
For a scholarly sociological take, see Mormon Lives: A Year in the Elkton Ward by Susan Buhler Taber (University of Illinois Press), a professor at the University of Deleware. It is a cultural study of what it was like to be a Mormon living in the Elkton-Newark area of Deleware in 1985 (when Richard Bushman's family lived there).

From a blurb: "In interviews with more than 100 members of the Elkton Ward Taber presents varying views on church practices, the role of women, missionary work and other issues within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In the interviews, members describe the experiences and beliefs that have shaped their lives. The picture is not perfectly rosy-women debate the merits of working outside the home; wives complain about the amount of time their husbands devote to the church; men worry about their responsibility to tithe 10
percent of their income. Yet, their day to day concerns don't seem much different from those of other faiths."

interesting indeed | 10:27 a.m. Jan. 11, 2008

When we left the ward we got active in several years ago, our then Dear Bishop gsve us some great advice. "In your next ward, remember that people are usually shy, so don't wait for them to talk to you, go up and shake their hand and tell them your name and where you are from, ask theirs, and be outgoing and friendly." It really works, and we have loved all six wards and the fine people we have rubbed shoulders with in all those wards over the last 42 years. We have always felt that we lived in "The best Ward in the Church!" We found that you can go anywhere in the world and find a ward or branch where you feel 'at home'.

Raymond Takashi Swenson | 10:39 a.m. Jan. 11, 2008

OSC has a remarkably perceptive and intelligent mind. He has written some of the most engaging military science fiction even though he never served in the armed forces. He has never been a politician, or diplomat, but has a remarkable grasp of public policy issues. He has written with great insight into the LDS experience in his fiction (Lost Boys, Folk of the Fringe) as well as personal essays.

His essay about the optimal size for an LDS ward echoes what my high priests group heard from our most peripatetic member, an LDS General Authority who drops in when he is not traveling on assignment. He told us that the number of active members in a ward or branch is strongly correlated with those who have specific callings, no matter how many other members live within the ward boundaries. That is why wards are divided when they get too large: to ensure that everyone knows that he or she is needed by someone else in the ward.

As Eugene England said, the Church is as true as the Gospel because, like our families, it is an environment where we are given the opportunity to actually practice living the gospel.

From Buffalo | 10:47 a.m. Jan. 11, 2008

I understand OSC view point about the large Utah wards. I grew up in Utah. Now I live in Buffalo. In the beginning we were in a small ward, where every person was NEEDED. Now the ward we are in has exploded, and it feels like Utah all over again. Many of us (though dreading the thought of being parted from friends) are anxiously awaiting the splitting of the ward, whenever that will be.

Eric Whitwood | 1:28 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Very insightful.
The neighborhood where you live is important. I find that they are part of my life. I had to make the effort to bring that to pass. Living in Utah as was stated the neighborhood is full of your ward members.
It does make a difference to have neighbors that have your same standards. I grew up in Utah and found that very enjoyable. Now the travel time to visit other members is up to 25 minutes. Nevertheless, I have great neighbors and would not trade them in. Well almost all ot them.

Bill Davis | 2:28 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

That same study had me thinking about groups of 150. I live in Utah County so I didn't think about my ward. But my mission consisted of about 140-160 missionaries. Sounds about right.

inTexas | 10:46 a.m. Jan. 12, 2008

my ward in texas has AVERAGE attendance of 350. No joke... smallest I've been in here (in 14 years in same town - moved from 2 to 5 wards...) averaged about 220...

Fellow Texan | 5:27 p.m. Jan. 14, 2008

inTexas,

You must be in my Stake. Lewisville?

grant | 9:32 a.m. Jan. 15, 2008

I agree that each ward has its own personality. Like people we don't always like them. We are drawn to people of our own ilk, if we serve we tend to like those who serve. And the opposite also applies. It feels good to be involved in an active particapating ward. Thanks for the article.

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