Deseret News | Better duck — if you're a Mormon

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Doug Robinson: Better duck — if you're a Mormon

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Betsy | 8:48 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Thank you for finally saying it! Rock on, Doug Robinson! Too bad this article isn't in a more national venue. And, Ms. "Another thought", I think you missed the point.

decoding "Punchline" 7:12 | 9:02 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

We understand the Woman, Black, Mormon, Baptist, but who is the Senior Citizen...

Do you mean McCain?

SLC | 9:10 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

....Lies, lies, lies and more lies, that is what religion is all about; and mormons are the worst. Let the auditors, historians, inspectors into the church records and see how fast the house of cards fall.

Comments continue below

tangent | 9:12 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

What a tangent you are all on... think about it-- what if there was an article in USA Today that started out quoting a Harvard Law professor saying that Obama would be the best candidate if he wasnt muslim? THat is all this article is saying. In this case boys and girls-- there truly is a set of PC rules for those of the accepted faith and those who are not. As a Mormon, I have voted since the Jimmy Carter election without once ever worrying about the religion of the President--sounds pretty tolerant to me. Not much has changed since the 1840's has it? End of discussion.

they don't read their bible | 9:15 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Mormons appear to NOT know about Mormonism. Those on this blog say Mormons don't criticize or condemn other churches, yet in the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi 14) Joseph Smith said that God said that Nephi said something about other religions being "an abomination" again and again and again and again.
They obviously don't even read their own bible.

Lane | 9:26 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

What an encouraging article. I have never read anything so depressing as this article from Doug Robinson. Maybe he should crawl back into his bed with his blankey and coil up into a little ball.

All candidates for any office are fodder for the masses and media. The article suggests that we should feel sorry for Mitt Romney and his Mormanism. Not gonna happen here.

I have met some very good Mormans in my life. Probably more good than bad. I would even vote for one if I could get a definitive idea of what they belive in. Unfortunately, Mitt Romney cannot make that statement.

In our society, we know from past history that very few men have been able to run the country "for the people, and by the people". From past experience, few Morman leaders in the private sector have been able to do any better. Most take care of their Morman buddies and filter in Morman doctrine like it was a football game.

Doug, maybe you need to get out a little more.

Star | 9:26 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Religion is good until the questionable spirited think they need to rule the nest and run everyones life. LIVE AND LET LIVE. No one likes someones nose always in their personal business all the time. I don't mind having a black president if it happens. He looks like a nice person to me. Changes are always for the better. Nonetheless Obama is part white if it makes any difference to you bigots and races.

John | 9:28 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

What a great article!

Living in Pennsylvania, i'm not a Utah Mormon. I see the attitudes mentioned in the article all the time - I've even seen people lose jobs over their lds beliefs (by so-called Christian mennonite employers). But I guess that's okay and legal.

Go ahead and kick us around. But the hypocrasy baffles me.

Jack Kennedy | 9:36 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

President Kennedy visited Salt Lake City less than two months before his death, and made a foreign policy speech in the Tabernacle on Temple Square.
His wisdom in that speech was overshadowed by the coverage of his assassination.

The 1 minute, 15 second summary is on YouTube under "JFK on Mormons". And the text/stream in on archive.org.

To: Tangent | 9:40 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Many things have changed since 1840. Except the persecution for Mormons...and that will never change or end.

Re: re: Baffled | 9:42 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

(Mormon, used sarcasm, name-calling, etc. Interesting. Do unto others...) "Do I detect sarcasm and judging here? Maybe Mormons are just like everyone else?"
==========
There was no sarcasm or judgement in Baffled's posting. It was speaking truth and calling out contradictions. If you felt conviction, that wasn't from Baffled.

anon. | 9:49 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

If by some weird chance Mitt does win {HE WON'T},

he may be the who needs to duck.

Passive Agressive article | 9:50 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Sounds like you get a lot more cheap shots in than you are defending. Obama sounds nothing like McVeigh. And Hilary is "onery" sounds like the guy who stood up at her speech demanding she "iron his shirt."
Don't blame Romney's loss on Mormonism. The church doesn't deserve it.

Mitt's religion | 9:52 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

People have said that Mitt avoid talking about his religion. That's not true, of course (and his supporters know it, that's why they have to lie). He did everything he could to avoid talking about the specifics of Mormonism, but he sure talked up the fact that he was religious. If I tell someone that I'm religious, but I don't want to talk about it, what's the point?

He used religion as a political tool, and it backfired on him. Now he and his supporters are being dishonest about it, and claiming "persecution."

Anonymous | 9:58 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

I find it very interesting that regardless of the fact that Romney is not constantly talking about his religion and how God factors into it, he is getting a ton of flak about what he believes. On the other hand, Huckaby can wear his Baptist agenda on his sleeve and no one bats an eye. So, did the separation of church and state just get taken out of our founding documents? All of the nominees believe in something; they all have different ideas about God, religion, etc. Why is it that Mormonism and maybe Muslim are the only ones we hear about? And they say this election isn't about religion?

I for one won't be voting based on religion, regardless of being a Mormon. I will actually vote based on who would do the most for our country. I wish others would try that.

Debbie | 10:01 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Doug's talent in stating so succinctly what so many of us have witnessed for years is truly impressive.

I have felt for some time that the only legitimate and acceptable discrimination these days is against the obese and those of the LDS faith.

If anyone has trouble believing the persecution stories from early Mormon history, the current experiences we see now should give credence that hatred of Mormons is alive and well.

It is a sad day in America.

funny man | 10:06 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

When it comes to politics beliefs shouldn't play into the decision and church and state be seperated. However, when it comes to Mormons you either believe Joseph Smith was a prophet or a con-man. There is no middle ground and therefore Christians will always view Mormons as a cult. Having said that, again that should not influence your presidential choice.

Unapologetic | 10:12 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

At some point, we--as a people--are going to have to just be comfortable with who we are. Instead of being the unpopular kid in class who desperately wants to be liked, we are better off living our faith. In some ways, I am actually concerned about the day Mormons are "accepted." Our doctrine is not "easy" and it shouldn't be.

Offended | 10:14 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Not to get all goofy, but it is ironically a sign of the times. I don't understand why people not of the "Mormon Faith" focus so much on the percieved faults of Joseph Smith and steam roll ahead with so much anger and spite.

I truly believe that "mormons" do worship the true God as is demonstrated by the lives they lead and their refusal to fight back to the terrible attacks other find joy in inflicting. I have yet to hear Mit Romney attack anybody personally.

Great article.

Steve | 10:14 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

I have very little pity for those Mormons that feel persecuted.

Let's face it, a good portion of Mormons vote Republican. If people support a party of intolerance, then they shouldn't be surprised if they eventually get discriminated against by people in their own party.

continued amazement | 10:19 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Moshe Akiva, what do you think of the mormons "baptizing" Shoah victims? What do you think of the Mormons "baptizing" Adolg Hitler in the mormon religion? Yes, both happened....until a stop was put to it by the church...now individuals may "baptize" those Jewish without the church getting the blame.

This post likely won't be on long since Deseret News doesn't allow for fact that is troubling to the so called church.

Ralph Day | 10:24 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Half right is half wrong. Yes, Mitt is being attack, so are other candidates--perhaps mot as maliciously--WHOA, you just did it by mentioning Obama's religion, although I think your are right on. The Trinity Church and therefore Obama and the Baptist church and therefore Huckabee are the most dangerous candidates in either pol lineup, in my opinion. THERE, I've been politically incorrect and do so unashamedly. There are few, if any denominations that so persistently and vehemently attack LDS, there are articles released by Trinity attacking LDS. As for the "Street Preachers," the solution: Conference goers simply kneel in their presence and fervently pray for them--like Christ taught even while on the Cross. It might be a good idea for we LDS to move past the "being persecuted" mentally and more fully proclaim the validity of our faith.

Mik | 10:25 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

The good Christians in New York sent the saints packing to Ohio. The good Christians in Ohio sent the saints packing to Missouri. The good Christians in Missouri sent the saints packing to Illinois, and the good Christians in Illinois sent the saints packing to Utah.
What a blessing to the saints when they couldn't find any good Christians in Utah.

Good Job Doug

to John | 10:26 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

You claim you have seen people lose their jobs over their mormon religion. I call you a liar since they are protected under the law...unless they were prostelizing on company time and against the wishes of other employees.

ID Jazz | 10:29 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

The people who have a problem with this article are the ones who do not have there beliefs being scrutinized and ridiculed. The people who appreciated this article are the ones that do. He is only pointing out reversed excepted social exceptance.

they don't read their bible #2 | 10:32 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Oh come on! Thats not a great argument at all. Look at the Bible and you will find that Jesus Christ himself made remarks that were very condemning and critical of atheists, Sadducee's, Pharisee's, etc. Jesus made it very clear that it is His way and no other way. People hated what Jesus had to say so much that they sought to take away his life.

If a Church is really Christ's church they will need to claim that their way is the only way. The scriptures tell us that fact. Offensive isn't it that only one way can be correct? I recall that the apostle Paul taught that there is only "one Lord, one faith, one baptism."

Christopher | 10:34 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Though he has a great point and I too am saddened by how we are viewed, I am comforted to know that we have not formed a coalition to get respect and hear our voice like other groups (need I mention any...Al Sharp...). I am heartened to see our respect and dignity intact as we continue to quietly go about turning the other cheek, following the example of Christ as when he was ridiculed. My testimony is strengthened with each scoff and scorn. (3N 12:12; Acts 5:41)

QUOTE IT | 10:35 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

"YOU CANNOT BE A GOOD MEMBER OF THE CHURCH AND BE A VOTING DEMOCRAT". IF YOU HAVE ANY BEEFS WITH THAT, THEN TAKE IT UP WITH THE ABORTION CLINICS, GO TO EVERY GAY PARADE OR GAY MARRIAGE CEREMONY, TAX THE HELL OUT! YOU ARE OKAY WITH THAT RIGHT? THEN HOW THE HELL CAN YOU BE A GOOD MORMON AND LIVE THE LIE THAT YOU DO? MY RELIGION TELLS ME MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN BUT MY GOVERNMENT PARTY IS OKAY WITH SAME SEX MARRIAGE. WALING, TALKING, BREATHING HIPPOCRATES!

Re: LDS Hoosier | 10:42 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Thank you for your comment. The way we respond to untruth will preach powerful sermons to those in a mind to listen.

Former Idahoan | 10:44 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Idahoan, how is the Mormon religion being shoved down your throat? You says that, but I have not seen it at all? In what way are they clannish? If they invited you to their meeting would it be shoving and if they didn't it would be clannish? How can they win?

They are insistant? What does that mean? Insistant about what....that they are blessed with the fullness of the gospel and want to share it because they love you and want you to have it too? We think other religions have many great truths and that they are equally loved by their maker. We also believe that we are so fortunate to have been given all that God requires us to do to have a happy life in the next one. We fall short many times and are not in any way perfect yet, but we try to be if we are living our religion. It's not that we are hypocrits, but that we are human and do make mistakes.

We are not as intolerant as you may think. What have you done to include us? Are you clannish? Are you intolerant? It works both ways.

Klimber510 | 10:44 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

It is evident from the comments that most of us can't make an impartial comment based on the facts. Take the word "Mormon" out of the article and replace it with any other word you like...women, gays, blacks, muslims, catholics, obese people, short people, uneducated people, white minority males, utahns, disabled people, uneducated people...and what is your response. If what Robinson says is happening is true, whether to Mormons or another group, it shouldn't be happening and I believe decent Americans with an unjaundiced eye will agree.

The Truth | 10:54 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

WE HAVE THE TRUTH. SATAN DOESN'T CARE ABOUT SLAMMING OTHER RELIGIONS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T HURT HIM LIKE THE TRUE CHURCH CAN. TAKE IT AS ANOTHER TESTAMENT TO OUR TRUE RELIGION. WE ARE BATTLING MORE THAN JUST THE DEMOCRATS.

LDS Mom for Ron Paul | 11:08 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Every candidate is being "attacked" in one way or another. That's politics. The real problem with Romney for president is that he does not have a "squeaky clean" record and would be a bad reflection on The Church. I don't think he understands the seriousness of The Family: A Proclamation to the World. His actions in Mass. as governor are contrary to these principles. We also need someone who has had a passion and voting record for upholding the Constitution for decades. ï¿½Next to being one in worshiping God, there is nothing in this world upon which this Church should be more united than in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States!ï¿½ (President David O. McKay, 1956, Instructor Magazine 91:34) Ron Paul may not be a member of the Church, but he is trustworthy, his honesty can be checked by his voting record. He openly states exactly how he feels on all the issues at RonPaul2008.com I can only hope Americans will research their candidates and not vote in blind faith.

bannorhill | 11:08 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

How can Mormons expect Gentiles to honestly examine Mormonism when the LDS Church (and the Deseret News) cuts off any historically discussion of past "non faith building incidences". As a Christian I study David's sin with Bathsheba. Any discussion of Joseph Smith and his adultery with girls is denied and shouted down by the LDS Church. I study Saul's (Paul) involvement in the murder of Stephen and David's involvement with Uriah's murder. If I write here about Brigham Young's invovement with and after Mountain Meadows all discussion ends and the posting is deleted.

If Mormons want to be treated honestly by outsiders they first must honestly look at themselves and their history then maybe they will understand why people do not take them seriously.

Clifton | 11:09 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Lt James's comments below are so typical. Lt James, that is, if you are indeed a Miitary man, ought to know the Military draft in this Country hasn't been used since 1973. But if you are Military, so how did you get in, and where did you recieve your commission? Were you drafted or did you volunteer? So the Romneys never served anytime in the Military, so what? Neither did Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Mick Huckabee, and millions of others. So McCain was in the Military! So what and this hardly makes him knowlegeable or hero. Just a trained loud mouth is all. Wise up James!

LT. James | 8:06 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008
How can Mitt be such a great American, I can not find military service at all in his family. It appears with him and his son's he as a member of the elite that dodge the opportunity, vote McCain

poor me routine | 11:20 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Oh no! Not another "the world is out to get us" posting!
ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz!
Why not save this sort of poor me routine for you ward members?

jr | 11:21 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

I remember the missionaries condemning and critizing the other religions when they were converting our family to their Zionist religion. I have witnessed first hand the cruelty of members to innocent children because their parents weren't active or they went through divorce. Shoe on the other foot doesn't feel so good does it. There are good people in all relgions and I do believe in the Gospel but there is no way I can believe in Mormonism as practiced in Utah. The LDS church claims to be the only true church so right there you are slapping every other religion in the face and most be chance are a lot older the mormonism which when you read the true history leaves a lot to question. Believe as you wish but also allow others then maybe the shoes will feel comfortable on both feet. Hypocrisy reigns in ZION

Joel McDonald | 11:21 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Being Mormon isn't the same as being a woman or having used drugs. Mormons belong to a worldwide, financially powerful, very influential, and somewhat secretive, organization which recognizes that its leader is the mouthpiece of God. Having someone who has sworn himself to be obedient to this organization and leader as President of the United States is grounds for concern.

Tammy | 11:32 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Bravo and Amen! I don't know that I remember ever seeing an election where religion is such an issue, and don't try to tell me Mormons aren't being targetted. I don't hear comments all the time about Huckabee's or Obama's religion and how "it's a cult" and "members mindlessly follow their leaders". It's completely hypocritical, comments made by those who don't know much about it. Being politically correct usually means avoiding disparaging comments about a person's religion, but members of the LDS faith are apparently open targets for potshots by those who don't understand.

BTW, saying that all Mormons are bigots just because you've met some who are is like saying all Muslims are terrorists, which would also be a gross inaccuracy. If you want evidence of that, look at President Hinckley, who has given his life in Church service. There isn't a hypocritical bone in his body, just a humble spirit seeking to follow God's will and lead the Church through difficult times.

Dane | 11:39 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Try ripping on Huckabee for being a Baptist/Evangelical and see how that flies.

sq_books | 11:44 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

First, when MR chose to talk on this issue he then made it a national issue. This, however, did not matter because neither this issue nor his campaign has taken off because he represents a wing of the Republican Party that is marginalized these days. Also heï¿½s run a negative campaign lacking in personal charisma. This is why he is having problems, not because heï¿½s a Mormon. Huckbee is catching more grief from the right-wing over being a ï¿½populistï¿½ than MR has over being a Mormon. As far discrimination thereï¿½s plenty to go around and the Mormonï¿½s like the Baptists, Atheists, Blacks, Jews, Whites, etc get their share. Grow up and devote you column and space/ internet band width to meaningful political analysis and stop the Mormon/religious equivalent to ï¿½pulling the race card.ï¿½

Neither have you? | 11:46 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

they don't read their bible | 9:15 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008
"Mormons appear to NOT know about Mormonism. Those on this blog say Mormons don't criticize or condemn other churches, yet in the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi 14) Joseph Smith said that God said that Nephi said something about other religions being "an abomination" again and again and again and again.
They obviously don't even read their own bible."

The LDS bloggers are accurate the church doesn't single out specific religions to attack. The church leaders openly say to treat them with love and friendship. Read-Christ's ancient church sent missionaries to seek out converts. We are Christ's latter-day church so we send out missionaries.

The Great whore in the Bible-
Isa. 21:9 ...Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground.

Revelations 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

(She)Babylon is false religion(s) because of idolatry/false worship, is a whore(fornications), because of non-covenant(Bridegroom-Jesus/Bride-New Jerusalem-Chruch),wrath because she kills the saints(Prophet/Hyrum/early and Navoo saints, etc).

Don | 11:48 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Not to be a doomsayer, but apparently the statement ï¿½canï¿½t we all just get alongï¿½ will never come to fruition.

Wear the shoe if it fits | 11:49 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

It's not just Mormons who are criticized. But the Mormons do their fair share as anyone else. So quit whining and feeling sorry for yourselves. I think you people do your fair share of gossiping and belittling others. I know, I am friends with a great many LDS.

Deuce | 11:58 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Um... Honestly, This article started off pretty nice, but there was an add in the very middle of the page that I couldnt get rid off.... Nice job Deseret Morning News, this is the first and last time I visit this site.

AZMormon | 12:03 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Great article. Amen to everything that was printed. I am not about playing the victim role, and essentially I could care less about what people think about my religion if they hate it that much, but the hypocrisy and double standard that Robinson brings to light is true. I cannot stand having teenage kids from the Campus Crusade for Christ or the local Baptist church define what my religion is. I cannot believe the Radiant Church (evangelical Christian)here in Surprise AZ has a flier they send out in the neighborhood advertising their Sunday sermon "What the Mormons Believe". In all my years of going to Gospel Doctrine class or Elder's Quorum I have never EVER experienced a teacher "exposing" the Baptists, Methodists, Catholics etc. I am sick of the "Christians" down the street running out to meet the missionaries coming to my house for dinner and handing them anti-Mormon pamphlets. I have grown weary of protesters at Temple Square when my family comes in town for Conference. Same with the "Christians" congregating on the street at the Mesa Temple during Christmas or Easter shouting at everyone. I begin to wonder which group of Christians is really the cult.

Vegas Ed | 12:12 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008

Same comments every time from both sides. Just change the subject and the dateline, and the anti's come out. Then the LDS fight back. Same old same old. It never changes in these comments.

SoccerMom | 12:14 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008

You make a valid point. Problem is, you leave yourself open to criticism when you send out missionaries to people's homes, unannounced and uninvited, and proceed to tell them that the LDS Church is "the only true church," women can't lead the church, and homosexuals are sinners just because they're homosexuals.

Iowa Mormon | 12:14 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008

I've enjoyed the article and discussion. I've been out of Utah for more than 15 years now and have seen the gamut of treatments discussed. In both Colorado and Iowa, my family has seen great regard and respect for our religion. We also lived in Mississippi and saw a much different side from some, but most were great to us.

The most frustrating aspect for me through this past week and the Iowa Caucus was the whisper campaign that, in my opinion, determined the result. Romney's competition organized a number of pastor/preacher events to 'spread the word,' and that they did. Through Huckabee's veiled comments he pointed out that it would not be Christian to vote for a Mormon. I have some great friends who are Evangelical and voted for Romney, but I believe many simply voted for Huckabee because he was a 'Christian leader' and not a Mormon. A congressman told a group last week that if Romney were not a Mormon, based on his credentials, he would be a shoe-in for the nomination. Most of the recent criticism of the church has been can be traced to a single source, a 'baptist preacher' from Arkansa.

setting themselves apart | 12:15 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008

This is what happens when an organization devotes all its time setting itself apart then telling everyone else they are wrong.
And the fools STILL don't see the truck bearing down on them.

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