Deseret News | Better duck — if you're a Mormon

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Doug Robinson: Better duck — if you're a Mormon

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Victor--Hard to believe? | 4:17 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

You know something? I see nothing of morale value being posted on here, only a bunch of worthless words strung right and left. Not just nonMormons but Mormons as well. You guys all need a strong dose of elements of morale philosophy to get your whacko heads on straight!

RE: No takers | 4:18 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

So . . . I'll comment since you are so insistant. There will be NO mass migration to Missouri. The faithfull will hold fast in the many stakes of the church all over the globe, just as they do now. The headquarters of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will re-locate in Missouri. Many faithful members will receive callings similar to the mission service callings issued to couples today, to go to Missouri to report and assist. So pard, unless you get an official letter in the mail from somewhere in downtown SLC with your name on it asking you to sell your double wide, grab your 72 hour kit and do a MapQuest Daviess County . . . . just let it go.

Rhino Sparky | 4:20 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

No a democrate Mormon would be on the media's side. They would join up in arms to defend a democrate it is just that he is on the wrong side of the isle.
Harry Reid is the prime example of this.

Comments continue below

To: Mormon for Obama | 4:23 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Congratulations on your support for Obama. I am also impressed with the man as thinker and find his ideas interesting.

I am surprised, however, that you think the bigoted comments about Mormons would stop if they would just change their behavior. It is a naive attitude that goes along with blame the victims first. It is the "What did WE do to cause this hate and what do WE need to do to stop it."

Nowhere has the singling out by the press and by leaders been political (e.g. Mormons don't think like Democrats so their wrong). It is simply a relgious specification. We could be closely aligned with the Democrats and would still get the same treatment. Thoughts otherwise are just silly conjecture or flights of fantasy.

All most Mormons are doing is just living their lives how they see it best, trying to be good people and trying to become better everyday. Being picked on and made fun of for peculiar beliefs is bound to happen by those with closed minds and little understanding of what they are talking.

Ohio | 4:23 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Jay (5:51),

Your bitterness against the Church seems to be rooted in a wide-spread misconception. Proxy baptism does not automatically make someone a convert anymore than bumping into, shaking hands, or having a discussion, with the missionaries does. It is an opportunity and an invitation which the individual can accept, postpone, or reject. Jews cannot be "made" converts without their consent regardless of what Mormons have done in their behalf.

Anonymous | 4:25 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

After perusing some of these posts I'm convinced the Mormon thing is a convoluted mess.
No thanks. I think I'll stay with my abomination of a church.

More about Gladys | 4:27 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I wish I had read this earlier in the day. Some early comments talked about Gladys Knight being a triple threat (Black/Female/Mormon) How strange that Gladys COULD be President......but she could not be a Bishop in the LDS Church. How sad.

hawkgrrrl | 4:27 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

As a member of the church, let people say what they want. I'm not going to swing at every pitch. If you take offense when it's intended, you're a fool, and if you take offense when it's not intended, obviously that's worse.

Growing up in the East, I was surprised when my (non-LDS) friends said they had all been at an inter-faith meeting about the Mormon threat. I answered their questions about the first vision. When they asked whether I believed we could become Gods, I asked what they thought the New Testament meant when it says we are "sons (and daughters) of God." They were just curious. As one of my friends remarked, they were surprised that the only time their various religions had come together was to gang up on the Mormons, which he laughed about.

Decent people of all faiths and no faith at all are not going to be influenced by hatred and fear-mongering.

re:Hater | 4:28 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Hate away there buddy.

We're there either way.

Regards,
Active LDS Adult Male

Black and LDS | 4:29 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

This article helps others see why discrimination on any level is so cruel and ugly. It's not fair, nor pleasant to be the object of prejudice. Denying others the opportunity to pursue offices of public service based upon religious beliefs, race or gender is unconstitutional and is inherently counter to the values and beliefs our nation has been founded upon. As we continue to perfect the institution of liberty established by the "Founding Fathers," there will be a day when the religous beliefs of others will be fully respected and not held against them. As a member of the LDS Church, it is important that we also respect and prohibit the judgement of others based upon their religious beliefs. We cannot expect what we are not willing to give.

Anonymous | 4:30 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

This is the reason for the term peculiar people!

Mormons will be singled out for sometime because we are different... by design.

Suggesting that Mormons should change views to be more accepted by the mainstream is just wrong. It about living your beliefs, not avoiding the rehotric of the intolerant or misinformed.

kevin | 4:32 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

For all the vice and misery and hate and crime that exists in the world, I would hope that all religious sects would rally together and accept the differences and celebrate the similarities. Part of the problem is that there are so many similarities that the differences are easier to see.
Moshe Akiva, thanks for the info I hope that we can unify more faiths who share the same values!

to anonymous | 4:34 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

That's fine. And I as a Mormon would never deny you that privilage. Do the same for me, would ya?

Susanna Smith | 4:39 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

You just have to remember that we as members of the church are ask to turn the other cheek. When untruth's and negative comments are made. We have th truth and Satan is working hard to destroy the Lord's true church!

More Fuel for the Haters | 4:40 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Boy, this column sure gave the haters more fuel for their fire.

Pulling out the ole' stand by refernces to Missori, selling booze at ZCMI in the 1800's and all other churches are abomination..gee never heard those ahter comments.

Perhaps you should focus on the main message of the article, that it is open season on a people because of what they belive.

This is dangerous for America because it can happen to ANYONE, not just the Mormons (whom many on the log seem to hate and find it convenitent show this hate by their comments).

It is how I imagine they old (maybe even the current) South was/is. People allowing a group to be singled out and bashed with little or no resistnace and then the racists (KKK, etc.) jumping in and saying - the group doesn't derve to be treated equally - simply because they don't like them or disagree with their beleifs.

Sad sad situation that we are in 2008 with this same type of behavior happening.

Think about it haters.

Weary | 4:42 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Mr. Robinson,
Please, get a life, a clue, or join the Sutherland Institute. Jeez......

To Mr. Robinson | 4:43 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Nice article.

Does it make you feel better about your article bashing Austin Collie because your kid couldn't play at BYU?

I doubt you are sincere in what you write. I think the word is hypocrite.

Good luck.

(PS We miss the Mullett. When are you growing it back)?

Northern Observer | 4:43 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I fully enjoyed this piece and think it is well written. I am a Canadian observing the American politcal machine with distaste.

A person's religious affiliation should have ABSOLUTELY no bearing on their ability to run for politcal office. I don't know who I would support at this point, but I will state that I am tired of hearing about Mitt Romney's (and other candidate's) religious affiliations.

As in this article is does seem that any personality, show or writer can make untrue and / or defamatory statements about the LDS faith with no comments. If these comments were being made about any other faith or ethnic group, your whole nation would be in an uproar.

As an impartial observer, leave the faith barbs and attacks (either educated or otherwise) out of your race for the next president or your country.

Robo | 4:44 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

It's interesting that in the late 1800s Church leaders "called" members of the LDS church to be Republicans because they were so predominantly Democrats. Also interesting is that none of the things tossed at the LDS church are without biblical precedent, nor are they unique to Mormonism. None of it. If you don't believe polygamy, denying the priesthood based on lineage, revelation, proclaiming the gospel to the world, living prophets, changing religous rites, practices, and laws based on the capacity of the people and existing geopolitical climate, or thinking the church contains the truth are possible religious practices, then you better throw away your Bible. It's not the persecution that gets old, it's the singled-out status that gets old. Where are the anti-any other religion websites? Where's the bashing of other religions who also have aspects of faith for which Mormons are harangued? Other religions have denied even membership to blacks, other religions have practiced polygamy, other religions have additional scripture, other religions think they have the full truth, other religions believe they are led by a prophet, other churches have imperfect people, other churches have supressed portions of their history! Fairness, that's the problem.

The Golden Rule | 4:52 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Some of us, your non-LDS Utah neighbors, are scared Romney will win because of posters like "BY and owned Beer?" To mention homosexuality and then equate it with pedophilia is rank bigotry of the worst kind, and is almost always used by the ignorant and the hateful. If you want people to see the positive LDS church that I see, please stop with the "poor us" attitude and the hateful pronouncements: neither put the church in a good light.

White American Male | 4:55 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Doug, your article is right on! Except you failed to mention that there is one other group that that seems to also escape the conventions of Political Correctness. Have you ever noticed that while jokes about women, races, religions, disabilities, etc. are all considered in bad taste, politically incorrect and cost people their jobs. Jokes and slurs about white American males are acceptable, funny, and in vogue. I guess the spin minions can't attack Romney for being a white American male. Mormons are in pretty good company.

Re: More Fuel -- MAIN POINT | 4:57 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I agree.

It can happen at anytime to any one.

Reverend Martin Niemoeller made a famous quote about Nazi Germany:

When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

The point is not whether you like Mormons, it is whether or not the LDS deserve the bigotry, and from a man (and supporters) who won the Iowa Caucuses.

Tyranny of the Majority.

wow! | 4:57 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Just when I think this nation is getting past it's sorted past, I read these comments. I wish I wouldn't have. I did not really buy into the article until I felt the anit-Mormon hate comming from your comments. When will we love our brother?

Bookaholic | 5:00 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Paul, Romney didn't say he wouldn't put a Muslim in his cabinet. He said he would not set up a cabinet with slots for different groups. He would appoint the person best for the job.

We Deserve It? | 5:00 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I gues Rosa Parks also deserved being thrown off the bus and the Jews deserved all that they have had to endure as well?

Same thinking, different age. Scary stuff.

To "Found the other Truth" | 5:06 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Why such negativity? I don't get how anyone can hate a specific religion, race, gender, etc. You obviously have serious problems with Mormons. My experience has shown that anytime someone has such hatred toward any group (no matter what type of group it is), it's not the fault of the members of the group, but of the indidvidual. I encourage you to be more open minded and not hold grudges for something a few Mormons have done to you. I have been around Mormons my entire life and the majority of them really are trying to be good Christians in every aspect, but they still are not perfect. They have helped me in many ways, many times and will do the same for you too if you let them.

re:: ROBO | 5:07 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I don't believe in polygamy! What you say ROBO JO is your own beliefs. Times have changed and so has the church. Somehow ROBO, come out of the dark ages. NO ONE CARES ANYMORE!

MODERN MORMON

Andrew | 5:08 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Just think, all this comotion caused because a righteous LDS man is running for president. Now that we LDS have the national spotlight on us, we should let people know about the true gospel, and use this opportunity. We are above getting offended by snide comments, we need just to turn the other cheek. I mean, are we seriously going to get offended with something as cliche as the comment posted by "Duck", something about Mormons being better waterfowl than the rest? And I supposes some of you wonder why Romney didn't do so well in that debate? Well, he has a religion to defend. I would really like to see Hillary or Obama defend THEIR religion, now THAT would be a sight to see...

to: Whaaaaaaaa | 5:09 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Umm, We do not beleive in being gay, BUT most of us if not all DO NOT think OR treat any one that is any other race, relegionon or has any other standards, like second class citisens. We LOVE everyone for who they are! P.S. We Don't have horns OR a tail!

Anonymous | 5:13 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

There is nothing wrong in standing up for someone and their faith. I liked this article. There should be a level playing field in politics, and people should play fair. But if life were about to get fair, I doubt it is going to happen anytime soon.

MISSISSIPPI MORMON | 5:17 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

IM A FELLOW MORMON , IM SORRY ITS HARD FOR YOU.

Re: Robo | 5:17 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Robo,

I think you are missing the point. We (LDS) do not have to constantly make arguments for what we belive and why. What we belive is different from others and some have real doctrinal problems with our teachings. So what? That's okay. We know.

The issue brought out in the article is that because you disagree you can single out and discriminate (at some level).

I am not concerned that everyone ends up sharing my beliefs nor do I feel I need to justify everything others may or may not understadn about our faith.

I am concerned, however, that the concensus out there is it is open season on an entire group of people and it is OKAY because there are not many of them or they are just out West.

We need to battle the intoleranece, not the non belivers.

Lori, UT | 5:19 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Dear areyoukiddingme, You miss understood me. That's exactly what I was saying. Here in the USA we believe in tolerance, do we not? In Iran and other such countries, you have dictators telling you what to believe. In those countries we should be having the conversation about religious tolerance. In the USA we should have ended that conversation long ago, along with burning witches and realizing the world is round. It's beyond reason that in our country we still have to call names and can't just agree to dissagree. I hope I was clearer this time.

Former Utahn | 5:22 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I moved from Utah to Indiana ten years ago. Mormons in Indiana treat non-mormons the same as they treat Mormons. We're all children of god. Our best friends are not Mormons. We still believe strongly in our religion, but our friends are just as wonderful as our fellow ward members. Most people react favorably to people who treat them with respect. Of course there are some anti-Mormons here, but some Mormons are anti-somebody, too. These are the minority. Quit worrying so much about it and just get along.

Reality Check | 5:24 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Hey Kat69, I am an open-minded Mormon. Please share with me your references on the Church's ownership of stock in the major soda company or the Fisher Beer brewery up Brigham way, so I can "look it up?"

Oh, also that reference where the church says caffiene is now okay. Must have missed that one in Sunday School!

Lori, UT | 5:28 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Dear Main Premise, how very sad that you feel that you have to knock down all the other religions for the sake of your own beliefs...I too am LDS and understand that we have the fullness of the Gospel. But, I also understand that by saying that the LDS Church is the only true church, you are only alienating others from ever investigating our beliefs. There is truth everywhere in the world...and just because you don't understand someone elses beliefs doesn't mean that they are wrong. At the very least, as I stated before, it's okay to agree to dissagree, is it not? I am very proud that our church chooses to be tolerant of other religions. The church itself does not teach intolerance of other religions, and I would venture to guess that the leaders would prefer you use other tolerant means in your attempt to preach the gospel. You catch more flies with honey...as the saying goes.

Anonymous | 5:29 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

To Hater;
LDS read past your first line. Still don't quite understand what your beef is. Sorry that you have such hatred but you did not specify why the hatred.

Anonymous | 5:41 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

"The Golden Rule" is yet another LDS person preoccupied with "putting the church in a good light." Is THAT all LDS people think about?
Businesses also are preoccupied with putting their names in "a good light" and pay their Public Relations people fortunes to do so.
I am suggesting to LIVE your religion - not just worrying about a P.R. campaign all the time. You are starting to look a little off-center.

Lena Baron | 5:56 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I loved this article for many reasons and I hope that it gets spread around. However, I think that it is time for an article that touches on the fact that Mitt Romney's religion has become way too much of a focus and why that is so unnecessary. There should be an article that defines all of the great reasons Romney is a very qualified candidate for president. I appreciate the fact that his morals are good. Nevertheless, someone should mention that he is a very qualified and experienced businessman, a well educated man, and a leader. The details that go with those qualifications should be researched about Mitt Romney and publicized. His religion is just a tiny part of the man.

Watching from afar | 6:03 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I live in SC. I have received numerous unsolicited (perpetually forwarded) emails bashing Hillary as an unworthy "the b word" - no reason given by them as to why she is "the b word". I have also received a slew of bigoted unsolicited emails about Obama who the emails claim is Muslim and hence unworthy. Not ONCE have I received this type of emailing bashing Mitt the Mormon. In fact, not one bashing him in any way.

Although I understand he's just a non-entity in my own little corner of the world, despite my not receiving any, there is likely to be Mitt the Mormon vitiol out there just as there has been sexist, racist, bigoted vitriol about others in my inbox.

I think the writer of this article needs to get out more. Tha article is one sided and simply incorrect Mitt as a Mormon suffers this alone.

I also think Utah Mormons need to stop whining with their we are the center of the universe and the only ones persecuted persecution card. It is not flattering and IMHO, it instead undermines.

compassion | 6:10 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I have the utmost compassion for my Mormon brothers and sisters.
What have they been telling you?

Didn't Our SAVIOR say: | 6:11 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

#308 LDS Hymnbook; Love One Another

As i have loved you, love on another.
This new commandment,love one another.
By this shall men know ye are my disciples,
If ye have love, love one another.

Very simply said but i do have to comment afterwards.
i am LDS, and understand where anti-mormons are coming from. i have been in similar situations before but i remember what i was taught in primary. continue to love all as JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR told us to.

Leviticus 19:18 states:
"Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF: I AM THE LORD."

where is the love....?
i will not disobey my Lord.
i love all. do you?

loving laurel in YW-16 yrs old
i love you all. may the Lord tend to all of you, for you are his flock.

Pointless article | 6:22 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Mr. Robinson. Would you have concerns if a JWitness were running for office? Would you have concerns if a Scientologist were running for office? Would you have concerns if a member of the KKK were running for office? Fact is, people are not so much religious bigots as they are ignorant of who and what Mormons are. Until we as Mormons figure that out and help to get out the truth, we will continually be treated this way. Face it, we are a relatively new religion (at least to the public) that had a couple of very blatantly odd practices (polygamy and blacks not having the Priesthood until 1978, only 30 years ago). If you ever leave the state of Utah and heavily Mormon areas of California you will immediately realize this. People are constantly surprised that I am Mormon where I live because I am not white. They always thought incorrectly that only whites can be members of the Church. If you thought this of a candidate, would you vote for him or her?? Would you make it an issue?? I'm sure you would. Not because you are a bigot but because you are ignorant of the truth.

HOORAY! | 6:38 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Someone finally had the guts to bring this to media attention. I am SO tired of the Mormon-bashing! I agree, NEVER would they say "Would you vote for Obama since he is BLACK???" in a poll. Yet, daily we see that for Mitt. I could go on, but I just want to say THANK YOU for the article!

Marilyn from Washington | 6:43 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Great reading, points well stated, thought provoking!

Facts | 6:46 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Here are some facts for everyone.

Fact - The LDS Chuch does not, and will never, be a PC religion. Therefore, it's okay for anyone and everyone to attack the LDS Church, whether those attacks are based on facts or not.

Fact - The LDS Church will always be attacked by those who either leave the church, or those who have strong and even bitter disagreements with their doctrine. People like Lawrence O'Donell, Rebecca Walsh and other media bloodhounds will never go away, so Latter-day Saints must learn to live with their words.

Fact - No matter Latter-day Saints do in showing compassion, kindness and love to their non-Mormon neighbors, co-workers, classmates and family members, it will NEVER be enough. The LDS Church will, in their eyes, always be a racist, sexist, homophobic, self-righteous and evil cult.

Watching from Afar | 7:06 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Oh baloney, in SC they fully expect Obama to do well because we have a high black population. They make no bones about it in the media. Black Obama will do well with the millions of Southern blacks. They assert it one, they assert it twice......

And only the dumbest of even white Southerners would argue the assertion, or start calling it an issue of bigotry.

Baffled | 7:27 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Some of the comments posted here, specifically ones which comment on others' postings do exactly the opposite of the article's message; they show disrespect. Some who posted here disagreed with each other in a kind manner, but some who profess to be Mormon, used sarcasm, name-calling, etc. Interesting. Do unto others...

re:Baffled | 8:17 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

"but some who profess to be Mormon, used sarcasm, name-calling, etc. Interesting. Do unto others..."

Do I detect sarcasm and judging here?

Maybe Mormons are just like everyone else?

Disagree with facts | 8:32 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

"Here are some facts for everyone.

Fact - The LDS Chuch does not, and will never, be a PC religion. Therefore, it's okay for anyone and everyone to attack the LDS Church, whether those attacks are based on facts or not."

--See, I believe that the LDS will be PC after the second coming -- although at that point Christ won't be needing the help of "organized religion".

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