Deseret News | Better duck — if you're a Mormon

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Doug Robinson: Better duck — if you're a Mormon

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convert | 11:23 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Thanks Doug. It is refreshing to read the truth about PC hypocrisy and the free pass given to anti-Mormon bias. Bigotry is alive and flourishing - just read some of the comments posted here. Innane and ignorant comments are to be expected from bigots. Our challenge is to respond to demeaning criticism with intelligence and conviction. Hopefully we will gain the friendship and credibility of reasonable people.

Jamie | 11:28 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Great article! You're right on in this commentary.

From AZ | 11:31 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

This is so true. One of those things where we all see, all think it, and finally Robinson mentions it. Good for him.

I hope this is picked up and printed in other papers, outside of UT. I can think of one terribly, unashamedly Mormon bashing newspaper here in AZ.

Thanks Doug for your article. Hopefully it will call some attention to the need for more tolerance and understanding.

Comments continue below

Zach | 11:34 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Referring to the comments posted, I have never seen so much generalization in my whole life. "Mormons are this, Mormons are that." You people who talk like that probably know, what, one or two members of the church? I'm sorry, but there is no "commutative property of religion." We're NOT all the same. Yes, every group has its fair share of idiots -- the Mormon church is not exempt. Don't bias your view of a group of people based on one experience.

Veteran w/No Hate | 11:34 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Lt. James, above, made comment decrying Mitt Romney as not a great American just because he has no DD214. Lt James, that kind of attitude is NOT why we join, serve and fight! How bigoted and self righteous you are in claiming that wearing a shave tailï¿½s gold bar alone somehow qualifies YOU to be a card carrying great American. My father wore 10 WWII submarine Combat Patrol Pins. I wear 44 oak leaf clusters on an Air Medal earned during a very unpopular conflict. I donï¿½t use my service to denounce Cassius Clay, Ronald Regan, Bill Clinton, Mitt or any one else for choosing not to enlist. Great Americans are NOT qualified as such by military service alone. Your unkind characterization of Mitt Romney does not speak well of your understanding of what a soldier is and does. My own beautiful daughter, a Navy Combat Field Medic during Desert Storm, is certainly not judgmental of other mothers in her California neighborhood who have not worn the uniform. This is still America where all are free because of the blood sacrifice of hundreds of thousands of veterans, and all are free to choose to follow that tradition or not! JP

I'm a hater | 11:36 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I'm one who has bitterness towards the LDS church. Do you want to know why? No, of course you don't. You don't care, because the problem is all with me and none of it is with you, as your group is perfect. How do I know this? Because nobody who is LDS would dare read past the first line of this post. "Quick, turn your head! Close you eyes!"

Ron Paul 2008 | 11:37 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

While publicity about the church will only be ultimately a good thing, Mitt is still just a politician.
The only person worth voting for on either side of the aisle is Ron Paul.
Somebody send him a BOM

Killo-Watt | 11:39 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Among the uniformed comments about the LDS Church that are out place, insensitive, incorrect, and abusive are those proposing an elitist attitude of the LDS faithful. I would propose that any organization feeling it had a better way and felt genuine love for their brothers(Sisters) while exibiting love, tolerance and understanding for the different way would teach that way and feel compelled with that same love, to demonstrate it using their time, self and resources. If one(or their church) does(can) not zealously promote there faith, or believes that other faiths are essentially equal in there saving abilities there is no justification for those beliefs or organizations to exist (except to pay the preacher) and they might as well join with any other organization of faith. The LDS policy is not to tear down, demonstrate in offensive ways or publish inaccurate(or blatant lies) about other faiths doctrines, slander their leaders and histories nor to promote such during the political process. LDS stand on their own and teach through scripture a better way and back that claim with communications with Diety. Choose to ignor those claims, but don't use slander and unjustified critisizim for your justification. We love you all.

sj | 11:39 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Great article, perfectly stated. Email this article to friends that don't read the Deseret Morning News.

Mary | 11:40 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

OK. Some voters will not support Mitt Romney because he is a Mormon. I feel bad about this. Some people will vote for Mitt just because he is a Mormon. I feel bad about this, too. Oh for an electorate which studies the issues and votes (regardless of party) for what is best for the country.

Too all anti LDS | 11:40 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

As a former UT native and now finding myself living in the bible belt, I am amazed at the supposedly educated, informed, god fearing "christians", who do not see their own bigotry. During discussions they all agree that Romney is the more well rounded republican candidate with the qualifications for today's problems (economy, immigration), but "he is a mormon so I can't vote for him." Those that are republicans say they would rather vote for a lesser qualified candidate based soley on the fact of his relatoinship with the babtist church.

Your article is well recieved and hits the point on the head. Whether you are a Mormon or not, if you can't see that a group is being marginalize based upon religious belief, you arn't able or arn't able to critically examining the facts.

Colorado Perspective | 11:41 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

My mission experience taught me that the more people talked about the Church the more successful we were as missionaries. It didn't matter if it was anti or good exposure it all helped. So I think all this exposure whether good or bad info is helpful in the long run.

Jerry | 11:42 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Can you imagine the "hey day" the national press would have had if they had captured on camera people in the Romney campaign holding hands and holding a group prayer vigil as was captured and broadcast on TV with the Huckabee campaign workers. Not one word of negative comment .....

Ryan | 11:42 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

The only thing as pathetic as the unabashed bigotry against Mormons around the country is the behavior of those who either DEFEND the act, or DENY its existence (like many people on here).

It's real, it's wrong, and you know it.

Me | 11:44 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Great article! Even though Mormons are not the only group discriminated against, this article highly applicable to today's political race and cultural views. However, It was written at the right time, but wrong place. It needs to be in a national publication so that more people can see that all this focus on Romney's religion is pure bigotry.

Guy Smiley | 11:45 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I was astounded about the information regarding Obama's religion. "Unashamedly black", and "non-negotiable commitment to Africa." Come on, Jesus never taught those things, so why hasn't that "cult" been exposed yet?

Comical World | 11:46 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Mormons should not get so upset about all of the insensitive and misinformed comments. After all, we live in a marvelously hypocritical world. We laugh at and deride the inquisitions of the dark ages. But, really, there is nothing new under the sun. The dark ages persist. I laugh at the sheer hypocrisy of the evangelicals. The song remains the same, as does the stage. Truth will always be the subject of attack and derision by those who fear it the most.

re:hater | 11:48 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

That was dumb.

Robo | 11:49 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

A lot of the problem comes from misunderstanding two basic things - 1) the Church is true, not the people, and 2) a prophet does not walk and talk with God 24-7. 1) The church is composed of imperfect people who do not fully live its teachings, but non-Mormons can only judge the church by the lives of its members. The only Book of Mormon most people will read is your example. Live well, be honest, be kind, be active, be non-judgemental, and admit your imperfections. Being a member of the true church does not make anyone better than someone who is not a member and not being a member doesn't make a person bad. President Hinckley reminds us there is no room for a holier than thou attitude. (As a side to non-members, don't feel alone when you feel judged by some LDS people, those people are just as busy judging their fellow Mormons.) 2) A prophet is an imperfect person entitled to their own opinions and ideas. They do not know everything that will happen, nor is everything they say direct from God. They speak for God only when they state so.

Reader in Denver | 11:51 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

To GA Christian. We don't hide behind a "veil." Wrong religion. If you want to know what goes on in a temple, then go to the Rexburg temple open house. It's going on now. All other rites/meetings outside of leadership meetings are open to the public.

As for LDS playing with non-LDS, that is clearly intolerant, if it is solely on the basis of religion. Our kids have no problems playing with others in our neighborhood. The thing we will stop is if there is vulgarity spoken or unkindness shown on either side. Only under those conditions do we discourage or outright stop associations with our kids. Any LDS or non-LDS parent who prohibits their children from associating with the other group based solely on religion is not living according to Christ-like precepts.

But I believe Mr. Robinson has a point when it comes to who is "fair game" in the public square. Why make an issue of a person's religion if it does not interfere with the basic freedoms guaranteed by the US Constitution, IMHO.

Re: I'm a hater | 11:55 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I am LDS and I was eager to read beyond the first line of your post. And to my suprise I left empty, no understanding why you have bitterness toward the church. I ALWAYS read beyond the first line because 9 times out of ten the issue is based on a misunderstandingfalsehood or is an issue with a member of the church and not the church itself.

SLC gal | 11:56 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Thank you Mr. Robinson, for this article!!!!! This is an issue I myself have wondered about many times. I used to go on the MSN boards, and much to my chagrin I had to spend more time defending the church then debating the good and bad about Romney. I feel though if all they can come up with against Romney is his religion, that's pretty darn good.

why the surprise | 12:01 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

When a group spends all its time trying to set itself apart and insists all churches except their own is "an abomination" is there any surprise that people aren't going to add them to their Christmas card list?
Mormons aren't liked because they have designed it that way.

WishinAndHopin | 12:01 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I wish every newsperson, sports commentator, and politician would dog the mormons......

Soon everyone will want to know what the fuss is all about and there will be 30 million members

To "I'm a hater" | 12:05 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I am terribly sorry that you have been wronged by Who or whomever it was. I sincerely hope the rest of your life goes very, very well.

LDS

J.D. | 12:10 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

To: "I'm a hater"

Your not getting the big picture. Your a hater? You don't believe in the Mormon Church so you have to hate it? I've listened to many people who don't believe in the ï¿½hurch and I find that they have personal issues that make them feel that way. The Church on a whole if taken in correct context is very difficult to hate. Its like saying I don't like all Americans so I really hate the Constitution. Actually I can't try and put your words in perspective. They are emotionally biased.

perecution? | 12:11 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Perhaps the Mormons should remember that Brigham Young stated that the "day persecution ceases against this people, is the day the Priesthood is out of your midst." be greatful for the persecution, if it can really be called that. The more the church PR firm fights to "look the same as other religions" the more rapid apostasy approaches the door.

re: I'm a hater | 12:13 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

You actually didn't say anything...I would love to hear honest reasons for not liking the church. Our doctrine is ours. If we live as we ought, we'll be good people. Do you hate the church or do you hate the idiots who pretend to live their religion but don't? I don't appreciate those folks much either.

get real | 12:16 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Re; manaen. Choice? Are you kidding me? What about the choice to be catholic,jew or anything else? Do you think these groups would put up with this bigoted nonsense?

Marie | 12:21 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Excellent article. It just may let good honest people who believe in religious freedom breathe for a moment and rethink before attacking as a bigot other's beliefs and even concentrating on one church.

WOW-Doug is RIGHT ON | 12:25 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Doug is right on the money with this article. There really isn't another group of people in the "world" that can be attacked so openly as Mormons. During the first century, Christians shared the same hateful bias as Mormons do today AND for the same reasons - they were different than the establishment. Today, the "so-called" Christian conservatives attack, smear, propaganize and fear Mormons. The liberal media hates Mormons because they "stand for something" as Pres Hinkley has written. The sports world makes fun of mormon athletes because they don't fit the "tobaaco spiting, heck raising" image of most pro athletes. The New Testiment clearly states that the Lords people will be a "peculiar people". Who does that sound like???? Hmmmm....

cold toes | 12:27 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

no one is perfect. duh.

2 bits | 12:28 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Get a grip people. His article wasn't saying "Mormon's don't deserve criticism", or "Mitt is perfect". He's just pointing out the Political Correctness gap here.

The point isn't, "poor mormons are bing opressed", it's, "did you notice that Mormonism isn't protected by the usual Political Correctness Police? I think that was the point.

I don't know why this fairly obvious observation leads to all the bickering that follows in the comments I've read so far.

Personally I find it ironic that a candidate's religion is the ONE thing our founding fathers specified shouldn't be a criteria for holding office, yet it is the ONE criteria many people commenting in this forum are trying to defend.

People who defend the practice of using a candidate's religion to elevate or burry the candidate are in the wrong (Mormon or otherwise). And BTW... I know Republicans are the worst offenders.

Thomas | 12:30 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

That Florida sportswriter Le Batard is certainly aptly named. He *is* a real batard, if you'll pardon my French.

russ | 12:37 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

dear minnesota: you have asked good questions. FYI, I went to LDS meetings for years in order to play on the softball team. A championship team that wanted me and my brother to play, so we went to the requisite meetings in order to play. Sat through many a Sunday service. Of course, when one does that one sees things that otherwise would be hidden. Like the Bishop openly telling the congregation to vote for the republican gov. candidate. Or, the other Mormon softball players playing hookey, and not caring about attending one wit. Or listening to the gossip of who and who wasn't polygamist in the congregation. Or what girls were sleeping around. ahem....

As an outsider, I learned a great deal by associating with my local ward folks. A priceless education deep in the heart of Utah.

Miss Teen S.Carolina | 12:38 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I personally believe that US Americans are unable to do so because ah some people out there in our nation donï¿½t have maps and that I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and ah the Iraq everywhere like such as and I believe that they should ah our education over here in the US should help the US or err should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future.

Amen | 12:39 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen,

Curious | 12:41 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

To "I'm a hater" I'd love to know.

RangerGordon | 12:40 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Unfortunately, with gay candidates, many people in Utah see nothing wrong with making disparaging remarks and saying they're unfit for office.

This is a double standard--and it makes complaints like this columnist's a lot less convincing.

Who's moderating? | 12:40 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I find it interesting that I make comments all the time, especially on things related to sports, and they somehow get filtered out or never published. But you let such hatred regarding this article be published. Who the heck is moderating this website? Seems like they have an agenda.

Nothing New | 12:44 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

This is from an historical reference on some past LDS leaders and their secular pursuits, and it just points out that this argument is nothing new!

Elder Reed Smoot was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles from 1900 until his death in 1941. During much of this time he was also an outstanding member of the United States Senate. Many people encouraged him to run for president of the United States. But they told him he would have to give up his religion because people at that time would not elect a Mormon for president. He said, ï¿½If I had to take my choice of being a deacon in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or being President of the United States, I would be a deaconï¿½ (quoted in Bryant S. Hinckley, The Faith of Our Pioneer Fathers [1956], 202).

Henry Drummond | 12:46 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

The LDS Church has done much recently to try and reach out to people and correct mis-perceptions of the past. I believe that is the most effective course to take. Articles such as this that suggest that Mormons are singularly criticized are both unfair and inaccurate.

This current interest in Mormonism will be a great opportunity if you use it to tell people what you really believe in rather than using it to write shrill articles complaining about how bad you've got it.

The article does call for more inclusiveness in politics. This I agree with. Inclusiveness starts at home though, and what does it say about the inclusive nature of Utah State Government when the Governor holds "Mormon only" meetings to talk about values? Are Mormons the only ones who have "just and holy principles" to include in State Government?

This was another opportunity lost. I would think that this paper would want to be the first to point out that excluding non-Mormons from a discussion of state government is every bit as wrong as excluding Mormons would be.

Sheldon | 12:48 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Amen Brother!!!! Thank you for calling it exactly like it is!

kat69@yaoo.com | 12:52 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I think being a former member of the church and knowing both sides that there is something the "CHURCH" can do to effect its image. Look at your members. The way the treat fellow members in church as opposed to out of church. How about casting judgement on people, isnt that against what they believe? How about the people that forbid there children to play with non member children or the children who may be members but who's parents arent?

What about not allowing members to drink caffiene but once the church owns majority stock in a major soda company its all of a sudden ok? What about forbidding alcohol use, yet they once own a brewery in Brigham City or near there called Fisher Beer? Look it up people.

I am not here to bash the "church". Of course they arent getting a fair shake. But really look at why they arent and think before you respond. And dont use the well thats a small portion that do the bad things. No actually its not. I would say its 50%, besides sometimes one bad apple CAN ruin the bunch.

no big deal | 12:52 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

In the end, Americans doesn't give a ______ about Mormons or Mormonism. Live with it.
But soon all the Mormons will be packing their bags and migrating to Missouri - so what's the big deal?

Ken | 12:59 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I made a New Year's commitment not to comment on these contentious forums, so I'll pass on saying something purgorative about this overly sensitive Utah Mormon writer....

Anonymous | 12:59 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Lots of crazy cultists find their way onto these blogs.

Anonymous | 1:04 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

When are Mormons supposed to be migrating to Missouri?

Comical World | 1:05 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

To: "Hater": I love it when someone posts a comment that says, "That was dumb". Throughout my life, I have heard such comments from misinformed, myopic, closed-minded people of this world. When you can't understand something, it is very easy and comfortable to say, "That was dumb". I wonder if you are even capable of processing the meaning of what you describe as "dumb"?

Anybody but Mitt | 1:08 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

The headline should actually read: Better Duck--If you're a mormon who is being represented by a political candidate who is dishonest, phony, pious, and smug. Great Job Mitt.

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