Deseret News | Better duck — if you're a Mormon

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Doug Robinson: Better duck — if you're a Mormon

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MoJules | 9:49 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I have decided, if the elections in Nov have Huck and Obama on the ballot, I will jump to the other party and vote for Obama. I have said before, that I will not vote for a person that is a Mormon hater. I would challenge Utah people to make a stand in November, do the unexpected and vote against someone that for 12 years as part of his profession taught the evils of the Mormons, that is what Baptist preachers do. I would vote against someone that has used and twisted religious beliefs in his "innocent" ways. Huckabee doesn't hate Romney, he hates Mormon's and I feel that he would be a great danger to the LDS church. Don't think it could not happen. I would trust Obama more, because he understands being persecuted and judged, and face it he and Huck are both liberals, but one is running on the republican ticket.

why | 9:50 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

This is a presidential race and our decision should not be made by religion alone. Who will be the best to run our country. Mormon or not.

Utah voter | 9:51 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

why did KSL denigrate Mike Huckabee all night the other night. They wouldn't call him by his real name and they were attacking him personally because he beat Mitt Romney in Iowa. I love the fact that Mitt Romney is running and "using" evangelical christians to win his primary and at the same time he wants to use those right wing christians and their religous values, yet he doesn't want people to discuss his religion (which they hate by the way). Makes no sense at all to me. Romney should have run as the moderate republican he is... quit running as something you're not.

Comments continue below

GA Christian | 9:51 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Being a non-Mormon living in Utah, one of the biggest problems I have found stems from confusing the LDS Church with the FLDS. People outside of Utah hear about the "polygamy" and "cultism" of the FLDS and think it applies to Mormons as a whole.

To be honest, as a male I personally have not had any negative experiences living and working with those of the LDS faith. They have been as accepting (and even curious) of my religion as I have been of theirs. I have worked, played and shared food with many LDS families and have many very close friends.

However, I have found that LDS women can be intolerant of non-LDS women, and non-LDS children can often be shunned by their LDS peers. Some would say that it is LDS teachings that recommend them to ostracize those who are not LDS. Others say it is lack of understanding. Maybe it's both.

I believe if the LDS Church wants to be accepted on a level playng field, they need to come out from behind the veil and let the rest of the world see what they're really about. Only then will they be truly understood and accepted.

Texas Mom | 9:54 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

well written article. You said what we all wanted to say.

TN | 9:58 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Mormons are in an interesting position in that liberals hate them for being religious, and conservatives hate them for being differently religious. Neither side is willing to join the fight against discrimination against Mormons, so Mormons are left to defend themselves, which is often ineffective and sometimes gives the unattractive appearance of a whiny group of people with a persecution complex. I don't see blatant persecution of the Mormons stopping anytime soon.

L. Childs | 9:59 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I am so tired of hearing about because he is a mormon. Please lets get over it and realize that the country will elect someone based on their ability to lead, nothing else, religion is an old excuse. I do take great offense to your mentioning that Barack Obama is of Muslin descent and has a terrorist name. Come on, get real. Who is getting their digs in now. Stop wasting our time with things we already know. And how you can get in print is beyond me, no wait, doesn't surprise me because its the Deseret News...Stick to the facts and write your own quotes based on what you are trying to get across,"ability", not anything else.

dickens | 9:59 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

The fact that blatant anti-Mormon bigotry is flourishing in America should be horrifying to all people who love our country and our constitution. How can this be defended or brushed aside? How can this be tolerated? What's next? Who's next? If this is accepted, is any group safe? If you've paid much attention to the national media, you will have noticed a relentless drilling by "intellectuals" such as Mr. Stephanopolous and Matt Lauer in each interview w/Mitt regarding his religion (questions they do not ask other candidates.)

19th century religious persecution of Mormons is a nasty chapter of American history which apparently is not history at all. Besides the media, we are confronted with the crafty and subtle bigotry of men like Preacher Huckabee who "innocently" play on people's fears and prejudices. The good ol'folk of Iowa were bamboozled by this travelin' salesman with his humble, homey ways. Yes, he certainly "knew the territory." We'll see how the rest of the country does with aw shucks Huck, the subtle old hyprocrite. For all we know, he is behind this whole anti-Mormon resurgence.

The exploitation of religious differences for political gain is un-American and against all we love and believe in.

HFN | 10:00 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Now I remember why I haven't read a Doug Robinson article in years. That was horrible.

His attempted blast a Le Batard is funny and blows up his whole point. Since Le Batard does point out two people's races and makes fun of the name and thereby the heritage of another player. But according to Doug (does he still have the mullet in the picture next to his column?) it was obviously a dig at mormons but not the other groups.

Doug also goes out of his way to attack Obama, under the guise of defending mormons. What a hack.

To NorthboundZax | 10:03 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Northbound you are part of the problem here. In his time, Galileo was killed by LOTS of religious ignorants because he believed and preached that the Earth wasn't flat. Nevertheless, the Earth still isn't flat.

Michigan Mormon | 10:10 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I WILL VOTE FOR MITT BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN HIS PLATFORM, AND HIS IDEALS. His candidacy is important for the times and for America.

GO MITT!

Ron in OC | 10:12 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

What's the point. The point is, people have to have someone to blame. If a Utah Non-Mormon is unhappy, it's because of the Mormon's. He can't do this because of the Mormons. He can't do that because of the Mormons. If his kid isn't student of the month, it's because of the Mormons. If he doesn't get the job, it's because of the Mormons. The sad thing is that sometimes it's very true, but overall, the "Because of the Mormon" gets a bit old.

Worried/Wary | 10:14 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Honesty in politics at a 100% never, it is now accepted at what % of honesty can a canidate get away with. Focus on issues only.
Honesty in the media will never exhist, it is what % of correct fact and fiction can a writer slew. Are'nt we as a society, tired of the negative perspective shoved down our thoats by the media. We need to think for ourselves.
Honesty with a persons religion is the % of that persons commitiment to there faith, church requirements and leadership.

I have learned from this political, media, and religious season, that the first questions I should ask when meeting a person are:

1. What is your political party
2. What is your religion
3. What media source to you side with

This country is so divided on all issues, there is no internal peace in this country. We treat our fellow countryman with great disrepect. It is time for Americans to change and quit fighting each other. Don't vote by political party. Vote on a persons performance, record, and issues that are important to lifting up the greatest country in the world.

LDS Hoosier | 10:17 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Is persecution on the rise, or are television and radio personalities taking advantage of a meme/trend in public discussions to garner attention with sensationalist statements about the Mormons? If we don't like what's being broadcast on prime time about Mormons, sometimes we need to write a letter, and sometimes we just need to turn off the tv for a bit.

Often the best way to put an end to inappropriate/childish behavior is to ignore it.

We should definitely help people understand how the restored gospel of Jesus Christ has blessed our lives. But I don't see the benefit of crying foul every time someone makes a disparaging remark. The Savior was accused of a lot of bad things, but he seemed to understand that sometimes an answer is required, and sometimes we can make our point best by staying resolutely calm as He did during so much of his final trials.

Outside Utah | 10:19 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

If a Mormon lives their religion as they are taught then most people who know them have a high respect for them. That is what I find in my business dealings. They do not always understand but respect us.

Those that profess to be Mormon and do not live 100% of the teachings taught to them and are not honest in all of their dealings are the ones that cause great consternation for the rest of us.

Those that profess to know what a Mormon is and slam us as the article states are generally uninformed or not good people and would hate anyone regardless of beliefs. Christ like people regardless of religion would not degrade others. I love working with all people and respect them all. Those that may hate me, fine. I know what I know and will share with others but will not force it.

Take religion out and who is the best canidate? Is this not what we need to do? Who has the ideas that are best for America? Problem is that we all have different takes on what is best. Sort of like religion.

beppa | 10:19 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

It totally amazes me that I still in what use to be The United States of America (the free nation) and still hear and see the bigotry for the Mormons. My husband is a Baptist and we may not agree on some issues, but we still have one anothers back. I understand Mike Huckabee, I understand Hillary Clinton, their view just don't happen to be close to my views. In the larger picture of things, I guess the only thing that I think about is this is what is suppose to happen to the members of the LDS church. I find that every time some one says a bad comment about us, they must be pretty fearful of who we are and the GOOD we all represent. Don't vote for a man who hasn't committed adultry or been divorced, or lies, cheats his fellow man, or just because he is educated and really the only option for the Republican Party... Obama will win if you don't cast your vote for Mitt Romney... Then see what second class citizenship feels like when he is in office... I will vote for the best person to represent our great nation... Mitt Romney!

To GA Christian | 10:21 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Women can be more emotional about stuff. But we are never taught to ostracize anyone who is different from us. ON the contrary we have an "Article of Faith" that teaches us that all men may worship according to the dictates of their own conscience, how ever they desire and another that says we are to be honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous and in doing good to all men. (It should probably say "and women and children, too." LOL) Our prophet teaches us to reach out to others who believe differently and not with an ulterior motive of converting them. (That would bug me!) But simply to love and care for others as Christ did. We do want others to experience the joy we feel and are anxious to share it with them. I agree some members take that too far and get pushy. Others may take rejection of our beliefs by non-LDS personally. That may result in that sense by non-LDS that they are being ostracized. That's unfortunate. If it's happening, it's due to the personal weakness of the LDS person or the extra-sensitivity of the non-LDS. In any case, we are taught to love and serve all people.

Patti | 10:21 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

To GA Christian: Thanks for what you wrote. What you said is probably very true. People in Utah need to give people of other faiths more of a chance. LDS teachings do not teach their people to ostracize others. There was an entire talk about that at a general conference a few years ago by Elder Ballard. He said that we do not believe in the doctrine of exclusion. You could even look it up on the lds website.

Doing this can be a bit of a delemma sometimes. For example, when I used to lived in Utah, we had some neighbors next door whom I really wanted to be friends with. When their grandchildren came to visit, I let my kids play with them. We had to put a fast stop to that because their granchildren were extremely foul mouthed. Small children soon mimick what they hear from others. I was really sorry to have to do that because I liked their grandparents. Now,in Texas, my children have friends of all faiths. They choose friends from other faiths who have good values and have really enjoyed them.

Scott | 10:23 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Amen Amen and Amen!

J.D. | 10:26 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

It seems to me that anyone who is making a big deal out of this article and attacking the author for even bringing up such a discussion are not Mormon and here to just continue the division they blame on the Mormons for being critical of others. Living in Utah and being Mormon brings on alot of interesting situations when around crowds who are for the most part Non-Mormon. The remarks in the City Weekly (which I read) or the Tribune continue to make this state devided over really stupid reasons that are emotionally biased rather than intellectually tollerant. As a Mormon I am taught in Church to be tollerant and respectful of others. I personally try to accept others despite their taste in dress, music, sports, politics, ect... But those who often belittle the Mormons have no such desire to try and love and respect others who are Mormon. I've spent a hundred nights at local clubs listening to music and have heard the anti-mormon remarks among the crowds. If people really wanted peace on earth or to end the war then they need to start with the people they attack here in Utah.

daveescaped | 10:29 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

That Mormons are fair game for all kinds of attacks that would be taboo to others is obvious. In fact I've been one of thsoe loudly complaining about the treatment we've recieved. But there also comes a tipping point where we are essentially complaining about fair critics (yes, there are a few). This articla sin't addressing critics but outright bigotry. But as we try to fight against blatant hatred and bigotry let's not lump our honest critics in the mix, lest we look like so many on the left who blanche at the slightest touch. As an example, my mother-in-law was unbelievably offended by the PBS documentary The Mormons. I, on the other hand, saw the program as a fairly balanced look at a faith by secular. I just hope as we grow we can also become the tolerant folks we are looking for.

To GA Christian | 10:33 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

What veil do you want dropped so the church can come out to the world?

What question do you want answered that hasn't been?

Please share with us specifics so we all know what you want to know but haven't been able to find out from lds.org. your local missionaries or LDS neighbors, etc.

I'm really curious what veil you want removed?

Mary | 10:34 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Great article! It will always be this way. But Mitt has handled himself wonderfully. He is sticking to the issues. His moral values, and his experience qualify him, not his religion. You just hope that people in this country are big enough to see that he has accomplished many things that qualify him to be president. I wanted him to run for the Presidency long before he did. His well run olympics showed that he is qualified. Over look race, gender, and religion and look at what the issues are and what they can accomplish for our country at such a volatile time economically and with foriegn relations.

Neeebraska | 10:34 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Heck of an article.

Joe Canada | 10:37 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Good article by Robinson. It's too bad this happens, but you know latter-day saints are attracting attention when the laughing stops and the accusations begin. It is best to stick to the direct facts though; side-step attacks on another party just brings latter-day saints down to the level of those slinging the muck. This should be the same approach serious candidates for office take; state the facts, make a pitch for clear, real change, support your facts with clear evidence, and let the voters decide.

manaen | 10:40 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I'm LDS and generally agree with the theme of this article. However, using Hillary Clinton's gender and Barak Obama's race as counterpoints to Mitt Romney's religious affiliation doesn't work because religious beliefs are a choice you make but your gender and race are set (barring extreme measures). This would make it OK to assess a candidate by their choices, including religion, but not OK to assess them by things they cannot choose.

Funny Things from AZ | 10:43 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Having served a mission many years ago I have been insulted in most ways. I am a professional person that travels to Asia a lot and work with many different people. Most respect me for what I am and I have many wonderful friends both in the Mormon Church as well as out.

On my mission I was asked many times where my "horns" were. People actually believed this as their "Christian" preacher taught them this. I was asked how many wives I had over and over again. Many thought we were the same as the Amish people who I respect immensely. One ï¿½Christianï¿½ preacher taught that we were "Angels from Hell" sent by the devil himself. Letï¿½s see we were clean cut, we did not do drugs, no premarital sex, did not swear, drink, smoke, gamble or even party on the weekends yet we were sent from Hell to this small town in Kansas? Those that got to know us were appalled and the rest were similar to those mentioned in the article. I would like to thank this minister as there is now a strong branch in this town of Kansas and many others that are now educated.

Anonymous | 10:44 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I was listening to PTI on the radio that day (love the show!) I heard the comment Le Batard made. I thought it was funny and I'm LDS. He's a great sportswriter and the Dolphins are his beat, of course he'll take digs at anything and everything about the team. Robinson made some good points in this article but missed on others.

Thomas | 10:46 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Are you serious? I can't believe you wrote that.

John F. Kennedy | 10:46 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Go to YouTube and enter "JFK on Mormons" -- you can see what the great patron saint of Democrats had to say about the LDS when he visited SLC about 2 months before his visit to Dallas.

Too Much To Pass On | 10:46 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

First to Reality, an 8:48 comment: "If you really have a problem, since you are an inside Mormon, why do you not partition the church to open their records . . . " Our church buildings ARE partitioned, usually into 3 sections . . . a Chapel, a foyer/over flow section, and a multi-purpose hall. OH WAIT A MINUTE, did you mean "PETITION" Ok then, you GO!

HFN you MUST feel like the Lone Ranger here in your attempt to trash Mr. Robinson's very well written if not politically OVERDUE article. Just read the other 133 comments and see how far from the point you are!! Your only ammunition is to take sides with Dan Le Batard, a SPORTS WRITTER from Florida??? Read the Deseret MN a little more often, it will open your eyes to the real world, my friend.

John | 10:50 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I quote: "But Romney is one of the few candidates who has no character issues, a "squeaky clean" man who has a distinguished record of accomplishments, success and service, with no divorces, no affairs, no scandal."

I'd like to know how this writer and others are 100% certain of the truth of this statement. Just saying...

NewsWorthy? | 11:00 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Of all the issues in the Presidential campaign, the Mormon persecution complex... isn't one of them. Waaaa. First, being persecuted... doesn't mean you're right. Second, get over it. Religions... ALL religions... get persecution. Try being Jewish. Or Muslim. Or a Catholic Priest for that matter. Or doesn't the author of this so-called "NEWS" article have an opinion on the Jewish Holocaust, or Muslim Jihaad, or molested boys? I'd find it hard to believe that someone with such strong opinions has never voiced one of condemnation about those issues.

So grow a thicker skin. Life isn't perfect. Get used to it. Learn to pick battles that MATTER instead of whining about being "persecuted" and misunderstood. You sound like the petulant, self absorbed, spoiled teenager that justifies their immature and self-serving behavior by citing the unfairness of it all. What they fail to realize is they'd be much better served if they just focused on accomplishing things that matter instead of trying to change the playing field by whining and complaining.

Stuart Merrill | 11:00 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Please note that not all non Mormons are anti Mormons. Many of us liberals in Utah who do not believe in the Mormon faith are often defending it. Have a look at the comments I posted today on "One Utah." The ironic thing is that it seems to be the liberal Democrats like me that constantly defend Mormons, and the Ultra Conservative Christians that say the most unkind things about the Mormons.

bigutefan | 11:06 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Mormons discriminate against gays, so now you know how it feels!!!!

jim h | 11:07 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

If mormons are being persecuted unfairly, they may want to ask the question: why?
Is it that the critics are mean people, wicked people or people that just don't understand?
Could there be something in the mormon culture that elicits some of these responses?

TKC | 11:08 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

This is a VERY well written article Mr. Robinson, and I am very happy that you wrote it! Your points are pure logic and irrefutable. I too don't understand why it is ok in today's culture to criticize Mormons. But then again...it has always been a victim of the public's firing squad....and it always will be.

Texas Yahoo | 11:10 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

As a lifelong Mormon who has lived in many states around the US, I think we obviously bring a lot of this on ourselves. I was picked on and made fun of when I was younger just because I was Mormon. But I still had lots of friends who didn't care. We are peculiar and so be it. We need to be just as tolerant to others as we hope they are to us. If they ridicule us because of our faith, it's their own bigotry and lack of self confidence that brings it out. Just forgive them, develop a thicker skin and move on with your life!

NorthboundZax | 11:12 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

TN - good insight, but as we continue to equate criticism with persecution, our persecution complex will never be assuaged either.

10:03 - I kind of hate to point this out, but Galileo's recanting was over heliocentrism not flat earthiness. More importantly than your erroneous history lesson, though, is that your criticism misses the mark. Maybe Dennis Kucinich really did see a bona fide UFO, but without any corroborating physical evidence he may have well claimed to have spoken to a moon-goddess as far as the vast majority of us are concerned. For good or bad, believing in unfindable, preColumbian, new-world, semitic civilizations with horses, steel, coinage, etc derived from a translation of gold plates that very few are ever allowed to see comes off the same way to most non-Mormons.

Aloha RPaul08 | 11:12 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Each time I hear others talk badly in public concerning the LDS church or any other group(religious, political,ethnic, etc.) I immediately see the ignorance and it diminishes the respect I have for the person and is very telling of their intellect. Sometimes when people open their mouths it shows too much of who they really are. My opinion is that prejudice is ignorance. Come on educated people!

Mormon | 11:12 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I am a Mormon, I do business all over the world and throughout the states, many clients, and associates know I am Mormon. I don't feel any pressure from them. We rib each other about their beliefs versus mine, but we respect each other and I have no problems. I feel respected and well received. Maybe it is a perception thing. People tend to react to something they don't understand in a defensive manner, we shouldn't take these perceived attacks as anything other than a person not reacting well to something they don't understand. If someone has a problem with my religion and makes a negative comment about it, I just ask them why they feel that way, and we have a good discussion. It happens all the time, but I never feel persecuted, just want to let them talk and see what it is up. We are all just trying to navigate our way through life, no big deal.

Advice | 11:15 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

It is no surprise to me that the LDS church is persecuted... it's only one more sign that we are Christ's church. However, I think that all of us LDS need to use this as an opportunity for good. We need to use this national spotlight to proclaim the gospel instead of letting those who know nothing of our religion do it for us. We need, now more than ever, to proudly and unashmedly stand up for our beliefs instead of getting offended when we are misrepresented!

Mormon in Baptist Land | 11:17 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Let me just tell you that I am appauled at many of the non(anti)mormons in Utah and the way they lash out. If you acted the same way in any other place with a predominant religion you wouldn't get the same hospitality as Utah.... trust me I know. Where I live if I wrote anti baptist things in our local paper there would be an absolute atomic explosion. Here I am expected to have my kids shunned because we're mormon, my wife treated poorly by my 34 year retired baptist minister neighbor. I am expected to take it because I am a mormon in baptist territory. Anti Mormons have always had a haven in Salt Lake City since they were sent there by the Federal Government in the 1800's to antagonize the church. The church tolerates them and is much more kind and they get treated much better than the anti catholics in rome or the anti baptists in the south. All goes back to the liberal party and the peoples party in the 1800's in Utah. The antis are the thorn in the side. The Lord must want the church to remain humble and learn patience...

Minnesota | 11:17 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

As a former Missionary I would dare say that Mormons are more tolerant of other faiths because they understand them. I have been to baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, Born again, Jehovah Witness, and Methodist church meetings and listened to their teachings. Most non mormons wont even let their kids go to a scout meeting at a basketball court if it is in a mormon church. Ignorance breeds hatred. Please tell me how many of you haters have ever gone to a mormon church meeting? I would be impressed

Whaaaaaaaaaa... | 11:18 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

You say that it's not fair that Mormons are now being viewed as second class citzens. Well they can get an idea of how that shoe feels. The LDS faith treated African Americans as second class and are still treating Gays as second class ciizens. Deal with it, I do. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

Duck | 11:18 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Better duck if you're a Mormon? So not only are Mormons better people, but they're better waterfowl too?

Reality Check | 11:18 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Great work Doug. Religion, race or gender should not disqualify any candidate. Unfortunately, in some minds at least one of these trumps successful business and government experience.

Reality, whether the church has or hasn't, does or doesn't, open its records for study and publication, what you propose is a no win situation. There will always be someone like you saying that the Church is holding back information because the truth doesn't fit with your agenda.

LT James, does one have to serve in the military to be a "great American?" What if one provides jobs for hundreds, if not thousands, or serves with distinction as a Governor, or CEO of the Olympics?

Mike W, "....polygamy not doctrinal..." not sure what point you are trying to make. The church doesn't practice it today as the current "doctrine" proscribes it (for obvious reasons). I love this topic though. None of us "cult members" practice it today, but it can't be dropped. As far as doctrine, you may want to check your bible on this one (Book of Genesis). I am pretty sure that the ancient patriarchs / prophets of God were polygamist! Wild, huh!

Meh | 11:19 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

This sort of thing happens all the time, you all are just now noticing it because it's being aimed at you. It's not right, but it happens.

Whoever it was that suggested nobody blamed catholicism as a whole during the "pedophile priest" episode obviously wasn't paying attention. But I guess since it wasn't aimed at you, why would you?

Mitt chose to run as a "man of faith" therefore, he invited his faith to be an issue.

My $.02 | 11:19 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Doug wrote: "But nobody is shy about saying you shouldn't vote for Romney simply because he is a Mormon ..."

Great sentiment. Perhaps a similar memo should be circulated in wards during Utah's election season, telling members not to discriminate against non-Mormon candidates.

Just a thought.

Thomas | 11:20 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Nice work, Elder Robinson!

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