Deseret News | Better duck — if you're a Mormon

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Doug Robinson: Better duck — if you're a Mormon

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Jack from Ark | 8:05 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Fellow Americans there is no argument that can be made to convince non-believers to believe what Mormons believe or stop antagonists from what they say. I personally am just tired of justifying my beliefs to others. I can tell you that there are many around the hurricane sites in Mississippi, Texas, and Louisiana that may not believe all that the Mormons teach but they have nothing but respect for the people of the church that helped them during that period. These antagonists just go for the cheep shot and should be ignored. If you think it is bad now wait and see what happens if Romney gets the nomination. Don't forget we had a Mormon that was assassinated while he ran for president.His name was Joseph Smith.

LT. James | 8:06 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

How can Mitt be such a great American, I can not find military service at all in his family. It appears with him and his son's he as a member of the elite that dodge the opportunity, vote McCain.

E Smith | 8:08 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

To those of you like Jay and "found the other truth" (whatever that really means): Smacks a little bit doesn't it, when you get called for your infraction? Your protestations of Robinson's article only serve to validate his point. Even if your allegations against Romney himself were true, the bigotry is aimed against the whole Mormon faith. In the recent scandals involving Catholic priests, the church itself wasn't universally held accountable, as well it should not have been. There is a double standard here, and while it may not be as severe nationwide as it appears in Iowa and Utah, it is still glaringly accepted in the media, and worse, around the kitchen table where it is perpetuated as acceptable for future generations. Bigotry is bigotry, even if it's just those Mormons.

Comments continue below

grundle | 8:10 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

My favorite comment so far was from "Boo Hoo from back East" telling mormons to quit acting like they are persecuted...

then started the rant with "And if you denigrate a racial group, women, and other religions then you're probably a Mormon"

That's Rich!

Happy day to everyone!

Dave | 8:11 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

There are people in this country who won't vote for Hillary because she's a woman, and Obama because he's a black Muslim. That's not the point of the article.

The point is that people who say anything of the sort in public or to the medi will almost immediatly have a major backlash of politically correct fanatics accusing them of bigotry and demanding a public penance of some sort.

Using Mormon in the same context has no such effect.For the few who disagree with this article, I suggest going to a (non-Utah) public setting and try using some of these bigoted sentences in public for yourself and see which generates a bigger reaction.

Steve | 8:11 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Great article Doug! I agree completely.

Alphonzo | 8:11 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

The most prejudiced comments against Mitt as a Mormon have come from the left - Slade mag, O'Donnell, various left-leaning newspapers including the SL Trib. The overwhelming majority of "born again" folks do not denigrate the LDS bunch - I lived in the South for many years. I was a confirmed John McCain backer, however, I am switching to Mitt. Why is it Mitt's father and Sen. Reid were never quizzed so much about their faith? I think the left wing press has determined Mitt is electable. So much for the understanding "liberals". Thanks for the article.

It's all good! | 8:17 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I have developed a thick skin, living my religion, in New York, Arizona, Oklahoma, and now Utah. Watching it misunderstood on a national, political stage has been a little frustrating and sad. I am a mormon and will not, no can not ever deny what I know from the bottom of my heart. Hey, America BRING IT ON!

Stick to the topic | 8:18 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Everytime you have a column like this it goes straight to "you Mormons" ont o this or that the topic was about how putting down the LDS Faith was PC in this election year. not what the history of the church has or has not done, simply that it is ok to hack on Mitts religion but not on any other candidates

no worries | 8:29 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

The root of criticism is bitterness. If a hater is bitter, its best to try and help them, not fall into their same trap.

Consider all of the positive things a person can do, take care of family, friends, neighbors, etc, that will bring the good feelings.

Let's forget the junk that gets thrown at us.

Craig | 8:29 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Great article Doug. You can keep score by how many comments you get. And they are so entertaining!

What you can't show in you article is how vile some of the comments are. I saw one blogger (GOP Latina) on a site about the GOP Primary continually assail Mitt Romney with repeated untruths about the Mormon church. She topped it off with a mocked up photo of Mitt in his underwear! If this is not over the edge, what is?

It seems that many of the anti-mormons here in Utah see this as no problem. Perhaps they are just jealous that they didn't think of it first.

But, hey, at least they are not throwing stones, knives, bullets, etc. Our ancestors would tell us to quit complaining and that we had it easy.

Doug from IL | 8:34 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I think it's great! Decoding the Jesus-Satan comment made by Huckabee led to a great conversation with a Jewish co-worker about the plan of salvation.
He has no intention of receiving the lessons from the missionaries and I have no expectation that he will become a member. But I do appreciate the opportunity to clarify our position.
But conversations like that don't happen if we have that chip on our shoulder.

Digbads | 8:35 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Thanks for the great article. It was right on.

Mitt Flopney | 8:35 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

People shouldn't vote for Mormons, that is unless they are Democrats. Most of the Mormons on Capitol Hill that are Republicans are crooks.

Voin C | 8:39 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

When someone can show me when African Americans furthered their civil rights within the Democrat party by voting for Republican conservatives, I will be more inclined to hear arguements as to why LDS should further their traditional conservative values by voting for liberal Democrats.

Moshe Akiva | 8:40 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I'd like to point out that it is not true that "nobody" else is concerned about the anti-Mormon bigotry expressed in the campaign. The Jewish community, including democrats, have been speaking against it. The ADL made it the lead issue on its web site twice in the past few weeks (The articles are still available on the "Religious Freedom" section of the site)and I have addressed it several times on my blog, "Two Sticks: Jews and Mormons in Dialogue."

Jews, because of our history tend to be sensitive to issues of religious bigotry regardless of who it is directed against.

Moshe Akiva

Jay Bee | 8:43 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

The problem is as Mormons we do not use our Church buildings to organize as a community politically. I think some of the other religions have an advantage in that regard, they can say "Come to Jesus"; oh yeah, and today we have Presidential Candidate Huckabee to speak to us for $25,000 dollars, but he can't talk politics, just religion. Being paid to speak on Sunday and being a Presidential Candidate means he is campaigning ALL the time.

Tollerance should be the name of the game. To quote Dr. Byrd, "We are more similar than we are dissimalar." I would be interested to see what whisper campaign about Mormons was circulated in Iowa to energize the evangelicals? You cannot tell me their wasn't a mention of "Mormons" in a lot of evangelical churches the three sunday's leading up to the Iowa caucus. I personally was surprised by their vehemence against a leader that champions their causes.

The Jews have the Anti-Defamation League, perhaps it is time for the creation of something similar for Mormons.

Reality | 8:48 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

To Doug Robinson. Is it really disparaging and often erroneous statements about Mormons that is troubling you. Or is maybe that too many of the statement strike too close to the bone of truth. If you really have a problem, since you are an inside Mormon, why do you not partition the church to open their records and history for study and publication and then we can all get a truer picture and comfort one another with knowledge in the light of true history and present practice.

Question | 8:50 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

That was some kind of apologist writing, Doug. Certainly some points in it are valid, too, especially for the ignorantly misinformed. But, you fail to complete the task, so I ask: When Utahns refuse to vote for, or support non-Mormons, would you consider them Non-Mormon Haters? I'm no fan of Huckabee, but your wondering why his public statements about faith do not rise to the criticism heaped on Mike Leavitt for his private attempts to infuse his beliefs into a State of the State speech and Utah public policy reveal that your coin actually has only one side to it despite your proclamations otherwise.

Oh, the poor Mormons! | 8:51 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

You say anything you want about anyone who isn't Mormon under your little beehive, and make second-class citizens out of them.

Now, the national spotlight is casting a negative shadow over you, and you're whining and crying to be treated as equals.

You need only look into the mirror to see where the problem lies.

Hello | 8:52 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

This article is correct. If it were any other group the ACLU and numerous other groups would be involved and there would be huge outlash. However, it is nice to know that at least one group of people are willing to follow Christ's example of love and instead to focus on loving and defending their faith person to person, day by day.

Led Zeppelin | 8:55 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

After the careless comments Huckabee made about Mormons I don't even know how you can call him a Christian. He did not even know what he was talking about and was talking evil about a Christian religion. If I were Baptist I would be ashamed. I know lots of wonderful Baptists that probably are and think Huckabee is disgrace to his own religion. But I guess as Latter Day Saints we should forgive and forget and move on being examples instead of being angry and easily offended.

oldman | 9:00 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

It's not like mormons knock other people or religions. Ever listen to their conferences. You are either with them or against them - and they make this very clear. They set the standards of right and wrong because they are the only true church.

Ron in OC | 9:02 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

In Utah things are pretty simple. The Non-Mormons blame everything that's bad on the Mormons. The Mormons blame everything that's bad on the Non-Moromons.

Yes | 9:03 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

...and what's your point?

Get over it all of you. | 9:03 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

While you all swabble about what is going on and persecutions that are out there. Remeber that throught all time persecutions have been part of the those who fallow the teachings of God.

This is what Joseph Smith said in the Wentworth Letter about it.

"the Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done."

Anonymous | 9:04 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

THANK YOU, GREAT DISCUSSION, YOU PROUDLY SAID WHAT I HAVE WANTED TO SAY FOR A LONG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bert | 9:08 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

"If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed."
-J. Reuben Clark

Happy Mitt Supporter | 9:08 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

There are mainly 3 offenders in this category:

1- the MEDIA. They promote it constantly. Fair and unbiased is fake and impossible.
2- the CANDIDATES. They take what the media gives them. What would happen to Mr. Huck Finn if he were make the stand that Muslims, athiests, and some of our deviant ancestors will unavoidably spend their afterlife devoid of salvation? Reportedly, they cannot accept Christ after death?
3- the MAACP (Mormons Are Almost Citizen People). Alright, it may not exist--but can you find anti-Baptist literature, anti-race literature, anti-gender literature being openly driven to the voting constituents?

Dan Bigelow | 9:10 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Back when the early Christians were being persecuted, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel gave some great counsel to those doing the persecuting. You can read the full text in Acts 5:34-39 (gee, I guess "Mormons" do believe in the Bible)

He reminds the persecuters of other groups, i.e., cults, that had come and gone. Then addressing the situation then taking place (the persecuters wanted to kill the Apostles Peter and John) he said:

"38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God."

I think that pretty much applies today. If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Sains is the work of men, it will eventually come to nought. However, if it be of God, it cannot be overthrown.

I guess some of you will just have to wait to see which it is. I already know.

To: Oh You Poor Mormons | 9:14 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Thanks for confirming the author's point. I notice that you forgot to sign your name Mr. O'Donnell. See you on the next McLaughlin Group episode...

Ram | 9:16 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

The LDS church has done much good, and has been good for me. But why is there so much dislike?

One theory: We try to ram the church down people's throats.

Tracting should be banned. Biggest waste of my time. Who likes sales people coming to your home? We should stick with the media ads. Let interested people come to us. Same thing with people out enjoying themselves on a walk, stop hounding them.

Other theory: We have an elitist attitude and believe we are the only true church and only way for someone to be saved. There are many good non-LDS people who do good things. Do you really believe that God is going to require baptism into the LDS church to be saved? Yes, when you are an elitist you will be scrutinized, and our history is far from perfect.

Utah Native | 9:18 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Utah: The Divided State. Name another state in the entire country that has the same bitter religious conflict?

Non-beliver | 9:19 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Exactly what did you expect when Romney ran for president. Some of you Mormons said. "Oh goody, Mormon for president." How naive can you be. It opened up the shooting gallery. Mormons have always been like a fish in a barrel. Get used to it. IF YOU CAN'T STAND THE HEAT GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN OR STOP BEING SUCH A CRYBABY.

Thanks.... | 9:20 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Thanks for this wonderful article!

Mr. Robinson | 9:22 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Nice way to speak out of the other side of your mouth.

A few weeks back you were slamming Austin Collie for his "Mormon Comments" because your son was playing football at the U of U.

Are you a hypocrite?

Hypocricy of the population | 9:25 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

What is so funny is how quick everyone was to rip on the guy who first commented about how on a national level the Mormons are being attacked. Yet he is spot on in to write about how in Utah Mormons are the majority and do that same thing to other religions or those who chose not to practice their religion. For all of those who say he needs to get on topic and realize this is a national article you are the Morons. It is about passing judgment and how it goes unnoticed or unchecked. Sort of like what happens when you are asked if you are in the club at work in Utah. Ah the hypocrisy is amusing. Poor persecuted Mormons.

James | 9:25 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

But Dan...you cannot prove that. It's all based on faith in the Bible and LDS church leaders. You say you know it's true, but I know it's not true. So, why don't you abandon your church and come join my side?

Wassup | 9:26 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Oh, the poor Mormons!........

You make yourself a second class citizen. Don't blame me for your 'woe is me' attitude. The reason Mormons moved to Utah was to get away from folks like you and your attitude.....now it's time for you to move if you don't like it here.

RoyBoy | 9:31 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

There are plenty of reasons for being against Mitt Romney regardless of the fact that he is LDS. Foremost in my mind is his admiration of and closeness to the Bush-Cheney administration and their illegal and inhumane policies. While all other candidates wisely distance themselves from most of that, Romney doesn't and somehow still talks of himself as another candidate of change. Don't be fooled; it would be more of the same cow-towing to big business and ignoring the environmental catastrophe we are heading for.

Ram are you really a LDS | 9:31 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Ram,
Or you are a new member or you are not a LDS.
Your comments are not from an active LDS

Paperboy | 9:32 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I agree with a lot of what Ram says. Unfortunately Mormonism today is perceived as a bit elitist, kind of like getting an IVY league education. When you are given priviledges, you don't boast and you don't disparage others' lifestyles or religions and claim yours is "best". Also, I think one of the worst things for modern Mormonism is that the Republican party has become the default political party for the faithful LDS membership. The church needs to do a better job encouraging LDS members to join other political parties, especially the Democratic party. I think this, along with respecting others' beliefs, will do more to soften the LDS image in the short run than anything else.

Great Opportunity! | 9:33 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Thank you, Doug! I read a similar article from the New York Times yesterday which made the same pertinent points. Whether Mitt wins or not his attempt is doing something wonderful. It is causing the great people of our country, of all persuasions, to "consider something which they had not considered". The stage has been set for open, frank, intelligent and spiritual discussion. And then, those of all persuasions can decide for themselves if there might be something more important to themselves personnally and individually than having Mitt Romney for President.

I think Mitt Romney would make a great President, less part of the political machine(but not entirely) and more like a fine honed CEO of a business; but there are greater things at stake if his candidancy can dispel myths, educate the masses, or at the very least make for a lively public discussion that eventually hits on some fact. Attacks of this nature are productive if not met by apathy and silence. Just stand up and take it on the chin and tell others what you believe! I believe this is what Mr. Robinson intended and succeeded to accomplish in his article. Thank you, again!

Colorado voter | 9:34 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Great Article Doug! I would vote for Mitt Romney no matter what religion he is because he is by far the best candidate. Hillary is already all weepy and emotional! Can you imagine her breaking into tears during an intense Summit meeting that she gets her feelings hurt in? She is weepy because she is losing and this is "personal". Give me a break!
Go Mitt!

Eric Hyer | 9:37 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

The Iowa caucus and recent opinion polls show that Americans have overcome racism and sexism in politics, but still havenï¿½t gotten over religious bigotry.

Knowah | 9:42 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

The Lord has declared in both the Old and New Testament that his chosen people will be a "peculiar people." Let's face it, we are a peculiar people according to the standards and practices of the "world" and this has simultaneously further removed us from obscurity. We should take time to rejoice a little in our fulfillment of ancient prophecy.

Wade S | 9:43 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Thank you for your comments, Mr. Robinson. I have often felt the same way. It seems that much of the information about the LDS church in the media is incorrect, and this misinformation coupled with the media's biased view against the LDS church has earned such an opinion piece as Mr. Robinson's a pertinent place in the national discussion. Journalists, take note: facts should be checked, sources should be reliable, and both sides should be represented; otherwise, it's an opinion piece, not a news story.

NorthboundZax | 9:45 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I think Robinson's thesis is better described in Nate Oman's blog "An Al Smith Moment" on Times and Seasons. Although I agree with much of what they say, they both fall short when comparing being a Mormon to being black or a woman. Those are lifetime genetic traits that have nothing to do with thought process or ideology. Whereas Mormonism (like any religion) is an ideology which can be embraced or discarded at anytime (unlike genetic traits).

Would anyone honestly think that an unwillingness to vote for a flat Earth adherent would be an unwarranted prejudice? Most would simply see it as a reluctance to harness oneself to someone that thinks something (he/she sees) so patently wrong as to be disturbing - and possibly even worthy of derision.

A belief in scriptures about an archeologically invisible society written in an unknown language on disappearing gold plates just comes off as too flat Earthish for many people's comfort. I suspect a lot of people have had their non-vote for Dennis Kucinich confirmed when they hear his UFO sighting story. I have little doubt if his candidacy were the least bit viable we'd hear plenty of derision there.

jmac | 9:45 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Nobody said we're perfect; we all have our problems (ask any Bishop), but the disparaging comments and jokes do get old. Thanks for saying what many already think. Great article and great writing. Thanks, Doug.

Hispanic in AZ | 9:47 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Hey, now you know how us Hispanics feel here in Arizona . Thanks to all the anti-inmmigant sentiment going on in AZ and nation wide. Not only that but if you happen to be a Hispanic LDS. Tell me about it. At least you can be on one of the inmmigrant's shoes.

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