Deseret News | Better duck — if you're a Mormon

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Doug Robinson: Better duck — if you're a Mormon

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Clint from New Zealand | 2:06 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

I applaud Robinson for saying it like it is. It is unbelievable to say that Mormons aren't Christians. It is amazing that it seems to be more politically correct to be a Muslim than a Mormon. Hooray for Robinson.

Ex-Mormon in London | 3:09 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

As I am an Englishman living in London, could someone explain to me when America stopped being about Religious Freedom? I thought that was the principle that your country was built upon?

Like Romney or hate him - vote for him or don't - but let the man practice whatever religion he chooses.

Isn't that what Religious Freedom is all about?

Emma | 5:58 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

What does Warren Jeffs have to do with Mitt Romney? Both belong to different churches. At least try to stick with the fact pattern.

The problem that I have with the church and its people is the severe editing of history and fact. Deseret News also participates in such behavior, but then this paper is also lds owned. That is why I cannot in good conscience vote for Romney.

As for me I am ex-lds, so mormons consider me anti-lds.

Comments continue below

Matt W on Mike W Comments | 6:02 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Is it "duplicitious" to hand pick remarks, offer them without context, and present them in an attempt to define someone else's faith?

The Mormon-Basher's Playbook, from which Mike W borrows, would like to define latter-day saints by the most obscure quote or practice they can find. But walk into an LDS chapel on a given Sunday and what are you likely to hear? Probably some emphasis on living Christlike principles in one's life. Or service. Or self reliance. Perhaps spreading the faith. Walk into a given area of the U.S. or many parts of the world following some calamity, and what are the Mormons there likely to be doing?

It's not as acceptible to hate on a group of folks like that, so you attempt to define the LDS as something else.

As for the Romney quote, I saw at least one interview where he was asked about his sons lack of military service. He did not EQUATE working in his campaign with serving in Iraq. He simply defended his sons' choices. Ask Romney, directly, if the two are equivalent, and what do you think he'd say?

Then ask yourself, if it's duplicity that irks you, are you guilty?

Emma | 6:08 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Elaine and Why Reader,
You seem to miss the point completely. You think that people don't like the church because they had their feelings hurt and that the church actually gives information regarding the "meat" of their religion on its website. The fact is neither need be true. I have no issue with the people of the church, but I do have issue with being given milk before meat...in other words I was baited and switched. The church DOES indeed teach that Lucifer and Jesus were brothers not that Lucifer was an "angel" yet that was point blanked lied about. Yet, you think the problem is hurt feelings. It isn't for the most part. Yes, I've been to the temple and was raised LDS, but I prefer facts over doctrinal switcheroos at every turn.
This will probably be removed by Deseret as is typical.

Emma | 6:17 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Simple truth,

Hate the LDS religion, but hating the people because of their religion has you losing out on the opportunity for teaching. My temple going LDS sister, when her daughter had a friend in need, invited him to live in her home until he could get his footing adjusted. He was and is gay. My sister's anti-gay attitude changed dramatically having this young man in her house. He went from being the gay man living in her house to the young man that lived in her home.
Separate the church from its people in your judgment. They don't have to be one in the same just as all gays are not promiscuous and HIV positive.

From a person that church members consider anti.

Reality | 7:00 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

I have been a life long active LDS. The LDS church does some good works. I believe the LDS church can help some people become better people.

However we try to spin it, yes, we are anti-all-other religions. And yes we have some good works, but this in no way should translate into we are the one and only true church.

What is the Reality? Many of us do not know the real history of our church. Many of us only know the very whitewashed versions. Important details many of us do not know. Joseph Smith was guilty of fraud before and after he was the Mormon leader (treasure seeker and Kirtland bank). Smith lied in church services about practicing polygamy (key reason why his 2nd Counselor William Law left the church).

Reality, we need to be more tolerant of other religions.

2 cents on Mitt: If the Olymbic Snowbasin bus fiasco is any indication of Mitt, then Mitt is not a good fit at running the nation. McCain seems to be more level headed, and less flip flopping than Mitt.

Wayne Perry | 7:20 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

We all like to say that religious bigotry is unamerican.
George Washington was president of the second continental conference. Then he was elected the first president of the current federal government. As president he put an end to the traditional pope burning in the army, because he thought that was in keeping with the new constitution.

The point is not that he recieved criticism for this at the time, but the fact that pope burning was a time honored tradition in the army.

Bigotry has always been with us.

Closet Molly Mormon | 7:21 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

I agree that our remarks, columns and opinions matter not. We don't register at all in respect to national politics.
No one really knows where Utah is located on the map. Ask anyone from the East Coast or the West Coast and they will ask "Don't you still practice polygamy?"

Let's not take ourselves too seriously here.

Paul | 7:28 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Querkiness and multiple gods can't be ignored. If a person can be programmed to believe this hogwash, he is suceptible to influence from anyone or anywhere. Do the research and find out the truth.

paula | 7:30 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Romney is a querk and I need say nothing more.

I am Mormon | 7:31 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Go Obama!

James | 7:33 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

So I am up early, finished 15 minutes in 3 Nephi, clicked on the DMN this AM and saw this article which has fueled a record (not official, but it could well be) 505 comments, and I am thinking as I prepare an agenda for an early Sunday AM council meeting . . . WOW this is a pretty good thread following a very good article! I saw no hate here, no real visceral hate! I saw a couple of commenters who were probably smokin' rope and a couple more who just like to see if their uneducated key strokes can pass the DMN review board. But other than that, I am very proud of our Utah . . . no, our NATIONAL mix of ideas and precepts. For the many of my faith who accused others of playing the "whinning" card, I did not see it as that. This thread is and will remain a fair exchange of ideas with little chest thumping and few actual waaambulance sirens. Nice job, all!

Closet Molly Mormon | 7:41 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

YOU CANNOT BE A GOOD MEMBER OF THE CHURCH AND BE A VOTING DEMOCRAT". IF YOU HAVE ANY BEEFS WITH THAT, THEN TAKE IT UP WITH THE ABORTION CLINICS, GO TO EVERY GAY PARADE OR GAY MARRIAGE CEREMONY, TAX THE HELL OUT! YOU ARE OKAY WITH THAT RIGHT? THEN HOW THE HELL CAN YOU BE A GOOD MORMON AND LIVE THE LIE THAT YOU DO? MY RELIGION TELLS ME MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN BUT MY GOVERNMENT PARTY IS OKAY WITH SAME SEX MARRIAGE. WALING, TALKING, BREATHING HIPPOCRATES!

'Quote it' posted this remark, not me...
Is he really serious??
How stupid are we in our state??

1776 | 8:00 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

I remember a Supreme Court nominee being hammered by filibuserting Democrats and many slanted news pieces because he was a Catholic. What is really feared by these parties is conservatism. Oppose gay marriage, abortion, securing the border, the list of blasphemies against left wing political religion could go on.
Like Mormonism or not, complain about our little cultural quirks all you like, when religion becomes an issue for qualifying for public office it is a direct affront to the Constitution. Read it. There is no ambiguity there whatsoever. I railed on this during the obnoxious filibustering episode, and I'll rail on it now. If you don't like my religion, oh well. Life will go on. But don't pretend you're an enlightened new worlder trying to protect the simple minded from us retrograde barbarians by attempting to make the case that a "Mormon" or a Catholic isn't qualified for public office based on their religion. That's fascism in its infancy. I don't care what Obama's religious background is, I don't care what Clinton's gender is, I care what their politics are, and it's upon my disagreements with their version of public policies that I will not vote for them.

Observant | 8:25 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

If you don't want to be viewed as a clown, then you best not join the circus...any circus.

It's the Mormons | 8:28 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Yes the Mormons!!!
How funny!!!

Negative Comments | 8:33 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

As someone stated earlier, all the negative comments on here, repetitions of earlier stuff centuries old, shows that Doug is right.

Would any of you post similar things about muslims, other christian faiths, blacks, indians, etc? I doubt it. That would be "intolerant".

So thank you all for proving Doug's point.

Re: Louis in Moab | 8:37 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Just an FYI, Warren Jeffs is not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Also, don't you think that is a bit narrow-minded to base your opinions of a group of people based on one person (who isn't even affiliated with the Mormons in any way, shape or form)? How sad for you.

Re: Simple Truth | 8:42 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

If you don't like being judged for being gay, then perhaps you ought to not be so hypocritical as to judge Mormons for not supporting your lifestyle. You accuse Mormons of being narrow-minded and judgemental, but what do you think you are if you won't socialize with LDS people whom you have already referred to as "friendly"? Stop loathing in self-pity and feeling persecuted. You might be missing out on great friendships because you can't see past your own bias.

Just a question | 10:03 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

How many of you would vote for a Scientologist or a Wiccan for the president elect? Myself growing up Catholic, practicing Scientology and marrying a Mormon I'm all mixed up. I have met many very kind and caring Mormons. However, I have met just as many self-righteous, bigoted, ignorant Mormons.
Take a close look at yourselves when you cry bigotry. Orson Pratt, one of your more notable Apostles, declared "both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon."
When you are running for public office, president elect none the less, the public at large has a right to know your beliefs. If you hide them and use double speaks to avoid the "tough" questions, people will criticize you and your beliefs.
Make a clear distinction between discrimination and bigotry. Huckabee saying that Mormons aren't Christians isn't discrimination. No matter what the media or Huckabee says about your religion, until you are denied rights endowed to you by this nation and its people, you are not discriminated against, but rather a victim of bigotry.
I do hope Mit loses. He is a poor candidate, and is prone to fair weathering. I'm tired of bandwagon politics.

Anonymous | 10:14 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Dear Moderator -
It is clear that for one reason or the other you refuse to post anything that has to do with cults.
And that is clearly a sign of what the experts call - a sign of cult behavior.
But you hold all the cards, right?
I feel the deepest compassion for you.

To: Louis in Moab | 10:39 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

I guess you aren't sad enough about the Warren Jeffs affair, because if you were, you would also know his church has nothing to do with the LDS Church.

So either you don't care enough, don't comprehend enough, or are lieing to try and add more controversy on this already bogged down opinion slinging page.

Find good in others | 11:23 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Here goes the normal everyday bashing and nit- picking! Everyone has their own an opinion. So why do each of you strike out when someone makes a silly childish remark. Why don't you unstable people out there try reaching out to others instead of condemning one another all the time. I'm talking both sides here! You people remind me of a bunch of 5 year children fighting over a toy and who gets to play with what.

There is good and bad on both sides. Why not try being kind for a change and practice your faith in a righteous matter. If you are a religious person then prove it by what you write. Quit being so critical and placing yourselves above others... God doesn't.

Jack Mormon | 11:29 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Louis R. in Moab - I agree that the entire Warren Jeffs affair was a horrible thing but how could you possibly say that you wont vote for Romney because of that? Jeffs isn't mormon!!! How many times do people have to say that?!?

If you don't want to vote for Romney because you don't agree with his views or his politics, that's fine. That's one of the amazing things about this country. You have the right to vote for who you want. But if the only reason that you don't want to vote for Romney is because of Warren Jeffs, then you are extremely judgmental and blind. Mitt Romney and Warren Jeffs have absolutely NOTHING in common. Jeffs is a sick, deluded man that doesnï¿½t know what a real family is. Romney is a man of great integrity and has fantastic family values.

pot calling the kettle black | 11:29 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

My problem with mormons and propaganda "news" articles like this one, is this...and it's illustrated very well by these some 500 postings here. All you want is to be left alone to believe what you want to believe in, which normally would be fine with me. Until you send kids in ties to my door on a saturday to tell me everything I believe in, or don't believe in is WRONG or an "abomination" as you like to put it. Now if I employed those same tactics to get mormons to change their beliefs, I'm a "hateful bigot with an axe to grind, that's just grasping straws", right? Can mormons honestly not see the problem with that? Like a mormon poster said in this forum "Stop loathing in self-pity and feeling persecuted" you're missing out on many things "because you can't see past your own bias" Surely, The nail has been hit on the head.

Aaron | 11:40 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

This is the most rediculous story i've seen... Comparing women or blacks to people that are brainwashed in a cult is absolutely rediculous... good ol' mormon writers... showing their own ignorance about their own brainwashing

answer for help | 11:44 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

maybe those two young men have some wonderful answers to your honest questions. open your door and your heart and see if what they have to tell you will make you a better person.

ldsgp | 11:50 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

To Louis R in MOab. Thank you for showing what the real problem is, simply people how don't know what they are talking about. These people state false facts and those who are ignorant of the facts believe and then repaet only adding to it. The Warren Jeffs incident is not The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, it is an off shoot and has no connection with the LDS faith or Church. Even that said, these people believe how and what they will. Religion freedon is part of that great document called the constitution. Think about what you said and look into the facts of the church, ask questions of the members for clarification. Thanks for your input.

just my thought | 11:55 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008

utah has traditionaly voted republican. however, do to the religious convictions of mitt romney,the general populus is willing to vote democrate.that tells me the LDS church is willing to do anything to get on the bandwagon and therefore can take credit for his potential for any chance of winning the presidential nomination..yes the LDS church is responsable for his presidential demise

Zip Fiz | 12:10 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

RE: 8:42

You are sour.

Mormon Pres goes to Temple | 12:12 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Image a Mormon President who will only take "Mormon" Secret Service Agents when he goes for a Temple Session?

Kyle v. | 12:14 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Finaly nice to hear someone say it as it is. Hating on Mormons is so hot right now it makes me sick!

Wrong question asked... | 12:17 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

I think the gist of Mr. Robinson's article is correct...Mormons are fair game for criticism and that is hypocritical considering what groups are NOT fair game. Point taken, conceded.

The REALLY IMPORTANT question is WHY do we get critcised so much? Now some of you will say it is because we are "the Lord's true church", etc. In my opinion that does not prove or disprove anything. The reasons for the hatred and mistrust are known, we know them, if we will be honest:

1. Polygamy (and polyandry...JS married 11 married women)
2. Racism (took us until 1978 to realize God loved all his children!)
3. Secrecy about the wealth of the church
4. Mountain Meadows massacre coverup by church authorities (sortof resolved now...)
5. Whitewashing church history (yup, its true, we do this!)
6. Corporate church leadership style (only the wealthy need apply...no humble fishermen of Galilee!)
7. Envy of church growth by still borns
8. Church control/influence on Utah state politics (this is true also)

We could go on and on, but those are some big ones. So, what can we do about any of them? We could start by telling the truth about our history.

Anonymous | 12:49 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

This is a very good article and I totally agree. I am a non mormon living in Utah and I totally agree with everything that was said in the article. It is a shame that they get discriminated against and nothing is ever said about it. Good article!!

Delores DeVictoria | 1:17 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

I was told this week that not only is our religion not Christian, but we are worse than "non-believers". I think the problem comes in the definition of "Christian". I thought Christian was someone who believes in Jesus Christ and strives to follow His teachings, no matter their religion. I guess many people think that the definition of Christian is that you believe according to their church's understanding.

Conservative LDS | 1:25 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

will be disappointed at how liberal Romney's presidential term will be.

Wishing we were all equal | 1:45 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

I am curious, 'Tolerance and Mormons,' why you think that by allowing Harry Reid to go to BYU that does not "affirm our values." Have you ever actually looked at his record? Do you know what he stands for? I'm assuming most of your ill thoughts are because of moral things he is also against. Assuming may be my downfall however.

The problem that I have found among Mormons (and I'm sure MANY other people throughout the country as well) is that they are not actually viewing the candidates resumes, abilities, and qualifications. They are too concerned about being a Mormon to look at the facts. I do feel that things should be equal for us as Mormons as well, however, this article was resentful and haughty...just like the other people are being. We can stand up for what we believe in without attacking those who are against us.

I can say that as a lifelong Mormon Democrat, I have been more ridiculed by Republican-Mormons than any other people for my beliefs. Now it is possible that Mormon Republicans are getting ridiculed a little and they think they are above it. I wish we could ALL be equal.

~Sister Romney

N.T.S. | 1:48 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

The interesting part of this article to me is just a little blip about the Trinity United Church of Christ, which is the church Obama attends. I looked up the church site on the net-checked the mission and pastor of the church. It is a black church with aspirations of political influence. 'Kinda scary a member of this church could become president of the USA since it is a politically driven church, according to its own mission statement. And since I am not black, it excludes me and mine in favor of the black race.

To me, the most important religious questions for a candidate are: In addition to their allegiance to God, is their allegiance to this country and the well-being of ALL this country's citizens? Also, will they take even more of the hard-earned money we have made and redistribute it to their favorite group (carefully read the mission statement of Obama's church.)?

What is new? | 1:55 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

You did not miss any memo that it's now OK. It's been OK (in the minds of the intolerant and ignorant) to disparage member of the LDS church (or do things even worse) ever since the church was re-established by Joseph Smith. Hello!

Also, Mormons are not immune. The Republicans are already wringing their hands over Huckabee because they know he will be a lightening rod for moderates and liberals.

J. Smith | 1:55 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

To Wrong Question asked:
Your views and understanding of Church History are a bit skewed my friend.
Joseph Smith did not take any women away from their husbands and force Polygamy on them

We always Knew God loved all his Children, but it was not until 1978 before God would allow blacks to hold the priesthood. If you look at comments made about several presidents of the Church they were very favorable towards all races.

There was no coverup of Mountain Meadows because the Church had nothing to do with it. Brigham Young did not order the Massacres infact he was sending a messanger down to southern Utah to tell the settlers to let the travelers pass through unharmed. The problem was that a couple idiot members made a very poor judgement call before the letter arrived.

Only wealthy need apply for church leadership?! where do you get this stuff. President Hinckley never was wealthy. He worked for the railroad in his early days and for the Church before being called as an apostle. President Boyd K. Packer was a Seminary Teacher. Last time I checked they don't make alot of money either.

Questions and Answers? | 2:08 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

To Truthmonger 4:24 If the Muslims don't have the truth then why is Satan fighting so hard on all fronts to discredit it??? (I even received an email discrediting Obama because his father was a Muslim)

To Annoymous 4:35 You know a LOT of Mormons who have tatoos? Isn't that against their religion?

To Re Serricks 5:45 Which ward are you in? Can I join?

moap box | 2:18 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Not that PC at the polls matters; moï¿½s are told by THE church how to vote. & As such THE church should be TAXED!

I call it karma: as a non-mo, I relate to the statement re: being rendered as 2nd class. Donï¿½t come to Utah & expect to feel 'normal' or think you can make the transition from 'foreign' to a welcomed local if youï¿½re not mo. Unless youï¿½re convert or a kiss-ass, you MAY not be accepted or even hired for a position if you donï¿½t live according to their stds/expectations/bizarre beliefs & agree to the obligitory brainwashing by their 'church.' Talk about a glass ceiling!

Thinking of buying a home? If youï¿½re a non-mo wanting to purchase in a mo-hood where a mo-realtor reps the seller, forget it.

Moreover, & more disturbingly, this 'religion' all but requires their women to live as 2nd class citizens.

Karma. You get what you give. YOU treat others -apparently- the way you are coming to realize how you DONï¿½T wish to be treated. You should all re-examine your lives, beliefs & WHY you choose to believe a FAR-FETCHED FICTION-BASED religion. ImeanComeONmosEvenRejectDNAevidenceLetALONEcommonSense!

I have NO PROBLEM voicing my disdain & disgust.

can't figure it out | 2:24 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

This is the sort of thing that will continue when a group tells everyone they are part of the In-group and the rest are "an abomination"
Connect the dots.

Closet Molly Mormon | 2:55 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Why have all my comments been deleted?

Quit the Hypocricy | 3:12 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Let's just stop arguing & focus on "loving thy neighbor" & quit the hypocricy! I'm an inactive Utah Mormon. The thing that bothers me is everyone goes to church thinking they're a "good person" and then they go out on the roads & run you down. Just recently a BYU student was struck & killed.

Bookaholic | 3:26 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

This article is spot on! You can trash Mormons with impunity. They are the only religious group it's okay to denigrate and mock, to twist and lie about their beliefs. It's a shameful thing to see go on in our country, a definite step backward. Says more about the small-mindedness and embittered souls of those who deride than those whom they ridicule.

You can be derisive about white men, as well. I dislike them being targeted, too. Why can't people champion the things they like without bashing those who are different? Not very Christlike or American, in my humble opinion!

We in America are like a huge family. Those with successful families know that TOLERANCE GOES A LONG WAY in keeping peace and happiness among the lot of you. There is always good to be seen if we look for it. We'd be wise to cultivate more tolerance in this country and the world. Divisiveness hurts everyone in the end.

a nation at war | 3:48 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Well, we can certainly see how easy it is for religious wars to start, don't we?

what? | 4:44 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Worse than a non-believer? What's wrong with non-believers?

I'm a non-believer. So why the hypocritical bigotry? Somehow it's wrong for me to vote against a Mormon due to that person's religious beliefs, but it's okay to refuse to vote for someone who doesn't hold any supernatural beliefs or doesn't believe the Bible or any religious scripture is the best source of morality.

P-Dog | 4:49 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

I like the title, "Better duck if your a Mormon". Well I am and I won't be ducking anytime soon. It has been the lot of the Lord's followers to endure persecution which could be said of any Christian faith be it Mormon, Catholic, Jewish or otherwise. It is as true today as in the days of old and will most likely become even more prevalent in the days to come. Personally I welcome these adversities because without them we would not be able to truly experience the gift of life we have been given, to exercise the freedoms our country was founded on, and to truly choose for ourselves the path we will take acknowledging and accepting the consequences in doing so.

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