Deseret News | Reader comments: Better duck

Reader comments
Doug Robinson: Better duck — if you're a Mormon

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Getting old | 1:12 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Please, saying that Mormons are the only ones that get persecuted is ridiculous. Especially considering that Mr. Robinson lives in Utah and should realize that Mormons dominate this state and can say/do/legislate whatever they want, i.e. Leavitt injecting the BOM into public policy which surely raises constitutional questions.

Getting old, youre getting old | 1:50 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Yes, your comments are getting old...how about you stick to the topic. This article isnt about Mormons in Utah. Its about Mormons on a national stage...

the way it is | 4:07 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

We make fun of Scientologists just as much. But we donï¿½t make fun of all the things you mentioned. Think about it.

Comments continue below

Steve C | 5:07 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

OK, I've lived outside of Utah my entire life. CA, MI, ID, NM, VA and now CO, and I second everything that is written here. How's that for national? The author didn't say the LDS people are the only ones discrimintated against - only pointed out the surge of bigotry that is incident to Mr. Romney's campaign. To even mention a candidate's religion in a report smacks of prejudice, just like it would be to call someone's candidacy into question for their gender, race, or for a disability.

Robinson�s glass house | 5:14 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Mormons who complain they are the subjects of bigotry are happy to do the same to other religions. There is a point where the religion, or lack thereof, of someone may be relevant. Would Mr. Robinson vote for a Scientologist? For an atheist? To non-Mormons why are these to be considered more strange, and therefore relevant to questions of voting for a celebrant of one or the other, than for Mormon celebrant.

Marky | 5:27 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I think Doug makes a good point. How many "magic underwear" comments have you seen lately? Can you imagine the national uproar if someone in the press called the Jewish yarmulke a "magic beanie" worn to instill the fear of God into a weak-minded people? Not only would they be fired, they would have to spend the next 6 months visiting every major Jewish leader here and in Israel seeking forgiveness.

Jay | 5:51 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I'm surprised you didn't include your faith's two most popular buzz words. On your next column, be sure to include "family values" and "discrimination". As an example, when the Jewish delegation came to SLC, for a second time, in trying to get your faith to stop (baptism & conversion of their faith's deceased). It seems your faith especially focuses on the rich and famous, of "other faiths". Then you attempt to appease them, by saying we have many of the same values. And you wonder why non-mormons disrespect you.

Please open your eyes and ears | 5:54 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

"Getting old" ... listen to yourself! Wow. The leg you are standing on just buckled again. Doug Robinson hit this one out of the park. The haters just hate even more when the truth is spoken. Break out of your little Utah world and read what is being spoken about Romney and Mormons in general THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE COUNTRY. Mormons and Mormonism, without question, have come under consistent attack by the haters.

Carole Knowles | 5:54 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Amen.

Josh Cahoon | 5:55 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

That is one good thing that is coming out of Mitt Romney running for president. These types of issues are being confronted. Political correctness applies to Mormons to. Mormons deserve respect. The things that I have read in the media about the LDS have been cruel attacks. This is unacceptable. Prejudices and double standards with the LDS are being confronted. Members of the LDS church are being given ample opportunities to define themselves and their faith. They can clarify misconceptions, ignorance, and lies. Some Mormons complain that all of this attention is bad and it makes the church look bad. I disagree; it is better to get it out in the open and to deal with it now than later. Mormons are expected to be polite, good people. They are also expected to be bold and to stand up for what they believe and to go and make a difference in the world. No one can or should try to please everyone. As stated earlier, this is an opportunity to defend who we are and to define ourselves instead of allowing others to define us.

Jennifer | 6:02 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I was glad to read this article. I am tired of people on the national stage making comments about my religion, that clearly indicate they do not understand it. I don't understand much about the Muslim religion, but I don't make rude and demeaning comments about it on the news, or even in my workplace or home.
Anyone is free to vote in or out anyone they don't like, and I'm tired of people thinking that my religion runs this state. However, does anyone complain in the bible belt?

Wes | 6:18 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

And what if Mormons are RIGHT? And we'll never know until it's too late!

Anonymous | 6:22 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Great article.

Great Discussion | 6:26 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Mr. Robinson,
Right on! It is time that we members of the LDS faith stand up and be counted. It is absolutely nuts that the mormon thing has entered into the fray. It should not be an issue on the national stage and has hurt one of the brightest political minds of this century. Mr. Romney is by far the most qualified for the Job. I highly recommend that both Mormons and non Mormons ban together and lets get this guy elected.

Re: Getting old | 6:28 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I grew up in Utah and lived half of my adult life there. My experience is that non-Mormons outside of Utah are more tolerant of us than are non-Mormons in Utah (most of whom are inactive Mormons, by the way).

Living as an LDS in Utah is the ultimate exercise in PC. The slightest suggestion that the Church is important and well-intentioned is met with all manner of shrieks from the ACLU, Democrats, Rocky Anderson, the Tribune, and their disciples, who are overrepresented in the press based on their small numbers.

Even outside the state, the article is right on, and I would not have thought so until Mitt Romney started his journey to the White House.

In the spirit of the Golden Rule, let us not react by insulting members of other faiths.

Let us remember that the persecutions we suffer now are very minor as compared to what took place in the 19th century.

Finally, let us remember that the truth is not defined by those who try in vain to tear down our faith.

Wyo Reader | 6:31 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Thank You Doug! I am so tired of being the punching bag that the candidates, the media and the country is jabbing everytime they have an audience! As for "Getting Old" have you seen the little white bibles that the president of the united states sent to all the troops during WWII? I can guarantee you that Romney is not going to send Books of Mormon to the troops. He is a Christian with high moral values that will govern this country with the integrity and honor. We are a country founded on religious tolerance and freedom, except, if you belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. How sad!

true blue | 6:31 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

If we really cared or were insulted a lot by what these people say we could raise a big stink about it a put it to rest. Fact is most of us are above getting offended over it.

O'Donnel is the only person that has ever said anything that really offended me, and I've been told that I'm going to Hell straight to my face.

Mississippi Mormon | 6:32 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Bravo Doug. You hit the nail on the head. For those who think that non-Mormons living in Utah have a difficult experience, try being a Mormon in Mississippi. In Utah the majority is known and the majority will of the people will bend over backwards to respect other religions. Having grown up in Utah and been in LDS Church leadership for most of my adult life I can attest that never has there been one official word spoken against another denomination. We may disagree with doctrine and lifestyles, but we never preach intolerance, even toward those whom we may disagree. While here in Mississippi it is commonplace to have other churches devote their entire church service to denounce the "cult" of Mormonism. A "cult" that pays for the construction of church buildings for those of other faiths (Cathedral of the Madeline, Krishna temple.) A "cult" that pays for the food, clothing and electric bills of disadvantaged individuals regardless of their faith. A "cult" that is usually the first to help in emergency situations and also the last to leave. Regardless of the criticism, I am grateful to belong to such a "cult!"

Ed | 6:32 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Commentaries like this are created to get a reaction mostly from those who have an ax to grind or vent their frustrations, what a waist of time.

RedWhiteandBlue | 6:36 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Bravo!! Excellent article! It's about time we say wait a minute.....no dirt to dig up and nothing about his past escapades so let's get him because of his religion! No, I'm not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, I'm a Baptist, you're right, this isn't about Utah, it's about the nation. We are all in this together! The only time I heard religion used when necessary was when Pres. Bush said, "It wasn't a bunch of Methodists' who blew up the twin towers".

Indiana | 6:38 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Well, I found this article to be refreshing. I found it candid as well. All you did "getting old" was affirm his comments. You seem mean spirited. I hope that is not so.

Why aren't other people's religiosity scrutinized to the same degree as LDS? Fear is a horrible motivator. Love is the best and I am afraid there is far more fear than love and that is unfortunate. If people could put down the fear, angst and preconceived notions long enough to just look and study, they might find something wonderful..

By the way, the Book of Mormon is wonderful and lovely. It stands next to the Bible and I find no problem with anyone studying it ever. I think you would be surprised if you knew how many other people get together to study it some days before they have to go to work. Find something new to worry over... something eternally important, like you.

3 in 1 - Our New Triple | 6:40 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Doug, if Gladys Knight was running we could kill three birds with one stone. We could have the first black women Mormon candidate. Wow. Let's go get her to run and see on which front she is attacked.

Go Mitt Go.

bigbob | 6:48 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I agree with 3 in 1. I think Gladys would make a better president than most of the candidates!

Dawna | 6:49 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Interesting. Religion was one of the reasons this country was founded and continues to be a topic of interest. If negative comments get the attention of people with intellect and causes them to research for the truth then some good has come of it.

SLC Resident | 6:55 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Wow, I wonder why that is? I'll have to ask the non-members, gay couple, or gerrymandered democrats who live in my neighborhood. Maybe they can shed some light on the subject.

Arkansas reader | 6:57 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

OK, I agree with most of the article.

On the other hand, I think commentors should refrain from denigrating Democrats and other groups, as one commentor did.

Mormons and Republicans are not synonymous the last time I checked. Outside of Utah many Mormons are not Republicans. Outside the USA Mormons are of many political persuasions. It's OK to be LDS but not Republican!

found the other "truth" | 6:58 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I'm kinda torn about Romney running because he definitely is showing America and the world how active, true-blue mormons act. They lie, contradict and divulge only those facts and history that mislead the public. I also am enjoying the fact that maybe Mormons in the Mormon belt states (UT, ID & AZ) are realizing and being humbled by the fact that most U.S. citizens have negative attitudes about Mormons. Most mormons in Utah, etc... think that the world has this great respect and belief that Mormons are pro-family, honest, chaste, etc... The arrogance that Romney has shown about his religion and the idea that people will appreciate his belief that his sons did community service by serving missions and now helping his campaign are fulfilling a national servitude is laughable. So if he wants to change his standards, beliefs and ideals every other day, hour, minute...I kinda am enjoying his run because people are wising up to how Mormons really are.

so what? | 7:01 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

While the author has a point, I'm a little tired of everyone talking about this so much. Sure, Mormons may be unfairly discriminated against in some cases. But this has always been the case. As great as our country is, people still criticize what they don't understand. It's human nature and a fact of life. Quit whining about it. If Mitt Romney spent as much time whining about this as the Deseret News does, he would have been out of the race long ago. Grow up man.

john in texas | 7:06 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Doug, thank God you can say what you did and "get away with it." Jesus Christ was rejected so it is no surprize that those who believe in his message today are rejected.

I agree and it is also no surprize that "that other newspaper in the salt lake valley" would get hyper.

My personal plan. I have stuck with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints for almost 64 years. I will continue to do so. As President Hinckley has said, "it will all work out."

Roland | 7:10 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

But Mr Robinson - now is not the time to duck, but a time to stand tall and proud. The Mitt Romney campaign has given me abundant opportunities to proclaim the gospel and explain my beliefs to co-workers, neighbors and across the internet.

I simply don't understand why any of us needs to duck? Are you afraid of the truth or that you might get hurt?

What would President Hinckley do?

Tennessee Mormon | 7:17 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I don't really care what others think. If they choose to be bigoted then so be it. I just remember that Christ and his followers were persecuted for being a 'cult' in their time and that mankind has not changed much since then. Paul talked about how he was grateful for being persecuted for it allowed him to prove his dedication to the Lord. While Mitt Romney may be the best candidate, we know that the more wicked the country becomes, the less likely they will vote for the best candidate. Ultimately, God knows what is best to bring about his plans.

Boo Hoo from back East | 7:18 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

And if you denigrate a racial group, women, and other religions then you're probably a Mormon. I don't think Mormon's are unfairly treated. They just need to drop the attitude that they are persecuted and worthy of some sort of special treatment. Get over yourselves already.

great laugh | 7:20 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I looked up ornery... yes, I didn't know what it meant. So true, so funny! And Doug is right on too. I have lived outside of UT, several states, and experienced the same thing. So some of you might be "sick of hearing it," but frankly, we are sick of experiencing what this article is talking about. So until the bigotry stops, get used to hearin' it!

liberal larry | 7:21 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I've lived in Utah a long time and have Mormon friends, but I can see how many people would be cautious about voting for a mormon. For some reason Mormons tend to be very clannish, maybe it's the amount of time they spend at church, but people may be concerned that we would have Mormons, way over represented in a Romney administration, and we would have stunts like our ex-governor's "morning seminary" sessions, in the oval office.

In defense of Al | 7:22 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Grrreat article!
The only suggestion we'd make is to note that Al Sharpton immediately scheduled a visit to Utah to see and hear first-hand, Mormons and the LDS culture.
Most of the self-appointed experts have never done that.
While Al was here, he broadcast his daily talk show from KSL's studios, and received a call on the air from a Black Latter-day Saint who spoke up for his faith and dispelled the stereotypes.

Voice for Change | 7:24 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I whole-heartedly agree with Mr. Robinson's assertion that Mormon-bashing is done with impunity these days. However, we, as Mormons, need to be pro-active in combating these assertions. Remember, it is the Republican Party that is essentially disqualifying Romney because of his beliefs. This is the same Republican Party that Mormons have supported loyally for years. If we, as Mormons, keep punching that "R" on the ballot blindly year after year, even after Mitt's rejection, why should anyone act any differently? When we start rewarding or punishing with our pocketbooks and with our votes, we will start to be respected. This is what all those groups (Catholics, Jews, African-Americans, etc.) that Mr. Robinson alluded to in the article have done. And this is why you won't hear disparaging remarks regarding these religions, ethnicities or races.

MikeW | 7:25 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Most Americans don't have a problem with funny beliefs. However, we do have a low tolerance for hypocrisy, duplicity and parsing.

Man can become like God? "I don't know that we teach that."

Jesus and Satan are brothers? "Like other Christians, we believe Jesus is the divine Son of God. Satan is a fallen angel."

All men are equal? "Not until 1978."

Service to country? "Service in my campaign is as good as military service." (As noted previously.)

What about polygamy? "It's not doctrinal."

Get the point?

The Church PR department should remember this insightful quote from Mark Twain: "There's a fine line between marketing and larceny."

Don't Worry About It | 7:28 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Thank the Mormon haters. They can kick as hard as they want, but they'll only succeed in kicking Mormonism upstairs, as Brother Brigham said.

BT | 7:30 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Jay - just for the record, while we do believe in performing proxy ordinances on behalf of our ancestors--and they do have to be in your family tree, i.e. we don't target any particular demographic, you can't just go get baptized for anyone who was rich, famous, of a different faith, or whatever strikes you--we also believe that those for whom the ordinance is performed have a choice in the matter. Our job is simply to make sure that everyone, whether in this life or the next, gets an honest opportunity to accept all of what Jesus Christ offered. We don't believe for a moment that just because we do the work for another that they automatically become converted 'mormons'. They can accept or reject the opportunity, wherever they are. Obviously there is a lot more that could be said, but that is the general gist of it. We just want to make sure that when we have to give an accounting before the Judge of all we can honestly say we did our best to make sure everyone had a fair shot.

I feel the pain | 7:37 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I am Hispanic/Mexican American and I am LDS. I have been active Chicano community issues for over forty years, but I have never felt more discrimination from society than I do now for being LDS. It is not politically incorrect to make nasty unfounded comments about Mormons. Shame on those two-faced politicians!

GoodGuyGary | 7:45 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Somebody please send this article to John King of CNN.

Chelsey P. | 7:48 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Thank you for your comments! It is really discouraging to see such a "pc" world so obviously lacking in "pc" when it comes to mormonism. ESPN was just as harsh with Andy Reid in bringing up his son's problems. People need to remember to keep their mouths shut when they really don't know what they're talking about. Do us all a favor.

Jon | 7:49 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Well, while agree that it's ok to make Mormons a punchline...wait, what I mean is that it's perceived as ok, not that it's ok...anyway, while it's perceived to be ok, and therefore it happens (that Mormons are turned into punchlines, verbally attacked for their beliefs, etc.), I don't think it's just Mormons. I'm pretty sure that Jehovah's Witnesses, Amish, Mennonites, and other less mainstream religions can, and probably would, face the same scrutiny and bias. But, that's because they, like Mormons, are less understood and known. Anyway, just wanted to point out that it's not JUST Mormons, but yeah, it's not a good situation that this is going on in the nation.

arc | 7:49 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Great Article. It is amazing the Huck makes comments about the church without really knowing anything about it.

David | 7:50 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Doug Robinson's article is right on target. The only problem I see is that this type of article appears almost exclusively in the Deseret News, which I guess probably has about a 90% LDS readership. In other words, we are just talking to ourselves, preaching to the choir. I'd like to see some of the Latter-day Saints' best pundits and journalists make a stronger effort to reach a wider audience. Still, good thoughts and thank you.

From Texas | 7:55 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Being LDS and having spent my life in Utah, California and Texas I agree 110% with with Mr. Robinson. Those of you who can't stand hearing about this issue are the perfect example of those he refers to.

It's time for more than political correctness in America.. it's time for equality.

KARKA | 7:59 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

MISSISSIPPI MORMON....amen. I have lived in Ohio most of my life, and it is soo true that other religions make it part of their "job" to discuss our religion as a "cult." My brother-in-law used to be the teacher in his church of such lessons. His daughter on the other hand, as she has come to know a little bit more about our relgion has realized and has told us that she doesn't believe what her dad used to teach. Most of our family is LDS, and she said that she sees that what is taught by non-Mormons is totally wrong. She is not LDS, but at least sees the wrong in what other churches are teaching. And as a Mormon I have voted for so many non-Mormons, so what gives?????

Kate | 8:03 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I'm glad he said something because no one else is. Some of you find we Mormons bring it on ourselves which is absolutely ridiculous. I was not a Member for the majority of my life, and what you say is disgraceful and ignorant. Thank you, Mr. Robinson

Paul | 8:03 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

Doug, I think you are beating a dead horse, but it goes both ways. Some people won't vote for Romney solely because he is Mormon, some will vote for him solely because he is Mormon. By the way, wan't it Romney who said he would not have a Muslim sit on his Cabinet were he to be elected President?

DC in DC | 8:05 a.m. Jan. 8, 2008

I do not condone anti-Mormon bigotry(and for the record I NEVER experience bigotry here in DC, it seems to only be in the press or the deep South), but some of this is of our own doing. For years Mormons have happily aligned themselves with the Christian right. NEWSFLASH to those outside the Utah bubble, they HATE us! They have used Mormons politically because they have similar agendas but now that a Mormon wants to become President, they are turning on us. What's ammusing is how surprised so many Mormons now that they are being faced with this reality. This is what happens when you make religion such a big issue in political campaigns. If you're going to judge a candidate by whether he is a "person of faith" be prepared to have it done to you. Its best to simply judge our candidates by what they have accomplished professionally rather than try and play God; judging and prying into their personal morals, faith, and values.

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