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Utah schools warned on test-score reports
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Math Reform | 6:31 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Now that Utah is going to be paying teachers more, and has rejected vouchers can
the people of Utah get something back from the educational community.
Please educational community get serious about education. Please don't toy around anymore with math programs that don't teach math such as what Alpine school district did and continues to do. Please give our kids a good education, one that will prepare them for the future. This is not a game. We don't send our hard earned tax dollars to you for you to play games. This is serious business and all of our futures depend upon the job that you do.
I am happy and in support of teachers getting more pay. But I want a quality education in return.
Please educational community get serious about education. Please don't toy around anymore with math programs that don't teach math such as what Alpine school district did and continues to do. Please give our kids a good education, one that will prepare them for the future. This is not a game. We don't send our hard earned tax dollars to you for you to play games. This is serious business and all of our futures depend upon the job that you do.
I am happy and in support of teachers getting more pay. But I want a quality education in return.
Wes | 6:38 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
This just highlights again the fact that teachers are alone on an education
island.
They are required by faceless Washington officials to accomplish a mandated standard with no support on the other end of the line from the homes of the students. The great majority of teachers really care about their students and work diligently to help the kids learn. When do the parents of the students come into the picture? A teacher has to have willing students who actually want to learn. If there is no support for the teacher in the student's home life, no amount of federal bluster is going to help. It's a two way street and the parents of under achieving students must be held accountable too.
They are required by faceless Washington officials to accomplish a mandated standard with no support on the other end of the line from the homes of the students. The great majority of teachers really care about their students and work diligently to help the kids learn. When do the parents of the students come into the picture? A teacher has to have willing students who actually want to learn. If there is no support for the teacher in the student's home life, no amount of federal bluster is going to help. It's a two way street and the parents of under achieving students must be held accountable too.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 7:02 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
This mandate is a terrible burden to teachers, who now have to spend more time
with paperwork than actual teaching.
And how are teachers in rural areas supposed to get themselves to the point to certify in every single area.
The No Child Left Behind law ranks up there with the Iraq war as one of the worst things the current administration has done.
And how are teachers in rural areas supposed to get themselves to the point to certify in every single area.
The No Child Left Behind law ranks up there with the Iraq war as one of the worst things the current administration has done.
Dave | 7:37 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
All the coments are good, but buerocracy works in the opposite dirrection
Their solution will be to add another layer, perhaps the U.N.
Clare | 7:45 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
As a teacher, I can tell you that it will be impossible to get every child up to
grade level. I have one student who only comes to school when she feels like it
because her mom can't get her out of bed. She even wanted me to come and
do it for her. She has missed or been late to school so many times, it's a
joke. We can't do anything about this problem as the juvenile court for
truancy is backlogged with 450 cases worse than this. I have at least four
other students who are so low in math that can't pass the most easy test
and I have an endorsement specializing in math. I can teach up to pre-calculus.
I just teach fourth grade. It is very discouraging. I'll probably retire
early because of this feeling of being put against impossible odds. I'm
fortunate to teach at an excellent school where many parents are involved and
care about their children. Unfortunately, I can't change a child's
I.Q.
Keith, California | 7:47 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
I retired from full-time teaching in 2000. Even then, the paper work was
overwhelming. When I went back to teach again, the paper work was even more
overwhelming. It was so needless. Real "planning" was difficult.
"Washington" needs to get out of the education business and return it
to the states. (where it once was) Congress can't even run the country
efficiently. Why do we want them running education?
oldman | 7:48 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Teachers boo hoo all the time even after pay raises. If teachers don't like
the standards - find another job - doing the same amount of work - for the same
pay and benefits.
JB | 7:49 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Vouchers may have been a good solution to limit the bureaucracy.
Reply to SJBobkins | 7:56 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Utah has the lowest cost per student in administration. We spend $46 per year
per student on administration, compared to the national average of $146. We
also spend the least percentage on administration at .4%.
This law, has done many things to improve education. Teachers and administrators use research based methods, focus on data driven decisions, and look at all student groups. My MAJOR gripe is that it makes hugely important decisions based on one single test.
If you went to the doctor and he listened to your heart then suggested emergency surgery, wouldn't you want more testing? Or should something so important be based solely on one test? How about a years worth of work in your career evaluated on ONLY one measure? Doesn't seem fair does it.
This law, has done many things to improve education. Teachers and administrators use research based methods, focus on data driven decisions, and look at all student groups. My MAJOR gripe is that it makes hugely important decisions based on one single test.
If you went to the doctor and he listened to your heart then suggested emergency surgery, wouldn't you want more testing? Or should something so important be based solely on one test? How about a years worth of work in your career evaluated on ONLY one measure? Doesn't seem fair does it.
Anonymous | 8:02 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Just another attempt by the Teachers group to cover their own incompetence by
short changimng the children while fattening their pocket book and retirement.
ro | 8:27 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
you anonymous people are cowards not to include your names when bad mouthing
teachers and school district for the work they do with are kids. same on you !!
To Anonymous | 8:36 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Are you joking? See the post above yours as to why this test is a joke. If the
teachers association had as much power as you think they do why is the teacher
salary as low as it is? Why are class sizes so large? And, exactly how does
this article relate to "fattening their pocket book and retirement?"
Not the teachers | 8:41 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Stop blaming the teachers. They have nothing do do with the reporting. The state
is so incompetent that they haven't yet bothered to update last year's
numbers. NCLB is a train wreck. In the Granite School District more than 95
percent of the little boxes NCLB requires received a "Yes" in terms of
meeting the standard, yet numerous schools were denied "passing"
status by not meeting just 1 of 40 criteria.
At Monroe Elementary School, one special ed student missed one too many questions, so the whole school receicved the "did not pass" label, despite a significant overall improvement in the numbers of students meeting the standards.
We need to looking at individual student success and give some consideration that children who do not speak English or who have special need some accommodations in terms of reporting.
Perhaps the news media should stop labeling schools as failing and look at the real issues.
Let's get real about accountability and stop blaming teachers and schools and start helping children and holding parents accountable as well.
At Monroe Elementary School, one special ed student missed one too many questions, so the whole school receicved the "did not pass" label, despite a significant overall improvement in the numbers of students meeting the standards.
We need to looking at individual student success and give some consideration that children who do not speak English or who have special need some accommodations in terms of reporting.
Perhaps the news media should stop labeling schools as failing and look at the real issues.
Let's get real about accountability and stop blaming teachers and schools and start helping children and holding parents accountable as well.
Retired | 8:42 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Anonymous and oldman:
With people like you spouting off, criticizing the work and character of people you don't even know, the shortage of educators will continue to get worse. Who do you think will pick up the slack? How many caring, intelligent people are you encouraging? How many want to sign up for such automatic abuse?
If teaching is such a lucrative, easy career, try it yourselves. I dare you.
With people like you spouting off, criticizing the work and character of people you don't even know, the shortage of educators will continue to get worse. Who do you think will pick up the slack? How many caring, intelligent people are you encouraging? How many want to sign up for such automatic abuse?
If teaching is such a lucrative, easy career, try it yourselves. I dare you.
To to anonymous | 8:52 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Because the teachers' union keeps fighting any attempt to pay and treat
teachers like professionals...insisting that teachers remain mired in a chop
shop socialistic pay schedule that rewards poor teachers and punishes good ones
Parent! | 9:00 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
You want teachers to do a better job? You want children to learn so they can
compete with our foreign counterparts? You want to ensure all kids reach their
full potential? Well it aint going to happen by meeting some criteria or by
threats of closure. It starts with letting teachers teach! By giving them the
authority to teach without threats of job loss or lawsuits. It starts with us
as parents taking responsibility and teaching our children to respect authority.
I see so many kids doing nothing, and having the attitude I don't have
too. And when a teacher trys to push that student they are met with "my
parents will sue you" or parents who show up and pull a student from a
class. It all starts at home...not with more federal or state mandates and
threats.
privateschool | 9:10 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Ah, wasn't the death of the voucher proposals supposed to stop all of these
educational evils?
Nothing new here actually; read Freakonomics for a good discussion of teacher conduct surrounding standardized testing and grading.
Nothing new here actually; read Freakonomics for a good discussion of teacher conduct surrounding standardized testing and grading.
sagecreek mom | 9:33 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
my children go to a great school with wonderful, imaginative teachers who care.
I agree that the buck starts and stops at home. Either we teach obedience and
respect and we take the TIME to read and help them with their math and other
subjects or the teachers waste valuable time. Children may sometimes be held
back so that they are better prepared and not just drifting. By the end my
children will go further than I. Parents be involved. Go teachers and thank
you for your efforts.
no name | 9:51 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
If government can spend money on war, why can't they spend money on
education and pay raise for teachers?
It makes you look back and think, what was "wrong" in the past that made us think we were not doing a good job?
It makes you look back and think, what was "wrong" in the past that made us think we were not doing a good job?
Pay raise for teachers | 10:20 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Why is the solution to every ill in the school system, "A pay raise for
teachers"?
Is teacher pay the reason some children are underperforming?
Are teachers saying they are holding back and not teaching their best until they get a pay raise?
I tend to agree teachers should be paid more, but using every education issue as rational for a teacher pay raise just raises the ire of those who believe pay raises should be based on improved performance.
In most professions the boss says... As your skills improve and you perform better I will pay you more. In teaching is seems the outlook is... I can't do any better until you pay me more. It just seems backward to me.
I also agree that a few students under-performing is not neccesarily a reflection on our teachers. A student can choose not to succeed. But the administration shouldn't try to hide this by averaging test scores. That just smells like a cover-up.
Is teacher pay the reason some children are underperforming?
Are teachers saying they are holding back and not teaching their best until they get a pay raise?
I tend to agree teachers should be paid more, but using every education issue as rational for a teacher pay raise just raises the ire of those who believe pay raises should be based on improved performance.
In most professions the boss says... As your skills improve and you perform better I will pay you more. In teaching is seems the outlook is... I can't do any better until you pay me more. It just seems backward to me.
I also agree that a few students under-performing is not neccesarily a reflection on our teachers. A student can choose not to succeed. But the administration shouldn't try to hide this by averaging test scores. That just smells like a cover-up.
$100,000 | 11:09 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
That is what it would take to get me into one of these classes full of the whiny
"old guy" parents...
Educator | 11:12 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
I, like Clare, have students that will only come to school at the 20th day, when
they are in danger of being booted out of the system. They'll sit in
class, sleep and generally show no interest, even when the class is doing great
cooperative learning activities. I currently teach 130 students, and cannot
possibly go to each students' home to chek on their personal situations. We
cannot place all blame on teachers, rather, the students and parents also need
to be held responsible.
Dean of Ed. | 11:36 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
NCLB is a good program because it brought to light a serious problem which
exists in all sectors of our society--the weak and underpriveleged are
overlooked until an authority figure makes us take notice of them. Before NCLB
it was easy for me to fail a student and move him/her onto the next grade
without any thought. After NCLB, I wouldn't think of letting a student
miss an educational opportunity. I wouldn't think of letting an at-risk
student move through my class without trying my best to teach that student how
to at least read. No matter how much this program hurts--and believe me it
does--it is an important part of current education practice because ultimately,
after all the paperwork and headaches, it aims to protect those who cannot
protect themselves. I worry about averaging scores for students because it puts
the schools and the students who scores were averaged in a bigger hole for the
following year.
excell use it | 11:41 a.m. Jan. 7, 2008
we as a state , have the largest class rooms, learning materials are inadequate,
many teachers are paying out of pocket for the most basic in asystem that has
huge families leading to this strain. It is in shambles when teachers pay so
much to go to college yet have to work two jobs just to make it with there own
family ..how hipocritical..no child left behind ..what about the teacher's
child due to poor funding being left behind because teacher has to work second
job? The lack of a good education comes back in many forms and cost to the
communities, such as opportunities lost, social problems which will always hurt
in social-eco issues.PAY NOW OR PAY LATER..I HAVE TOLD MY SON TO GO TEACH ELSE
WHERE..WHERE THE JOB IS HELD AND TREATED IN HIGHER ESTEEM ..HOW SAD.
John | 12:25 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
NCLB = Cater the Lowest Common Denominator and this hurts the kids that can
really progress at a faster pace. This is one reason we no longer live in Utah.
The schools there have many problems, especially with ESL folks. It hurts the
kids that speak English and have been taught English at home even if their
native tongue is another language. Our kids who speak two languages are two or
three grades ahead in math, language and reading...but have to
wait...wait...wait for the others to catch up {or is it Ketchup}.
Anonymous | 12:36 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Maybe it is time to re-examine the concept of tenure.
High School Math Teacher | 12:50 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
I tend to agree with Dean of Ed. in some regards. I think minority and special
groups do need extra attention, and NCLB is one attempt to ensure that
attention. However, causing a whole school to FAIL and be reported in the media
as a FAILING school, regardless of the multitudes of hard working teachers,
parents, administrators, AND STUDENTS, seems unfair to me. I wish there was some
way to quantify the "level" of the failure... How close was the school
to passing? Which subgroup was the reason for not passing? These are the
questions that need to be investigated and reported by the media; These are the
areas that need the most attention and help, rather than resulting in punishment
for the whole school.
Mark | 12:50 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Yes, Anonymous it is time to reexamine the concept of tenure and the fact that
in my district it doesn't exist. Poor teachers CAN be fired, and I've
seen terminations occur in my district.
Annie | 12:57 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Will we ever stop focusing on the red tape, money, pay raises, unions, etc. and
get to the bottom of education - the children! In all of the hubub that we as
adults like to talk about we too often forget that it is the individual children
who need to be educated, the children who need to be excited to get up in the
morning and go to school! Maybe kids are not passing exams, showing up to
class, etc. because they are simply not excited about learning because rather
than focusing on the child we are too concerned about teachers, principals,
counselors, school nurses and the bloody union! If we could for once focus on
the children and instill in them the love of learning, all the problems we now
have with education would disappear.
Annie | 1:10 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
never taught a day in your life..get in the classroom then access!
Middle School Teacher | 1:23 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
I qualify for welfare, but I don't take it and I never will. To "Pay
raise for teachers", I've never once heard a teacher blame lack of
efficacy on insufficient pay. Would a wage equal to our non-educator peers
equate to schools being able to retain better talent in the teaching positions?
Of course! You'd have to be stupid and naive to believe otherwise.
What would best serve my students, though, in my opinion? Reducing the class size. I have had 37 students per class this year. If I spent one minute speaking to each student, I'd have 8 minutes left for classroom instruction. If I assign a one page paper to write, I have over 200 pages to read and grade. 2 pages = over 400 pages for me. It's overwhelming and I literally do not have enough hours in the day to really help my students become better writers. Even if I ignore my family and their needs all night, I still don't have time to be the best teacher that I can be for my students.
What would best serve my students, though, in my opinion? Reducing the class size. I have had 37 students per class this year. If I spent one minute speaking to each student, I'd have 8 minutes left for classroom instruction. If I assign a one page paper to write, I have over 200 pages to read and grade. 2 pages = over 400 pages for me. It's overwhelming and I literally do not have enough hours in the day to really help my students become better writers. Even if I ignore my family and their needs all night, I still don't have time to be the best teacher that I can be for my students.
honey comb | 1:23 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Annie:
Did you miss the point in these blogs? What are you doing to make sure your "individual children" are "excited about learning?" There are a lot of dedicated teachers to "individual children", probably more than you know.....we are not all cynics either. But how long should we vest our interest, heart, and work into "individual children" before we realize we needs parents to bridge the gap. Should money be an issue? I am so tired of hearing about foreign education status and teachers being contrasted in this state, but yet we can't seem to bring up contrasting state salary scales because it is irrelevant? There is more tied to the "fat wallet" thinking of individuals......professional development is not free. In order to keep us accountable for developing these "individual children" we must find ways to deal with failing parents and unreachable expectations.
Did you miss the point in these blogs? What are you doing to make sure your "individual children" are "excited about learning?" There are a lot of dedicated teachers to "individual children", probably more than you know.....we are not all cynics either. But how long should we vest our interest, heart, and work into "individual children" before we realize we needs parents to bridge the gap. Should money be an issue? I am so tired of hearing about foreign education status and teachers being contrasted in this state, but yet we can't seem to bring up contrasting state salary scales because it is irrelevant? There is more tied to the "fat wallet" thinking of individuals......professional development is not free. In order to keep us accountable for developing these "individual children" we must find ways to deal with failing parents and unreachable expectations.
Retired | 1:27 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
To Dean of Ed.--
What could be good about a program that requires non English speaking students to take tests in English?
What could be good about requiring non reading special ed students to take reading tests? Oh, these test are given at the students own age and grade level! What do they not understand about "Special Education"?
What is good about children being set up to fail and then pointing the finger of shame when they do so?
Give me a break!
What could be good about a program that requires non English speaking students to take tests in English?
What could be good about requiring non reading special ed students to take reading tests? Oh, these test are given at the students own age and grade level! What do they not understand about "Special Education"?
What is good about children being set up to fail and then pointing the finger of shame when they do so?
Give me a break!
Federal Government Has No Role | 2:04 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
To begin with, the U.S. Dept. of Education is an unconstitutional entity, and
the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states that those powers not
provided to the federal government in the Constitution are reserved to the
States. Hence, the State of Utah should return all federal money and coordinate
with other states and tell the federal government that NCLB is unconsitutional.
Then the State of Utah will determine its own standards with the input from the teachers, parents, colleges, and business community.
Then the State of Utah will determine its own standards with the input from the teachers, parents, colleges, and business community.
Anonymous | 4:28 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Yah, get the federal government out of the education business so we can go back
to paying teachers peanuts and packing the classrooms full of kids, 50 at a
time! While we are at it, we should eliminate the civil rights act, the united
nations, the environmental protection act, and the constitution provisions of
separation of church and state. Yah, lets do it the Utah way...English only...
To: Anonymous | 4:50 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
Funny, I haven't heard teachers telling me that they are highly paid thanks
to the federal government. That's alot of dollars. And, there is no
federal law limiting class size, nor should there be. Also, the environmental
protection act, no the agency, is a law that should only have been enacted by
each state. The civil rights act of 1964 pertains to the 14th amendment,
therefore it was constitutionally amended. Separation of church from state is
not in the Constitution, but rather was an Interpretaion by the liberal Burger
court. Again, it is not in the Constitution, but rather law based on a partisan
interpretation such as Roe v. Wade. Therefore, as i previously stated, the
federal dept. of education is an agency that is unconsitutional as it violates
the 10th Amendment. Furthermore, the Founders viewed education as a local matter
as they did not want a nationalized education system that historically drives
fascism/marxists agendas.
In conclusion, I'll take the American educational system before Jimmy Carter over the current system mandated by the federal government any day, 50 students and all.
According to Gov. Richardson, the US is ranked 29th in science and math.
In conclusion, I'll take the American educational system before Jimmy Carter over the current system mandated by the federal government any day, 50 students and all.
According to Gov. Richardson, the US is ranked 29th in science and math.
PRIVATE SCHOOLS | 9:49 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
ARE LOOKING BETTER.
Park/Harrington shell game?? | 10:35 p.m. Jan. 7, 2008
So, let me get this straight... Utah accepts $$$ millions from the federal
government each year to educate at risk students. Utah gets to write the rules
on how they want to evaluate the AYP results. Utah decides to make the
districts recalulate their scores FOUR times in the current school year. Utah
gets caught using a method that was not outlined in the workbook that UTAH
wrote. The feds remind Utah that the terms for accepting the money was
compliance with the rules Utah wrote. Utah does not comply and Park/Harrington
turn it into a "get the federal government out of our local issues
game?" Didn't Utah invite the federal government into the discussion
when they accepted the money and agreed to measure student progress? I am
offended by the lack of leadership from the state office. The districts across
the state are spending hundreds of hours re-calculating their scores according
to the "rules of the day" as outlined by the state office. The
districts are trying to do the right thing. Davis and Salt Lake should be
complimented on their integrity.
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Every local area has to have a full lineup of administrators, add in all the layer of state education bureaucrats all of which make much more than the "ordinary" teacher" who's the grunt doing all the important work.
Whatever happened to the idea of eliminating the burdensome and out of touch Federal Dept. of Education formed by Jimmy Carter to make it look as if he was doing education a big favor, when actually we did much better before it was formed? I don't have an exact figure but I've heard that administration costs take .68 cents out of every dollar spent on education, leaving .32 cents, by my Maeser Elementary School (Provo) math sense to really teach.
I hope we can wake up and realize that there is a direct correlation between underfunding teachers and over-funding the administration resulting in huge class sizes and kids who are scared to death of math and can't read.
This news item seems to point out how out of control the present system seems to be.