Deseret News | Reader comments: UTA is moving forward with rail

Reader comments
UTA is moving forward with rail

Jason | 7:42 a.m. Dec. 24, 2007

I for one am so happy that UTA is moving forward to this. The mayor of Taylorsville really needs to get on the bandwagon. More roads will never solve the east-west travel problems. Only add to them. It has been proven time and time again (Bangerter, I-215, etc.) that more roads only create more traffic congestion. I just do not understand why the naysayers can't get their heads around this fact. They live in the past and refuse to change. I have lived out of state where commuter rail is a vibrant part of the community. Where the same type of reluctance came when rail was being built, but once it came, it was welcomed with open arms. And is used by a vast majority of the population. I applaud UTA for this project!

Ken Baguley | 8:32 a.m. Dec. 24, 2007

I agree that we need more East/West and North/South secondary highways. Even South Salt Lake Needs improved North/South highways. Shall we continue?...Utah County is deprived of North/South highways...Highways 198 and 6 need to be expanded to 4 lanes or at least make the center lane a passing lane for Sloooooow movers who are aplenty...They are creators of ROAD RAGE!

jmdspk | 9:07 a.m. Dec. 24, 2007

I was on the floor laughing with the statement from Taylorsville mayor Wall. We need a more balanced approach to transportation? The highway men have dominated transportation for the last 70 years and you see were that go us.

Were are these new roads supposed to be built? Are they going to eminent domain thousands of tax producing properties to build roads that do not create tax dollars?

Comments continue below

D G | 9:19 a.m. Dec. 24, 2007

Mayor Wall needs to understand that Trax already affects Taylorsville even if it does not run through the city. Myself and many others catch buses everyday that take us to the North/South light rail line, which we use to get to work in Sandy, South Salt Lake, Salt Lake City, and the University of Utah. When the West Valley light rail begins operating, even more of us will move in that direction to use Trax. We could hop into our cars and drive east to get to Trax and west to get home, but we choose to ride public transportation, thus alleviating even more congestion on the roads.

Lew Jeppson | 9:27 a.m. Dec. 24, 2007

The world oil and environmental situation requires that no more major freeway construction projects be undertaken. Period. I would prefer that the current UTA projects be in the private sector, but Federal intrusion into the private transporation market in the late 40's and 50's ended all of that. So now, it should be full speed ahead with these UTA projects. Considering a counterfactual, however, one cannot help but wonder how a still surviving Bamberger would stack up against UTA. Quite well, I think.

Michael T. Packard | 10:30 a.m. Dec. 24, 2007

It is less than a week since UTA admitted to protracted intentional incompetence, misleading the public about TRAX ridership, and deceptions about the quality of their data processes to help grab $7 billion in tax hikes, mostly for rails. Yet, you cheer UTA incompetence and deception.

UTA incompetence and deception in these multibillion-dollar matters is the biggest story of the year. Instead of pursuing the stories behind this scam, the DMN wears their "UTA Propaganda Team" hat. The DMN has repeatedly reported on this story, with lots of UTA spin. Just what we need to sort this out, more transit spin.

The 58,000 TRAX riders claim, that we heard so often, never happened!

The entire foundation of all transit and transportation planning is totally undermined by these belated revelations!

The tax hike was fraud, the modeling for the WFRC and MAG Long Range Plans is wrong, and the prioritization of rails over roads was wrong.

TRAX has no growth rate...only what they get from opening new lines, with transfers.

UTA takes less than 1% of car trips off the roads.

Only innumerate, delusional/visionary, elitists would gamble over $16 billion car-user tax dollars on UTA with that foundation.

Utah uber alles!

highway61 | 10:31 a.m. Dec. 24, 2007

Mass transportation makes it possible for a metropolitan area to grow in a healthy way. The perspective people need to take is the same they take with highways: namely, that it's never going to directly "pay for itself," but improves everyone's quality of life by easing traffic and reducing pollution. This is a very good move by the state.

Ricky Clinch - Minnesota | 11:15 a.m. Dec. 24, 2007

Pure science fiction! What you see in Utah right now is the same garbage that we see all over the country. A bunch of smug utopians who opt for science fiction over science fact. I wonder if Randy would be kind enough to tell us all what metro area he is talking about that light rail work and has solved the traffic problem, because it isn't on this planet.
I have lived in Japan and spent time in Europe. They have trains there, with millions of people riding them. And they are privately run (the ones that run well that is...). When the expenses go up, so do the rates. They also commercialize the heck out of the place. Oh, and they know how to sell tickets. Whoever came up with the ticket vending system for light rail in this country must have never seen a good system that actually works. In Japan they sell thousands of tickets a minute. You couldn't get a thousand an hour out of these horrible machines!
Minnesota is in the same spot as most other metro areas. I will support light rail the day it pays its own way! $5 one way?

Tammi Diaz | 11:27 a.m. Dec. 24, 2007

The Destruction of the Bus System
The Light Rail is moving full speed ahead, the destructruction of bus system has assumed alarming proportions. There have been many components to this
process of destruction. A Good Bus System Just Got Better, it Hurry up and Wait for "Transit Dependent."
UTA needs to start dealing with the growth in Salt
Lake County and expansion of the Bus System. UTA needs to start working with cities on barrier free, benches and shelters. UTA is taking a chance of losing the Sales Tax Money. Google Transit Follies 5, UTA bus Routes changes. UTA only want service the "Choice Rider".

Anonymous | 1:24 p.m. Dec. 24, 2007

If you highway mongers insist on paving over every last square inch of our state, funding Mideastern oil lords along the way that is your choice.

The only foolish thing UTA has done is not finish the airport line sooner. It is a line that will serve everyone, from Taylorsville to Draper snobs who have no reason to take TRAX anyway.

UTA FRAUD | 2:22 p.m. Dec. 24, 2007

Michael T. Packard is right. The ridership of all UTA systems has'nt and won't in the future be enough to eliminate or even be a drop in the bucket in reducing air polution in our area. The topography in our area causes the smog.

A DOT person in the know told me several years ago the number of UTA passengers was at most 25000. Now we find out from UTA it is even less.

More roads not less are needed for cars. Stop using tax dollars to subsidize UTA ridership and stop funding more rail. We are not like other cities who's rail and busses run 24/7. Utah will never allow that so why waste the money.

jmdspk | 3:27 p.m. Dec. 24, 2007

Well we heard from Michael Packard and probably Drew Chamberlain (UTA Fraud) and we know they have been blathering the same thing for years.

First the dude in Minnesota. Sure you want transit to pay its full cost but is ok so long as your highways, home, developments, and parking all remain subsidized.

Once again UTA Fraud lies with his numbers. He says a "number of years ago someone told me" that UTA passengers were at 25000. 25000 of what? He doesn't even say.

TRAX has worked, people are using it.

jmdspk | 3:47 p.m. Dec. 24, 2007

Once again we hear from the anti-transit minority like Michael Packard and Drew Chamberlain, Oh I mean UTA Fraud.

First to the guy from Minnesota. I guess it is ok for your development, parking, highways, big box retailers to be subsidized but because you are against transit you think it should pay for itself.

To Michael Packard: Get your facts straight, oh wait that would eliminate your argument. After all, how could all of TRAX ridership be from transfers when it carries 2/3rds the number of riders of the entire UTA bus system in all five counties not counting the numbers from last year?

Plus you like all the highway lobbyist always throw out the red herring of total trips by transit. Compared to what? Compared to all travel in the area? Not a very fair assessment when there is only two TRAX lines and hundreds of miles of concrete. How about comparing in the corridor, oh thats right it would look too good for TRAX.

To UTA fraud: you throw out numbers from someone "in the know" right, like anyone would respect that. Even the revised numbers are substantially above the 25,000 range so numbers from?

jmdspk | 3:50 p.m. Dec. 24, 2007

Tammy I am sorry to tell you but the problem with the bus system is not TRAX but is the bus system itself. It cost 10 times more per passenger mile (from UTA figures) to transport someone on the bus than it does TRAX.
Now if UTA would make the bus more marketable then cost will go down because it would have more riders.
You attack UTA for trying to get "choice riders". Without choice riders bus service would be cut even more. It is the choice riders that are needed to pay for additional service in transit dependent areas.

Michael T. Packard | 9:43 p.m. Dec. 24, 2007

You, jmdspk, are either one of the UTA hangers-on or one of the innumerate fellow travelers. You must like the diet of lies UTA has dished up. Why else would you defend it?

Ridership on the Sandy Line, as given to me by UTA's David Bennett, averaged out to about 26,000 a day from last February till September.

Their propaganda department, especially John Inglish, are spinning this several ways to confuse the issues. That is also why they delayed this till just before Christmas. It is an old Washington/Beltway gimmick to undermine the press and public opinion.

They conned Utah and Salt Lake counties into billions in tax hikes, based on false data and deception.

About the bus system...

Between 1986 and 1996, the UTA bus system had low cost, slow growth in cost per mile and a ridership growth rate of 3.4% as shown in the QGET databook. Since then, UTA bus cost per mile has grown to the highest in America, (In their 2005 annual report). Since TRAX, the bus has leveled off at 21.5 million; that is 3 million shy of the 1996 ridership.

TRAX damaged the bus system.

TheTruth | 8:53 a.m. Dec. 26, 2007

Michael T. Packard,

Apparently, since you actually study the issue and do not simply read some local newspaper propaganda, you must be an idiot. That's what I'm getting from all the other commentators anyway. We need more people like you who actually try to understand each issue in its entirety before throwing out some ill-conceived, trashy argument. Keep up the good work and thanks for being an informed American!

Many of you keep pointing out how these lines save on oil costs and help the environment. Have any of you actually read into urban sprawl (associates with more miles traveled) or an analysis of the oil costs associated with pushing such large chunks of metal? Busses are much cheaper to produce, use less fuel per passenger (when full), and don't run on your dreaded coal-fired power plant electricity (many of which are pretty clean polluters these days). Why not first reading and then making an intelligent remark next time instead of buying into and regurgitating the DesNewsï¿½ propaganda?

Oh, and we could all live within walking or biking distance of work. That would solve the problem and our current roads would become an over kill. Who's doing this?

jmdspk | 9:16 a.m. Dec. 26, 2007

I love how The Truth says that Packard is the only person telling the truth. Apparently because Packard spouts of the propaganda of the Heartland Institute who gets most of its funding from Wal-Mart and the Oil Companies he must be talking the truth (facts about funding come from their published tax forms).

This is not the truth just the facts manipulated to one side.

Derek | 10:36 a.m. Dec. 26, 2007

Nicole,

Nice job adding relevant links at the end of the article. For whatever reason, it seems that too many on-line news outlets are afraid to link off their own site.

KRaxe50 | 1:06 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007

Someone at UDOT "in the know"? Surely you jest...UTA and UDOT hardly even talk to each other let alone share numbers. UDOT doesn't care in the slightet about mass transit. Their job is to build roads and clean streets. I am NOT knocking what they do. Mass transit is not their job!

Packard...how about implementing this old saying. "It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than open your mouth and prove them right" Allot of us can quote statistics and mindless nonsense. You obviously have an agenda here. You hate UTA. GOT IT! I am not sure that you get the fact the there are thousands of people who have no way to get to work, the doctor, get food. Do they just find the nearest boy/girl scout to run their lives for them? Low income people DON'T have a choice! Got it?

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