Reader comments
Little gain on class sizes
46 comments | Read story
Jim Billingsley | 5:51 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Unfortunately, Utahns missed a great opportunity to remedy this problem when
they let the UEA (which doesn't give a hoot about educating children)
hoodwink them into defeating the parental choice referendum.
oldman | 6:32 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Fee Waivers are another factor that influences the cost of education. There are
High Schools in the Granite School District where the majority of the Student
Body is on "Fee Waivers." In other words, these students, because of
their economic status get a "free" education... play on sports team
"free". Someone has to absorb those costs. Yes, the schools are
reimbursed for each student on a fee waiver but only at 60%. The school has to
come up with the rest of the money... multiply this over the number of students
( half of a studentbody) on a fee waiver and you find that many programs are not
being funded properly.
Comments continue below
liberal larrry | 6:45 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Homer, you are right about the role of athletics in high schools. It would be
interesting to find out how much of the average school's resources are
spent on coaches, travel etc.
Show me the $$$ | 7:03 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
If the people of Utah want better education, then we need to spend the money to
make it happen. It really is that simple. Gov. Huntsman should be worrying
about this instead of trying to save the world from global warming.
Steven Jarvis | 7:03 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Homer,
Having subbed for multiple Football coaches I have never seen one that had more than the standard one period of preparation. They teach gym classes for the most part, sometimes Driver's ed and one even had half his periods for English classes.
Bill,
Thank goodness we the people defeated that awful piece of garbage. The Parents Choice Act was a sham document that as it progressed would have helped the fewest number of children, most of which would be the ones that needed the least assistance. Eventually the legislature would come back and tie the funding to Education dollars and the Act would have harmed Public Ed. This is Utah after all, and that is how the government here acts.
Legislators,
It should have made sense that underfunding the system for two decades would mean that the band-aid approach of class size reduction wasn't going to work. Costs have gone up well beyond the monies put into it and we are woefully behind. Thanks for the effort to start funding salaries. We'll hopefully get to a living wage at some point. What has been done is appreciated, just not the complete job.
Having subbed for multiple Football coaches I have never seen one that had more than the standard one period of preparation. They teach gym classes for the most part, sometimes Driver's ed and one even had half his periods for English classes.
Bill,
Thank goodness we the people defeated that awful piece of garbage. The Parents Choice Act was a sham document that as it progressed would have helped the fewest number of children, most of which would be the ones that needed the least assistance. Eventually the legislature would come back and tie the funding to Education dollars and the Act would have harmed Public Ed. This is Utah after all, and that is how the government here acts.
Legislators,
It should have made sense that underfunding the system for two decades would mean that the band-aid approach of class size reduction wasn't going to work. Costs have gone up well beyond the monies put into it and we are woefully behind. Thanks for the effort to start funding salaries. We'll hopefully get to a living wage at some point. What has been done is appreciated, just not the complete job.
Pat | 7:14 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
We talk about "class size" but what's really reflected in the
report is "pupil-teacher ratio", the number of students in
relationship to the number of certificated teachers. Many teachers don't
have a classroom of students assigned specifically to them, like special
education teachers, counselors, or reading specialists. That means that the
ACTUAL number of students in any given classroom is even higher than what is
reported. The only way to lower the number is to hire more teachers and change
the ratio. We can't tackle it all at once, but we don't build every
road in the same year, or retrofit every building at once either. It takes a
commitment to make long term incremental efforts to do more than fund the status
quo. Let's start with the public demanding that elected leaders be
responsive and responsible. They're talking tax cuts already, cuts that
will come from public education funding. It's an election year and giving
citizens a token tax cut (and corporations more ways to avoid paying their fair
share)guarantees that our children will never know the benefits of smaller class
sizes and well paid, successful teachers.
It's not a budget surplus until our state's needs are met.
It's not a budget surplus until our state's needs are met.
Walkon | 7:16 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
The answer is simple but not easy. End tax breaks for having kids need to end.
And better auditing of administrators. They pretty much such up all the cash
they can and send the rest downstairs. The UEA bashing is just sour grapes by
the uninformed.
Be Responsible | 7:24 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Be responsible and quit having so many kids unless you are willing to pay more
for them.
What? | 7:27 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
I don't know what the author of this article is talking about. The money
was to raise salaries because of the streams of teachers leaving the state. It
specifically stated that teachers were to get a $2500 raise and a one time bonus
of $1000. How can anyone expect smaller classes from that?
Anonymous | 7:57 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Want better education for the students? BHan the teachers unions. Their function
is to line their own and teachers pockets, not educate students.
Steve Jarvis you hit the nail | 8:00 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
All reasons you stated are true.
In our district, enrollment was projected to go down. The school board planned accordingly. We even closed some schools to save the tax payers money. Then the immigration went crazy and class sizes exploded! No one could plan for that. We now have schools that are 40% ESL and 70% free or reduced lunch.
Now we are looking at class sizes of 32 - 35 with no relief in sight. During that time benefits have been cut to the bare bones. Teacher morale is at an all time low.
So there are two possible solutions. Fix immigration or put a whole lot more money into the schools.
Since no one seems to care about immigration, I hope the money is on its way.
In our district, enrollment was projected to go down. The school board planned accordingly. We even closed some schools to save the tax payers money. Then the immigration went crazy and class sizes exploded! No one could plan for that. We now have schools that are 40% ESL and 70% free or reduced lunch.
Now we are looking at class sizes of 32 - 35 with no relief in sight. During that time benefits have been cut to the bare bones. Teacher morale is at an all time low.
So there are two possible solutions. Fix immigration or put a whole lot more money into the schools.
Since no one seems to care about immigration, I hope the money is on its way.
To anonymous | 8:07 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Actually anonymous, I believe you can take out lining teachers pockets from the
function of the teachers' union...they don't even do that. Am I right
that in addition to pointing out the horrible fiscal discipline in a number of
school districts who aren't even reporting how the public's money is
being spent, that the article is also saying that $700 million in money aimed at
reducing class size resulted in hiring a net of only 2 teachers? That's a
bad investment, Jr.
Dave | 8:23 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
This is the result of mixing politicians and unchecked unions, and a very
sympathetic media (like Deseret News) who have yet to find a tax they don't
like.
Rest assured, they'll all be back asking for more money and, with tears in our eyes, we'll plead with the legislature to take more from us, the gullible masses. (These are the same masses stirred up in anger as the costs of gas and medical care go up, but have no problem with increased government profiteering.)
In business, this is called misappropriation of funds, or fraud. Beyond that, I call it lunacy.
Rest assured, they'll all be back asking for more money and, with tears in our eyes, we'll plead with the legislature to take more from us, the gullible masses. (These are the same masses stirred up in anger as the costs of gas and medical care go up, but have no problem with increased government profiteering.)
In business, this is called misappropriation of funds, or fraud. Beyond that, I call it lunacy.
Agit8r | 8:27 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
So, Utah is at the bottom of spending per pupil, but, we rate high on national
tests. Maybe the other states need to spend less on education. It may improve
their scores and our position in the list. :)
teacher4vr | 9:05 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Dave - You are obviously clueless about the teacher's associations in Utah.
They are not "unchecked unions" in this state. Get your facts right
before you go off on a rant. They actually do a lot to help develop good
teaching practices and provide for the development of a sound profession.
Because you are apparently easily swayed by rhetoric, you think of NEA, UEA,
etc. as something other then they are - professional organizations that offer a
myriad of benefits to members, one of which is negotiation of contracts which
includes things like class size, working conditions, benefits, and salaries. Is
that so wrong?
jr | 9:05 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
yes to walkon's comments, i have kids and am willing to pay for them (taxes
for their education) whereas my neighbor, a veteran on a fixed income, gets no
breaks, yes he is responsible for the education of our next generation, but we,
who have kids, should carry a greater financial responsibility for their
education, the state tax exemption per child must be re-examined and eliminated,
if we choose to have the kids we should be financially able and responsible to
educate them, meaning no tax breaks, we need to fund their education in a
reasonably sized class (not 35 as in one class in my child's
school)..........
C Sharette | 9:10 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Charter schools were started with the idea that they could be laboratories to
find innovative ways educate students. Most of us have smaller class sizes -
and the first question I usually get from visitors to our school is - how do you
do this on the same or smaller budget received per pupil?
Those who oppose charter schools have an answer - they say that because we have enrollment caps (we are allowed a certain number of students maximum) we don't have the same fiscal challenges. This was mentioned in the article.
This answer is silly, of course. We educate a certain number of students on the same or a bit less per pupil funding than traditional districts.
We do it by having control over how we prioritize our spending, and responding to what our parents want. If we don't, we lose our students, and the funding that goes with them.
Our K-1 classes have 24 students Grade 2 has 26, Grade 3-4 28, Grades 5-6 30. Each class has a certified teacher AND a full-time paraprofessional.
Students spend 2.5 hours each day in even smaller "groups" for reading, spelling and math.
There is a way!
Those who oppose charter schools have an answer - they say that because we have enrollment caps (we are allowed a certain number of students maximum) we don't have the same fiscal challenges. This was mentioned in the article.
This answer is silly, of course. We educate a certain number of students on the same or a bit less per pupil funding than traditional districts.
We do it by having control over how we prioritize our spending, and responding to what our parents want. If we don't, we lose our students, and the funding that goes with them.
Our K-1 classes have 24 students Grade 2 has 26, Grade 3-4 28, Grades 5-6 30. Each class has a certified teacher AND a full-time paraprofessional.
Students spend 2.5 hours each day in even smaller "groups" for reading, spelling and math.
There is a way!
Mike R. | 10:02 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
The class size arguement is a crock.
When I went to elementary school many years ago at McMillan, I was never in a class smaller than 35 students. I don't think that my education lacked due to class size. My teachers did a great job with all of us. There were fast learners, slow learners, and the rest of us in the middle. Of the 38 in my 6th grade class, all but 3 (that I know of) graduated from high school.
The continual harping on reducing class size is just another excuse to throw money at teachers. Make the school districts accountable for what they spend. Get the UEA out of the classroom. Teachers should be paid on merit. Pay them based on how they teach. The better teachers need to get paid more. The worse teachers need to get paid less, or get out. Education won't get any better by throwing more money at it.
When I went to elementary school many years ago at McMillan, I was never in a class smaller than 35 students. I don't think that my education lacked due to class size. My teachers did a great job with all of us. There were fast learners, slow learners, and the rest of us in the middle. Of the 38 in my 6th grade class, all but 3 (that I know of) graduated from high school.
The continual harping on reducing class size is just another excuse to throw money at teachers. Make the school districts accountable for what they spend. Get the UEA out of the classroom. Teachers should be paid on merit. Pay them based on how they teach. The better teachers need to get paid more. The worse teachers need to get paid less, or get out. Education won't get any better by throwing more money at it.
David | 10:02 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Class sizes cannot be reduced under the current system since the State mandates
a minimum number of students per class that is higher than the National average.
In our school, the student population will be reduced by about 10 students (in
the whole school) for next year and the school will have to eliminate one
teaching position. As it is, the average class size for the 6th grade in our
school (3 classes) is down to about 25 students per class. One of the lower
grades (where the net loss of students may occur) will lose one teacher and
either have jumbo class sizes or will have a "split" where a teacher
has students from two different grades in his/her class room. If the State would
lower the minimum class size to something closer to that of other states, then
we would be on the right track.
Anonymous | 10:02 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Teacher4vr - There are alot of people out there who love to place the blame on
the UEA even though they have very little power. When was the last walkout? How
'bout those huge raises! People like Dave will keep on spewing venom about
something they know very little about. Charter schools must watch and account
for every penny - THAT IS THE ANSWER - all employees of a district who are not
teaching should be closely examined to see if their jobs are needed. The waste
is sickening. The cost to taxpayers is appalling. The money is pretty much gone
before it "trickles down" to the classroom.
Can't believe it | 10:21 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Unbelieveable! $700 MILLION and that's the best we can do!? Reading down
through the comments, it sure looks like we've got plenty of excuses to go
around. Arrggggh!
C Sharette to David | 10:36 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
David
I am not sure what you are referring to with regard to state mandates on class size. I have never read a state law or rule that stipulates class size. I am quite sure they don't exist.
I think you may be referring to a district protocol. In order to balance budgets, districts have to put in place guidelines with regard to staffing that are based upon student counts. That is what I was referring to - charter schools don't have to abide by those district protocols so we can make class size whatever we choose.
Of course we have to be able to pay for those choices. Our school prioritizes spending differently to make sure we can have reasonable class sizes. All of our student desks were salvaged from public schools getting rid of "old" desks, for example. The desks have worked beautifully for 5 years and we paid very little or nothing for them. Same thing for bookcases, bulletin boards, teacher desks, filing cabinets, white boards, etc.
And no complaints from parents that their child is sitting in an old desk! We achieved 98% parental satisfaction last year.
I am not sure what you are referring to with regard to state mandates on class size. I have never read a state law or rule that stipulates class size. I am quite sure they don't exist.
I think you may be referring to a district protocol. In order to balance budgets, districts have to put in place guidelines with regard to staffing that are based upon student counts. That is what I was referring to - charter schools don't have to abide by those district protocols so we can make class size whatever we choose.
Of course we have to be able to pay for those choices. Our school prioritizes spending differently to make sure we can have reasonable class sizes. All of our student desks were salvaged from public schools getting rid of "old" desks, for example. The desks have worked beautifully for 5 years and we paid very little or nothing for them. Same thing for bookcases, bulletin boards, teacher desks, filing cabinets, white boards, etc.
And no complaints from parents that their child is sitting in an old desk! We achieved 98% parental satisfaction last year.
Retired Teacher | 10:43 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
The state and district can't just take the present number of students
divide by number of teachers, take the ratio and average pay and then figure how
many teachers of average pay it would take to reduce the ratio by one. The
problem with this is that it doesn't cover the cost. For every added
teacher, a classroom will have to be built, more administrators/staff hired, and
more building maintenance/utilities will be needed. Most of the increased
funding each year goes simply to keeping up.
Funding for K-12 education comes primarily from the state income taxes, with a much smaller portion from local property taxes, and public lands. Since a teacher shortage is developing nation and state wide, the wages for good teachers is going to have to rise. It will be very difficult to reduce class size with a teacher shortage. Districts don't want to be in the position of having to hire every qualified teacher applicant (scrape the barrel so to speak).
As far as illegal aliens are concerned, remember they pay no state income tax, and so contribute very little to education. The same applies to large young families were deductions, brings income tax to near zero
Funding for K-12 education comes primarily from the state income taxes, with a much smaller portion from local property taxes, and public lands. Since a teacher shortage is developing nation and state wide, the wages for good teachers is going to have to rise. It will be very difficult to reduce class size with a teacher shortage. Districts don't want to be in the position of having to hire every qualified teacher applicant (scrape the barrel so to speak).
As far as illegal aliens are concerned, remember they pay no state income tax, and so contribute very little to education. The same applies to large young families were deductions, brings income tax to near zero
Big Business | 10:48 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Education is big business and is run by educators and not business
administrators. There needs to be accountability for the money wasted in
education.
Is it not true that UTAH gives a higher percentage of its total tax dollar to education than any other state in the USA? Believing this to be true, why is it not ever discussed by the leadership or the union?
There is not a teacher in Utah today that didn't know about Utah's large class sizes when they started their education pursuit to become a teacher. No one forced you to become teachers.
Will the union ever be satisfied? Not yesterday, not today, and not tomorrow.
As teachers continue their negative complaints about their lot in life - their enthusiasm for teaching declines. There are seven in my family and all have graduated from high school. The seven us can count on one hand the outstanding teachers in our lives.
Teachers need to be held accountable. As long as the leadership is based on teachers, the accountability will never take place.
Is it not true that UTAH gives a higher percentage of its total tax dollar to education than any other state in the USA? Believing this to be true, why is it not ever discussed by the leadership or the union?
There is not a teacher in Utah today that didn't know about Utah's large class sizes when they started their education pursuit to become a teacher. No one forced you to become teachers.
Will the union ever be satisfied? Not yesterday, not today, and not tomorrow.
As teachers continue their negative complaints about their lot in life - their enthusiasm for teaching declines. There are seven in my family and all have graduated from high school. The seven us can count on one hand the outstanding teachers in our lives.
Teachers need to be held accountable. As long as the leadership is based on teachers, the accountability will never take place.
Troutman | 10:54 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
I taught school for 6 years! I finally graduated in 1998 and went on to better
things! But you know, I have mixed feelings about class size reduction! While
I was teaching out in Vernal, (which was some of the Problem) sorry,
couldn't resist that one. Anyway, while teaching there, one year I talked
the counselor into getting a Current Events Class, as I taught Geography and
this would be a great elective. Well, they gave me one class one year. I only
had 12 students in the class. It was a Nightmare! Why, all 12 of the kids that
they put in that class were the hard core, druggie, unmotivated students of the
school! After about 3 months, it finally started to come along. However, I
lost about 3 that were taken to a type of reform school! My point is, it is all
fine and dandy to reduce class size, but it matters a whole lot how that class
is put together. One of my biggest complaints when I taught was how the
counselors grouped the students together. There were and still are today,
students that just should not be put together with other students.
Too much overhead | 10:59 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
I would be interested in seeing where the actual education money is going. We
have plenty of education funding, but it seems like not much of it actually hits
the teachers or the students. Now we have effectively doubled or tripled our
overhead by splitting Jordan SD. Too much administration and too little
teaching
troutman! | 11:22 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Remember that Seinfeld episode! The one where Elaine puts an exclamation point
after every sentence! Thanks for reminding me! That was funny!
Rick | 11:26 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
"So, Utah is at the bottom of spending per pupil, but, we rate high on
national tests. Maybe the other states need to spend less on education. It may
improve their scores and our position in the list. :)" Just what W. Edwards
Deming would teach. too bad our educatoinal system loves Dewey (Marxist,
atheist and the likes) and hates Deming. Boy are we headed in the wrong
direction.
Since we are on the topic of more money for classrooms, would someone please define what "Fully Funded" means? I hear that all the time and I really can't find the end of the line on this one.
Since we are on the topic of more money for classrooms, would someone please define what "Fully Funded" means? I hear that all the time and I really can't find the end of the line on this one.
A thought | 11:39 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
So, with the pay raises and bonuses for teachers recently, it would appear that
we're trying to hire and retain good teachers a little more now. I know
lowering class sizes generally is a good thing, but shouldn't these
somewhat higher paid, hopefully better teachers be able to handle a larger
class? Along with the continual moaning about large class sizes, the continuing
high performance of our students, along with the above mentioned fact that we
spend a higher percentage of our tax dollars on education than any other state
tells me we've got it about right.
Brandon | 11:48 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
National studies have shown that many other factors affect a child's
quality of education more than class sizes. I believe that the most significant
factor is the quality of the individual teacher that the child is dealing with.
There are some good teachers out there, but, unforunately, there are even more
poor teachers. I believe that this is for 2 reasons: (1) teachers don't
make enough money to attract a lot of really sharp individuals; and (2) an
"education degree" in college is one of the easiest degrees to earn.
This allows those who couldn't "hack it" in other degree programs
to go into teaching. For example, in may colleges teaching degree programs
there exists a "story-telling class". This class is composed of
college students listening to an instructor demostrate how to tell a story. Then
at the end of semester each college student has to tell a story of their own to
the class! How pathetic that people are actually earning college credit for
things like this! And these are the people going to teach our children!
It's not class size, it's class quality, which is directly related to teacher quality.
It's not class size, it's class quality, which is directly related to teacher quality.
Rick | 11:50 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
We congratulate the common man when he gets a screaming deal at the local Ford
Dealer but when we, the Public, get a screaming deal (high test scores, low
Per-Pupil Spending) we complain because the states next to us are spending a
great deal more with no real gain. Why is that?
less is more | 11:58 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Too many people.
Too many problems.
Too many problems.
Steve | 12:03 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
This article reminds me of when I had just moved to Utah in 2000. The media was
going on and on about no text books for children. The state gave the school
districts millions of dollars for text book and guess what.....no one could
figure out where the money went to. Something is wrong with many of these
school districts if they can't do simple accounting. I don't mind
supporting education but first I want accountability of where my money goes.
Simple Math | 12:05 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
It does not matter how much money was spent, looking at the money given to
reduce class sizes and the number of students, Utah is still dead last in per
student funding.
But, it is the education system that gets hammered for not doing enough. It is a miracle you can find a teacher or anyone else to put up with this kind of mess. Utah is great at bashing public education and underfunding it so it can bash it more.
But, it is the education system that gets hammered for not doing enough. It is a miracle you can find a teacher or anyone else to put up with this kind of mess. Utah is great at bashing public education and underfunding it so it can bash it more.
Anonymous | 12:38 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
The more people you have in a community the more problems you will have to deal
with.
I thought EVERYBODY knew that.
I thought EVERYBODY knew that.
RE: BIG BUSINESS | 12:51 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Seven in your family and they all graduated. Those are pretty good odds, in such
a poor system. How much of your taxes went to their education? There in lies the
problem; big families that pay little or no taxes equates to little financially
on your part; basically free and still crying (Boo Who). Please be aware; now
that all of yours have graduated from such a disfunct system here in Utah they
are more likely to become more productive members of society, not to mention
make more $$$ throughout their lifetime. Additionally, I came here from another
state to teach. No one and I mean no one told me of the outrageous class sizes.
Why is that? Since you're a business guy figure it out (Hint: teacher
shortage). You should be very satisfied that all seven in your family graduated
with little or no financial contribution from you. Now that's BIG BUSINESS
(A better way of life for your family due to a lack of "outstanding
teachers"). You're living the dream you have an education and
don't even know it.
SAD!!!
SAD!!!
Utah Train Wreck | 1:22 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
I showed my student teacher what her entry salary will be in Utah (approximately
$25,000 per year). We discussed her second interest as pharmacist and entry pay
(approximately $75,000). When she got over the initial shock, she simply said
�Thank you, I really had no idea there was such a
difference�. How can we possibly retain quality educators
that have a career option. Education in Utah is on collision course for a
colossal wreck. If you want quality education in Utah, now is time to put up.
Anonymous | 1:31 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
The powers that be in Utah couldn't care less about the education of their
childen and their children's children.
These are the "last days" so it doesn't make any difference.
These are the "last days" so it doesn't make any difference.
Rick | 1:35 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
From Utah Train Wreck "I showed my student teacher what her entry salary
will be in Utah (approximately $25,000 per year). We discussed her second
interest as pharmacist and entry pay (approximately $75,000). When she got over
the initial shock, she simply said �Thank you, I really had
no idea there was such a difference�. How can we possibly
retain quality educators that have a career option. Education in Utah is on
collision course for a colossal wreck. If you want quality education in Utah,
now is time to put up."
Would you please define a "quality educator"? I think our definitions may be a bit opposing each other.
Would you please define a "quality educator"? I think our definitions may be a bit opposing each other.
A teacher | 2:13 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
All of these comments are interesting, but there is something missing in each
one. Yes, class sizes need help. Yes, there are some teachers who need help.
Yes, taxes are important. And, finally, yes, immigration has something to do
with the class room sizes, the money, etc. HOWEVER...if parents were just a
little more involved in the lives of their students, if they would stop trying
to find someone or something else to blame for the problems their kids are
having or creating, if the parents would take as big a role in the lives of the
kids as most teachers actually try to...we would see a huge change! The
problems of testing, classroom size, and behavior are all rooted in respect. If
a student doesn't respect his/her teacher, that student is probably getting
the information from home. Parents are the ones who should be held accountable
if their students are not succeeding!
Fred | 2:23 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
So we spent $700 million for the years 2000 through 2006 and got 2 extra
teachers? The auditors said the money was likely paid for maintenance? This is
typical, at least half of the money spent in public education is wasted and
unaccounted for. When is our legislature going to damand some accountability
here and force the educational system to enact the measures behind the money?
Our elected officials had better wake up to what is happening here.
Fred? | 2:36 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
What is happining here? Look at the cost of living, look at the cost of
supplies, look at the cost of utlities.
What is happining here is Utah is not keeping up, and getting left in the dust. Bash the education system, when it is the most underfunded system in the enitre US, so what is happening here.
Yes, wake up and see what is happening, ignorance is not a defense.
What is happining here is Utah is not keeping up, and getting left in the dust. Bash the education system, when it is the most underfunded system in the enitre US, so what is happening here.
Yes, wake up and see what is happening, ignorance is not a defense.
Anonymous | 2:56 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Every so often the powers that be manipulate an economic situation where (like
during the Great Depression, while half the country was starving) those in
charge got even wealthier as they capitalized on their new found buying
power.
I think the Great Depression II is just now taking off. This one will be worse than the first because of many, many more people exist today than back then.
I think the Great Depression II is just now taking off. This one will be worse than the first because of many, many more people exist today than back then.
Still no choice | 3:30 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
I don't see what all the complaining is about, wasn't one size fits
all the golden bullet? Thanks "UEA, PTA & DUMB-A" for using my
money for all of the wonderful work you are doing to improve "OUR"
children's education. Maybe in 20 years or so we'll see some kind of
an improvement! Or maybe not.
Bocas Brain | 3:38 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
From where I come from (Australia). In a state with 5 miliion they only have
One dept of Education. There aren't all these districts with their own
buerecrats, buildings and all that duplication of staff and services that goes
on. One salary scale, one benefit scheme etc. Is it so hard to figure why we
have a problem here. You can get a Bachelors degree without going broke in
Australia In some cases students get paid to attend university
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But that only answers the population side of the question--and its pretty simple from there. All we have to do is just provide and pay for the number of teachers we need to get the size we want.
What really needs to happen is for society to re-examine its priorities for education spending. For example, giving a football coach three prep periods to review game film and deal with the media may not be as much of a priority for schools of the future as putting students into the classroom during those periods with that money.