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Share faith, Elder Ballard urges LDS
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good blog | 4:35 a.m. Dec. 17, 2007
janitor, ulusan, now if some of your other members would only follow in some of
these little towns out here..where if you ain't in your out ..i have even
had friends join just to gain employment. the double standards are what non
members remember the most because in some places like recently an article was
ran on an ex county commissioner and his caugth running a pyramid scheme which
bilked millions from education. one of the blogs was from a school official so
intent on correcting a wrong of one of the commentors he never once stated how
wrong these two were. people he no doubt had connections to yet he was quick to
defend the small facts and wouldn't comment on what the article was about.
I am not from that area but it has crossed my mind as a tax payer..how many more
so called temple reccomend holders are running around out there with this
tainted money on their hands since it was near 40 million dollars intended for
children's education. Maybe it is as Robert Redford stated these guys are
good at deflection!
Kevin | 5:53 a.m. Dec. 17, 2007
To those who yell on here that they "KNOW GOD EXISTS," prove it.
lovesaltlake | 7:01 a.m. Dec. 17, 2007
interestıng to note wıth pr departments ın each stake and at
headquarters and the church wanting absolute control over ward web sıtes
and church web sıtes that they are sayıng now to go out and speak
wıth your own voıce how do the sheep who have been followıng the
shepard do that?
Comments continue below
Jimmy | 7:45 a.m. Dec. 17, 2007
Joseph Smith did fire a pistol at two men while in Carthage jail. It is not
really known if they died, it is said that they did. They were two of the
roughly 200 mob of painted faced men who, with guns drawn, were making their way
into the cell to kill him. Joseph did exactly what anyone else would do in the
situation. Why would that be a stumbling block to anyones testimony?
The reason those who hear of deep doctrine from other sources leave the church, is because they do not really know the doctrine of the church. If the first time you hear of blood atonement is from a friend or a bashing non-member, it is likely to shake you up a bit. Members of the church in early times apostatized because of the doctrine of baptism for the dead, which most accept as just common practice now. Many apostatized simply because of the doctrine of the three degrees of glory.
The gospel is readily available. Not many people study it. I think there is a scripture something like this: "Seek not to proclaim my word, but to first obtain it." that is paraphrazed i am sure.
The reason those who hear of deep doctrine from other sources leave the church, is because they do not really know the doctrine of the church. If the first time you hear of blood atonement is from a friend or a bashing non-member, it is likely to shake you up a bit. Members of the church in early times apostatized because of the doctrine of baptism for the dead, which most accept as just common practice now. Many apostatized simply because of the doctrine of the three degrees of glory.
The gospel is readily available. Not many people study it. I think there is a scripture something like this: "Seek not to proclaim my word, but to first obtain it." that is paraphrazed i am sure.
Malkie | 9:01 a.m. Dec. 17, 2007
Clark Roger / Jimmy
John Taylor said, of Joseph's shooting: "I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed, died."
The stumbling block may be less in the facts of the matter, and more in how the LDS church carefully omits information that might make its heroes look less than perfect.
Likely you were taught only the "faithful" history about how Joseph died?
Other examples:
When Pres Hinckley was asked about polygamy, he sidestepped Joseph Smith's practice (including polyandry).
Were you taught about the sermon of Sydney Rigdon: "And that mob that comes on us to disturb us, it shall be between us and them a war of extermination; for we will follow them until the last drop of their blood is spilled; or else they will have to exterminate us, for we will carry the seat of war to their own houses and their own families, and one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed..."? (This preceded, by months, the infamous extermination order of Missouri governor Lilburn Boggs.) Or were you taught that the mormons were a peaceful people who were threatened with extermination for no cause?
John Taylor said, of Joseph's shooting: "I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed, died."
The stumbling block may be less in the facts of the matter, and more in how the LDS church carefully omits information that might make its heroes look less than perfect.
Likely you were taught only the "faithful" history about how Joseph died?
Other examples:
When Pres Hinckley was asked about polygamy, he sidestepped Joseph Smith's practice (including polyandry).
Were you taught about the sermon of Sydney Rigdon: "And that mob that comes on us to disturb us, it shall be between us and them a war of extermination; for we will follow them until the last drop of their blood is spilled; or else they will have to exterminate us, for we will carry the seat of war to their own houses and their own families, and one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed..."? (This preceded, by months, the infamous extermination order of Missouri governor Lilburn Boggs.) Or were you taught that the mormons were a peaceful people who were threatened with extermination for no cause?
Mick Jarl | 10:46 a.m. Dec. 17, 2007
Ballard's call to arms is destined to fail. Encouraging members of the LDS
Church to be more engaged with the Internet will simply expose those members to
ideas to which they otherwise would not be exposed.
Participation in the "dialogue" the Internet permits changes those who participate in the dialogue. Absent fundamental reform within Mormonism of the same magnitude as occurred at dawn of the 20th Century, the LDS Church will simply continue to lose members at an increasing rate.
At present, the growth rate of the LDS Church in the United States is close to zero despite the hugh investment of time and money devoted to missionary work. The decline in growth rates over the past decade is a direct result of the rise of the Internet. The Internet has become a major problem for the LDS Church and to think it may also be the "solution" is naive.
Participation in the "dialogue" the Internet permits changes those who participate in the dialogue. Absent fundamental reform within Mormonism of the same magnitude as occurred at dawn of the 20th Century, the LDS Church will simply continue to lose members at an increasing rate.
At present, the growth rate of the LDS Church in the United States is close to zero despite the hugh investment of time and money devoted to missionary work. The decline in growth rates over the past decade is a direct result of the rise of the Internet. The Internet has become a major problem for the LDS Church and to think it may also be the "solution" is naive.
Ex-Mo | 11:20 a.m. Dec. 17, 2007
I was raised mormon my entire life. I never once belived but went through the
motions and thought I could for my life. The Internet, what a wonderful
beautiful thing (it can also be a devastating thing) helped answer my questions.
Instead of have faith, don't question the prophet, and read the scriptures
I got answers that made sense. I have felt more at peace and spiritually
fulfilled since I found the truth. I am not Anti-Mormon, I never will be. I am
an ex-mormon, meaning no longer. I love the LDS religion for what it has
instilled in me and I believe I am a better human and spirit for being taught
the Ten Commandments and basically being the best person I can be. My entire
family and extended family are all LDS and I would never call their religion
false or that they are bad people. I do not believe the church is true, but
that is my perogative and having to deal with offers and visiting teaching and
missionaries is not welcome. I have made my spiritual path. I know members mean
well. I wish they'd leave me in non-judgemental peace. God bless and Merry
Christmas
Truth is a Gem | 11:42 a.m. Dec. 17, 2007
Mick:
Close to zero growth? Sorry, but that is just not upheld by the facts. We are building a new chapel ever weekday throughout the world, new temples are going up all over the world. Here in LATAM the growth is quite impresive. Not only is the growth positive but it is exponential.
"Dogs Bark but the Caravan Moves On"
Close to zero growth? Sorry, but that is just not upheld by the facts. We are building a new chapel ever weekday throughout the world, new temples are going up all over the world. Here in LATAM the growth is quite impresive. Not only is the growth positive but it is exponential.
"Dogs Bark but the Caravan Moves On"
Heather | 3:18 p.m. Dec. 17, 2007
Mick Jarl,
It's those kinds of fabrications, misconceptions, and exaggerations that Church members and friends of other faiths (who know what Latter-day Saints believe) need to stand up against. Thank you for showing us an example of what kind of lies there are on the Internet and the reason it's important for the rest of us, who don't rely on hearsay, to set straight.
It's those kinds of fabrications, misconceptions, and exaggerations that Church members and friends of other faiths (who know what Latter-day Saints believe) need to stand up against. Thank you for showing us an example of what kind of lies there are on the Internet and the reason it's important for the rest of us, who don't rely on hearsay, to set straight.
Matt NOT in Utard | 4:43 p.m. Dec. 17, 2007
It seems to me that this is a bad idea.
It was just a few years ago that this same organization asked us members to take down our non-church sponsered sites as they wanted to control the content. I knew of a number of really terrific sites that shut down due to this "request". Now they are "Mitt-ing it"? (flip-flopping)
What will ensue is a bunch of local "mo-poligists" spewing utter nonsense.
Best of luck to you faithfull. You'll need it if your friends do some homework. Enjoy explaining Enish-go-on-Dosh
It was just a few years ago that this same organization asked us members to take down our non-church sponsered sites as they wanted to control the content. I knew of a number of really terrific sites that shut down due to this "request". Now they are "Mitt-ing it"? (flip-flopping)
What will ensue is a bunch of local "mo-poligists" spewing utter nonsense.
Best of luck to you faithfull. You'll need it if your friends do some homework. Enjoy explaining Enish-go-on-Dosh
WestBerkeleyFlats | 4:55 p.m. Dec. 17, 2007
Heather,
Published statistical data from a variety of sources, including LDS members, indicates that the net conversion rate for the LDS church in the U.S. is essentially flat for the last decade or so. As many people leave the church enter, in large part because of retention of converts is rather low. LDS missionary efforts in this country are beginning to resemble those in Europe.
Published statistical data from a variety of sources, including LDS members, indicates that the net conversion rate for the LDS church in the U.S. is essentially flat for the last decade or so. As many people leave the church enter, in large part because of retention of converts is rather low. LDS missionary efforts in this country are beginning to resemble those in Europe.
wearyBishop | 5:16 p.m. Dec. 17, 2007
It will never get very far, too many of the members are spending their time
watching the evils of pornography, rather than doing something positive online.
momnmb | 6:21 p.m. Dec. 17, 2007
The trick to avoid contentious discussions, I have found, is to recognize when
the discussion is going nowhere. If the person you are discussing with
doesn't want to hear the truth it doesn't do much good to keep trying.
Save your breath (or key strokes) for those who are sincerely inquiring about
the church. I hope we all took the advice from last General Conference and come
up with a few talking points for those who ask us to tell the "a little
bit" about the church. I remember thinking what a great idea, to be
prepared for that moment, but have I done it yet? Nope. I better get busy
typing.....
Too many allegations | 7:01 p.m. Dec. 17, 2007
For the person who claimed Joseph Smith killed two people at Carthage Jail, I
would like to know what the names of the two men were. You would think if this
statement were true, every book written against the LDS Church would have the
two men's names, and ages when they died, written for the whole world to
see. But for those who bash the LDS Church, second-hand accounts are just as
good as first-hand accounts.
To wearyBishop - I agree their is a problem of too many LDS people who look at pornography on-line. Sad to say, I know of a few temple marriages which have been broken up because of it. However, I do believe there are even more LDS people who do not look at pornography. I would say, in my own case, the three websites I look at the most are the websites of the Deseret News, ESPN, and the LDS Church' s official website.
I honestly don't know how some people have the time to look at porn. If I feel the need to look at garbage, I can just as easily walk in my garage and peak inside my trash can.
To wearyBishop - I agree their is a problem of too many LDS people who look at pornography on-line. Sad to say, I know of a few temple marriages which have been broken up because of it. However, I do believe there are even more LDS people who do not look at pornography. I would say, in my own case, the three websites I look at the most are the websites of the Deseret News, ESPN, and the LDS Church' s official website.
I honestly don't know how some people have the time to look at porn. If I feel the need to look at garbage, I can just as easily walk in my garage and peak inside my trash can.
Elder Young | 8:06 p.m. Dec. 17, 2007
There are so many of us members that know very little about the church.....
For instance..Do you know how old Joseph was when he finally received the plates??? Don't LOOK!!
He was 22....It is right in the PoGP...11-22-1827...That means Moroni visited him 8 years in a row....WOW!! Talk about patience... Now how old was he when he married Emma???
Same age..he married Emma earlier that year on Jan 18th.
For instance..Do you know how old Joseph was when he finally received the plates??? Don't LOOK!!
He was 22....It is right in the PoGP...11-22-1827...That means Moroni visited him 8 years in a row....WOW!! Talk about patience... Now how old was he when he married Emma???
Same age..he married Emma earlier that year on Jan 18th.
Follow the Prophet folks... | 11:26 p.m. Dec. 17, 2007
Too many scripturtal (Biblical) prophecies to get contending with those nay
sayers about the Restored Gospel and Kingdom out there. If the Kingdom is not
upon the earth today in the form of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints, where is it? Don't tell me it is in heaven because the Bible
clearly is filled with unbundant scripture saying it would be restored to the
earth. It has happened. God's "strange" work as the Bible put it
is in your midst. The little stone spoken of in Daniel 2 is rolling forth in the
form of the Latter Day Saints and the church. Read, if you have one, 1st Nephi
14:10-17 in the Book of Mormon, you will find out why the church membership is
small in todays church, and more. Joseph Smith was indeed a non perfect, Prophet
of God, at least his translation of these passages, and many more, have come to
pass. God Bless You all....I am so greatful for my faith and that of my large
and wonderful family. They do so much good in the world by following our
prophet.
A member | 12:04 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007
I know that God lives, that Jesus is the Christ, that God loves all His
children, that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God, that the Book of Mormon is the
word of God, that the Holy Bible is the word of God in so far as it has been
translated correctly.
I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. I learned this many years ago, by getting on my knees, and asking the only true source - God!
Being a member of another religion, I asked if that religion were true. I asked again and again, but I received no answer. Then I decided to ask if the Church (I had forgotten the long name, but God knew) if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, and I received the warmest feeling coursing through my entire body.
I know the Church is true. I am thankful for having received that answer. It strengthens me, still, after more than 30 years.
I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. I learned this many years ago, by getting on my knees, and asking the only true source - God!
Being a member of another religion, I asked if that religion were true. I asked again and again, but I received no answer. Then I decided to ask if the Church (I had forgotten the long name, but God knew) if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, and I received the warmest feeling coursing through my entire body.
I know the Church is true. I am thankful for having received that answer. It strengthens me, still, after more than 30 years.
Heather | 12:06 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007
WBF: We could get into a myriad of arguments as to why the stats I've seen
from sources outside of the LDS Church do not compel me to believe that the
membership is flat-lining in the US. I'm sure you have evidence which
could be just as swaying. It's all moot. It�s not the
heart of the matter.
What's interesting (and this is not targeted at you) is that an anti/ex/non "Mormon" has the audacious to tell me what I believe. I could never assume to tell another what they believe in, or declare whether or not they are Christian, let alone stoop to degrading anything they believe to be sacred. I respect others and I'm happy they find joy in their belief system. What is there to fear in Latter-day Saints taking a stand on what they believe? It�s time both sides were presented, and let members and non-members alike decide for themselves.
What's interesting (and this is not targeted at you) is that an anti/ex/non "Mormon" has the audacious to tell me what I believe. I could never assume to tell another what they believe in, or declare whether or not they are Christian, let alone stoop to degrading anything they believe to be sacred. I respect others and I'm happy they find joy in their belief system. What is there to fear in Latter-day Saints taking a stand on what they believe? It�s time both sides were presented, and let members and non-members alike decide for themselves.
Heather | 12:08 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007
I�m glad that everyone can now realize that the Ward
websites were taken down, not because the Church wanted all control of LDS
related content, but because some less-savvy website creators were publishing
full directories and contact information in an unsecured environment.
Anonymous | 1:50 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007
Heather: One of the strengths (and weaknesses) of the LDS Church is that it has
no defined canon (in contrast to a religion like Catholicism which has a very
defined canon). Each generation of Mormon scholars redefines those beliefs
anew. In the early 20th Century, it was B.H. Roberts and James E. Talmage. In
the mid-20th Century it was Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie.
Even as we engage in this discussion, the beliefs of the LDS Church are changing. I grew up in a Mormon Church that taught that the Indians were descendants of the Book of Mormon Lamanites. In the face of the current DNA controversy, the Church is moving away from that position.
Even as we engage in this discussion, the beliefs of the LDS Church are changing. I grew up in a Mormon Church that taught that the Indians were descendants of the Book of Mormon Lamanites. In the face of the current DNA controversy, the Church is moving away from that position.
Malkie | 6:45 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007
to Too many allegations
I agree that that the names of the two men are not readily available.
However, when John Taylor indicates that two attackers were killed by Joseph's gun, that's pretty convincing to me. Also, in recent discussions on a mormon discussion group (it's against the rules to give the URL here), mormon apologists from FARMS (Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies) at BYU also concede that Joseph went down fighting, and killed two men: I think it's beyond serious doubt.
Note that I'm NOT saying that Joseph was not entitled to defend himself. What I AM saying is that the church does not teach this, and many other non-faith-promoting aspects of LDS history.
On whether the whole truth should be told, Boyd K Packer has said that "some truths are not very useful". (Odd position for a church leader to take?)
In any case, my original post was intended to point out that many members do not know enough of real LDS history and controversy to have an internet presence that will not be quickly torn to shreds by critics who do know. Perhaps Elder Ballard should be concerned.
I agree that that the names of the two men are not readily available.
However, when John Taylor indicates that two attackers were killed by Joseph's gun, that's pretty convincing to me. Also, in recent discussions on a mormon discussion group (it's against the rules to give the URL here), mormon apologists from FARMS (Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies) at BYU also concede that Joseph went down fighting, and killed two men: I think it's beyond serious doubt.
Note that I'm NOT saying that Joseph was not entitled to defend himself. What I AM saying is that the church does not teach this, and many other non-faith-promoting aspects of LDS history.
On whether the whole truth should be told, Boyd K Packer has said that "some truths are not very useful". (Odd position for a church leader to take?)
In any case, my original post was intended to point out that many members do not know enough of real LDS history and controversy to have an internet presence that will not be quickly torn to shreds by critics who do know. Perhaps Elder Ballard should be concerned.
greg graffin | 9:53 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007
"He's the farmers barren fields, the force the army wields,
expressions on the faces of the starving millions. He's the power of the
man, the fuel that drives the clan, he's the motive and the conscience of
the murderer. He's the preacher on tv, the false sincerity, he's the
form letter that's written by the big computers. The nuclear bombs, the
kids with no moms and I'm fearful that he's inside me. We've got
the American Jesus, see him on the interstate, He helped build the
President's estate. One Nation, Under God"
gG | 10:05 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007
"can't you feel it, can't you see
the promise of prosperity
it's overwhelming you and me
it afflicts us like a disease
ubiquitous compelling too
we cling to you like crazy glue
and inject such a potent seed
it's best for all humanity
the spread of culture
the sword of progress
the vector of suffrage
the warm and septic breeze
the pomp and elation
the duty and vocation
the blood of the hybrid
it's just a recipe
re-living our ancestry
the frightful lack of harmony
our fore-fathers who led the way
their victims are still here today
now it's time to erase
the story of our bogus fate
our history as it's portrayed
it's just a recipe for hate"
the promise of prosperity
it's overwhelming you and me
it afflicts us like a disease
ubiquitous compelling too
we cling to you like crazy glue
and inject such a potent seed
it's best for all humanity
the spread of culture
the sword of progress
the vector of suffrage
the warm and septic breeze
the pomp and elation
the duty and vocation
the blood of the hybrid
it's just a recipe
re-living our ancestry
the frightful lack of harmony
our fore-fathers who led the way
their victims are still here today
now it's time to erase
the story of our bogus fate
our history as it's portrayed
it's just a recipe for hate"
TYLER | 11:02 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007
Wow, this was an interesting perspective by Elder Ballard. I like that he's
encouraging us to use technology to let our beliefs be known.
"J. Council" I really enjoyed your comparison. In about a month I am going to be a missionary in South Africa, and will be teaching in a mission that is 72% black. It will be very exciting to see people who have been segregated because of both race and religion. They must be incredible people. Good comment.
"J. Council" I really enjoyed your comparison. In about a month I am going to be a missionary in South Africa, and will be teaching in a mission that is 72% black. It will be very exciting to see people who have been segregated because of both race and religion. They must be incredible people. Good comment.
Roger | 5:24 p.m. Dec. 18, 2007
I've been a church member for 40 yrs. I think I am reasonably well read in
the doctrine and history of the Church...but I am not a spokesman for the
Church, and especially not on the internet where, I believe, there are
'wolves in sheeps clothing lying in wait to decieve' But I have
promised to defend the principles of the gospel and I will do my best in
accordance with the teachings of the Saviour. I doubt if I will discuss
anything that will persuade another person to look further 'with real
intent, having faith in Christ' to honestly seek 'after these
things' But I will do my best in defending and sustaining sacred matters
as I understand them.
As for a few of the comments posted on here regarding members being exposed to the pitfalls of 'full truth' I agree with them, some of my friends have been persuaded by arguments regarding the 'other side' of Joseph Smith...they are now classed as 'inactive' and it woukd appear that the critics have won...I don't know, I think I'm very glad I'm a simple soul who believes he's found something very sacred and good in Church doctrine and history Sorry.
As for a few of the comments posted on here regarding members being exposed to the pitfalls of 'full truth' I agree with them, some of my friends have been persuaded by arguments regarding the 'other side' of Joseph Smith...they are now classed as 'inactive' and it woukd appear that the critics have won...I don't know, I think I'm very glad I'm a simple soul who believes he's found something very sacred and good in Church doctrine and history Sorry.
larry | 6:51 p.m. Dec. 18, 2007
I am all for a discussion of LDS beliefs as long as it is a 2-way street. My
worry is that when Ballard calls for members to defend, he intends for them to
state the church's position and then turn a deaf ear. It wasn't until
I listened to what some critics had to say that I learned the true history of
the Chruch. Sure, there are lies about the LDS Church online. There are also
many things that most members would think are false, (not taught in Sunday
School or uncomfortable) but that are nevertheless true.
Mormonism has many great people and ideas but it will never be at peace until it acknowledges and makes peace with it's past. This is difficult for many. It may require for some to redefine what is true and what truth is. But what other option is there really?
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good"
Mormonism has many great people and ideas but it will never be at peace until it acknowledges and makes peace with it's past. This is difficult for many. It may require for some to redefine what is true and what truth is. But what other option is there really?
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good"
No thanks... | 12:37 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
...keep it to yourselves.
re: Larry 6:51 | 1:55 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Larry,
Your projecting your opinions and over generalizing things. For one, you speak as the church needing to make peace with it's past. Some members and former members are surely under-educated about church history, and might in fact have personal problems with church history. This doesn't reflect on the church or its history, just on some people. Many members are fully educated and comfortable with church history and their testimony. Please don't over generalize us, or any other organization.
You also talk about learning the "facts" about church history, and that you finally learned the truth from church critics. I'm sure you see the problem with your statement on this, without me pointing it out.
Your projecting your opinions and over generalizing things. For one, you speak as the church needing to make peace with it's past. Some members and former members are surely under-educated about church history, and might in fact have personal problems with church history. This doesn't reflect on the church or its history, just on some people. Many members are fully educated and comfortable with church history and their testimony. Please don't over generalize us, or any other organization.
You also talk about learning the "facts" about church history, and that you finally learned the truth from church critics. I'm sure you see the problem with your statement on this, without me pointing it out.
Just my opinion | 2:53 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
For me, actions have always spoken louder than words.
Malkie | 5:45 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
re: Larry 6:51 | 1:55 p.m
You say:
"You also talk about learning the "facts" about church history, and that you finally learned the truth from church critics. I'm sure you see the problem with your statement on this, without me pointing it out."
Firstly, if you read his comments carefully, Larry did not say that he learned the true history *from* critics.
Secondly, you know that the pope has "reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday [10 July] that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches."
Do you accept the RC church's characterization of itself with respect to other denominations? Or do you see a problem with this, without me pointing it out?
Is it not sensible to explore dissenting voices, as well as promoters of a belief system, in order to get a balanced view? Otherwise, how is one to get the "facts" to decide on the competing claims of all sorts of religious and non-religious organizations, all of which want your time, talents, and money?
The LDS church displays self interest when it advises people to listen *only* to its authorised representatives.
You say:
"You also talk about learning the "facts" about church history, and that you finally learned the truth from church critics. I'm sure you see the problem with your statement on this, without me pointing it out."
Firstly, if you read his comments carefully, Larry did not say that he learned the true history *from* critics.
Secondly, you know that the pope has "reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday [10 July] that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches."
Do you accept the RC church's characterization of itself with respect to other denominations? Or do you see a problem with this, without me pointing it out?
Is it not sensible to explore dissenting voices, as well as promoters of a belief system, in order to get a balanced view? Otherwise, how is one to get the "facts" to decide on the competing claims of all sorts of religious and non-religious organizations, all of which want your time, talents, and money?
The LDS church displays self interest when it advises people to listen *only* to its authorised representatives.
The "Truth" about | 7:22 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Church history is not readily taught. Many people do not know it; they know a
version of it where facts are just not mentioned. The official teachings in the
church do not include them; I personally know this. Someone might find a teacher
especailly knowledgable in it that will tell the story as it is, but not
usually. When someone talks about learning the "truth" about church
history this is what they mean. I realize there are those that know all of the
facts in it and still believe. But I also know that there are many that find
out all the facts (such as myself) and it changes their point of view. People
need to realize that our "point of view" is just as valid as yours.
Jenny | 8:26 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
I am saddened by some of the comments and mean spirit ness of the non-members
who have posted here. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the
true church of God and I have testimony to that fact. The truth in a world full
of religious ignorance will always draw critics. The words of Elder Ballad
should ring strong in everyone�s ears. We are the chosen
church and should continually spread this message. I know the truth and will not
let anyone define who I am but I will define what they are not.
Caught in the middle | 8:38 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
The struggle between believers and non-believers goes back to the beginning of
time as we think we know it. I see the tradition is carried out in fine form
here as well. While religious faith can bestow individual peace, meaning, and
purpose, the strife it generates takes a terrible toll on humanity as a whole.
I'm convinced that it has done more to divide than to unite. Mormonism is
no different.
To Jenny | 9:08 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007
YOU GO GIRL!!! Isn't it truly great to have a testimony to the God's
True Church!!! I only wish others could feel this joy.
NorCal | 3:05 a.m. Dec. 20, 2007
Boy they are desperate.
Has Ballard even used Google before?
The internet is the new Expositor and it cannot be burned down.
I too was a life long mormon, temple marriage, etc, etc and after Googling horses+book+of+mormon I exited 3 months later.
Now my wife and all(yes very large family) are out, never to darken a chapel door or pay tithes again.
I am the new generation. I am putting a stop to this madness.
IMO, this request by Ballard is a desperate plea for help.
On that topic, I DO use these new technologies to spread the word about mormonism.
It is much easier to tell the truth than it is to hide it.
Has Ballard even used Google before?
The internet is the new Expositor and it cannot be burned down.
I too was a life long mormon, temple marriage, etc, etc and after Googling horses+book+of+mormon I exited 3 months later.
Now my wife and all(yes very large family) are out, never to darken a chapel door or pay tithes again.
I am the new generation. I am putting a stop to this madness.
IMO, this request by Ballard is a desperate plea for help.
On that topic, I DO use these new technologies to spread the word about mormonism.
It is much easier to tell the truth than it is to hide it.
Prodigal | 12:55 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007
I consider myself a convert. My parents were found by the missionaries when I
was a child but I wasn't raised with Mormon doctrine in my childhood
home.
The one thing I've learned over the years is that members of other faiths make an equally valid contribution to society as LDS members. So why am I still an actively involved LDS member? Because I've also learned that the greatest joy in life comes from loving and being loved as Christ taught and I want to learn HOW to love more perfectly.
One could logically ask then, "why can't my church teach perfect and complete love? Why only yours?" I believe that all churches desire to love and teach love. I also believe that we each are pursuing similar goals of making the world a better place. I encourage and admire the worthwhile goals of members of other faiths. However, in order to learn how to love, there must be continuing communication from the only Source of perfect love. Lastly, the LDS church isn't MY church and Joseph Smith isn't MY prophet. I didn't create the church and didn't appoint Joseph as president. I discovered them but didn't create them.
The one thing I've learned over the years is that members of other faiths make an equally valid contribution to society as LDS members. So why am I still an actively involved LDS member? Because I've also learned that the greatest joy in life comes from loving and being loved as Christ taught and I want to learn HOW to love more perfectly.
One could logically ask then, "why can't my church teach perfect and complete love? Why only yours?" I believe that all churches desire to love and teach love. I also believe that we each are pursuing similar goals of making the world a better place. I encourage and admire the worthwhile goals of members of other faiths. However, in order to learn how to love, there must be continuing communication from the only Source of perfect love. Lastly, the LDS church isn't MY church and Joseph Smith isn't MY prophet. I didn't create the church and didn't appoint Joseph as president. I discovered them but didn't create them.
Thanks "Prodigal" | 1:03 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007
Your heartfelt comments are apperciated. I do however, feel that when any
church claims to have the "most truth" or the "only truth"
(as your church once did) there is danger and it will always have persecution.
Nobody likes to be told that something they believe or maybe cherish might be
"false".
Clark Roger | 1:25 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007
To NorCal - Just curious to know, what church do you and your large family go to
now? Or, do you and your large family attend no church at all?
Also, I have Googled many religious terms myself and found a lot of negative websites concerning nearly every religious denomination you can name. You seem to put a lot of faith in Google, so does that mean that every website I Google is 100% accurate and honest in its presentation? Do half-truths count as complete truths?
If this is the case, then one could make a good argument that the Holocaust never occured, 9/11 and the Oklahoma City Bombing were entirely orchestrated by the U.S. government, and that every well-known Christian religious leader is evil and hypocritical.
NorCal and many others might have total confidence in the Internet. But from my perspective, the Internet is way too unreliable and unwieldy for me to use as an exclusive source of information about anything, especially topics about religion.
Perhaps, NorCal, are you afraid that the Internet dominance of LDS Church critics will begin to fade? Are you worried that the fading has already started?
Also, I have Googled many religious terms myself and found a lot of negative websites concerning nearly every religious denomination you can name. You seem to put a lot of faith in Google, so does that mean that every website I Google is 100% accurate and honest in its presentation? Do half-truths count as complete truths?
If this is the case, then one could make a good argument that the Holocaust never occured, 9/11 and the Oklahoma City Bombing were entirely orchestrated by the U.S. government, and that every well-known Christian religious leader is evil and hypocritical.
NorCal and many others might have total confidence in the Internet. But from my perspective, the Internet is way too unreliable and unwieldy for me to use as an exclusive source of information about anything, especially topics about religion.
Perhaps, NorCal, are you afraid that the Internet dominance of LDS Church critics will begin to fade? Are you worried that the fading has already started?
To: Thanks "Prodigal" | 3:50 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007
I understand your feelings and wish to apologize for any insensitivity any
Latter-day Saint has shown towards things you and others cherish. This is a
very sensitive topic of discussion which deserves to be treated carefully.
You are correct about the "danger" in the claims of being the only true church. I hope to carefully express things in a different view without stepping on anyone�s toes or sounding offensive. I think it helps to understand that people of all faiths are benefactors of the gift of the knowledge that we have of our Savior. If we claimed responsibility for that gift, then it would be offensive to state that we have more truth. However, because we aren�t responsible for its existence but, rather, have found something worthwhile and chose to accept it, that shouldn�t be offensive, then, to make that claim. Is it any more offensive to state that there is a church with continuing contact with God than to state that there is only one person, Jesus, capable of providing and teaching perfect love? It�s important to note that doesn�t make me superior or others inferior.
Due to the 200 word limit, I hope to continue this dialog. Prodigal.
You are correct about the "danger" in the claims of being the only true church. I hope to carefully express things in a different view without stepping on anyone�s toes or sounding offensive. I think it helps to understand that people of all faiths are benefactors of the gift of the knowledge that we have of our Savior. If we claimed responsibility for that gift, then it would be offensive to state that we have more truth. However, because we aren�t responsible for its existence but, rather, have found something worthwhile and chose to accept it, that shouldn�t be offensive, then, to make that claim. Is it any more offensive to state that there is a church with continuing contact with God than to state that there is only one person, Jesus, capable of providing and teaching perfect love? It�s important to note that doesn�t make me superior or others inferior.
Due to the 200 word limit, I hope to continue this dialog. Prodigal.
J.D. | 6:48 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007
This is exciting. The current expansion of the church is beyond rival.Wait until
we fully deploy technology to deploy the Works of God. Temple builders be ready
because if you think we are busy now... This is truly a devine thing to use
technology relaying the truth, if you doubted we were the fastest growing church
before this call, well just be prepared fot the TRUTH.
Anonymous | 8:20 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007
Brother Joseph is indeed smiling down on his works. The Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-Day Saints will continue to grow leaps and bounds with the ingenuity
of employing resources at hand. We have long been a resourceful people and this
will only add to the vast growth of the church. The message is true and by this
calling we will furthur get the true gospel to the world, this I know is true.
Jordon | 9:29 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007
It is all about testimony and Brothers and Sisters we have it. Let us bring the
misinformed into our embrace and follow what Brother Ballard has called upon us.
RM | 9:56 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007
I agree with Jordon. Let us spread the message and bring the misinformed and
uneducated the true gospel of Jesus Christ. It may hurt a bit but the truth is
always better. In serving a mission in S-AM I visited thousands but the handful
of those I was able to Baptize out of the lot will reap rewards upon their
generations to come. We are doing the Lord�s work and this
only helps with the missionary experience.
RM TOO | 10:30 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007
Amen people. We have the true word of god and I provided that testimony
throughout my mission. Now we have the opportunity to expand the effort. Amen
Elder Ballard.
Ian
Ian
Anonymous | 11:15 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007
I am hoping to be called into my mission early next year and with the positve
comments I am excited; with the negative comments I am saddened. I have a great
testimony for the church btu what should I expect? I'm leaving my
freshmenyear at UVSC and if it is that difficult out ther I want to know. I have
a good testimony and just to know the challenges. The more I read these posts
the more scared I become. Let me know.
From Robert: To Anonymous | 11:34 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007
To young Anonymous,
It is all about your testimony and that will bring you through. The education at the MTC will calm your fears and bring your calling into percpective.
It is all about your testimony and that will bring you through. The education at the MTC will calm your fears and bring your calling into percpective.
Progidal | 8:46 a.m. Dec. 21, 2007
To the young missionary as well as others: Learn to love. Please never think
of members of other faiths as "misinformed" or "uneducated."
Put yourself in their place and ask yourself "How would I feel?"
Members of other faiths are very informed and are very committed to doing good.
What an insult it is to them to make them feel as though they are inferior.
Jesus was asked on more than one occasion, "who is greatest?" I can't help but wonder if he was a little disappointed at the question because being greatest wasn't important to him at all. On two occasions, he gave two very good lessons about humility. First, by placing a child in their midst and second by washing his disciple�s feet.
Learn to lift others up, see and emphasize the good in them. Any time you belittle another, you not only hurt them but you hurt yourself even more. It's simply not Christ like.
As a true-to-life prodigal son, I can tell you that the parable prodigal was never interested in robes, rings, fatted calves or celebrations in his honor. He wanted to humbly feel his Father's love and wanted others to feel the same.
Jesus was asked on more than one occasion, "who is greatest?" I can't help but wonder if he was a little disappointed at the question because being greatest wasn't important to him at all. On two occasions, he gave two very good lessons about humility. First, by placing a child in their midst and second by washing his disciple�s feet.
Learn to lift others up, see and emphasize the good in them. Any time you belittle another, you not only hurt them but you hurt yourself even more. It's simply not Christ like.
As a true-to-life prodigal son, I can tell you that the parable prodigal was never interested in robes, rings, fatted calves or celebrations in his honor. He wanted to humbly feel his Father's love and wanted others to feel the same.
kittywaymo | 1:54 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008
Hello Everyone.. KIttywaymo here. Your words really touched me "Not Steve
B". I'm a retired journalist from NY, convert to the Church and a Jew
by birth.
I agree.. if we listened to the internet.. they would say my ancestors and Jews of today were "asking for it", or their persecution was "very exaggerated" etc. It truly reminds me of my husbands family.. Joseph and Hyrum Smith are his gg+grandfather and gg+grand-uncle. They were killed in cold blood.
The persecution of the LDS in history was a very ugly, evil time where other "christians" would rape, molest, torture, and yes kill the LDS, not just for practicing polygamy as the anti sites will tell you.. but for simply believing differently then them. I read the journals~ To read these journals you would cry as I did and those of you who are LDS and probably those who are not, would have the Holy Ghost witness, as it did for me, that Satan tried very hard to destroy the Church in the beginning through fear and persecution.
(gotta continue this below..)
I agree.. if we listened to the internet.. they would say my ancestors and Jews of today were "asking for it", or their persecution was "very exaggerated" etc. It truly reminds me of my husbands family.. Joseph and Hyrum Smith are his gg+grandfather and gg+grand-uncle. They were killed in cold blood.
The persecution of the LDS in history was a very ugly, evil time where other "christians" would rape, molest, torture, and yes kill the LDS, not just for practicing polygamy as the anti sites will tell you.. but for simply believing differently then them. I read the journals~ To read these journals you would cry as I did and those of you who are LDS and probably those who are not, would have the Holy Ghost witness, as it did for me, that Satan tried very hard to destroy the Church in the beginning through fear and persecution.
(gotta continue this below..)
kittywaymo(cont part two:) | 1:57 a.m. Sept. 6, 2008
I am always dismayed and perplexed by the quick dismissal from anti's
formermo's etc. who think we are all brainwashed idiot. I myself, am a
MENSA member and do not consider myself brainwashed or an idiot:). There are
many very bright, hard working educated LDS who know the Church is true the same
way I do, they asked the Lord and put faith the test, got the answer
"yes" through the Holy Ghost.. then they strived to really keep the
commandments, love their neighbors (i'm not saying every person does this,
but the ones who do, I can promise, NEVER leave the Church.) and their testimony
gets strengthened through this Christlike living... blessings come almost
without room to receive them. This is not magic or a trick, this is REAL. Take
care, Kitty
junior (meadow heights ward) VIC | 7:42 p.m. June 2, 2009
I like to share my Testimony and my thoughts. Since knowing about the truth and
of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints I have been so blessed in so
many ways, so much that words cannnot describe the blessings and the Love
Heavenly Father has for me. This life that he has given me personally here on
Earth and for the Friends and Family I have in my Life. Though most of My Loved
Ones are non-members and still yet to KNOW of thy TRUTH I know it WILL only be a
matter of TIME that their Lives and the Lives of others WILL know of it !!!. And
I will continue to do my best to live in LIVE in the GOSPEL and righteously and
try my very BEST to endure to the end. Until then, this my humble Tesimony of
which I leave with YOU, I LOVE YOU'S ALL in the name of JESUS CHRIST. AMEN
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