Deseret News | Reader comments: Colorado shooter had been baptized Mormon

Reader comments
Colorado shooter had been baptized Mormon

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G | 4:09 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

Oh, great. This should only help the current relationship between mormons and baptists.

socal curmudgeon | 4:15 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

Maybe he hated "Christians" because the so-called evangelical christians hate Mormons. After all, he had just been baptized, thereby insuring his place in hell with all the other Mormons. Revenge, anyone? Okay, all of this is a little TIC, but isn't there just a bit of truth to it? Show me a Mormon who hasn't been consigned to hell by at least one so-called Christian and I will show you a Mormon who has never spoken with anyone beside another fellow Mormon.

Anonymous | 4:15 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

No comment.

Comments continue below

colorado member | 4:18 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

How sad indeed...for all concerned both this Murray boy and the ones killed. Hopefully no one will think he got this idea from the LDS church teachings or scriptures...

Jersey boy | 4:28 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

What was the religion of the killer in Omaha?

Omar Gonzalez | 4:44 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

Would this 'news' even be printed if he had been baptized a Baptist or a Catholic?

Reporters will do us a greater service when they print what medications he was on.

Anonymous | 5:07 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

No he did not get the idea from the LDS church. (Remember he stopped going shortly after he was baptized.)

He had a hole in his life that he needed to fill, the missionaries taught him, he sensed something and filled his need, then stopped going and that hole got filled with anger and violence. With the kind of media today, that's easy to find. Sad.

So sad.

It's also too bad that anything and everything "Mormon" (even stuff that has nothing to do with it) has to be dredged up at the time we have a good candidate (who happens to be LDS) running for president. Will they be dredging up good stories of great accomplishments (or even mis-deeds) that were directly related to the Mormon faith??

connecting the dots | 5:20 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

Perhaps there is a link between the Desert News story about Utah being the most depressed state in the country and this poor soul's depression.

Nic | 5:39 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

The fool hated himself. Pray for him.

wallyworld | 5:42 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

"IF" it is true, then or even "IF" it isn't it won't be long before the canidates in both parties pick-up on this story and some how tie it with Mitt Romney. Then they'll say something like, "Ole Mitt was involed somehow with this persons baptism."

re: connecting the dots | 5:53 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

Oh I get it. So somehow the Mormons are responsible for driving this guy over the edge even though "shortly after his baptism... Murray stopped going to church." From the article. And I suppose the fact that he was using an assault rifle means the army was somehow involved too?

Anonymous | 6:15 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

Well obviously this guy was bazzurk. (sp?) There are various possibilites why this massacre occured. Did he really have a strong testimony? Did someone manipulate him to baptise and go on a shooting rampage for the sole purpose to make mormons seem like psychos? Was he struggling with confusion and depression? Did he experience harsh problems in his life time with some Christian churches and thus going for revenge?

Well, we will never know.....

But nobody should create false assumptions about this incident.

Depressed | 6:23 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

What's depressing is that the undereducated and non-readers among us keep oversimplifying the depression story.

It only said some researchers funded by a pill manufacturer 'found' that Utah had fewer treatments places for people who might be depressed.

Keep twisting - Mike Huckabee needs your vote.

Them mormons | 6:28 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

sure are an easy target, huh?

Only in Utah ...

are there professional baiters who spend their waking hours posting their sensational speculations, to keep many well-meaning LDS busy and defensive.

Most will just turn the other cheek and continue in their faith by doing good works.

Disappointed | 6:48 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

Sad when we keep score of the religion of folks who do bad things... why don't we highlight the religion of those who are truly doing wonderful things? What religion is our recent UofU Nobel prize winner? What about the doctors saving lives in hospitals around the world? What about the police who keep us safe? What about those brave souls who are serving in the armed forces? Since religion is so important, please include this information in all of these stories as well. Let's celebrate the fact that great people of faith do great things. We have enough news of the troubles!

Rhonda | 7:03 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

Why does religion play a part in someone's actions? What does a relgion have to do with someone's senseless acts? When do we stop blaming religion and hold a person accountable for their actions?

Rhonda | 7:07 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

Connecting the Dots: Utah is the state, according to statics, with the most people on anti-depressants? How edcuated are you on this? Do you know that Utah is the state that offers the most help for people who don't have insurance? Utah provides more ways for people to get help. Therefore, the fact that more people are on medication for depression in Utah, could be because there is more help avaible in Utah.

Rob | 7:20 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

What difference does he make what religion he was? Every religion has people that commit crime. People just make note when it is a Mormon cause they have high standards.

John | 8:48 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

What was the religion of the Columbine killers? Of the Amish school children killer? John Wilkes Booth..what was his religion? Put one...put all.

geographically challenged | 9:04 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

I thought these shootings happened in Colorado...I guess I missed something.

What religion are you? | 9:12 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

What religion is Scott Peterson of Modesto, California? What religion is Michael Vick? What religion were the two guys shooting people in Virginia from their car that we had trouble finding? What religion was Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (Columbine boys)? What religion was Jeffrey Dahmer? What religion is Kobe Bryant? What religion is Martha Stewart? What religion was Bill Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky days? What religion is OJ Simpson?--according to Adam Sandler-not a Jew. Most religions teach good things so lets not judge all these people and the boy in Colorado on their religions. Humans are weak and our religions are just trying to help us!

People died | 9:26 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

and we care about his religion? Amazingly tacky.

Phil | 11:12 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

How is his religion newsworthy? Is it Deseret News' policy to identify the religion of every accused/convicted murderer?

I feel for the families and friends of the victims.

NonMormon | 11:13 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

Please don't pretend like you Mormons are persecuted because a News agency published a worthy report about a Mormon boy who went on rampage to kill people. Accept the reality please!

fred86 | 11:24 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

forget mormons alot of mentally ill people are tarred with a brush far worse many mentally ill person force themselves to be aswell as they can be

Why is it | 11:35 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

that religious people spend their whole lives telling anyone that will listen how their religion has influenced and changed their lives and then in the next breath, when something goes wrong, they say that religion didnt influence them and shouldnt be mentioned! When something great happens they say 'he's LDS' when something bad happens they state how wrong it is to mention his faith!!

Cindy in CA | 12:32 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

It doesn't matter. Period. There are good and bad people in the world. Good and bad people in or out of whatever religion they choose. Bottom line, they are still God's children. Something terrible happened to innocent people, and something terrible happened to this soul of the killer. Nothing good has come out of it. But, maybe people can learn to love in spite of others weaknesses. It just shouldn't matter. Who cares what religion people are? These are all Children of God. Pray for all families affected.

another anonymous | 12:39 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

There are comments to every story. Good and bad. It's a shame this happened at all. But these things happen all the time no matter what religion the person belongs to.

The "Mormon" religion does NOT teach what that guy did. I'm sure no other Christian religion does either.

People have problems and they do horrible things. They always will. If he is mentally ill, he should have gotten help. If he had something in his life that he was angry about, he should have gotten it resolved.

Thank goodness I am not going to be his judge. But we are all entitled to our opinions.

peter. | 12:58 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Sincerly,as much as there are so many good people in the U.S.A,the country is SICK.Look, George Bush and mentio whowever, Look at the monthly shootings, the whole society is sick You need achange, if religion has some role in it, I think the non mormons do more worse things coz if you want to know,Look how Mitt is attacked by Abaptist, if i were Romney i could carry a gun and shoot that Mac guy thru the scull and go to Jail but since Romney is a mormon, he is forgiving, So you non mormons are only frustrated a bout the progress and good examples of mormons, I am planning to become one soon so that i can actually get to know why you hate them.You sick haters of mormons in the USA,MORMONISM is here to stay.
Peter AFRICA.

Mike | 1:34 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Ted Bundy was baptized Mormon too...big deal...For all you anti-mormons, get a life. For all the offended mormons...get a life too!!! Why are you all offended so easily? I think I learned in primary not to worry about what others say or do...This incident is tragic. but come on people stop worrying about what others say/judge about mormons...you'll be ok (and happier too!!!)

true blue | 1:47 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Who cares?

Craig ESTONIA | 1:55 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

The key line in most posts is What religion? It is a fact that most crime, suicide etc., is committed by religious folks. Just read all the bad stuff in the Bible and all the wars and killing in the BoM. More people are killed in the BoM than could have possibly existed in the time frame it covers. Atheists and Agnostics are the most peaceful, loving people, as they believe in the here and now and work to make this life better, not in the dreamland of retiring to Kolob and living daily with the depression and guilt that accompanies the fear created in their sunday schools every week.

Lisa | 4:55 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

The shooter was terminated a couple of years ago from the Youth Missionary program where he began his killing spree; he was baptized into the LDS church a year ago but stopped attending church. It seems to me that the guy desperately wanted to belong to some group and didn't fit in any where. Not to excuse his behavior, just pointing out that church groups can be cliquish (any faiths)and when an individuals with a strong need to attach to groups, can have problems when they can't assimilate.

Bookaholic | 5:29 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Too bad he didn't keep going to church. He might have been able to heal whatever holes he had in his life and head.

It always blows my mind when they mention that people are Mormon when they do something criminal. When was the last time you saw a headline such as--"Episcopalian Robs Bank"? Like, never?

We must be pretty upstanding citizens if it's so newsworthy when some member goes round the bend.

To: John | 8:48 p.m. Dec. 13 | 6:25 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

What religion did these murders have? The same religion - all of them - something other than Christianity.

"When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done."

It's a near certainty that none of these shooters had God in their life.

Clearly this guy was searching for God - but it is a fair conclusion that he never found Him.

I don't think people should be considering this Mountain Meadows II - though many will likely draw the analogy.

Anonymous | 6:25 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

It appears that this kid was somewhat of a drifter and possibly drifted in and out of many things including religion. I wonder if he ever was really converted to the LDS faith or any faith for that matter. I know that often missionaries feel pressure to have baptisms and too often someone comes by, finds some acceptance, makes some temporaty changes, says yes, gets baptised, attends a few meetings, and then drifts out and on to the next thing.

Tara | 6:30 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

The whole event was a very sad tradgedy. I think the whole Mormon thing came into it because LDS are considered peculiar people and only 2% of the US is LDS. If he was Jehovah's Witness or Muslim (also very small % of population) it would be disclosed. Since Christians are the overwhelming majority of American's most people know what they believe. I just find it sad that the LDS people are taking this as a personal attack. Grow up and quit being little babies and playing the "victim". People died, so quit whinning about your persecution.

truth | 6:32 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Please Read 1 Nephi 14:10 and tell me what church started attacking first.

Mom in Missouri | 6:49 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Amen!!

Matt | 7:00 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

As a mormon, anyone with a bone to pick against mormons will continue to view mormons as a group and not as individuals. The same is true for other religions, races, etc. I've known and befriended atheists who respect people without cramming their beliefs down everyone's throat.

We should not be discussing this tragedy in terms of "who else can we blame for Matt Murray's sins", but instead try to learn from this deeply torn man's circumstances. We don't have to 'save' people to be a good friend, and I think this is a common mistake among all sects. We rush to baptize, convert, and say "OK, my job is done". But if we really care, we should try to get them help. A Mormon missionary friend of mine who went to Russia had an experience that put this into perspective. During a big ice storm, he was helping a neighborhood family rebuild their home that was partially collapsed. A news reporter asked if this provided a good opportunity for sharing his message. he said 'How can I even think about that when this family has a fallen tree in their kitchen".

RE: Rhonda | 7:03 p.m. Dec. 13, | 7:10 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Rhonda, I understand your impulsive response and question about, "what does religion have to do with peoples senseless acts"...well, unfortunately history from the beginning of time has proved this point exactly. To name a few...Cane & Able (this was "religious"); Adolf Hitler; Spanish Inquisition; Jihad; French Wars of Religion; N. Ireland; Saxon Wars; Crusades...oh yeah and one more, what is happening today? The US is fighting the war on Terrorism (a.k.a - religous freaks). Anyway, just thought I would point out that religion plays a huge role in war, murder, senseless acts, etc...it always has and always will. Now to take what I said above and relate it to this story makes me a bit of a hypocrit, but in no way should this killers actions be linked to his baptism in the Mormon religion.

Odell | 7:23 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Typical Mormon convert. Although the LDS Church constantly boasts of its rapid growth rate. this example is typical of nearly all. There is inadequate preparation, a rushed baptism, and nearly instant inactivity from the LDS Church.

It would seem that the LDS church is more interested in pushing numbers than helping people. Had this person been properly taught, fellowshipped, included, uplifted, and loved, perhaps this tragedy may have been avoided. Who knows?

He is accountable for his own actions - the LDS Church isn't responsible.

Yet, I can help but believe that had he done something wonderful, the LDS Church and its members would have held him up and pushed his story through the media. It can't have it both ways.

Gee Fred | 7:50 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

And what is the reality there Fred that we "have" to accept? The kid was baptized Mormon. So was Arthur Gary Bishop. And a little overwieght and had brown hair. Did he wear glasses?

My question is do people do bad things? Do we paint everyone with the same brush because it fit's "our convience"?

Sometimes they try to straighten things out but don't quite make it.

Geeze, show some higher level thinking skills buddy.

GoodGuyGary | 8:03 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Reminds me about "Mormon Hijacked a Plane"...

Mean even with a testimony. | 8:04 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I'm troubled by the many negative things that many Mormons have posted including those that are really mean-spirited towards Matt Murray. We don't know his circumstances or his thoughts yet these narrow minded bigots make comments about how he was never converted or never had a testimony.

For all they know he may well have had a testimony even as he shot those poor people. Doing horrible things does not mean that you don't believe in God, or don't have a testimony of the gospel.

Let us now say to these un-Christlike posters "all of the horrible things you have done in your life don't mean you never had a testimony but the one horrible thing Matt Murphy did meant he never had a testimony." After all they are so much better than Matt Murphy and have already attained perfection.

We should also accept what they say at face value as they get up and bear testimony and conclude that they have done horrible things and therefore they like Matt Murphy never had a testimony. Or we could be more Christlike and not do to them what they are now doing to Matt Murphy in death.

LDS in Colorado | 8:05 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Funny, this didn't make the news in Colorado. Here, no one cares what religion you are. We all stand together as people of faith. Maybe you people in Utah should try it! This is one good Mormon girl who is glad she doesn't live in Utah! And yes, I grew up there! Leaving was the best thing I ever did and I am a better member of the Church for leaving. Those of you in Utah who are not Mormon, you need to grow up too. I have never lived in another place with such rude non-LDS "christians" as those who live in Utah. This kid was looking for acceptance anywhere he could find it. His home life was incredibly religious and sheltered. He didn't fit in. My guess is by joining the LDS Church he was looking to get attention from his family. He felt ignored and lost. HIs Uncle is a Minister! Joining the LDS Church was a negative attention getter. They say negative attention is better than no attention to person like this. Looks like he got all the attention he needs now. Pray for the victims, quit criticizing others!

blake | 8:25 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Okay...I am about as Anti-Mormon as possible. I disagree with the religion, not the people. However, I think the reason the Deseret News printed this information is because they print EVERYTHING of interest to LDS people. They print when an LDS person is made famous...they print when an LDS person is elected...they also print when an LDS person has made a horrible choice. I don't think it makes all Mormon people bad, but I do applaud the Deseret News for printing EVERYTHING if they are going to print some things.

Anonymous Jones | 8:26 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

To Odell: You make a lot of assumptions about this case. You don't know that his was a rushed baptism. You don't know that there was inadequate preparation, and you don't know what was done in the way of help and support after his baptism. You seem to believe that you can make accurate and sweeping judgments based on just a few facts about people you've never met and situations with which you are completely unfamiliar.

I can't help but think that LDS church leaders and members alike are sorry for what happened to this man and for those whose lives were taken or affected by his actions. And I can't help but believe that we'd all be better off if we could learn to give the benefit of a doubt instead of making stories in our own heads and calling them reality.

Not a Mormon | 8:28 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I'm not even a Mormon and I think this article is crazy. Who cares what religion the guy was their are plety of Muslims in the America, every guy that was responsible for 9-11 were Muslims. Get off this Mormon bashing.

Matt | 8:30 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

To all the people that claim that religion should not be mentioned when a person does such bad things, please remember to do the same when people do GOOD things. I can't even count the number of times I have heard some Mormon claim "Oh, so and so, is a Mormon!" with pride because they have done good or are famous. The number of times I've heard "Steve Young" and "Mormon" in the same sentence is sickening, not to mention the Osmonds. I have no doubt that all the people that claimed this person's religion should not be mentioned because religion can't be held accountable for the bad things people do, have claimed that religion is responsible when someone of the same religion does something good.

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