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'Gen XXX' findings surprising
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Sub-Odeon | 5:16 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Hey Bish @ 3:14 PM,
I would wager that of all your Ward members you suspect are into porn, or who have come forward about it with you, TWICE as many are doing it and not talking, and you never know any better. Maybe even one of your Counselors? The clerk? The Young Mens President?
Porn is not like crystal meth. Nor heroin. The "porn junky" is not obvious in the way a chemical "junky" is often obvious. Porn is also not an automatic trip to life-destruction, otherwise this entire country would be crawling with obliterated porn derelicts.
There is no question that too much porn, or overly hard porn, can be a problem. Especially with the young men, who are impressionable. I am not trying to say porn is always 100% harmless. I am saying that there are some times when "porn" (a moving target?) can and is beneficial to couples. Again, sex therapy? Could save a marriage. Even a temple marriage.
You speak of social interaction. I say half that battle comes from members being unable to talk to members because they fear being mocked, shunned, and ostracized. It happens all the time. On more issues than porn!
I would wager that of all your Ward members you suspect are into porn, or who have come forward about it with you, TWICE as many are doing it and not talking, and you never know any better. Maybe even one of your Counselors? The clerk? The Young Mens President?
Porn is not like crystal meth. Nor heroin. The "porn junky" is not obvious in the way a chemical "junky" is often obvious. Porn is also not an automatic trip to life-destruction, otherwise this entire country would be crawling with obliterated porn derelicts.
There is no question that too much porn, or overly hard porn, can be a problem. Especially with the young men, who are impressionable. I am not trying to say porn is always 100% harmless. I am saying that there are some times when "porn" (a moving target?) can and is beneficial to couples. Again, sex therapy? Could save a marriage. Even a temple marriage.
You speak of social interaction. I say half that battle comes from members being unable to talk to members because they fear being mocked, shunned, and ostracized. It happens all the time. On more issues than porn!
Mike | 5:49 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
I used to think porn was "bad", until ironically I went on a mission
to Japan and saw that it was a perfectly natural thing to view. Most people view
it on the subway or out in the open there. Porn magazines in vending machines
are everywhere. Japan has a very low sex crime rate too.
Comments continue below
To Sub-Odeon | 5:57 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Sub-Odeon,
You seem overly preoccupied with sex, and in my opinion, have a cheapening attitude towards it. Even though you say your wife is fine with it, I would imagine she would rather you didn't have a 'problem' with porn. You also said you were temple married, but I would ask are you a regular temple goer? I'm not trying to judge you, just pointing out some things I had to learn in my own life. Porn is wrong. There is no middle ground on this. How many people that have said Porn is OK, would feel comfortable if the Lord came into their home and found them looking at Porn instead of countless good things they could be doing.
You seem overly preoccupied with sex, and in my opinion, have a cheapening attitude towards it. Even though you say your wife is fine with it, I would imagine she would rather you didn't have a 'problem' with porn. You also said you were temple married, but I would ask are you a regular temple goer? I'm not trying to judge you, just pointing out some things I had to learn in my own life. Porn is wrong. There is no middle ground on this. How many people that have said Porn is OK, would feel comfortable if the Lord came into their home and found them looking at Porn instead of countless good things they could be doing.
Anonymous | 6:16 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
I'm a sex addict that never wanted to be one. Naturally, pornography is
part of the addiction, but sex addiction, like most addictions, is only partly
about sex. Most of the success I've had in dealing with my problem has
come from recognizing and addressing the fact that I use sex, or I should say
fantasy non-committal sex, as a drug to avoid the frightening, but ultimately
more satifying, task of developing and maintaining emotionally intimate
relationships. So I welcome this kind of study in the LDS world, and more
openness to discuss sexuality in general. Young people can learn to form
healthy intimate relationships while still remaining true to convictions on
chastity. But simply telling people, who are naturally sexual, not to look at
pornography and treating them as pariahs if they do, doesn't really help
much. Guilt is a friend to addiction. I believe that most people, if and when
they allow themselves to discover true intimacy and love, can control their
desires for the fake kind if they want to. Pornography fills a gap, but the
danger lies in that it often widens that gap to the point that it cannot be
easily closed.
utahkeith | 6:16 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Although I can see where "Porn" may have a place, it has victims.
Those who make it are victims whether they know it or not. Those who use it are
victims of it whether they know it or not. Mr. Anonymous who says it has helped
improve the "sex life" between him and his wife, it is degrading to
her, and isn't there a difference between "Sex & Making
Love"? Getting her arroused by the use of pornography is
"EXPLOITATION" not the fine art of Seduction. Pornography is Degrading
and Destructive to ALL it touches whether they know it or not. It can become
addictive, and leads to "Numbing" which in turn draws one to desire
deeper perversions to "Get Off", and from there it get deeper and
deeper. This is something that can become a problem and destroy families. I have
seen it first hand. My advice, Stay Away From It, if you use it, Stop Now! If it
is a problem GET HELP, Seek theropy, and if it isn't then stop before it
becomes a problem! This is my advice. to those who "favor it", there
will come a day when you will regret your use of it.
Sex Ed Advocate | 8:53 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Just a quick comment.
I feel our society in general lacks big time in the sex education department. I'm a big advocate of sex ed at school and at home, at young ages. Kids need to learn it from their parents and teachers - not some dirty web site. I think properly educated kids (expecially boys) are less likely to get curious and end up addicted to porn.
Where I went to school (in the 80s) the sex ed was late and poor in our public school. My parents were even worse - they're old school and sex was a taboo subject. I love 'em and think they did a great job generally, but they missed out on that one.
I'm curious if any of you agrees with this assessment or not. Would better sex ed help kids stay away from porn?
I feel our society in general lacks big time in the sex education department. I'm a big advocate of sex ed at school and at home, at young ages. Kids need to learn it from their parents and teachers - not some dirty web site. I think properly educated kids (expecially boys) are less likely to get curious and end up addicted to porn.
Where I went to school (in the 80s) the sex ed was late and poor in our public school. My parents were even worse - they're old school and sex was a taboo subject. I love 'em and think they did a great job generally, but they missed out on that one.
I'm curious if any of you agrees with this assessment or not. Would better sex ed help kids stay away from porn?
Mahershalalhashbaz | 11:13 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Porn makes people stupid. Every person I know who openly admits to watching
porn are failures. One friend, still in college after 7 years, can't
figure out why he can't pass classes with more than a C or D. Usually a D.
Porn user=porn brain=porn success=no success. Just the facts.
simple question... | 12:13 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007
I am a single guy who was very sexually active. Now it comes down to one
question... Do I want a kid or not? Do I want AIDS or not? Do I want an STD or
not? Porn has its downs, but sometimes its better than the alternative.
LDS Soldier | 2:07 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007
I'm in the Army where porn is everywhere and accepted by most Soldiers as
socially ok. Who wants to guess what one of my Soldiers was arrested for last
week??? Well, I guarantee you that if he didn't have a porn problem he
would not be in jail right now.
I actually read all the posts. People are out of touch with reality. Some say porn makes people stupid, I know a lot of very smart people that are addicted. I know plenty of others, LDS and non-LDS that have issues...I feel for their wives who are pretty much forced to accept their husband's behavior. The men open about their porn with friends are so disrespectful when it comes to their wives when just the guys are around. Those hiding it or trying to say it's ok are just asking for trouble.
Don't think I'm naive with this. I did have my own problems when I was a kid. I'm thankful I got over them...it would have destroyed me.
Please monitor what your teenagers and spouses do on the internet and don't be afraid to confront them! Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
I actually read all the posts. People are out of touch with reality. Some say porn makes people stupid, I know a lot of very smart people that are addicted. I know plenty of others, LDS and non-LDS that have issues...I feel for their wives who are pretty much forced to accept their husband's behavior. The men open about their porn with friends are so disrespectful when it comes to their wives when just the guys are around. Those hiding it or trying to say it's ok are just asking for trouble.
Don't think I'm naive with this. I did have my own problems when I was a kid. I'm thankful I got over them...it would have destroyed me.
Please monitor what your teenagers and spouses do on the internet and don't be afraid to confront them! Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
Huckster | 10:26 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007
It amazes me how sheltered and naive so many people are about sex and porn given
all the know about it was they are told by their LDS leaders. My sister and her
husband have been married for over thirty years, have great children, and a
strong successful marriage. Every year for Christmas, as a gift, my sister
renews her husbands subscription to Penthouse Magazine. They've watched
countless x rated movies together, loaned out many to my wife and me. I love how
people throw around the sex offender link and such. Maybe sex offenders look at
porn, but that does not mean everyone who looks at porn is a sex offender! Most
of us are normal, well adjusted, sexually rounded human beings. And that's
including our wives and girlfriends too!
pseudonymous | 11:27 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007
It's pretty obvious from these comments that lots of people in Utah still
live in fear of their libidos. A few are trying to talk sense to the
fear-filled masses, but it's not doing much good.
Porn is just a symptom of greater sexual dysfunction.
You want to "defeat" the porn epidemic, you must first defeat the sexual dysfunction at the root of it.
And you don't defeat sexual dysfunction by being fearful of sex, sexual relations, or the body.
It's fear which drive most men, and some women, to seek sexual satisfaction through artificial means in the first place. And fear which keeps us from being honest about our needs, wants, desires, and discussing them with our partners.
Porn is just a symptom of greater sexual dysfunction.
You want to "defeat" the porn epidemic, you must first defeat the sexual dysfunction at the root of it.
And you don't defeat sexual dysfunction by being fearful of sex, sexual relations, or the body.
It's fear which drive most men, and some women, to seek sexual satisfaction through artificial means in the first place. And fear which keeps us from being honest about our needs, wants, desires, and discussing them with our partners.
Arm of Orion | 11:43 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007
Hukster refer to my post on Dec 13 12:58 I said that 100% of the serial rapists,
or rapists in general, use porn I never said that all those who look at porn
turn into rapists. Now then with that out of the way there seems to be definite
link between the two. Yes, sex is not a bad thing in and of itself in fact I
believe it to be the most sacred. What I do find bad is that because we are now
a society driven by pleasure we fail to realize the consequences of sleeping
with every person, at least I hope, we are attracted to. We have a
responsibility to not endanger humanity through STDs and unwanted children who
become angry disaffected and perpetuate self-destrucive attitudes.
Huckster | 12:26 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007
Arm of Orion, so your solution is to do away with porn, and sex offenders
won't offend? I think you need to dig deeper to the actual root of their
problems. Porn is not the reason why they rape or abuse.
Cool people from CVHS | 1:07 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007
Look, pornography is bad. If you take the initiative to get out of it you can
do it! If you don't get out of it, you will face the consequences of that
addiction. It WILL happen!
If you really respect your neighbor why would you want to look at them in such a degrading way?
Why would you choose a computer screen, or magazine page over a real live person or friend?
If you really respect your neighbor why would you want to look at them in such a degrading way?
Why would you choose a computer screen, or magazine page over a real live person or friend?
Skeptic | 1:32 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007
"Why would you choose a computer screen, or magazine page over a real live
person or friend?"
This is a pretty ironic question asked by a guy who is not having a conversation face-to-face but is posing it to strangers on the internet. Just a hunch, but I bet he/she reads magazines as well.
This is a pretty ironic question asked by a guy who is not having a conversation face-to-face but is posing it to strangers on the internet. Just a hunch, but I bet he/she reads magazines as well.
Logical Guy | 2:09 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007
None of the reputable (i.e., apolitical and secular) studies that have been
performed has ever found a cause-and-effect relationship between porn and sex
crime. Why do some people keep insisting that there is one? The imagined harm
that's supposed to result from to porn is speculative.
Even cooler kids @ CVHS | 2:39 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007
He that hath clean hands and a pure heart...Psalms 24:3-4
Ore LDS | 3:28 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007
There are multiple degrees of sexual perversion. ALL ARE BAD. The natural man
is an enemy of GOD. I can only hope you wise up before it is too late for some
of you.
Porn is NOT good and NEVER will be.
Porn is NOT good and NEVER will be.
To Huckster | 3:34 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007
Maybe you and your sister should be asking yourself why it takes looking at porn
to make being intimate with your spouses enjoyable. Makes no sense to me.
Ore LDS | 2:56 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007
2nd Timothy 3:4 ... lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God.
Sign of trouble for some. I believe this article and others, along with the posts of many here, describe the condition of society well and fulfil this prophecy.
For those who believe they are different porn does not affect them as it does others, you are only deciving yourselves. Addiction, in an overwhelming number of cases, does not happen with the first exposure, but in nearly all cases through repeated exposure.
Just as alcohol does not make a person commit a crime, many crimes are committed because of a lack of judgement or impairment from consuming alcohol so it is with other things like porn. Porn feeds an appetite and when the appetite becomes too great often innocent people are hurt.
I have empathy for the state of being the consumers of porn are putting themselves in. I would not want to be where they are, but people can change. However like many here have stated, change is not easy and only gets harder the more addicted you become.
Sign of trouble for some. I believe this article and others, along with the posts of many here, describe the condition of society well and fulfil this prophecy.
For those who believe they are different porn does not affect them as it does others, you are only deciving yourselves. Addiction, in an overwhelming number of cases, does not happen with the first exposure, but in nearly all cases through repeated exposure.
Just as alcohol does not make a person commit a crime, many crimes are committed because of a lack of judgement or impairment from consuming alcohol so it is with other things like porn. Porn feeds an appetite and when the appetite becomes too great often innocent people are hurt.
I have empathy for the state of being the consumers of porn are putting themselves in. I would not want to be where they are, but people can change. However like many here have stated, change is not easy and only gets harder the more addicted you become.
bodhi k | 3:56 p.m. Dec. 17, 2007
I beleive that humans have two things driving them -Survival and Reproduction. I
also believe that humans are not equiped to live in the world the way it is now.
for thousands and thousands of years, we have not had the availiability to have
what ever we ant at the push of a button. For all of those years, we have lived
in primative conditions that most of us could not handle today. We as a race are
not equiped to handle all of the stimuli and rapid advancement of technology,
information, products, etc. I think porn is a huge problem with no solution. As
long as humans want to survive there is always going to be the need for sexul
release. Humans are adicts in one form or annother
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When did I say I didn't accept those who abhor porn? I actually said that I understand why people do. While I did not clearly say, "I accept those who abhor porn," that is what I meant.
I'm also fine with people stating their opinions and beliefs, much like you and I did. It is when people start forcing their opinions and beliefs onto others that gets to me.
MY opinion is that society needs to learn how to discuss topics more civilized. To state one's opinions and beliefs, let the other(s) state theirs, discuss them and accept each other. If someone wants to change their opinions or beliefs, so be it. But we shouldn't continue to tell people theirs are wrong and ours are right. It will only generate more hate in this world.
Who is to say one religion is correct and another isn't? That one's likes are better than another's? It's like saying Green is better than Blue. It is purely opinion.