Deseret News | Pundit bashes Mitt, Mormons

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Scott D. Pierce: Pundit bashes Mitt, Mormons

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Iron Axe | 10:23 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Is he related to Rosie??? never heard of him and could care less what he has to say, means nothing to me, he sounds like he wants to be known for something.........His rant should be on the WHATEVA
Department.............

wow | 10:25 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Wow....O'Donnel needs the spirit! Haha, that mans life must be misserable.

Hyrum from Salt Lake | 10:25 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Who cares what some loon says about the LDS church? From what I've seen, the whole purpose of that particular program is to give a forum for spouting rants. So why are we surprised when someone goes of on a rant?

On a side note, please, don't go saying "I forgive you for being an ignorant bigot." That kind of statement is just name calling with a self-rightous twist, and doesn't help your argument.

Comments continue below

Occam | 10:27 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

To "Occam that is not true":

Doctrine and Covenants 1:30 provides:

30 "And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individuallyï¿½"

It is church doctrine that it is the only true and living church upon the face of the earth. The Church claims it is the only church that holds the authority to conduct God's ordinances. I don't think that that issue is really disputable. And if you make those claims, then those claims should be subject to scrutiny. It is spiritually and intellectually dishonest to claim to be God's only true Church on the one hand, and then to claim religious bigotry anytime anybody attacks the veracity of those claims.

james stowe | 10:28 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Godd for him, I am with him all the way.

Educated Literate | 10:29 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

TO WOW:

As early as 1852, Brigham Young said that the "time will come when they, (members of african descent) will have the privilege of all we have the privilege of and more" (Brigham Young Papers, Church Archives, Feb. 5, 1852). This is true today, as several west African nations like Ghana and Nigeria are embracing the LDS faith and DON'T about the past...but...let's address the issue with FACTS shall we?

All men, including Church leaders, are influenced by the culture of their times. The Apostle Peter, the man personally chosen by Jesus Christ as the lead apostle, was prejudiced against those not of the Jewish race (Acts 10-11).

Since the very beginnings of the LDS Church members of African descent have been members in NON-SEGREGATION LDS congregations...something the other christian religions CONDEMNED. In 1995, Pentecostals formed one umbrella organization to bring white and black congregations together, and there's a proposal by Methodists to do the same thing with AME (African Methodist Episcopal), CME (Christian Methodist Episcopal), AMEZ (African Methodist Episcopal Zion) and ME (Methodist Episcopal, predominantly white) churches." The LDS Church, unlike other religions NEVER had segregated congregations.

troll | 10:32 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Apparently this O'Donnel is a perfect man since he can take the initaitive to put down an entire religion.
It makes me very sad to hear someone put down a church which has brought forth so much good fruit,
When someone sees a few things they don't like in something, they ignore all the positive, even if the good outweighs the bad 10 to 1.
Makes no sense to me.

Occam | 10:37 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Aghast:

Here is some history for you to read: ï¿½In [March] 1826 Joseph Smith was 21 [20] and at this point was midway between the FIRST VISION and 1830 [BoM publication]. What a strange time to be convicted of fraud ï¿½ fraudulently getting money after convincing the victim that he could detect the whereabouts of hidden treasure on the victimï¿½s land. Wow.... It is as genuine and sound as can be ï¿½ published right in Joseph Smithï¿½s own camp.ï¿½

- Thomas Ferguson to James Boyack, March 13, 1971; see Mormon Mavericks: Essays on Dissenters, pp. 261-262

I can cut and past the court transcript for you if you like. Put down your Nibley and do some real research with an open mind. Joseph Smith was a dynamic and charismatic individual who created one of the most interesting religions of our time. But he was also convicted of fraud.

Kevin | 10:40 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Mr. O'Donnell is a complete sham, his lack of personal self restraint shows a negative bias toward the LDS faith. In a country that prides itself in religious freedom It is incredulous that he be allowed a national pulpit to spread this kind of ignorant hate. Mr O'Donnell I hope this comes back to you hundred fold. For someone who prides themself on their knowledge and education, this kind of rant blatantly disregards both. Thanks for letting us see who you really are

Paul in Vancouver | 10:41 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Why does any religion or group or race allow this to continue. Imus made a stupid remark and he paid for it. O'Donnel makes a much more serious mistake and 'He is entertainment'?. My dad always said "son make sure you brain is in gear before you put your mouth in motion". Wonder what O'Donnel was thinking before running off at the mouth. Wipe Please.

TR_ue | 10:46 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Here's the Mormon Churches Official position on bigotry: If you don't think like us you are one.

O'Donnell | 10:52 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I watched the rant live. He had the whole panel speechless. He was unprofessional and out of control. It was an embarassment for himself and the whole group.

I won't watch the "Group" or Big Love again, not out of protest, but because if this out-of-control jerk is allowed to have his tantrums, I don't really want to see another.

CJem | 10:55 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

It is always funny to me the way people point to the mormon church as racist, totally ignoring American history. Racism has been pervasive in the US since the earliest days of colonization to the present. The KKK was strongest in the bible belt states. Martin Luther King did his work in the southern states. I remember the story when Jimmy Carter was elected president his local church would not allow african americans as members. While traveling with my family in the 1960s, I saw the whites only - blacks only drinking fountains and restrooms in the southern states. My own home town, not in Utah, was racially divided. I didn't have black classmates until junior high school, when they were bussed from the other side of town. Segregation by race was sanctioned by the US Supreme Court until the 1950s and 1960s. The 1964 Civil Rights Act was a product, in part, of the emotional turmoil following the assasination of President Kennedy. I could go on with other examples, but the point is that these people who like to point the fingers at the mormon church show an amazing ignorance of race relations in the US.

Shim Hill | 10:59 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Just boycott Lawrence.
The caravan moves on.

Mike R. | 11:00 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

O'Donnell needs to research his part in Big Love a little better to find out just what Mo's believe.

Joseph Smith was not a racist. The church was not racist prior to 1978. Joseph Smith was not a criminal or rapist. The church has never condoned slavery nor enouraged it even though individual members did have slaves. Why do you think that we got kicked out of Missouri?

It just shows what type of idiot that he is. After all, he has a bigger audience on the McLaughlin Group than watches MSNBC or CNBC.

Send your comments to McLaughlin and lambast this butthead.

Just the Facts | 11:02 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Joseph Smith did go to trial over a charge of trying to defraud others by claiming to be able to find lost or buried treasure by, among other ways, the use of a stone. He was NOT convicted of that but did apologize and promise not to further engage in that activity and was asked to leave town. Everyone makes mistakes and JS was very young when this occurred. But LDS members need to realize that this is an issue of credibility for some because JS admittedly used the stone technique BEFORE any angelic visitation or calling and then later used the same technique of somehow using a stone (described as reading from it when placed into a hat) to translate at least a portion of the Book of Mormon. It is also a fact that many LDS leaders said dark skin was the result of choices made in the pre-existence. And we all know dark skin prevented otherwise worthy males from receiveing the Priesthood until 1978. The MSNBC rant was inexusable, but members need to realize that to many otherwise sympathetic and reasonable non-member - there is a lot of troubling LDS doctrine/history that is easily confirmed.

Robo | 11:04 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

The policy of denying blacks the priesthood was NOT established by Joseph Smith, but by Brigham Young. Joseph Smith had actually ordained some black men to the priesthood. This "policy," not doctrine, was carried forward until 1978, although discussions of changing it were started by David O. McKay in the late 1950s. President McKay said during this time "There is not now, and there never has been a doctrine in this Church that the Negroes are under a divine curse. We believe that we have scriptural precedent for withholding the priesthood from the Negro. It is a practice, not a doctrine, and the practice will some day be changed. And that's all there is to it." And it was changed in 1978. People need to realize there is a difference between doctrine, which comes out under the signature of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve, and historic statements made alone by various church leaders implying the curse theory which are just opinion. Because of this past misunderstanding, most modern era books by church leaders contain a statement in the preface to that effect. Finally, why can't a revelation also be politically expedient? Are you limiting God?

jt | 11:06 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

"Lawrence O'Donnell is a bigot, pure and simple."

You write your article and I'll draw my own conclusions, than you very much. Was this an editorial, because I thought I got it from the news section?

Peace... | 11:27 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

To anyone concerned about this guy's rant, do not be discouraged. Yes, his comments were filled with the ugly part of hate and should induce outrage among all people, but in the end it won't really matter.

We know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will never again leave the earth. We also know that it will continue to grow and flourish in the last days. There will be many who have, and will continue, to do anything to derail the church, speak lies and falsehoods, and promote the ugliest slander from their TV pulpits. I, for one, am so grateful for the restored gospel and know of it's goodness. I, too, saw the miracle of conversion on my mission, from all walks of life whether they where black or white. I condemn anyone who speaks out against something that I hold so dear, but I also realize that in so doing, it will continue.

It's unfortunate and sad that these people are in such a miserable state that they feel it necessary to ignorantly put down a church that brings peace and happiness to so many peoples lives.

Simon Says | 11:30 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

To Lawrence O'Donnell: Shame on you, you pathetic, sad excuse for a human being. I played a Catholic Priest once in a play when I was 7 years old. So, if anyone has questions on Catholicism just ask me, I am an expert! Get a life buddy! Hey didn't Mel Ginson get into a ton a trouble for yelling some anti-semetic comments recently (fairly private compared to the great Mr. O'Donnell) - imagine if he had done it publicly on TV. Shame on all of you sad, sad bigots. Perhaps there is something to the LDS claim of truth - if it wasn't true, why all the publicity. If the LDS church is as the very informed Mr. O"Donnell and other bigots claim, why spend so much of your precious time trashing it. Once again get a life!

Perspective Please!!! | 11:33 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

To me, the issues that have been raised about LDS doctrine and history for years and that are now being made very public largely due to Mitt Romney, are relevant to one's personal opinion or testimony of whether the LDS Church is or is not the only true and restored church as it claims. The issues are NOT relevant as to the goodness of the Church today, the character of it's members or the qualifications of Mitt Romney as a Presidential candidate. I have and continue to ponder issues such as various first vision accounts, polygamy, seer stones, dark skin doctrines, Book of Abraham translations, BofM archeology, etc. in my personal and ongoing struggle with my own testimony. But in so doing, I recognize the wonderful works of the Church and it's members (which do not make the Church true or not true) and am able to look at Mitt's qualifications or lack thereof seperate from his religous beliefs. Issues that have and will continue to be raised about LDS doctrine and history ARE relevant - but only to the question of whether or not one accepts the Church's claim of truthfullness - nothing more.

Justin | 11:34 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

It is sad to me that there has not been a stronger national response to Larry's outburst. However, I do appreciate those not of the LDS (Mormon) faith who have voiced their objections to his bigoted rant. It seems to me that this situation calls for a non-political response. I wish that Harry Reid would pubilcally condemn this attack on religion despite his opposition to Mitt Romney's candidacy.

To Occam | 11:43 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Your anti-LDS are laughable. Let me sum it up: Some people have claimed certain things about LDS Church Founders that you dislike. Some church practices or former policies go against what you think. Therefore the LDS church and all its teachings are wrong.

Yeah, sounds like a valid use of deductive logic.

What are you trying to prove?

I'm pretty sure that you actually are just trying to justify your beliefs by attacking the beliefs of others - maybe you should "open your eyes" and see what you are actually doing. You seeking out other people to attack is evidence of your own failed attempt to justify your own beliefs. So, why do you hate the LDS church? Is it because you fell because of sin? Is it envy?

Whatever your reason, it boils down to your inability to justify your convictions to yourself, which is why you then proceed to attack repeatedly anyone who counters your omniscient and undoubtedly perfect view of the universe.

Guess what, I'm never going to come back to read your rebuttal to this comment. That will make you stew because you're sure you could prove me wrong.

I just don't need your validation.

Roger | 11:45 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Mr. Oï¿½Donnellï¿½s slurs about Joseph Smith were really beyond the pale. How he thinks that such a vibrant, generous, loving church and people could be founded by what he considers such a charlatan and degenerate is incomprehensible. It must be, in Mr. Oï¿½Donnellï¿½s mind, that Mitt Romney, Harry Reid, fourteen other members of congress, half the population of the State of Utah and a total of 13 million people worldwide must be incurable dupes and fools.

To not do so is the essence of bigotry. The evidence is so overpowering that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is composed primarily of good, upstanding citizens and that it does so much good in the world; that any fair minded person would at least give the benefit of a doubt to the founder of the religion and to its adherents; and would view the religion with at least a modicum of tolerance.

Mr. Oï¿½Donnell's rants reminded me of the worst of the bigots during the civil rights era ï¿½ an unreasoning and uninformed hatred echoing much of the religious and racial intolerance of the past.

It takes one... | 11:46 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

TO TR-ue

The Mormon Church's official position on bigotry is scripture published as their eleventh article of faith i.e., 11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
The position you gave is sadly your own.

Matt: to Occam | 11:49 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

As a member of the church I completely understand how some aspects of our faith can seem difficult to believe. Joseph Smith himself recognized the skepticism with which the world would approach his life. In regards the Book of Mormon, have you read it? You claim that the gold plates discovered by Joseph were fraudelent. We don't have to wonder: the Book of Mormon is the tangible result of those gold plates. Study the book and ask yourself if an uneducated farm boy from rural New York could have written it. Or try yourself to write a 565 page book that includes the history of four civilizations, numerous characters and their stories, detailed descriptions of geography and customs, powerful and varied sermons, and remember that you only have 3 months to do it (the amount of time in which the Book of Mormon was translated). The Book of Mormon stands for itself, it's just sad that people will read everything about the book, but won't examine the book itself.

Unfortunate | 12:01 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

It is truly unfortunate that a presidential candidate cannot run based solely on his own credentials. Whether you think Mitt is qualified or not, it is ridiculous to debate the "dark side" of the LDS church, and when and why the black members of the church could hold the priesthood to determine his worthiness to run for president. My viewpoint is, belief is an individual perception. I am LDS. I choose to believe the teachings of that church. It is the same for one of my dearest friends. She is Greek Orthodox Catholic. She chooses to believe the teaching of her church. Will I ever convert her to the mormon church? No. Will she ever convert me to catholic church? No. We work for the same employer, in the same position, for the same pay. We have the same skills, knowledge, and abilities. True, we also have different strengths and weaknesses. IF we looked to one's religion, or lack of, to judge if someone was qualified for a job, the unemployment rate would be much, much higher. There are laws that state we cannot discriminate based on religon. My question is, What is so different about Mitt?

Veronica from Orem | 12:16 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Boo Hoo, poor l'il mormons, can't take an attack or two now and then. But it's OK for you cheap shot prevaricators to lie through your rotten teeth about your beliefs, just to make them sound mainstream. Admit it, you are all just a bunch of whining money grabbers - that's what mormonism is all about and that's why you perpetrate a century and a half of obvious lies.

to Robo | 12:22 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Where did you get the quote from David O. McKay?

Anonymous | 12:25 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

While I think that Mr. O'Donnell's comments were off the mark and spiteful, I can't help but think about the undertones of his comments. Throughout this campaign Mitt has become the "face" of the Mormon community to a significant portion of America who isn't familiar with the LDS church. Mormonism has made him distinct and that creates fear in some. Barack and Hillary are in the same boat. They are perceived as different just because of who they are. I empathize with anyone courageous enough to run in a presidential campaign and has to withstand the assaults and attacks made on their gender, race, lifestyle, and even religion. While it is sad that bigoted attacks still occur, I find hope that these people are the minority in a country that does value life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

mr. soup | 12:28 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

It ain't bigotry if it's true.

Anonymous | 12:28 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Secularists, and those of us who believe religion has no place whatsoever in the political arena, we seem to be still in the 'ok to kick around' column, too.

Re: Veronica | 12:29 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

We can take our attacks, but so long as they're based on factual information and not spewed from some idiotic bigot (probably the category you fall into). I think one of the previous posts had it correct when they quoted Dale Carnegie, "Any Fool and condmen, criticize and complain...and most Fools do" Veronica, you are welcome to your opinion, but you are a fool for how you state that opinion.

Dutchman | 12:31 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

To Just the Facts: The priesthood policy was never about skin color. The Church sent missionaries to the Hawaiian and polynesian islands since almost its beginning and converted thousands to the religion and ordained the worthy "dark skinned" males to the priesthood. Early on blacks visited Salt Lake City from the time of Brigham Young, Joseph F. Smith, Heber J Grant, George Albert Smith, and David O. Mckay seeking ordinations to the priesthood. None of these visitors were ever dismissed out of hand or treated maliciously. All were told in essence, be patient the time will come when this will change. It finally did.

JIM from CA | 12:36 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

PBS,MSNBC & Larry O`DONNELL are good reasons why BIRTH CONTROL SHOULD BE RETROACTIVE !!!!!!!! I DON'T WATCH MSNBC OR PBS FOR THIS REASON!!!!!

To: To Robo | 12:41 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I found the quote regarding Pres. McKay posted by Robo on "blacklds.org" It is from a newspaper article in of all places, the Salt Lake Tribune, in 1970. "Blacklds" also has a picture of the newsstory for verification.

Just cut and paste the quote into Google and you will find the link.

Adam | 12:43 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

My best friend is a Catholic priest, and guess what? He DOESN'T molest kids!

Look at every religion, every denomination of that religion, every sect of that religion, every minute subsection of that religion, and you will find good people AND scum. Why? Because whether we go to a mosque, synagogue, church, whatever, we are human beings. Nobody has a monopoly on good, and nobody has a monopoly on evil.

Anonymous | 12:45 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

To comments@mclaughlin.com:

Lawrence Oï¿½Donnell went too far when he opened his intolerant mouth against the Mormons on ï¿½The McLaughlin Group.ï¿½ In his bigoted, ad hominem rant earlier this week, Oï¿½Donnell didnï¿½t simply attack Romney, he attacked his church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). Had he used such hateful and inflammatory (and inaccurate) speech against the Jewish or any other religion, heï¿½d have at once become a pariah and been labeled a hate-monger and a bigot, and he possibly would have been sacked from the program, a la Imus! But I wonder if you see it this way. Unfortunately, anti-Mormon bigotry is one of the few remaining acceptable prejudices in the world.

But his diatribe was not just mean and unsubstantive, it was laden with lies. As a matter of fact:
ï¿½Blacks have been baptized members of the church ever since its inception in the early 1800s.
ï¿½Mormons were strongly against slavery. In fact, when Joseph Smith ran as president of the United States, he ran on an anti-slavery platform.

The world would be a better place if Lawrence Oï¿½Donnell were to refrain from spewing such hatred on the airwaves.

bored at work.. | 12:46 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

He obviously is ignorant and doesn't have his facts straight. It is true, had he said those things about any other religion he would have been fired. Its too bad the LDS religion doesn't receive any respect regardless of the good it actually does in the world. Its sad those things were said.

It'll get much worse.... | 12:49 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I am not shocked at the venomous hate coming out of peoples mouths about Mormonism, its par for the course. What I am shocked about is that so many other Mormons are shocked. I mean, you had to have known the second an LDS person ran for president, all the anti-Mormon folks were gonna come out of the woodwork in force. If you think O'Donnell's rant was offensive and you took it personally, then you aren't going to make it much longer. Trust me, it will get MUCH worse before it ever gets better.
I predict the persecution of those of the LDS faith will become an accepted way of doing business in this country, unfortunatly. My advice for other Mormons: better find a way to grow a thick skin cause you're gonna be attacked harder and more viciously than you've ever thought. No one said that taking on HIS name and following HIS path was going to be easy. Just remember to forgive others of their hate towards you and love those less fortunate. ....and oh yea, buy teflon clothes =).

To Matt | 1:03 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

This is not Occam but I wanted to comment on your response. I agree that, in the end, one must thoughtfully and prayerfully actually read the book to come to an honest and personal opinion or testimony.

But in terms of your challenge to write something similar in 3 months:

Joseph Smith actually had possession of the plates for approximately 21 months prior to finishing his work. There is record of JS beginning translation of some of the characters found on the plates in January 1828 (approximately 17 months prior to completion). The 116 lost pages were translated several months prior to completion. In addition, Lucy Mack Smith's personal writings suggest that Joseph Smith talked about native american cultures, peoples, practices, etc. for years before even receiving the plates. So in terms of a timeframe, it can be reasonably concluded that Joseph Smith at least spoke about and began the process of writing/translating the Book of Mormon anywhere from 17 months to several years prior to the finished product.

John | 1:12 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

To Veronica from Orem......You hate the Mormons...you don't have to live around them. Move.

ebony and ivory | 1:13 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

hey robo..where can i find the curse about becoming the most persecuted people on earth or is it here on the blog already...oh my...oh my can't go on.

The Mormon Problem for Romney | 1:14 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

There are three religion issues that won't go away, as seen from the eyes of non-Mormons, that will dog Romney throughout his campaign for the Presidency (whether he's aware of them, or not):

1) Mormons proselytize other Christians, stealing families from their congregations. This is a really big sticking point for Evangelicals.

2) Mormons are racist because they took so long to give blacks the Priesthood. It dosn't matter that they eventually did. There's still that stigma.

3) Mormons practiced polygamy, and they still do? Unbelievably, people still wonder, probably because church breakoffs in and near Utah still do.

These three are the sticking points for people who don't want to vote for someone they can't trust---the lack of trust being their perception of these religious issues as being real problems.

doctorfixit | 1:18 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I don't trust any politician who trades on their religion, which is none of my business, and which is none of the government's business either. I am particularly averse to sanctimony, whether it comes from Jimmy Carter, Huckleberry Huckster, Romney, or Hillary doing a horrible drawl impersonation in a Baptist Church. Makes me want to puke. People who say they're in politics to make the world a better place should be locked up. Those who say Jesus told them to do it should be hung shortly afterward.

hey also | 1:18 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

tell em to be honest in all their dealings because it is the flip floping and double standards that will get em.

To Dutchman | 1:21 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Thank you for the correction. You are right that the "Priesthood" policy only applied to those with black or african blood rather than just "dark skin" as my post suggested. However, early church leaders did say that dark skin (specifically stating chinese as an example) in general was the result of choices made in the pre-existence.

Fred Vader | 1:22 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

J. Golden Kimball comments on the KKK

"The most difficult thing Golden faced on his second mission was harassment by the Ku Klux Klan. In the years following the Civil War, the Klan was a powerful and intimidating force in the Old south. Along with Jews, Catholics, and African Americans, Mormons were targets for tar and feathering, whipping, and murder."

"'Waste of a good sheet,' was Golden's opinion."

"He described to his brother Elias how the Klan dressed. 'They cover themselves in a white sheet and there's a hood for the head with two small openings for their eyes. This hood has a point to it, which is more than could be said for their beliefs.'"

"Mormon missionaries were accused by the Klan of seducing the wives and daughters of the White South to be taken back to live in polygamous slavery in Utah. Golden said one only had to look at their wives and daughters to know that such a thing couldn't possibly be true. Even polygamists have standards."

J. Golden Kimball Stories: Mormonism's Colorful Cowboy copyright 1999 White Horse Books

Are you kidding me??? | 1:23 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

"Secularists, and those of us who believe religion has no place whatsoever in the political arena, we seem to be still in the 'ok to kick around' column, too."
You are the ones leading the charge with steel toed boots!

ep1433 | 1:31 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I saw the epispode in question and I was stunned by the venom flowing from O'Donnell. I served a mission of rth eLDS church and encountered everything under the sun - good and bad. But O'Donnell takes the cake. This was a spittle flying, veins bulging, finger pointing angry rant. But I don't see any reason he should be fired. Bigotry is not illegal. Besides, he just made himself look foolish. Pat Buchannon's (whose sister is LDS) defense was perfect.

But I don't worry about losers like O'Donnell and their words. It's justthe grwoing pains of teh LDS faith coming to the forefront of American conciousness. Jehovah's Witnesses or other faiths would kill for this kind of attention (OK they are pacifists so they wouldn't actualy kill but you get the point).

But do me one favor: When HBO tries to assure you that Big Love (in which O'Donnell is an actor and writer)is not a slam on Mormons, don't beleive a word of it. It is obviuosly just a subtle outlet for the kind of verbal poo poo that spews forth from O'Donnell.

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