Reader comments
Is issue over competition for souls?

For the last time, it is very simple. If you believe that God created all things, then he created Satan too. That makes him our brother, like it or not. GOD CREATED SATAN!!!!! THERE, I SAID IT!!!! He did. And if he didn't, God then ceases to be God because that means someone else created Satan.

I find it interesting that the party that is the most accepting of Mormons and their beliefs is the Democrats. But most Mormons, at least in Utah, find themselves in the Republican Party, the right wing of which preaches the gospel of hate and exclusion. If you are looking for a party that matches your religious beliefs, you should look elsewhere.

The Pharisees debated Christ and argued his credentials as the savior. Their credentials: we are the children of Abraham. To which the Savior replied that he could raise up children to Abraham from stones.

They didn't get it. He was then and is now the Savior of ALL mankind - everyone! He did not tag ANYONE as being the only acceptable candidates to be "lifted up" when he comes, other than those who believe on him and keep his commandments.

Today's evangelical christians are the modern day equivalent of Old Jerusalem's Pharisees. They protect their image and wealth by saying they are the only true disciples of christ - yet they deny revelation, prophesy, and prayers from the heart. They are the people Isaiah spoke of with itching ears who seek out TV Evangelists that say what they want to hear and entertain them with dancing, rock music and fiery sermons .... then require only the words "Jesus Save Me" as a sign if repentance, and not the heart and sole of the sinner who desires to be a child of God.

I know my redeemer lives ... I wonder if they even know his name ...

Of course Mormons will not take advantage of the opportunity for more converts because Romney's run is strictly non-denominational.

All he wants is all our prayers. Nothing what-so-ever to do with "would you like to hear more?"

Yes, this issue IS over competition for souls/members. But the ones playing unfair are the Mormons! They make it seem like THEY are the ones being attacked and like the evangelicals are the intolerant, religious bigots who are bad people for persecuting the Mormons.

But it is the other way around! The Mormons have been attacking and persecuting ALL other religions from the beginning when their Founder, Joseph Smith, declared that all other religions were FALSE, and "abominations" and that their leaders are all "corrupt."

That attitude and doctrine continues to this day. It is, truly, a clever form of "religious-bigotry-judo" being used against other Christians.

Religious Judo has one point: We should take a hard look at ourselves. I've been wondering if we, as a "Mormon corridor" (Utah, SE ID, N. AZ), are not guilty of the same tactics that are claimed to be used against Romney.

Huckabee has been accused of playing up his religion to get the evangelical vote in Iowa. Arguably, when he refers to himself as the "Christian leader" in his Iowa ads, the subtext is that the other leading candidate in IA, i.e., Romney, is not.

Yet, how often do political races in Utah feature politicos touting "Utah values", or prominently featuring their (large) families in their campaign literature. Surely, we must admit that these are "code words" to the UT electorate referring to the candidate's religious affiliation.

Doctrinal points notwithstanding, when we cry foul about Huckabee courting the evangelical vote, perhaps we should also take a long, hard look in the mirror. If, as a national minority, we (LDS) are looking for acceptance in a religiously pluralistic society, then it had better start with us extending the same courtesies to those of other faiths in areas where we are the majority.

former SLC resident

RE: Religious Judo | 4:25 p.m. Dec. 8, 2007
"their Founder, Joseph Smith, declared that all other religions were FALSE, and "abominations" and that their leaders are all "corrupt."

Nope. Look it up. God and Jesus Christ said they were corrupt. Joseph was just as surprised by their statement to him.

You can only win your war of ego ("I'm right/No, I'm right") if you can drag the Lord's work down to being Joseph's imagination or power grab.

The fatal flaw in your logic is that the Prophet Joseph wasn't in it for himself.
He gave and gave and taught and raised people up and loved and healed and repented and forgave and gave his life in both senses of the word.

The Prophet Gordon and the other leaders continue to do the same today, not for money and power like the Tele-Evangelical$ and profe$$ional pa$tor$.

No motive, no crime. Just your/our Father in Heaven's message to you and me.

I hope not a single one of the candidates answers that survey. I could be wrong, but I believe this survey to the candidates is prohibited in the constitution. At least judging by the four questions mentioned in the article, to my understanding this would be subjecting each candidate to the very litmus test that they are not supposed to be judge by. If a person wants to know more about a candidates religion then there are official websites and official statements by these churches that people can get their information from. Leave the candidates alone. Their personal religious belief are theirs and are personal. What is appropriate to explain they have done. It just seems there are those out there that are intent on dividing one another and divided we won�t stand very long. Instead we need to work together to build on common ground and put differences aside to be able to find solutions for the common good. Together we can do many great things.

This may not apply to the topic, but in a round about way it might. How come during the primaries do we have to vote along the lines of one party or another, unlike the general election you can vote for whoever you want? Example, during the primaries say for one position you like a republican candidate, then for another position you like someone that is a democrat, but then somehow it is explained to you or you interpret what they are saying to mean that you can only vote for folks only from one party or another that you can�t pick someone from one group and then someone for something else from the other group. Why do we as a voting population have to register as a democrat, republican, independent, or any other party for that matter? I understand the candidates being part of one group or another, but why does the general population have to take sides? Just vote for the person you feel is best regardless of party affiliation. It seems to work o.k. in high school, why not it the primary elections.

Politics serves our temporal existence or mortality and concerns what goes on now in our lives. Religion serves our eternal existence or spirit (or whatever your religious persuasion) and concerns whatever is going to happen to us in the hereafter. Religion may guide us in the decisions we choose and the values we hold, but on politics what difference does it make if you believe in the Trinity versus a Unitarian belief, or something else altogether. In the eternal perspective of things this might matter or it might not. But how is that difference going to help in finding solutions on how to: reduce crime; keep the nation safe; provide quality education and healthcare; provide solid employment options for people to be able to provide for themselves; and insure the social security system continues to work to enable people to be able to retire and continue to receive quality healthcare? Rather than continue to find things that make us different which pulls us apart and we need to look to find those things that we hold in common which can bring us together to solve the things that affect us now.

Just a couple of words to anon. I found it interesting in the recent election for Mayor of Salt Lake City the winning candidate responded the religious affiliation question in this manner: Not LDS. This not-so-subtle statement garnered all the Mormon-Haters to him in the election.

Religion teaches its adherents to follow a moral code of law. Even Atheists have their own personal kind of religion even though they don�t claim one particular one over the other. They generally follow some kind of moral code of law. Without this moral code there would be chaos. In general, we are all learning how to treat each other civilly to allow each of us to achieve whatever potential we allow or limit ourselves to achieve.

Judo makes a point. Simply stating the LDS position cuts Evangelical Christains to the core and hurts. No long commentaries, quotes or historical dissertations. Just stand on the corner and say "180 years ago God and Jesus came down, and Jesus said all churches were wrong, and that he was going to wipe to slate clean, call new Apostles and start over again." Apparently, these words have power.

To Dave, 11:57 PM 12/8/07:

you prove my point, though in the "reverse" direction. SLC, being the non-Mormon island in the sea of Mormonism, has a voting bloc looking for all the opposite "code words" coming from their mayorial candidate. When I lived there in 1999, Stuart Reid was the Mormon target, and Rocky Anderson was the non-(practicing-)Mormon beneficiary. Rocky won handily, despite both candidates being Democrats and having similar political positions.

Watch, however, when the state legislature races start in earnest next fall, especially the contested races in Davis, south SL and Utah counties. I'm afraid, unless a large cultural shift has happened in the 7 years since I left UT, that you'll see exactly the things I referred to in my last entry. We're just as human as everyone else, and, unfortunately, Utah's voters respond to the prospect of religious homogeneity as much as IA or the Bible belt states.

Mormonism is not Christianity, despite what many Mormons profess. The differences are huge.

The Bible speaks of one eternal God. Christians worship this one God.
Mormons believe that there are many gods, that men become gods, and that the God they believe in was once a man like us.

Christians believe in God who created the universe, and created us.
Mormons believe there is a Mr. and Mrs God making spiritual babies who become people - us.

The Bible teaches salvation is a gift of grace, that we are saved by faith alone. The Bible specifically adds that salvation is "not of works, lest any man should boast".
Mormons believe men must "choose to do good and work righteousness" to be saved.

The list goes on and on. Mormons are not Christians unless one takes an extremely elastic view of the word "Christian". They might be good people, well-intended, but they are not "Christians". That is why most Mormons who examine their theology in-depth become ex-Mormons.

Dan:
If something big were coming, let's say a storm, and your neighbor comes over and warns you about it, would you say, "Gee, thanks, for the info! I can prepare"? Or would you say, "Get out of my face. I'm doing OK as I am"?

That's what the Lord has done many times, is send the good news through His prophets, of the course correction He wanted the people of that time to make. Like the prophets throughout history, even the Savior Himself, Joseph Smith faced persecution for simply delivering the message, "Update! Our Father has spoken, wants us to listen and make some changes, prepare for His coming."

Now that message is Love and Good News, UNLESS you are so deeply invested in the limited understanding you were taught, that you can't accept more goodness (or unless you are making a living preaching the traditions that have become dominant.)

The churches of 180 years ago mostly chose, as was prophesied, to ignore (and fight against) the update.

Mike:
Right, what you wish to call "Mormonism" is NOT [what has become] Dominant Christianity (DC).
DC is the loose alliance of a series of different interpretations of the Bible, with various man-made traditions built around them.
By being the majority, they consider themselves the authority, but conveniently in discussions like this one, they overlook their contradictory beliefs.

The doctrinal points you mention are generally agreed upon by DC, but not entirely, especially when you consider the various Catholic churches. (Roman Catholic disagrees with Greek Orthodox, etc.)

However - and see the comment 'for Dan' - the good news is that our Father in Heaven, your Father and mine, loves us and has sent again a real Prophet, and that's good news -- straightening out the many man-made interpretations and misunderstood doctrines.

The folks you refer to who leave the Church, didn't examine it with the Spirit of God in their hearts;
they looked until they could find some mortal flaw in some leader, or some other excuse, so they wouldn't have to continue to live the commandments: things like Law of Chastity, Law of Tithing, the Lord's Health Code, all hard to live in the world today.

I don�t understand those who claim to be Christian could deny others this claim as well. I don�t believe there is a monopoly on who can say who is or isn�t Christian. Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are Christian, just as those of others faiths who believe in Christ. Also those in the Book of Mormon who believed in Christ were called Christians by those people who did not believe in Christ. In Alma when Captain Moroni raises the title of liberty he prays to God for the protection of his people and �that they might maintain that which was called by their enemies the cause of Christians.� (Alma 46:13-16, Alma 48:10)

To the anonymous "for Dan" and "for Mike" - I was not referring to denominations - those are groups formed by people. Denominations are Baptist, Catholic, and the like. Some members of denomiations are Christians, and some are not - despite the teachings. I am referring to "Christians" in the Biblical sense. Those who believe in teachings of the Bible.

Many, many Mormon doctrines and beliefs are contrary to the Bible - and even contrary to the book of Mormon. When one researches the Bible (as I have) and researches Mormonism (as I have), one concludes (as many have) that Mormonism is a religion, but not Christian. I understand Mormons have, for the past 15 years, worked hard at convincing the world that they are "Christians" too, but their beliefs and Biblical teachings are too far apart in too many areas.

Saying that my car can fly just like an airplane does not make it true, though they are both modes of transportation. The difference is that one will get me across an ocean - the other won't. Christianity leads to eternity with God - Mormonism doesn't. This fact makes me sad for my Mormon friends.

Mormons are not Christians because of their foundational beliefs that God was once a man and Jesus is his literal offspring.
God did create Satan but the Bible says in Colossians 1:16 that Jesus created ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN and in earth. So if Jesus created ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN then that would also mean the angels and Satan/Lucifer was an angel so that would mean that Jesus created Lucifer. So how does that make Jesus and Lucifer brothers? When Henry Ford created the Model A, did he call it his brother? Of course not, he called it an automobile.
How can Jesus have a brother when He is the only begotten of the Father (John 3:16)
The LDS church needs to read out of the same English dictionary that the rest of the English speaking world does.