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Romney: No candidate should be rejected because of his faith
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Anonymous | 12:45 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
Is it O.K. if I reject him on the basis of his decisions and policies, even if I
live in Utah?
dcc | 8:35 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
Romney excluded Muslims from his Cabinet due to the percentage living in the US.
Would he exclude a Mormon? The number of Mormons is not that much greater than
the number of Muslims.
Anonymous | 11:15 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
You've got to me kidding ddc!
The number of Muslims in the world far outweigh Mormons (even taking away the baptism of dead persons that are supposed to add to the numbers.)
The number of Muslims in the world far outweigh Mormons (even taking away the baptism of dead persons that are supposed to add to the numbers.)
Comments continue below
Phoney Baloney | 11:28 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
Phonies like Huckabee and Romney complain constantly about the supposed
religious intolerance of secular liberals. But the truth is that liberals --
including agnostics and atheists -- have long been far more tolerant of
religious believers in office than the other way around. They helped elect a
Southern Baptist named Jimmy Carter to the presidency in 1976, and today they
support a Mormon named Harry Reid who is the Senate majority leader -- which
makes him the highest-ranking Mormon officeholder in American history. Nobody in
the Democratic Party has displayed the slightest prejudice about Reid's
religion.
Bruce | 3:39 p.m. Dec. 8, 2007
I agree with Romney to some extent that presidential candidates should not be
rejected because of their faith.
However, their faith is part of their rationality (or lack thereof) because their religious faith is the foundation for their moral thinking.
As such, the doctrines of Mormonism are directly relevant to Romney's candidacy. If he believes in "blood atonement," that raises some concerns about his stance on the death penalty. If he believes in the prophecies that tell of the destruction of much of the world prior to the second coming of Jesus, that raises some concerns about his willingness to use nuclear weapons (perhaps thinking he is "hastening the Lord's coming").
And finally, Romney seems to be the one forcing his religious beliefs as an issue in this election - leveraging a reverse psychology to make people feel guilty... sending the message that if you don't vote for Mitt Romney it must be because you are a religious bigot!
And the whole Mormon Church population makes the same tumult - "the anti-Mormons are keeping us out of the White House because of religious bigotry!"
We don't like your beliefs - period. Keep them out of the White House.
However, their faith is part of their rationality (or lack thereof) because their religious faith is the foundation for their moral thinking.
As such, the doctrines of Mormonism are directly relevant to Romney's candidacy. If he believes in "blood atonement," that raises some concerns about his stance on the death penalty. If he believes in the prophecies that tell of the destruction of much of the world prior to the second coming of Jesus, that raises some concerns about his willingness to use nuclear weapons (perhaps thinking he is "hastening the Lord's coming").
And finally, Romney seems to be the one forcing his religious beliefs as an issue in this election - leveraging a reverse psychology to make people feel guilty... sending the message that if you don't vote for Mitt Romney it must be because you are a religious bigot!
And the whole Mormon Church population makes the same tumult - "the anti-Mormons are keeping us out of the White House because of religious bigotry!"
We don't like your beliefs - period. Keep them out of the White House.
Mitt the Man? | 10:09 p.m. Dec. 8, 2007
It seems some LDS believe in manifest destiny when it comes to Mitt Romney. If
you think that the heavens are in control, have you considered that Mitt may not
be the chosen man?
Bookaholic | 3:00 a.m. Dec. 9, 2007
Superb speech! No notes, obviously from the heart. Mitt is a great man and will
make a outstanding president if America wakes up and elects him.
This discussion over the speech is nice because it bumped a lot of the "flip-flopping" comments to the side.
I've always been flummoxed by them. I was raised Democrat, voted straight-line Democrat. Then, I joined the Church and started thinking about the abortion issue. I realized--hey!--it isn't just that every child deserves two parents who want it. We're talking about a baby's life! I looked at what the Democrats stood for and realized we were on opposite sides of many issues.
So, I changed my mind and my party affiliation. Now I'm a flip-flopper? What? How stupid is that! It makes me a thoughtful, reflective person--not a flip-flopper.
Besides, to be a flip-flopper, don't you have to change your position and then go back? From A to B and back to A? Mitt hasn't done that. He had his personal beliefs but stood behind the legal availability of abortion because a relative had died from a back alley abortion. Creating embryos for parts was too much. He went pro-life completely--like me. Good move, Mitt.
This discussion over the speech is nice because it bumped a lot of the "flip-flopping" comments to the side.
I've always been flummoxed by them. I was raised Democrat, voted straight-line Democrat. Then, I joined the Church and started thinking about the abortion issue. I realized--hey!--it isn't just that every child deserves two parents who want it. We're talking about a baby's life! I looked at what the Democrats stood for and realized we were on opposite sides of many issues.
So, I changed my mind and my party affiliation. Now I'm a flip-flopper? What? How stupid is that! It makes me a thoughtful, reflective person--not a flip-flopper.
Besides, to be a flip-flopper, don't you have to change your position and then go back? From A to B and back to A? Mitt hasn't done that. He had his personal beliefs but stood behind the legal availability of abortion because a relative had died from a back alley abortion. Creating embryos for parts was too much. He went pro-life completely--like me. Good move, Mitt.
Anonymous | 12:46 p.m. Dec. 9, 2007
Romney AND Huckabee have as much chance of being president as Pat Robertson did.
steve | 10:55 a.m. Dec. 10, 2007
To followup on previous comments on religious group size, it looks like the
worldwide religious group populations are about:
Muslim: 1,600,000,000 (1.6 billion)
Mormon: 11,700,000 (11.7 million)
Muslim: 1,600,000,000 (1.6 billion)
Mormon: 11,700,000 (11.7 million)
Anonymous | 12:18 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007
Somebody downtown in the LDS Public Relations department foolishly let the cat
out of the bag and told the world that they baptize dead people. Then when they
announce the "growth of the LDS numbers"
they forget that watching eyes know that this is where the "growth" comes from.
Other faiths (Catholics for example) have 80 million members all of whom are alive and breathing.
they forget that watching eyes know that this is where the "growth" comes from.
Other faiths (Catholics for example) have 80 million members all of whom are alive and breathing.
Re: Anonymous 12:18 | 12:27 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007
The 13 million members the LDS church announces does not include the baptisms
for the dead.
Anonymous | 1:37 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007
Okay, "Re: Anon" impossible to prove your dead-guy baptism claim. But
I am glad you are honest enough to admit LDS people are still doing this rather
bizarre custom.
Now how about the people who have quit? (I know tons of them in Salt Lake alone.)
They're called "in-active" aren't they? Therefore remaining on the list of members.
Now how about the people who have quit? (I know tons of them in Salt Lake alone.)
They're called "in-active" aren't they? Therefore remaining on the list of members.
Re: Anonymous | 2:32 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007
Yes, that is correct there are many, many members of the church who are
"in-active" or have stopped participating in Church. The thing is
this. What would you do if a son or daughter, cut themselves off from your
family and stopped coming around. would you turn to them and say, OK you are no
longer my son/daughter? I doubt it. These so call "in-active"
members are family. They are our family. Unfortunately they have chosen other
paths and do things that are against standards of the church. Does that make
hem bad people? absolutely not. We still love them just the same and pray for
them to return.
Anonymous | 2:45 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007
I am afraid "Re: Anon" that you have that story turned around. The
thing (as you put it) is this: I personally know of people who have exercised
their free agency, left the LDS church only to have immediate family members
turn a cold shoulder and refer to them as apostates. I was raised with the
ideology that any organization that puts itself before the individual, that
organization is a monstrous one. What I love about these wonderful God-filled
people is that they refuse to jump through the hoops and trek downtown to be
third-degreed one last time before they are removed from the list of mormons.
True heroes and heroines in my book.
Re: Anon | 2:59 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007
I'm not saying that doesn't happen among members of the church. In
fact I too know of several families that have done that very thing. People
aren't perfect. The idea the gospel teaches is to leave the masses to find
the one lost. We teach to love everyone. Jesus Christ showed an out pouring of
love and forgiveness for the "sinner." Our church teaches the same
principal. It is very unfortunate that too many people forget that sometimes.
Anonymous | 3:30 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007
I think for some people or cultures, the group thing is important to them. But
there are those who function better without the trappings of a social
indoctrination system.
A monastic, personal, and private style is an ancient tradition and is well-known to have its benefits. Speaking purely for myself, I feel more of a higher sense of spirituality alone than in any group. It must be just another one of my character flaws. But my favorite story is where Jesus went into the desert alone to fast and pray. And this notion fits me like a glove.
A monastic, personal, and private style is an ancient tradition and is well-known to have its benefits. Speaking purely for myself, I feel more of a higher sense of spirituality alone than in any group. It must be just another one of my character flaws. But my favorite story is where Jesus went into the desert alone to fast and pray. And this notion fits me like a glove.
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