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Elder Ballard responds to evangelical criticism
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Broc | 11:16 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
I'm a non-mormon living in Utah. I consider myself spiritual, but not
necessarily religious. I've attended many different denominations and
found things that I agree with and disagree with in all of them. Tolerance is
taught by all, but not observed by many. Religious persecution is currently a
bigger problem than racial persecution.
I will say this about my Mormon neighbors...I don't see how anything bad can come from living according to their beliefs!!! Even if their church isn't true, what have they lost???? Unless living a healthy, spiritual, compassionate life has become a bad thing in this day and age.
I will say this about my Mormon neighbors...I don't see how anything bad can come from living according to their beliefs!!! Even if their church isn't true, what have they lost???? Unless living a healthy, spiritual, compassionate life has become a bad thing in this day and age.
Greg | 11:41 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
The LDS Church should not be criticized so much for the "one true
church" concept, because that same or a similar concept is taught by more
than the LDS Church. The Athanasian Creed starts, "Whosoever will be
saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith."
Many Protestants say that the LDS will be damned because they do not believe
what the Protestants believe about the nature of God, etc. It seems to me that
they are all saying pretty much the same thing, claiming to have the "one
true" church or religion.
A related question for our Protestant friends--why is it that Protestants feel they can interpret the Bible as they want but then deny the LDS the same opportunity, by claiming that the LDS interpretation is not "Christian?" Wasn't the whole Protestant movement about approaching God directly and individually through biblical teaching and not through papal authority or interpretation? It seems to me that by denying the LDS the right to its interpretation of the Bible, Protestants are denying the very principles that brought about their own movement. I've always wondered about that. Comments?
A related question for our Protestant friends--why is it that Protestants feel they can interpret the Bible as they want but then deny the LDS the same opportunity, by claiming that the LDS interpretation is not "Christian?" Wasn't the whole Protestant movement about approaching God directly and individually through biblical teaching and not through papal authority or interpretation? It seems to me that by denying the LDS the right to its interpretation of the Bible, Protestants are denying the very principles that brought about their own movement. I've always wondered about that. Comments?
Comments continue below
Greg again | 11:56 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
One of the unfortunate consequences of the arguments about differences between
the beliefs of LDS and "traditional" Christians is that it takes our
focus away from our common moral foundation. One of the main battles of our
time is between the traditional morals that we share and the ongoing, relentless
secularization of America. As believers, we should not be infighting so much
when there is so much at stake in the fight against secularism becoming the
official religion of America. The secularization of American, I believe, has a
greater potential than our doctrinal differences to destroy this nation and
undermine the very religious liberty we cherish. As believers, we indeed
"are all enlisted 'til [that] conflict is o'er." Let's
not forget that.
To "One Question" | 11:56 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
"One Question"....the reason that many LDS members get irritated with
ANY group or person labeling us as "not Christian" is because we ARE.
Yes, there are many un-truths, misperceptions and sometimes, flat out lies in
our society about the Mormon faith. I can easily stomach them all with a laugh.
All but one; that of being told we're not "Christian". That, I
will not tolerate. I won't verbally destroy or harm anyone over this error
but I WILL stand up EVERY time to correct the misperception that I am not
Christian because to not do so is to fail to stand up for Christ. I am not a
perfect person by any stretch of the imagination but I am justifiably proud of
my Savior, of your Savior, of OUR Savior and will always defend Him, His
teachings and His people, and no, I don't mean just the LDS members. If a
Muslim extremist or an athiest, etc was attacking my non-LDS friends for their
faith in Christ, I'd stand up for their faith in God too. Have a great
Christmas. Dan Maloy, Enid, OK
TownHeathan | 11:57 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
To the editor of this site.
You continue to delete my comments. They are neither abusive, offensive or off-topic.
Are you soooo afraid of the truth that you must remove me so that i cannot be seen?
Shame on you...
You continue to delete my comments. They are neither abusive, offensive or off-topic.
Are you soooo afraid of the truth that you must remove me so that i cannot be seen?
Shame on you...
DG | 12:02 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
The Scriptures have not changed in content since they were written as evidenced
by the Dead Sea Scrolls. Only a few grammar issues have been found.The
corruption does not come from a change in the Scriptures but from the people who
do not read it and follow it.
Therefore when Joseph Smith said he was "restoring" the Gospel, he did not follow the original Scriptures which had never changed but wrote his own. If Joseph Smith actually believed in Jesus and that He is indeed the Truth as He states which has been in the Scriptures since about 90 AD, why not use what He said? And why add to it? What Christ said was sufficient then and should be sufficient now. Adding to it increases the burden that the Pharisees were guilty of then. Also, modern archaeology supports all of the civilizations and events found in the OT. Josephus and non-Jewish historians support NT. So the Bible is sufficient and tells all that is necessary -- Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved -- nothing more, nothing less.
Therefore when Joseph Smith said he was "restoring" the Gospel, he did not follow the original Scriptures which had never changed but wrote his own. If Joseph Smith actually believed in Jesus and that He is indeed the Truth as He states which has been in the Scriptures since about 90 AD, why not use what He said? And why add to it? What Christ said was sufficient then and should be sufficient now. Adding to it increases the burden that the Pharisees were guilty of then. Also, modern archaeology supports all of the civilizations and events found in the OT. Josephus and non-Jewish historians support NT. So the Bible is sufficient and tells all that is necessary -- Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved -- nothing more, nothing less.
Bocas Brain | 12:28 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Kudos to TownHeatahan for your comments.
People should be left alone to determine who they would like to worship or which way to do that, so do not accost them on the streets and try to convince them of yours. They all have one that they are entitled to worship. If they want to choose yours let them make the call.
People should be left alone to determine who they would like to worship or which way to do that, so do not accost them on the streets and try to convince them of yours. They all have one that they are entitled to worship. If they want to choose yours let them make the call.
ed | 12:42 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
To DG: you are right on the money!
one true church? | 12:46 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Why did Elder Ballard shy away from the "one true church" question?
The Doctrine and Covenants is pretty clear on this. The evasion sounds like
something Mitt Romney would do.
Joseph | 12:51 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Confused, Mike, Eugene, Sick & Tired and Broc.... As a mormon no longer
living in Utah, I feel boldly to criticize the LDS Chruch for thier own
intolerance for religious expression, and yes, personal revelation. GRUNDLE
quoted the 11th Article of Faith: We claim the priviledge of worshipping the
Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience...and let others do
the same. YET, my mormon "friends" and church leaders continuously
tell me what I am suppose to believe, and then use Probation, Disfellowship, and
Excommunication to inforce this intolerance.
Autodidact | 1:02 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
DG,
I'm a bit confused about your choice to use the Dead Sea Scrolls as evidence of your point.
A simple internet search can clear up your misunderstanding.
The Dead Sea Scrolls contain parts of what we would call the Old Testament (nothing that supports the New Testament). They also contain other writings from Old Testament times that the writers believed were part of scripture, but which are not generally thought to be so today. Scholars have found they parallel other Second Temple Period writings, which can hardly be called "original" as they differ from teachings from the first temple period.
There may be ancient texts which give credibility to your point, but the Dead Sea Scrolls aren't they.
I'm a bit confused about your choice to use the Dead Sea Scrolls as evidence of your point.
A simple internet search can clear up your misunderstanding.
The Dead Sea Scrolls contain parts of what we would call the Old Testament (nothing that supports the New Testament). They also contain other writings from Old Testament times that the writers believed were part of scripture, but which are not generally thought to be so today. Scholars have found they parallel other Second Temple Period writings, which can hardly be called "original" as they differ from teachings from the first temple period.
There may be ancient texts which give credibility to your point, but the Dead Sea Scrolls aren't they.
Dr. Lao | 1:18 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Mitt will make a really fine VP, with Ron Paul as president.
Thomas | 1:36 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
I hesitate to question Elder Ballard's statements without having read his
actual words, but if he's being quoted correctly, he's
mischaracterizing classical Christian teaching on the Trinity at least as badly
as many evangelicals mischaracterize Mormon doctrine.
Trinitarians (at least, the ones who know what they're talking about, which excludes about 90% of lay Protestants) don't believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are "one body." They believe they are "one God." Mormons do, too. (See D&C 21.)
When Trinitarians talk of the persons of the Godhead constituting "one essence," they mean that they collectively constitute a single entity -- the one God. There are different opinions as to how, exactly, this works -- but nobody questions that the term "one" is being used in something other than the strictly mathematical sense. Rather, it's something symbolic, or metaphysical. The Utah Jazz consists of distinct individuals, but it also constitute a single essence -- the Jazz. Likewise, the members of the Godhead are distinct individuals -- but they also constitute a single essence -- God.
Trinitarians (at least, the ones who know what they're talking about, which excludes about 90% of lay Protestants) don't believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are "one body." They believe they are "one God." Mormons do, too. (See D&C 21.)
When Trinitarians talk of the persons of the Godhead constituting "one essence," they mean that they collectively constitute a single entity -- the one God. There are different opinions as to how, exactly, this works -- but nobody questions that the term "one" is being used in something other than the strictly mathematical sense. Rather, it's something symbolic, or metaphysical. The Utah Jazz consists of distinct individuals, but it also constitute a single essence -- the Jazz. Likewise, the members of the Godhead are distinct individuals -- but they also constitute a single essence -- God.
Solomon Urriola | 1:37 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
When referring to an Apostle of The Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints,
it's important to point out that these leader have titles. So, Elder
Ballard is Elder Ballard, and not "Ballard".
The President of this nation is President Bush, not Bush or Mr. Bush.
The "Pope" is the Pope and Mr. Pope.
To the ignorant, please have some respect for peoples position, authority and to their titles.
Have a nice day.
The President of this nation is President Bush, not Bush or Mr. Bush.
The "Pope" is the Pope and Mr. Pope.
To the ignorant, please have some respect for peoples position, authority and to their titles.
Have a nice day.
I don't get it.... | 1:38 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Why are you so offended by what evangelical christians say about your beliefs?
Your beliefs clearly state that all religions other than yours are an
abomination. Are evangelical christians (or any other religion for that matter)
not supposed to be offended by that?
Clifton | 1:46 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Just of of Google where I looked up the APOTLES'S CREED. After reading it
and how it is used and purpose thereof, I'm puzzled why should called that
at all. At first glance, the very title would seem to indicate that it was
written by the Apostles thenselves, or at least was a handbook used by them.
Anyone posting on this forum, not familiar with this document ought to go to your favorite search engine and look it up. You may be surprised! To me, its just one more indication that the Restoration was indeed necessary!
Anyone posting on this forum, not familiar with this document ought to go to your favorite search engine and look it up. You may be surprised! To me, its just one more indication that the Restoration was indeed necessary!
Clifton | 1:48 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Please excuse the typo. The first sentence of my comment should read "I
just got off
SkyBlue | 2:15 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Love the elevated discussion! When was religion ever a topic in politics or of
public discussions? Romney opens the door and again offers the freedom to
publicly discuss the most intimate feelings of our hearts. It is once again
politically correct to talk of god and Jesus Christ publicly.
'Secularists' were successful in making Christians cower under cover
while they ruled over politics and the public sphere in their quest to vanquish
god and religion from American life.
Romney gave one of the most powerful speeches in American politics/history. Already we can see its impact and power--because we are here talking openly and publicly of god and religion. I wish Romney all the best. America needs a man of fortitude, conviction and courage to lead it. May Romney be that man!!
Romney gave one of the most powerful speeches in American politics/history. Already we can see its impact and power--because we are here talking openly and publicly of god and religion. I wish Romney all the best. America needs a man of fortitude, conviction and courage to lead it. May Romney be that man!!
re:Town Heathen | 2:16 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
I too wish that the DMN moderator would restrict their censoring to what they
say in their disclaimer.
It seems that it happens way too often in the evening too. What is wrong with posting what people say and letting others decide if they llok bad or not?
It seems that it happens way too often in the evening too. What is wrong with posting what people say and letting others decide if they llok bad or not?
Re: Clifton | 2:24 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
...Lucky...
Clifton | 2:28 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Joseph: You sure you belong to the LDS Faith? I for one have never had dictated
to me what I was supposed to believe. Sure. there parameters which should be
followed and I suppose anyone teaching or sitting in a gospel class making wild
allegations contrary to Church doctrine or disruptive could be counseled about
it and maybe even called before a discilinary council By the same tokin yelling
fire in a crowed theater would certainly incur a greater civil penalty.
Can't stand the heat in the kitchen? see a Church leader to find out how
you can get out!
To the person who Claims Joseph Smith added to the Bible, think again, and if you want the truth, find out why certain Passages in the Bible were translated!
To the person who Claims Joseph Smith added to the Bible, think again, and if you want the truth, find out why certain Passages in the Bible were translated!
ben | 2:29 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
"I don't get it"
Where does it say in mormon doctrine that all other religions are abominations?
Show us where it says that...
Are you Dr. Lao who quoted a blanket scripture and interpreted it himself? Only to coward out later on ?
You people are so hilarious how offended you are. It's only a sign of your own weakness of faith in your own religon
Where does it say in mormon doctrine that all other religions are abominations?
Show us where it says that...
Are you Dr. Lao who quoted a blanket scripture and interpreted it himself? Only to coward out later on ?
You people are so hilarious how offended you are. It's only a sign of your own weakness of faith in your own religon
Brian A. | 2:32 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
I have never understood the need for some to wage personal holy wars with
members of other faiths. If you believe in something that brings you peace and
hapiness, why can't others enjoy that as well? When you get right down to
it we are all not so very different and maybe, just maybe, we could all just get
along. If we were all in a foxhole together would it make a difference how we
each prayed? I am sure that I will receive some negative comments for my words
but I don't mind. I respect your position anyway. Happy Holidays!
Clifton | 2:36 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
To I don't get it: Think about the time period when Joseph Smith received
his vision, and compare that to the hundreds of years encompassing Christianity
and its many and varied Christian beluefs and the apostasy that created them.
What Really Matters | 2:52 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
I am a member the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and I consider
myself a Christian, a portion of it due to my membership in His church but
primarily by the way that I attempt to live my life. If someone wishes to say
that I am not a true Christian because of my beliefs in a certian theology then
so be it. Being a Christian is a very personal thing for anyone of any religion.
Some of my closest friends are not members of my faith but share and live values
similar if not exactly like mine. Christ himself was told that he was not the
Christ in the society of which he was a part, but still proclaimed truth and
above and beyond that, he lived it and taught by example. Was it not He that
said, "By their fruits ye shall know them". Further more...continued
Mimi | 3:09 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
I follow Christ's teachings to the best of my ability. He is my Lord and
Savior. He suffered to atone for my sins and sacrificed his life so that I will
be resurrected. I love him. I am a Christian.
For a Christian of another denomination to respond to that by saying, "No, you're not," defies all logic and understanding. Seems like an incredibly un-Christian attitude.
For a Christian of another denomination to respond to that by saying, "No, you're not," defies all logic and understanding. Seems like an incredibly un-Christian attitude.
Rich | 3:57 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
One of the comments here said, whoever believes in Christ receives forgiveness
of sins. I don't think a profession of belief is enough. Jesus said if
you love him you will obey his commandments. And I don't think you believe
him if you won't live his commandments. He also said to be perfect even as
he is perfect. Naturally, we all fail at times, and for that God and Christ
have set up a way for us to receive forgiveness. A study of the Bible will show
there's more to forgiveness than just professing a belief in Christ.
come on | 4:03 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Dr. Lao, please tell me you're a dentist or a podiatrist or something and
not a Professor of Religion at the U.
Mike R. | 4:04 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
You can prove anything you want from the Bible. Including the Sept. 11 attacks.
(See Isaiah 30: 25)
The bottom line is that "Mainstream" Christian Curches are rooted in, and or, descended from the Catholic Church. So if, as the Protestants believe, that the Catholic's are wrong, then they are all wrong along with them because the are Apostates. If not, then the Prostestants have no leg to stand on because the Catholic Church would be Christ's Church. Either way the Prostestants are going to heck.
All the Mormons teach is that we are the restoration of the Biblical Church the Jesus founded. What is so wrong about having a Prophet to watch over us and teach us? If you don't want to believe it, then fine. I don't lose any sleep over it and neither should you. But if you are not Mormon, you should be Catholic.
I blame it all on Church Basketball.
The bottom line is that "Mainstream" Christian Curches are rooted in, and or, descended from the Catholic Church. So if, as the Protestants believe, that the Catholic's are wrong, then they are all wrong along with them because the are Apostates. If not, then the Prostestants have no leg to stand on because the Catholic Church would be Christ's Church. Either way the Prostestants are going to heck.
All the Mormons teach is that we are the restoration of the Biblical Church the Jesus founded. What is so wrong about having a Prophet to watch over us and teach us? If you don't want to believe it, then fine. I don't lose any sleep over it and neither should you. But if you are not Mormon, you should be Catholic.
I blame it all on Church Basketball.
DG reply | 4:13 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
To answer your questions, LDS believe all that Christ has revealed and will
accept all that he has yet to reveal. Some people think God and Christ have
said all they are going to say. On the other hand, some say that there was
never a time in the history of the world when it was more important and
necessary for God to talk to man. Mormons say God reveals or inspires each
person on earth to help them in their responsibilities as individuals, parents,
etc. But they also say only one man has been ordained to receive inspiration or
revelation for the whole earth. They say it is wrong to say that God does not
have the power to reveal more information than has already been revealed.
Otherwise, we would all disagree over every little thing that comes up -- is it
right or wrong to pull the plug on a terminally ill patient, is it right or
wrong to have an abortion, watch pornography, take marijuana, smoke tobacco,
play the slots at Vegas? You won't find clear-cut answers in the Bible,
but Christ can reveal the answers to the person he has put in charge.
to Dr. Lao | 4:14 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
where are you? have you gone silent? if you really are the one that posted Mitt
will make a good VP with Ron Paul? you must be kidding. try responding to those
that addressed your comments.
Reader in Denver | 4:41 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
An interesting anectdote: Years ago, when I 10, I lived with my family in small
town ID. I am LDS (lifelong member). We visited Temple Square. It was the
first time I had seen the Christus statue (replica). I was truly amazed. I
really enjoyed that visit. I don't recall the details much 36 years later,
but I do remember signing the register. One column was for religious
affiliation. I didn't know what to put down. I saw other entries, but they
didn't seem to make a lot of sense to me (LDS, Catholic, etc.). I saw one
entry that was "Christian." I thought for a moment and said to myself
that I believe in Jesus Christ, so I guess I am a Christian.
A couple of weeks later, two Elders came to the house. My dad was the stake mission president. They wondered why they would have a referral to our house. They came and talked with me (with my parents in attendance). I told them that I didn't know what my religion was called, but that I believe in Jesus Christ, so I put Christian on the registry.
So, all you holier-than-thou so-called Christians, am I wrong?
A couple of weeks later, two Elders came to the house. My dad was the stake mission president. They wondered why they would have a referral to our house. They came and talked with me (with my parents in attendance). I told them that I didn't know what my religion was called, but that I believe in Jesus Christ, so I put Christian on the registry.
So, all you holier-than-thou so-called Christians, am I wrong?
definitions from Washington | 6:38 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
That depends on how you define Christian. If you believe in Christ, you are
Christian. But who is Christ? Therein lies the controversy. Is He the same as
Heavenly Father, the same as the Spirit? What about other Christian traditions?
Which ones must be practiced in order to consider yourself a Christian? Are
there certain truths all Christians take as universal? If so, which ones are
they?
Mike | 7:27 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Question 1 - Why does the Church continue to announce it's numbers - now
proudly proclaiming 13 million - when it would be very generous to say even half
of that number continues to have anything to do with the Church?
Question 2 - Why do LDS members point to the admittedly confusing doctrines of other religions (Nisene Creed) when so much of LDS doctrine and history boggles even the mind of practicing members? (i.e., polygamy, dark skin doctrines, Book of Abraham scrolls, temple changes, multiple visions, JS treasure hunting before supposed visions, Adam-God, DNA problems, literally no BofM archeology, etc. etc) Or is it just enough to simply say "I'm not sure that we teach that?"
Question 2 - Why do LDS members point to the admittedly confusing doctrines of other religions (Nisene Creed) when so much of LDS doctrine and history boggles even the mind of practicing members? (i.e., polygamy, dark skin doctrines, Book of Abraham scrolls, temple changes, multiple visions, JS treasure hunting before supposed visions, Adam-God, DNA problems, literally no BofM archeology, etc. etc) Or is it just enough to simply say "I'm not sure that we teach that?"
Re: Mike | 11:24 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Answer 1: Jennifer Dobner of the associated press proclaimed 13 million in this
article, not "the Church." And you added the adjective
"proudly."
I'm not sure if I understand what you're getting at in your question 2. Attacking our church based on science and history is faulty. Science constantly changes (if DNA problems were suddenly explained by new findings, would you change your mind about our church? Somehow I think not) and history is different depending on who tells it. If I were you, I'd just worry about the current DOCTRINES of the church. Elder Ballard pointing to the doctrines produced from the Nisene Creed makes sense because that highlights the differences in our doctrines.
I'm not sure if I understand what you're getting at in your question 2. Attacking our church based on science and history is faulty. Science constantly changes (if DNA problems were suddenly explained by new findings, would you change your mind about our church? Somehow I think not) and history is different depending on who tells it. If I were you, I'd just worry about the current DOCTRINES of the church. Elder Ballard pointing to the doctrines produced from the Nisene Creed makes sense because that highlights the differences in our doctrines.
Dale Newton | 11:35 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Interesting comments and most of them are honest and cogent. It seems to me
that the so-called "evangelical Christians" [I'm not sure of the
definition of that term] need to do a little more soul-searching of their
disparate ideas. It seems only logical to me that our Heavenly Father and His
Son, Jesus Christ, would have but ONE teaching and ONE position on this matter -
not dozens as is found in the Christian world. And, it shouldn't be
confusing and incomprehensible. The reality of a loving, real, live Heavently
Father is amazing enough as it is without complicating the matter to the point
of confusion. The concept of the Godhead - as taught in Christ's own
church - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - is simple,
consistent and believable. One need not look any further if one is truly
searching for the truth.
Closing the Gap | 1:02 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
As we LDS continue to "close the gap" between the church and the
Protestant churches, will we eventually be able to wear crosses and drink
moderately? Just curious how far we are willing to go for acceptance of the
world.
Tim | 4:31 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
Dr. Lao: I am not sure what happened to my comment as I do not find it here.
But in response to your correcting me on the location of Nicaea being in Turkey
I would like to know the source of that information so I can be educated.
However, please respond to the many comments that were made to you. I respect
your opinion, but do not understand its relevance. I also feel that Mitt
Romney's use of the word "symphony" is good advice for us all.
Our "christian actions" whether we be Jew, Muslim, Protestant,
Catholic, Atheist, Agnostic, Mormon, Buddhist or any of the religions of the
world I have left out are what should really matter. I have read many comments
referencing this point. This is not the time to battle theological differences.
Let each of us objectively look at the track record of these candidates and ask
ourselves if they can be trusted to lead this great country for the next four
years. My man is Mitt but isn't it fantastic that we all live in a country
where we have the freedom to agree to disagree. Just examine all the facts
first.
Tim | 5:02 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
I ran out of room the last time. My main objective in my earlier comment was to
respond to Dr. Lao's comment to me about Nicaea and the importance of
putting aside differences to pick the best candidate to lead our country.
However, I do embrace the LDS faith and like the many others who have defended
that faith am very concerned by the label placed on us as non-Christians. Let
the many evidences of what we do speak for themselves just like the track record
of Mitt Romney. I feel based on his track record he is the best candidate. And
for all the detractors our there look at out track record as a church. There
are 13 million of us in the world and like myself our decision to embrace our
religion was based on a simple act of heartfelt prayer. We are not perfect, but
strive each day to be better just like you. Thank you for listening.
wow | 6:06 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
to the one questioning mr. ballard about the slap in the face, i am of the
wyandot tribe who came to the assistance of many a gen aut. back when..but
getting bac to the slap..if all things are connected such as the iroquois to the
constitution, lamanite to bom,the navajo to saving a war..then why can't a
name be attached to building ackowledging such when it was the god given
document unlike any other which set the precedent of the relationship to a
people, a people who played an important part in attaining what been
attained.especially when the song is sung "do what is rigth..so i quess we
will just keep slaping each but are things are connected in the spiderweb of
life! and i have a silver star that gives credence to such a connection also the
monies that provides the funds such as a census #,kinda of like the requirements
connected back the to the jew in paying the reqired pennance..all things are
connected. how smooth are the words that make a wrong seem rigth.
I'm Saved! | 6:28 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
So I googled "evangelical christian" and found
"Evangelicalism" on wikipedia. Turns out Evangelicalism is only 150
years old - so we have them beat by 30+ years historically. Here's what
they believe:
1) Biblical inerrancy - that the Bible is inerrant on issues of faith and practice but not history or science. OK, so we're pretty close on this one, but heh, I believe in the bible.
2) Salvation comes only through faith in Jesus and not good works - So I believe in Jesus Christ and believe that salvation comes through him. I just think that we out to have good works too! After all, He did good works, and it didn't hurt him.
3) Individuals (above an age of accountability) must personally trust in Jesus Christ for salvation - Yeah, so I think we already covered that, but yes I do!
4) All Christians are commissioned to evangelize and should be publicly baptized as a symbolic confession of faith. My LDS baptism was public, and I served a mission, so check, check.
There you have it, I'm saved! I'm a Christian! Let's move on!
1) Biblical inerrancy - that the Bible is inerrant on issues of faith and practice but not history or science. OK, so we're pretty close on this one, but heh, I believe in the bible.
2) Salvation comes only through faith in Jesus and not good works - So I believe in Jesus Christ and believe that salvation comes through him. I just think that we out to have good works too! After all, He did good works, and it didn't hurt him.
3) Individuals (above an age of accountability) must personally trust in Jesus Christ for salvation - Yeah, so I think we already covered that, but yes I do!
4) All Christians are commissioned to evangelize and should be publicly baptized as a symbolic confession of faith. My LDS baptism was public, and I served a mission, so check, check.
There you have it, I'm saved! I'm a Christian! Let's move on!
Yippie Skippie | 7:05 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
The End
wallyworld | 7:44 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
Re;Mike
Wow Mikiey, If DNA evidence is need to base all of our faith on then we'll be like the Apostle(doubting) Thomas who said something like , Only if I can see/feel the wounds in His hands only then will I believe. It sounds like you need something like that to believe in GOD and JESUS. If you have seen Them then I guess your place in Heaven is secure. As for me I'll just believe without seeing and take my chances. "If" I'm wrong about the LDS Church then at least I'll be in "Hell" with all of my LDS friends.
Out of my 40+ years in the LDS Church I have NEVER heard anyone teach the Adam/God Theory thingy, from the pulpit, in Sunday School or Preisthood not even from the hometeachers. From what I gather Brigham Youngs statement is not in the Bible, D&C or the BOM and therefore NOT OFFICAL DOCTRINE. If you attend the LDS church then you will be surprised to find that out.
I guess you also have inside information about the members of the Church when you say half of the 13 million to have "anything" to do with the Church.
Wow Mikiey, If DNA evidence is need to base all of our faith on then we'll be like the Apostle(doubting) Thomas who said something like , Only if I can see/feel the wounds in His hands only then will I believe. It sounds like you need something like that to believe in GOD and JESUS. If you have seen Them then I guess your place in Heaven is secure. As for me I'll just believe without seeing and take my chances. "If" I'm wrong about the LDS Church then at least I'll be in "Hell" with all of my LDS friends.
Out of my 40+ years in the LDS Church I have NEVER heard anyone teach the Adam/God Theory thingy, from the pulpit, in Sunday School or Preisthood not even from the hometeachers. From what I gather Brigham Youngs statement is not in the Bible, D&C or the BOM and therefore NOT OFFICAL DOCTRINE. If you attend the LDS church then you will be surprised to find that out.
I guess you also have inside information about the members of the Church when you say half of the 13 million to have "anything" to do with the Church.
Tom | 8:05 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
As an ex-Utahn living in Indiana, I say love each other. In Utah the Mormons
associate with the ward members in their neighborhood, which sometimes causes
the non-Mormons to be ignored, although this may not be intended. In Indiana as
a Mormon, the vast majority of the people I know are non-Mormons. They accept
me fine, and I accept them. My life is enriched by our differences. Let us
forget the differences we have and love each other.
Re: Closing the Gap | 8:14 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
I believe there has been a great deal of that under our current Prophet possibly
because he comes from a Public Relations background. He has been wonderful at
speaking the language of Christians in the numerous media appearances he has
participated in. But I think new leadership - when that time comes - may bring a
more traditional "we are who we are" message. After this experience
with Romney, the Church may recognize that all the PR in the world will not
change many perceptions so we might as well stop trying to be everything for
everyone and just be the unique religion that at our core we really are.
Craig | 8:49 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
Remember when Jesus said this to the wife of Zebedee after she asked if her sons
could sit at the right and left hands of the Savior...."but to sit on my
right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them
for whom it is prepared of my Father." (Matt. 20:23)
Christ is subject to the Father in all things.
It seems to me that God the father and Jesus Christ are two seperate beigns. Like us, Jesus had to bring his will into conformity with the will of God..."not my will, but thine be done."
Anyway, vote for who ever you want.
Christ is subject to the Father in all things.
It seems to me that God the father and Jesus Christ are two seperate beigns. Like us, Jesus had to bring his will into conformity with the will of God..."not my will, but thine be done."
Anyway, vote for who ever you want.
Member | 9:19 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
I am a recent member of the chruch. For 50 years I seached for a chruch that I
could belive in. That chruch found me almost five years ago. I was told by God
to join the LDS church. That was thru prayer and the holy ghost. What others may
think or say of my faith does not matter. I love God and am so very grateful to
him for giving his only begotten son, who suffered and gave his life for me. May
we all remember the true meaning of this holiday season. Its not one of
recieving but of giving. A smile, a kind word, an act of service, a helping
hand. Whatever it may be its what the season it really about. We take this time
of year to remember the Birth of our Lord and Savior. I am a Christian and
grateful to me a member of the LDS church. All of those who belittle my faith
and still call themselves Christian need to reread the Bible. God Bless and may
you all have a wonderful Christmas.
Just labels! | 9:23 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
I am LDS and I believe in Jesus Christ!! I could care less what label others
put on me or my faith. I know the truth, the goodness, service, sacrifice and
love of God and savior that is required to be a true follower of Christ. The
only other thing that matters is what I do with my faith.
In a time of immoral politicians (ex. Bill Clinton, whats his face from Idaho), liberal media and secular superiority I am greatful for any politcian who will stand for values driven by love, acceptance, faith, family, etc. Does Romney live his religion? I do not know the man so I cannot say. However, I am more comfortable voting for someone who says, these are my beliefs and I will not back down even if it costs me the election, rather than any faith-of-convience or faithless candidate. If they lack religious convictions and cannot stand firm in their personal beliefs why should they lead a country founded on principles of religious freedom?? If you can find out what Mrs. Clinton believes in other than 'becoming President' please let me know.
In a time of immoral politicians (ex. Bill Clinton, whats his face from Idaho), liberal media and secular superiority I am greatful for any politcian who will stand for values driven by love, acceptance, faith, family, etc. Does Romney live his religion? I do not know the man so I cannot say. However, I am more comfortable voting for someone who says, these are my beliefs and I will not back down even if it costs me the election, rather than any faith-of-convience or faithless candidate. If they lack religious convictions and cannot stand firm in their personal beliefs why should they lead a country founded on principles of religious freedom?? If you can find out what Mrs. Clinton believes in other than 'becoming President' please let me know.
Tim | 9:25 a.m. Dec. 8, 2007
Thank you "What really matters" and Dale Newton. You could not have
expressed my sentiments better.
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Anyone having further questions about the specifics of "Mormonism" after having listened to Gov. Romney's speech, should be referred to the missionaries of the church in their area, whose full-time job it is to answer detailed questions about the faith, or to simply be given a copy of the 13 Articles of Faith. It should not be up to Gov. Romney, or any other candidate, for that matter, to have to answer specific questions regarding his or her religion.