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Chris Hicks: Redford shows little class with LDS comment

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Jayce Cox | 12:09 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

I am so glad that I am not the only one seeing the upsurge of Anti-LDS bigotry. That is simply all it is; Bigotry.

Peculiar Plastic People | 12:42 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Candor never seems polite when it is about you, but I thought Robert Redfordï¿½s comments were okay in their tone. He did seem out of touch on some of it.

Hicks was right to correct Redford that not every mormon male goes on a mission.

But Redford seems right about the plastic comment. There is fakeness in probably any large social structure. A lot of mormons in each Utah neighborhood I have lived in seem plastic in their delivery of niceties. But I donï¿½t think itï¿½s a bad thing...it is difficult to be sincerely nice all the time to everyone. It is better to be superficially nice, than to avoid others.

True that young mormon men often lack practice in considering the contrary points of view. I used to be one of those young mormon men. Now, I still see the good in the mormon church still, but I also see the plastic testimony deliveries. Not all mormons deliver their message plasticly, but many do. Still, I like the mormons. And I like Robert Redford...he isnï¿½t fully in touch with what he said, but he did have a point at the end.

Not Important | 12:57 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

I am a practicing Mormon man, who went on a mission. I wasn't offended at all by his comments. So he thinks that we are fake, so what? Some of us are. If he wants to have misconceptions about something he doesn't know much about that is fine by me. Lumping him in the category of Richards and Gibson would be a mistake.

I do think he is rather lazy when it comes to logical reasoning, but that is his prerogative. We all make exaggerations and generalizations that aren't warranted. He should keep in mind his influence and hold his reasoning to a higher standard, but his comments don't mean much. It also doesn't show little class. I think to say he has little class is doing the same thing you are crying out against, it is making a character judgement on a little information.

Comments continue below

Jane | 1:03 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

For someone who is as "open" as Robert Redford, his comments are narrow-minded and embarrassing. How long does someone have to live in Utah to know that not all young Mormon men go on missions? Hello! And to categorize all Mormon men as "plastic" shows his ignorance and uneducated tolerance. Maybe he should move to Hollywood where all the cool, "real" people live.

C. G. Rice | 1:11 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

It appears that Robert Redford managed some free advertising for his new movie (Rated R) with his anti-Mormon comments. I like Robert Redford as an actor. I cannot agree with his political opinions. And it is unfortunate he does not take pride in producing a great movie with a rating other than "R". What a waste of talent.

not sure... | 1:32 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

The problem is no one likes stereotypes - unless they're positive. We don't ALL do anything, no matter what the group, although let's face the facts, if you don't go on a mission in the LDS church, it is hard to fit perfectly in the culture ever afterwards.

I'm not sure what "plastic" means. On a scale of 10, this is rather mild. I think the scrutiny is good even though the lack of info is amazing. We deserve much of what we get because so many in Utah equate 'righteousness' with membership in the conservative wing of the GOP.

Take a self-test: how many of us are more concerned with church service stats rather than building real relationships with those we serve? Do we merely know all the scriptures and conference talks on "love" or are we able to really love those who don't love us and forgive freely and unconditionally?? Are we plastic (artificial) or real followers of Christ?

Now I will sit back and see how many respond to Redford's comments and other posters in anger and contention vs. those who think we can improve...

Too Sensitive | 2:16 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

This article is way overblown. The only thing Redford was saying about Mormons is that they are trained to articulate a message (which they are). The comment about being plastic was specifically directed at Mitt Romney (and it's largely true).

Take a couple deep breaths. The world's not out to get Mormons. And really, if you're looking at people much more blatant in their feelings about Mormons, don't look at liberals, look at evangelical conservatives.

BAC | 2:19 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

The free advertising for "Lions of the Lamb" didn't work very well. It should have been renamed "Cubbies in the Den" , but RR is persistent.

Re: Henry | 3:10 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Why do you feel the need to lump in Gays with Mormons? If your not LDS then don't speak for the rest of us. It's clear, with your quote of left winger Andrew Young that you feel guilty about something. Don't tell us were all biased. Bottom line, I don't care one bit for Redford, but as an LDS person, I wasn't offended.

Old Enough | 3:44 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Ref to the Catholic comment when JFK was running for President.
Yes, the people were scared to death that the US Presidency was going to be ran by the POPE and we would loose our freedoms.

Did not Happen then either.

Shawn | 3:49 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Hey Henry, your knowledge of Romney and Muslims on his cabinet is so typical of people who donï¿½t read the details from more than one or two sources. Being Muslim isnï¿½t the issue. Population wise, Muslims are too few in numbers to justify a cabinet position just because their a Muslim. Romney never said he wouldnï¿½t appoint a person to the cabinet who also happened to be Muslim. Being Muslim is simply not the selection criteria Romney will use; as it should be.

As for Reobert Redford or any entertainer, their political opinions simply do not matter even though they think they do. I for one simply will not pay to see any of their films as my way to voice my objection to their political wonderings.

Who cares | 3:53 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Who cares what Robert Redford says? He's an actor. He couldn't even be nice to the Mormon he married and professed to love. Maybe he was faking it when he told her he did? I guess she finally saw the plasticness.

Nyron | 3:55 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

It is true we as male Mormons do a lot of the same things over and over. Basically it is the concept of training. Do it until you get it right. I would appreciate, Mr. R. doing more homework though.

SLM | 3:57 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

You guys are reading entirely too much into this. Redford's comments that "every Mormon man" goes on a mission is clearly false, but it seems to me to be a genuine misconception in his part. And I don't see anything offensive or mailicious about the error. He said "all" Mormon men, when really it is only "some." So what? Anyone who is offended by that mistake is clearly choosing to be.

As for the "plastic" comment, I read that as being directed specifically at Romney, not Mormon men in general. Redford's point seems to be that Mormon missionaries have to learn the skill of sticking to their message (the Gospel) even with they have "blows" (verbal attacks, misinformation, and all the other challenges a missionary faces) coming at them. Not only is that not an insult, it even almost sounds like a compliment. And then he simply concludes that in Romney's case, his display of that skill is "plastic." You think Redford is the first one to suggest that a politician is phony? I think we're being hypersensitive here.

(Sidenote: in its original sense, "plastic" simply means malleable, shapable, not "artificial"... FYI)

AZ Mike | 4:49 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Re: not sure...

Your statement, "if you don't go on a mission in the LDS church, it is hard to fit perfectly in the culture ever afterwards." is misguided at best. I have served in a Bishopric for seven years now with a "non-mission" Bishop and "non-mission" 2nd Counselor. They both fit perfectly into Mormon culture. Maybe your comment centers on the Utah Mormon culture?

WoW! | 5:08 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

I think the ones on here who are members and are looking within analytically are really the one's who are the true members. There are pockets around the state where such things as kidnapping have happened because of this plastic attitude. Civil right have been trampled on and a people have been held back because they didn't buy into the norm set by the dominant religion. Opportunities have been wasted on both sides to come to some kind of civil understanding. Character assasination and hurt feelings abound when the system heavily favors one side without ever feeling true charity to others. Even members who have made gallant efforts in mediation have often been looked upon as a crusader who just aren't right. Honesty is such a lonely word , yet those that go against what is percieved to be the norm are to be commended because the minute I think I have heard all the rhetoric there is one that actually cares and listens,will emerge causiing me to not generalize!So I deal with a person one at a time!

To Henry Drummond | 5:31 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Henry,

Please don't follow suit with the rest of the media and misrepresent the comments of Mitt Romney about Muslims. He never said he would not have someone of the Muslim faith in his cabinet. All he said was that he wouldn't appoint someone to his cabinet based solely on their being a Muslim.

Carole Knowles | 5:55 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

An actor calling LDS men plastic. Has he looked in the mirror lately?

Doug | 5:56 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

So Mr.Redford, you think when Christ tells us to "love thy neighbor has thyself" and we decide to heed that advise and apply it in our lives, we are plastic? And when God commanded Moses not to kill, steal or have any graven images, and we decide to again incorporate those principles in our lives, we are plastic? Or when growing up and our parents would teach, advise and counsel us and we did as they asked, we are plastic? When we heed the advise and warnings from an individual we consider a prophet, we are plastic? If that is plastic, then I am proud to say I am plastic.

JC Naples, FL | 6:18 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

The reason Redford's comments did not receive any attention is that he is a marginalized has-been.

He is irrelevant to any topic of substance. He is like the 80 year-old grandfather with alzheimer's, he is tolerated, but ignored.

Sundance has ridden into the sunset folks.

question | 6:19 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Robert redford? the name sounds familier. Wasn't he an actor in the 70's

SLC | 6:40 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Hicks is right. The problem is that Redford intended to criticize Romney, and maybe Republican politicians in general, but found it perfectly acceptable along the way to take a bigoted pot-shot at Mormons.

Mason | 6:44 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Robert Redford is just a washed up old useless liberal who has nothing going for him so he resorts to what the hollywood left does, blame anyone who believes in God as the problem. It would be nice if the God fearing people of Utah would not support his useless Sundance festival, all the those films are about drugs, sex, perversion, molestation, satan, gay-lesbian that would not have a chance in the theatres nationwide, so they have this retarted festival for people to go and view and think it is some miracle that worthless films exist. Mr. Redford age is showing heavily, phyisically and MENTALally!!!!

every religion | 6:48 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

has the "plastic" and the sincere. My dad did not go on a mission but now is a Stake President. People really dont care. But there are some exceptions. It is because we are in such a unique culture and such a high LDS population that you see such a number of people who claim to be offended or their neighbor is mean to them cause they didn't go on a mission.

plastic vs substance | 6:49 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

The mormon people have been so busy setting themselves apart and tooting their own horns about how they are so holier-than-thou, that they freak out when people notice.
Plastic vs the real deal is an accurate descriptive term.

don peay | 6:51 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Redford,at his Sundance "wilderness resort" has clear cut timber, built mechanized ski lifts to acces the back country, damed up the north fork river to create a hold pond, built houses and lodging in environmentall sensity areas, constructed a dining lodge on top of a ridge for lunch, cleary within view scape of the wilderness boundary, ALL ACTS clear within violation of the Wilderness act.

Yet, he is Utah's leading advocate for Wilderrness designation.

Sundance is a nice place, but why can Redford do all things and it is OK, yet on all other public lands, he wants Wilderness ?

Clearly a true hypocrite, not worhty of much more discussion

He's no expert | 6:52 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Consider the source. Redford isn't an expert on Utah, only Sundance. He isn't an expert in politics, just has a big mouth, and an outlet to whine. He isn't an expert on Mormons, he just married one. He has no expertise in any of these areas, so his comment on Utah, Politics or Mormons are his opinion, and not worth anyone's time.

Redford is an expert at one thing... making really bad films. And he is one of the very best at is, bravo. If he would like to make comments on how to make miserably bad films, I know I would listen. The man is legend there.

George | 6:58 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

To Chris Hicks: I thought this was a "news" paper. That article ran on November 8th. You mention "slandering Mormons has gradually become a national pastime". What do you expect, when you keep dragging old whorthless articles back around as if it were news. Let it die a natural death. Besides, who cares what Robert Redford says or thinks.

tld | 7:18 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

All in favor of censuring Robert Redford for his comments about Mormon men being "plastic" please signify by raising your right hand.

Anonymous | 7:18 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

I like the last line...let's leave religion out of it. Yeah, right, like that happens in Utah. Nope, that gorilla is in every room where politics is discussed, and now and again it stinks. Like now.
I'm no fan of celebrity in any form but Redford is more or less on the money. It's a bit of a generalisation, to be sure, but it's true. A lot of mormons, especially men, have a 'defend the faith' script well memorised, able to argue fine points like injury lawyers. It seldom seems sincere or genuine.
In any case, maybe there's a message in here. The mainstream rebranding efforts of the church inc. haven't paid off yet. Up on the big stage, it seems that the costume is a little thin, and mormonism needs a bit more polishing before it is seen as absolutely mainstream. Call in the PR people.

Move On | 7:23 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Are we really still discussing this???

Let's move on. We're beating the rigormortis out of this horse.

Initial statements and reactions are fine -- as long as they match the ideals of patience, forgiveness, and turning the other cheek -- we so loudly proclaim. However, this is old, old news.

Why re-incite peoples anger now??

Unpleasant comment? Yes. But it is time to move forward.

I'm suprised this piece was published. It was written two weeks ago by 400 others who posted in response to Redford's comments.

Marky | 7:29 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Lighten up. It's Robert Redford. Is there anything more artificial or "plastic" than a man who makes a living by pretending to be something or someone that he is not?

Who cares what he says or thinks about the Mormon religion? His day in the sun is just about over. As he continues to age and lose his boyish charm and looks, he will become increasingly irrelevant. At the other end of the spectrum is Joseph Smith. His relevance in the world continues to grow many years after his death.

true blue | 7:34 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

To Henry Drummond,

Romney never said he wouldn't have a muslim on his cabinet, what he said was he didn't think it was necessary to have a muslim on the cabinet in order to understand islamic extremist.

Make sure you know the facts.

Reality | 7:47 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

There is enough truth in what Redford is saying to merit attention to improving our manners. For those who would like first hand experience attend a Sunday preisthood meeting as a freethinking curious member and learn how easy you are silenced and ostracized until you have learned the lesson of conformity.

Remain calm... | 7:58 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

We've had this argument already. Does the DNews have a quota for reader comments and feel the need to reprint controversial stories to meet those quotas?

A few comments are calm and well reasoned but most turn into mindless rantings from what seems to be the worst of our communities.

There is a reason they require your name and address to be printed in the editorials that make the actual paper. Being anonymous allows people to say and act in ways they never otherwise would.

Robert Redford spoke his mind. Do I agree with all of it? No. What he has to say in the long run has little to do with how I feel about myself and my religion though. I'm sure he has many good qualities and I will choose to think of him in that way. The rest we should just deal with and move on.

kyle | 7:59 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

slow news day?

Lose the edge! | 8:01 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Redford's comment was in fact "lazy" and rushed and inaccurate and it deserved to be corrected. BUT let's lose the "everyone's out to get us" edge. I like Redford but this is a Hollywood celebrity sharing an opinion - nothing more. It's not as if Boggs issued another extermination order. The more we react, the more "plastic" we sound.

Roger | 8:09 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

I thought all young men were commanded to go on missions. In fact, that is why I went. Saying Mormon boys aren't required to go on missions is like saying Mormons aren't required to abstain from alcohol. Sure, some donï¿½t, but that doesnï¿½t mean it isnï¿½t a commandment. If Jay Leno would have said, ï¿½Mormons donï¿½t have sex before marriageï¿½ would you object and say that many in fact do, and cite free agency as the reason?

Redford was correct: the *way* that Romney deflects blows and stays on message is plastic. Itï¿½s a speech pattern missionaries are taught. As a missionary, I spent an hour every day role playing ï¿½effectiveï¿½ and ï¿½ineffectiveï¿½ ways to express my feelings. ï¿½Effectiveï¿½ wasnï¿½t defined as sincere, but rather as being clear and confident. The Missionary Guide would give an example of a missionary saying something like, ï¿½I think the church might be true; itï¿½s the best thing Iï¿½ve come across so far!ï¿½ If you were role playing in the MTC and said that, youï¿½d be reproached for not displaying enough confidence, and would then practice saying something more effective, like, ï¿½I know the church is true.ï¿½

Plastic? You bet.

Redford leave Utah -please | 8:17 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

A note to Bob Redford - leave Utah PLEASE! You only spend a couple of months high atop your glorious perch at Sundance and then you fly back to your Malibu beach house to be amoung your wonderful Holywood flakes. You never were a real Utah resident anyway. Has anyone ever had a Redford sighting out in public - other than some celeb event? No way. Bob is too good for the normal folks of Utah many of which are ...gasp....MORMONS!!! This idiot knows next to NOTHING about the LDS faith, its missionary program but like many of his uninformed brethren in the acting business (Shawn Penn, etc..) he likes to open his mouth alot and insert his foot. We really don't need or want you in Utah Bob. Time to move on man!!

Am I Wrong? | 8:18 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

The part of the article that stood out to me:"Mormons aren't robots. One of the LDS Church's basic tenets is that people have been given free will to choose for themselves."

My understanding is that one of the basic tenets of the LDS church is "obedience" - isn't that contradictory to "free will"? I also remember something about the LDS Church encouraging - "Do not question authority".

willie | 8:23 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

from the comments posted, it appears that Mormons ARE thin skinned. "Oh poor me, I'm being picked on because I'm peculiar" is the mantra I see here. And Mormons wonder why they are picked on with great regularity. It is because you bring it on yourself! Want to stop being thought of as weird, judgmental and holi-than thou? Well, stop doing it.

JB | 8:25 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

There is no question the ramifications of anti-Mormon remarks are far less than, say, an anti-Jewish (or pick your minority) remark. Look no further than the UofU paper. I must admit, I felt complimented by Redford's remarks, until the dig at the end. Nice. And his opinion, unfortunately, does matter than most (to the "outside world") because he is likely the most famous Hollywood celebrity in Utah (not that it says much). His remarks will take on more authority, whether merited or not.

Will his opinion ever affect my life? No. Am I offended that my sincerety is called into question by many of the people in this forum because I am taught to be a good citizen and "love my neighbor"? Saddened, but I'll pull through.

Tom in Evanston | 8:35 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Mr. Redford is certainly welcome to his opinions but like other intellectually bankrupt, mean spirited inhabitants of Zion, why would he continue to live and do business among us if he feels this way. It amazes me that so many folks who live in the area stay here where they are constantly confronted with so many things/behaviors that disgust them? Their actions bely the fact they like to be around us "plastic" people. It's also interesting the comments offered up on Robert's statements are not laced with vitriol or diatribe. Maybe we should just turn the other cheek and love him to pieces...or not.

Anonymous | 8:35 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Redford Rules! The truth hurts! OUCH!!!!

Rich | 8:38 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

A bigot is a bigot. Some of you commenting on this article are bigots. Being an ex-Mormon does not excuse your bigotry. It's easy to determine who's a bigot. It's somebody who judges somebody they don't know by a stereotype of the group to which they belong. Anybody who thinks that all blondes are dumb is a bigot (and stupid as well). Are all Jews cutthroats in business? Are all Mexicans lazy? Are all gays pedophiles? Are all ex-Mormons immoral? As somebody who has lived outside of Utah, I've heard bigoted comments about Mormons and others my entire life. Hearing them has helped me recognize and reject stereotypes about many groups. Those of you who believe and perpetrate stereotypes are bigots, whether you realize it or not. Stereotypes hurt. Passing on a stereotype says a great deal about your ignorance, stupidity and meanness.

Anti-bigot | 8:39 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

The odd thing about a stereotype is that it usually results from a minority rather than a majority. In fact, if you believe the opposite of a stereotype, you'll usually get it right. Most Mexicans I know work very hard. Most Catholic priests are moral. Most blacks are just as honest as anybody else (and aren't very good at basketball, either). Ironically, anti-Mormon bigots often blame Mormons of bigotry. How stupid they are to say such things as all Mormons hate gays, or Mormons hate non-Mormons, or Mormons hate liberals, or Mormons are racial bigots. I've known some Mormons who are bigots, but most Mormons I've known are among the most loving, accepting people on earth.

"Top 10 Class Act?" | 8:42 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

As a young man I used to enjoy Bob Redford's work on the big screen. I have watched him become bigoted, bitter and cynical as he has aged. This is not his first "comments" about mormons or other Utah issues. It is interesting how he is another example of "biting the hand that feeds him" from a people that is so willing to embrace him. I wonder how many "Mormons" ski at his resort or support the other activities that go on there each year? What good does it do to voice those negative opinions and feelings openly? Maybe he should move to Hollywood where he can revel in his glory as a ten act. Another layer of luster has been tarnished from one "hollywoods golden boy's" image. Oh yeah, I forgot,this type of behavior helps them in Hollywood right?

Reality | 8:43 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

Thanks, and congradulations to the Deseret News for its courage and fairness in supporting an open forum for public expression of different views of today's news. Other news papers should follow The Deseret News lead. Other news papers require information on participants so that they build up an information base of names that will be used to contact for commercial use. The last thing I need is more junk mail or telephone calls. Again, thx DN>

Walter | 8:47 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

We should know by now that liberals have only one agenda and it is to promote their own agenda, so when Redford makes senceless comments like that one, he is only trying to get free publicity for his new movie, we shouldn't pay attention to it

Joseph Mitchell | 8:47 a.m. Nov. 30, 2007

The article title speakes for it's self, and says it all!

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