Reader comments
Utah animal cruelty laws among weakest

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True Christian | 6:01 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007

Just don't make comments here that offend the Mormon moderator - they deleted my post...

Feels like Nazi control

Paul | 6:31 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007

Steve,

Its a good debate. I am absolutely biased and you are correct that no one is without it. But it used to be that news outlets at least attempted to be fair.

I am totally against a law change for two reasons: the subject is so totally emotionally charged that I don't trust that rational law will ultimately come from this; and I don't trust that it will be applied in a rational way (per my personal experience). I don't think it is possible with the diversity of animal life and the complexity of our relationships with them to apply THIS law fairly. I fear that many good innocent people will be sacrificed at the animal lover alter to satisfy their lust for vengance.

The truest basis for the two sides of this argument is this: which life has more value? The human or the animal.

Paul | 6:54 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007

What part of tying up a dog to a chain in a 3 foot x 4 foot cage is appropriate? Help me understand why you are okay with that behavior. I want to know if you would like to have that done to you. And, whomever is quoting the Bible up there, do not forget the Bible was written a bizzlion years ago. We need to move forward.

Comments continue below

Sleepy | 6:55 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007

I can't believe how quick every news outlet in the state has eaten this "news" up. It was a press released to every station and paper and they are taking this release and running with it like it is news. This commie lib group that sent the release is loving the front page headlines and top stories on the local news. They are also loving the fact that everyone on comment boards are going at each other. I don't have an opinion on animal abuse laws, but I do have an opinion on liberal hit pieces that pit brother against brother. Shame on them!

Paul | 7:33 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007

The dog in question has a 12 square foot dog house (thats 3 feet by 4 feet), double insulated and room for 3 or 4 of this dog. He is chained to it with a 30 foot cable giving him a 60 foot diameter circle to run which is the equivalent of 188 feet to run. The frivolous charge was strictly based on "not enough shade." What the wack job didn't bother to consider was the temperature in the dog house. I helped take the temperature samples for the defense. It was found that the temperature in the dog house was the same as any other shade source outside we could find.

So this person faced jail (a misdemeanor is also jailable offence), the loss of his livelihood and all the family trauma that ensues. He also had to endure the warrentless confiscation of his property (the dog) and fight these charges which proved frivolous.

To:Jeremy | 7:40 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007

Jeesh, anonymity does some crazy things to people. Last time I checked this was a discussion forum and not a name calling session. Apparently because I have shared my opinion I am "childish, uncivilized and not intellectual." I disagree, but that is as far as I am taking it. Wouldn't want to be even more childish. From now on maybe we should all keep our opinions to ourselves so we can appear civil and intelligent.

Animals taste great | 8:06 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007

Amen Tom.
What the heck is wrong with you PETA people that you always have to be going around pressing charges and changing laws for no good reason?
I really think if you had to scrabble and fight every day to feed and protect your own family, you wouldn't care a rats hinny about the neighbors dog.
Come on, with terrorist flying planes into buildings, isn't there something else you could do with your time besides sitting around on your hands and look for some trival law to change?

paul | 10:00 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007

Poor guy. I wonder how he would be in 100 degree weather NO SHADE. Lost his livihood, family trauma and oh no not the dog. All for a little shade. Hope he learned the lesson. Or he will keep repeating it until he does.

Joshua | 10:24 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007

Back to a comment earlier by Jeremy.

I don't know where you're getting your info, but the FBI does NOT currently track animal abuse in the states. That actually is one of the proposals that has been pushed in Washington for years, yet to no avail. Also, Utah doesn't keep good records of animal abuse crimes. Further, even if Utah had good crime stats for animal abuse, and it showed a low number of cruelty cases, that doesn't actually equal a low rate of abuse. It could very well mean a low rate of enforcement.

Further, if you read the whole study, instead of just the article here in the Deseret News about the study, which I did -- it's available on the Animal Legal Defense Fund's website -- you would have seen that the study looks at a lot more than simply what the cruelty penalty is here. They also included animal fighting, mental health provisions, laws to help shelters save money, and a whole slew of other animal protection issues. Utah ranked very low in a whole lot of areas, not just because our law doesn't have a felony component yet.

Yvonne | 11:04 a.m. Nov. 15, 2007

Anyone who is deliberately cruel to an animal will treat a child or another, weaker,person in exactly the same way. It is the pleasure and feeling of power gained from causng pain that provokes systematic animal, child and spouse abuse. If the monsters who gain highs from torturing living beings weaker than themselves can be made to see that the punishment will outweigh their perverted pleasure it might provide some measure of protection for those beings most at risk.

Hardware74 | 11:15 a.m. Nov. 15, 2007

I guess when I moved here from another state where the laws are stricter and your animals are appendages of yourself, I expected the same. Sad to say, horses are livestock to many owners or just mounts for hunting season, they are neglected vet care and farrier care and fed anything to keep them alive. I come from a place where this is not the norm so I don't understand why anyone who has any pet would abuse or neglect it. They are living breathing animals who depend on us for their health and well being. If you abuse or neglect this responsibility I believe you should be held accountable, not just because you have tortured an animal. Consistent neglect is torture, not being fed is torture, being kept alive barely is torture. Come on people, speak up for those who don't have a voice!

Jerry | 12:43 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

Let me repeat. Animals are not people. What is the determination for being a protected animal? Is it the size of the brain? If it is, then many of you PETA-types posting here would not score high enough to be protected under the proposed law.

Steve - To Paul | 12:46 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

Steve - To Paul

You asked which animals deserve protection (under this law) and how we decide what's a felony. First, I'd say every animal deserves protection from intentional torture and abuse... but I agree with how this proposed law doesn't effect farm animals (meaning those who raise animals such as chickens and cows for meat won't be charged). Second, I think it's fairly easy to distinguish who would be charged and get this felony... true cruelty is blatantly obvious when it occurs. Sure there will probably be more people like your friend getting reported if this law passes, but many such people won't get convicted... it should all work out. The same thing happens with those who are over zealous about protecting human children, but if people start being more careful in the extreme to avoid implications with their animals just as they do with their children then that's good for the welfare of all animals I say.

You also asked which life has more value, human or animal (humans are animals by the way). I say they are of equal value, but I admit I'd still save a family member first in a fire.

Steve - Paul, about that Dog | 12:56 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

How much of the day was that dog chained up outside (rather than getting to run around free) opposed to getting to come inside, spend time with the family and go places? Also did it remain outside through all sorts of extreme weather conditions (heat and cold, rain and snow) or did the family bring it inside with them at those times?

Something to remember about dogs, they don't sweat so it's much harder for them to cool off. Also, they are pack animals... meaning they have an instinctive need to be with others and the human family they belong to becomes their "pack". So you see, to leave a dog for hours on end alone in your yard wouldn't be the best thing.

On a side note (for everyone in general, not you): something that bugs me is those who let their dog ride in the back of their open bed truck. The dog could easily fall or jump out and get hurt, run over or killed... or just run away after jumping and you'd never see it again.

To: animals taste great | 4:52 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

What you're doing is wrong. You said we shouldn't worry about this when we're scraping by to survive and while terrorist are flying airplanes into buildings.

Utah is not poor. It is a very wealthy state that acutally polutes and wastes quite a bit because of how generally wealthy we are. Terrorist aren't flying airplanes into buildings. They did one day years ago, and it was terrible, but to say, "We must ignore real life because bad things happened in New York" is just wrong thinking.

Someone put a quote on here from Ghandi about peoples relations with animals saying alot, and I think the fact that people would say I don't care about animals at all is shameful and embarrassing.

This is a real issue. I'm not sure what you did today to stop airplanes from hitting buildings, so let's focus on the things that affect us.

Anonymous | 5:15 p.m. Nov. 16, 2007

Am i the only one that gets fed up with animals? Dogs that aren't taken care of always following me when im trying to go on a peacful walk, barking at nights so i can't sleep. Im sick of dogs and would shoot em all if it werent for these stupid laws. If this is all these animal lovers have to worry about there lives must be wonderful.

Please dont sue | 7:07 p.m. Nov. 16, 2007

I rarely try to pick up on women for fear of being mistaken for a harrasser. I avoid looking at or speaking to outside children so I am never mistaken for a predator. If they sucessfully add felony charges to animal abuse I may no longer house animals for fear of federal prison if I swat my dog for deficating the furniture.

what | 10:13 p.m. Nov. 16, 2007

anonymous I can see why you are anonymous You should be in jail. This is precisely why we need these laws, sounds like you have a wonderful life. Maybe you could go for a nice stroll or have a good nights rest in prison.

May West | 9:19 p.m. Nov. 18, 2007

Farmers and Ranchers will be held accountable. That's the fear and that's why the laws are lax.

Anonymous | 2:09 p.m. Dec. 4, 2007

There are so many dogs just living in a small pen some without adequate cover and warmth from the heat and snow. let the owners go spend the night in a drafty dog house and see how warm they stay with snow on the ground or the cold winds blowing through.

i think utah should change the animal cruelty laws.

Karlee | 2:59 p.m. Dec. 4, 2007

Hi, I am 16 and writing a paper on animal abuse. I don't want to read anymore comments. Adults are scary; you are saying "No laws for animal abuse"? Search the web! Did you know that there is over 60 million households in the us that has one or more pets, and sadly, 88% animals in those households have been reported to have been abused? Not only that but it is most likly that the children in those house holds are being abused also. And 1 out of 3 cases the child who witnessed this bahavior will continue this cycle and sry to say but there is laws and those children, when they grow up will go to jail for animal abuse. All i'm saying is don't get any house animals if your going to abuse them. Thanks~

Local Farmer | 9:41 a.m. March 5, 2008

I believe this bill was necessary to protect the pets that people who live in the city own and enjoy. That being said, there also needs to be some understanding about animals that become a nuisance to neighbors. As a farmer, I need to protect my income producing animals from predators, which in some cases are actually pets or animals belonging to neighbors. Sometimes city dwellers dump their trouble causing pets into agriculture areas. There ex-pets very quickly become a serious problem. I am very gentle and compassionate with all animals, but lets be reasonable. I can not allow neighbors uncontrolled pets to harass and threaten my family or animals. I therefore will use what ever action that is necessary to deal with a problem animal. I am concerned that someone might view my action as cruelty or even torture.

buda | 8:44 p.m. June 16, 2008

Jeremy... if a dog could save your son's life based on medical breakthroughs in technology, you would commit your son to death, for no more dogs would exist under you idealism.

"Again, if we have among the lowest rates and among the lowest repeat offender rates then the laws are working."

Dude, if you have among the lowest rates and the lowest repeat offenders... then you are saying the majority of cruelty cases are unreported. The laws are not working and ignorant people like you believe the laws are... get a life and think from a different perspective.

Animal science to aid human longevity, to cure diseases and to eliminate contagions is among the worlds best hope for a better future. Dogs (as an example) have rights, they can be trained to smell specific illnesses way before our "advanced" medical science can even detect them. Dogs use more than three fourths (3/4, three quarters) of their body for their sense of smell.

buda | 8:51 p.m. June 16, 2008

An example of needed animal protection and animal rights... The crocodile or alligator (even though they are not indigenous to Utah) they are able to digest highly diseased "food" without contracting any disease.

The animal has the ability to neutralize diseases... and the animal's importance is helping researchers to find a cure for: Cancers, Aids, and many other diseases. Live life a little... read and increase your awareness of the world around you, if you can read. If not, watch a video on it (its a thing that goes into a V.C.R. or Compact Disk Player... those are electrical devices and usually does not require much intelligence to operate!!!)

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