Reader comments
Utah animal cruelty laws among weakest
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Conejo | 2:37 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
When we can keep felons who victimized humans in prison without getting out
early for overcrowding then I will think about doing the same with those who
victimize animals.
Camille | 5:33 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
This really has to change. Alot of people think that it's just an animal,
but animals feel pain too and need to be loved and taken care of just like
people do.
Comments continue below
Hardware74 | 6:22 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I think it is time for Utah to step up. I see many starving, sick horses with
foot problems where I board my horses and no one does anything! They are fed
moldy hay and everyone here says it's okay until the colic started. Someone
needs to step up and say this is unacceptable and make owners accountable. Who
do we report this too?
More real news please | 6:59 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
yawn...
Kevin | 7:24 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
People should watch the snow Animal Cops on the Animal Planet network (my
dog's favorite channel). It's unbelievable how cruel and neglecting
people are to their animals. If people saw this show, they might have the
empathy to make the cruelty laws stronger.
john | 7:30 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Animals have more rights than unborn children. That's pretty sad.
Paul | 8:16 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
This story is a perfect example of of the media's intense desire to mold
public thought and behavior by editorializing and labeling it as news. I
watched a couple of the major TV outlets position this story the same way last
night: "Utah has the WORST animal abuse laws in the nation."
According to who?
This is news? Why not: "Utah has the BEST animal abuse laws in the nation." Because that isn't news either. It belongs in the section of the newspaper where opinion writers and editorial boards hang out.
Today's acceptance of such dishonest journalism is not progress in my opinion. But I guess the old fashioned ideal of honest, unbiased news reporting doesn't sell newspapers anymore? Sounds like everyone is worried about declining subscription rates among printed news. Maybe newspapers could try what no one else is offering right now--there could be a niche for quality journalism that is currently unfilled...
This is news? Why not: "Utah has the BEST animal abuse laws in the nation." Because that isn't news either. It belongs in the section of the newspaper where opinion writers and editorial boards hang out.
Today's acceptance of such dishonest journalism is not progress in my opinion. But I guess the old fashioned ideal of honest, unbiased news reporting doesn't sell newspapers anymore? Sounds like everyone is worried about declining subscription rates among printed news. Maybe newspapers could try what no one else is offering right now--there could be a niche for quality journalism that is currently unfilled...
Attitude about animals | 8:18 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
It saddens but does not surprise me that the attitude in the postings so far
don't seem to understand that animal cruelty and animal abuse progresses to
cruelty and abuse to humans.
We have domesticated animals, particularly dogs and cats, to the point that they could not survive 'in the wild' by themselves, even though some people will dump them in the desert or leave them behind when they move, or give them away when it is inconvenient to keep them anymore.
It is important for a child to learn from the very earliest days that the animal life in its home, or neighborhood, is important. Most of the animals give unconditional love to their owners, even when mistreated.
If a child, in particular, is hurting animals - it is an extremely dangerous sign, and almost inevitably leads to future problems with society. So, even if you do not see the value of protecting animals and punishing their abusers, surely you see the value of preventing a child from becoming a teenage or adult abuser of people?
We have domesticated animals, particularly dogs and cats, to the point that they could not survive 'in the wild' by themselves, even though some people will dump them in the desert or leave them behind when they move, or give them away when it is inconvenient to keep them anymore.
It is important for a child to learn from the very earliest days that the animal life in its home, or neighborhood, is important. Most of the animals give unconditional love to their owners, even when mistreated.
If a child, in particular, is hurting animals - it is an extremely dangerous sign, and almost inevitably leads to future problems with society. So, even if you do not see the value of protecting animals and punishing their abusers, surely you see the value of preventing a child from becoming a teenage or adult abuser of people?
Bubba | 8:17 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Animals Have Feelings The Same As A Human , They Only Want To Be Fed And Loved ,
And In Return You Get Alott Of Loyaly And Love . People Who Abuse Animals Should
Get The Same Treatment As They Did To There Animal.
dont get it | 8:23 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Wondering where Jeremy gets his stats on Utah having the lowest repeat offender
rate? It is precisely people like Jeremy that Utah stands for NOT changing the
status quo. I'm sorry but didn't you read the article? Utah is at the
bottom of the list. Jeremy we all love our kids and pets. Only some people
really mean it. If you love your dog, why wouldn't you agree that they
need protection. They my friend, are helpless. They rely on the human species
to help them Frightful. Tie them to a tree, put them in an oven, cage them up.
That is the humane thing to do. And what do you mean, life is not held at the
same level? Life is life is life.
willie | 8:31 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
People like Jeremy claim to be good "god fearing" people, yet have no
compassion for the helpless, abused, and dependent non-humans. Until they can
empathize with the non-humans, they are hypocrites. Excusing cruelty to critters
because "the life of a human is different from animal life and must not be
held on the same level" is a real indication of ignorance and inhumane
thinking.
Bill | 9:21 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
The situation is analagous to gun control laws. We don't need more laws--we
need to strictly enforce the ones we have. We're in a bad way if we are
suckered into a new law just because one dog was terribly and inhumanely
treated. Many children are inhumanely treated--babies slammed against walls by
their mothers' boyfriends. Have our laws stopped such abuse? Why do we
think yet another law about animal cruelty will reduce the admittedly low rate
of animal cruelty? Too many people are desperate to find a cause to give meaning
to their empty lives. We have more than enough laws already.
appalled | 10:13 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I completely agree with the last three posts. Well done. I recently moved to
Utah and am appalled at the way so many people here treat not only animals, but
the environment as well. Those of you who oppose stricter laws on animal rights
are looking out only for yourselves. These kind of laws generally do not affect
hunting and farming, so relax it will only affect you if you're abusing
your pets. Again, I can't believe that many of you don't consider this
newsworthy. Abuse is wrong no matter who the recipient, and something needs to
be done!
Joshua | 10:19 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
No one in the animal camp, I'm aware of, wants people who abuse animals to
do more time than other violent criminals. This isn't an either/or
proposition -- all who are vulnerable in our society, whether they be children,
infirm, elderly, and yes, animals, should have adequate protections by our laws.
That Utah ranks so low with its animal cruelty laws, just seems out of line with
the values of respect and caring that most Utahns hold.
Important | 10:19 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
THIS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN MOST THINGS THAT ARE PUBLISHED. THE ABUSE OF ANIMALS
STARTS AT HOME. KIDS LEARN KINDNESS AND COMPASSION FROM HOME. I HAPPEN TO THINK
THIS IS QUALITY JOURNALISM. WHY ARE YOU PARTICIPATING IF YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE
IN THE PUBLIC FOREM? THIS IS ABOUT HUMANE BEHAVIOR, THE ROOT OF OUR EXISTENCE.
Catherine | 10:46 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I am constantly amazed and disgusted at the ignorance of humanity. The measure
of a civilized society is how all living things are treated. Whether that life
is human, animal, or plant life it makes no difference. Any life deserves
respect, protection and care on our part.
Abuse, neglect and torture of animals should be just as abhorrent as abuse, neglect and torture of humans. That is not saying that animals and humans are one and the same. What it IS saying is what kind of society are we living in that will stoop so low as to abuse those that are dependent on us in any way; those that are helpless; those that cannot defend themselves; and then turn a blind eye and do nothing to stop such atrocities? THAT is what this is all about. Animal cruelty should be a first-offense felony and is long overdue.
Wake up, get educated and take action to change something as fundamental as respect for lives other than our own!
Abuse, neglect and torture of animals should be just as abhorrent as abuse, neglect and torture of humans. That is not saying that animals and humans are one and the same. What it IS saying is what kind of society are we living in that will stoop so low as to abuse those that are dependent on us in any way; those that are helpless; those that cannot defend themselves; and then turn a blind eye and do nothing to stop such atrocities? THAT is what this is all about. Animal cruelty should be a first-offense felony and is long overdue.
Wake up, get educated and take action to change something as fundamental as respect for lives other than our own!
FYI... | 11:00 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Caring about animals does not mean that you don't/can't care about
people at the same time. That is such an old argument.
Many people don't like to see abuse of ANY kind, whether it be towards a child or an innocent animal.
For anyone to respond to animal abuse with "It's only an animal" and then claim that they are so loving towards their fellow man......is that the sign of a genuinely compassionate person???
Many people don't like to see abuse of ANY kind, whether it be towards a child or an innocent animal.
For anyone to respond to animal abuse with "It's only an animal" and then claim that they are so loving towards their fellow man......is that the sign of a genuinely compassionate person???
Jeremy | 11:00 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Willie? Where did I claim to be God-fearing? And why would my fear of God have
anything to do with this? Of course, God did command man to sacrifice
animals...but that's another story.
My compassion for animals isn't in question. Again, if we already have among the lowest repeat rates and if we already have among the lowest rates for abuse tell me why we need a felony law? The law we already have appears to be working.
I also don't want animals to be tortured, but this law won't stop it any more than the existing laws.
And "dontgetit" don't pretend that you have some moral high ground where you love your pet more than I love mine. Again, tell me why the current law isn't working and I'll change my view.
I am against this because it is not needed. There are a lot of laws I'm against because they're not needed, this is just one of them. Again, if we have low repeat offender rates and we have low animal abuse rates then there is no reason to pass a law just to change the status quo. If it ain't broke...
My compassion for animals isn't in question. Again, if we already have among the lowest repeat rates and if we already have among the lowest rates for abuse tell me why we need a felony law? The law we already have appears to be working.
I also don't want animals to be tortured, but this law won't stop it any more than the existing laws.
And "dontgetit" don't pretend that you have some moral high ground where you love your pet more than I love mine. Again, tell me why the current law isn't working and I'll change my view.
I am against this because it is not needed. There are a lot of laws I'm against because they're not needed, this is just one of them. Again, if we have low repeat offender rates and we have low animal abuse rates then there is no reason to pass a law just to change the status quo. If it ain't broke...
Paul | 11:02 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Animals need protection, Period!! Those who victimize animals also tend to be
violent to humans as well. Animals are defenseless creatures and anyone who
intentionally inflicts torture on them needs to be evaluated before they can act
out anything further. Not to mention that dogs love uncondionally and therefore
need someone to stand up for them if they are being tortured and/or beaten.
Jeremy | 11:06 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Appalled: Don't be so childish. Just because I don't believe that
this should be a felony doesn't mean I support clubbing baby seals.
Listen VERY CLOSELY. If Utah has among the lowest repeat offender rates and among the lowest animal abuse rates then wouldn't it appear that the current law is working?
What benefit does society get in increasing the law from a misdom. to a felony? How are our current laws any less effective than a law where animal abuse would be a felony?
Get off your moral high horse and have a civil, intellectual conversation. This is why people don't support the law: there's just no need. Stop pretending that those who don't approve of this legislation support animal abuse. That's childish, to the extreme.
Listen VERY CLOSELY. If Utah has among the lowest repeat offender rates and among the lowest animal abuse rates then wouldn't it appear that the current law is working?
What benefit does society get in increasing the law from a misdom. to a felony? How are our current laws any less effective than a law where animal abuse would be a felony?
Get off your moral high horse and have a civil, intellectual conversation. This is why people don't support the law: there's just no need. Stop pretending that those who don't approve of this legislation support animal abuse. That's childish, to the extreme.
Huh? | 11:08 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I feel sorry for Bubba. From the looks of his comment above, he needs to go back
to elementary school and learn to spell and write. And for anyone out there
who didn't pick this one up... there is no such word as alot, or alott.
They are two words, folks.
Jeremy | 11:21 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Joshua: Rather than compare us with other states in terms of laws, let's
talk about whether our existing laws work and then if we find that they
don't let's talk about changing them. Like vouchers, this has become
an emotional debate rather than a logical one.
According to the FBI, which keeps track of crime rates, Utah is among the lowest 5 states for repeat offenders of animal abuse. Utah also ranks among the lowest 5 for animal abuse rates. Meaning, very few animals are abused in Utah and those who abuse tend to highly not repeat the offense.
Our laws should be constructed as to significantly punish a person so that they do not repeat the offense. Also, it should have a "fear factor" that someone won't commit the crime because they fear the punishment.
Both of those two goals are already accomplished with current legislation. So, please explain to me why we need a felony law just for the law's sake?
I don't support animal abuse and I do support the "animalane" treatment of pets, but this law is fluff.
According to the FBI, which keeps track of crime rates, Utah is among the lowest 5 states for repeat offenders of animal abuse. Utah also ranks among the lowest 5 for animal abuse rates. Meaning, very few animals are abused in Utah and those who abuse tend to highly not repeat the offense.
Our laws should be constructed as to significantly punish a person so that they do not repeat the offense. Also, it should have a "fear factor" that someone won't commit the crime because they fear the punishment.
Both of those two goals are already accomplished with current legislation. So, please explain to me why we need a felony law just for the law's sake?
I don't support animal abuse and I do support the "animalane" treatment of pets, but this law is fluff.
Anonymous | 11:20 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by
the way its animals are treated. I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the
more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man."
-Mahatma Gandhi
-Mahatma Gandhi
Jerry | 11:41 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
The scriptures clearly state that animals are 'other beast' and
'devoid of the holy spirit'. Thus animals, while cute and cuddly, are
in a sense expendible.
Anonymous | 11:50 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
What about the children? I'm more concerned about violent offenders is
prison getting out early due to overcrowding issues. I'm more concerned
that abusive fathers having visitation rights. Yes, I know that abusive people
tend to start with animals. This is an issue the parents should properly deal
with. I'm also concerned with the slippery slope of hate crimes. I would
hate to actually spend jail time because my neighbor�s dog
scares my children in my yard and I run it off with a deserved kick. Nobody or
dog has the right to threaten my family. I would rather not have to call the
police every time the neighbor�s dog is out. How about the
occasional road kill accidents? Does this deserve a fine? I would never
intentional hit an animal with my car. Accidents do occur, when this happens
will I need to call my lawyer to prevent prosecution?
to Jeremy | 12:12 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
WE GET YOUR POINT. Quit beating us to death with it please. Apparently Utah does
need the felony status on this law. People still abuse animals and when they do
it's usually not their first offense- it's the first time they've
been CAUGHT (like so many other situations such as child abuse). The lesson
would be seriously driven home on a FIRST OFFENSE felony charge. End of story.
To Hardware74 | 12:19 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
First step in protecting/helping the neglected, poorly treated horses - contact
the Humane Society, or ASPCA or whatever you have in Utah. They should have
investigators who can go out and (depending on the laws in Utah) give a warning,
require medical treatment with proof it was done, or begin seizure proceedings
to take the animals out of what sounds like a horrible situation.
Also - generally,to all pet owners - have your cat/dog (whatever) spayed or neutered. Don't put it off because you want your children to witness the miracle of birth! (arrange to perhaps go to a farm and watch calves, lambs, goats or whatever being born??) There are extremely high numbers of puppies/kittens/cats/dogs being put to sleep in Utah.
Also - generally,to all pet owners - have your cat/dog (whatever) spayed or neutered. Don't put it off because you want your children to witness the miracle of birth! (arrange to perhaps go to a farm and watch calves, lambs, goats or whatever being born??) There are extremely high numbers of puppies/kittens/cats/dogs being put to sleep in Utah.
Steve | 12:41 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Jeremy, why do you fear making this a felony so much? The very idea seems to
revolt you. What harm would be done by making it a felony? Perhaps it would
lead to better laws for protection of children/people when those who think
"why are you doing this just for an animal when people get less
protection" see it. By passing Henry's Law, as we SHOULD, it could
cause a snowball effect and other laws would become tougher as many of them need
to be too.
And this law isn't just about animal rights, it also serves to help and protect people. Animal abuse is often tied directly to domestic abuse. Many times abusive husbands/fathers keep their family "in line" by threatening to harm the family pet (or actually hurting it). And many women don't dare leave such a man for fear of what may become of the family pet if it's left behind since the women's shelter doesn't allow pets/animals (I've read stories about exactly this happening).
A Felony on the FIRST offense is what every state NEEDS.
And this law isn't just about animal rights, it also serves to help and protect people. Animal abuse is often tied directly to domestic abuse. Many times abusive husbands/fathers keep their family "in line" by threatening to harm the family pet (or actually hurting it). And many women don't dare leave such a man for fear of what may become of the family pet if it's left behind since the women's shelter doesn't allow pets/animals (I've read stories about exactly this happening).
A Felony on the FIRST offense is what every state NEEDS.
AS | 12:53 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Well let's see, to all those who oppose toughening animal cruelty laws, I
recommend sitting in an oven at 200 degrees until your hands and feet start
melting together, you suffer severe burns, and lose an eye. Then perhaps you
will find you have some empathy for a completely helpless set of society.
Steve: to Paul | 12:54 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
More than one Paul has replied it seems, this is directed at the first one
(posted at 8:16 a.m. today).
You asked according to whom Utah has the worst animal protection laws, they come to this conclusion based on the fact that we are among those who offer the least amount of protection and the most lax punishments. This is fact, so stop trying to say the Deseret News or any other media outlet reporting this is twisting the story or sensationalizing it. Coverage of this story shouldn't be shoved to the back of the paper as you suggest, it is a legitimate news story that belongs among the other national or local news. It is a very important issue.
You asked according to whom Utah has the worst animal protection laws, they come to this conclusion based on the fact that we are among those who offer the least amount of protection and the most lax punishments. This is fact, so stop trying to say the Deseret News or any other media outlet reporting this is twisting the story or sensationalizing it. Coverage of this story shouldn't be shoved to the back of the paper as you suggest, it is a legitimate news story that belongs among the other national or local news. It is a very important issue.
AS | 12:54 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
That by the way is what happened to Henry, as in "Henry's Law".
I'm not sure if this article actually mentioned what happened to Henry the
dog. Over on KSL they detailed his abuse, in case anyone was wondering.
mel | 1:16 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
To Jerry,
You need to put your scriptures away. Animals are defenseless creatures (very much like children), they need and deserve our protection. I believe someone who would abuse a living thing (any living thing) is scum.
You need to put your scriptures away. Animals are defenseless creatures (very much like children), they need and deserve our protection. I believe someone who would abuse a living thing (any living thing) is scum.
re:Steve | 1:17 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I fear jail time for defending myself from a neighbors pet or a simple car
accident. If you want to change laws to protect children then pass them. This is
a not about children. Passing this law does not stop domestic violence in the
slightest. If a battered woman goes to a shelter, her husband can always legally
be able to have the animal put to sleep. Abusive people especially children on
their way to becoming an abusive adult will not know how serious the charge is
until they are charged. Therefore, this is not a deterrent law.
denn034 | 1:38 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I support strengthening our animal cruelty laws.
About re:Steve (from Steve) | 1:40 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
If you truly are defending yourself from harm at the hands of some big dog
biting you, you aren't going to go to jail due to this animal torture
law... it might only come into play in that situation if it were proven you
went above and beyond defending yourself. Also, of course you won't be
charged with a crime under this law if you accidently run over the
neighbor's cat or dog while backing out of the driveway. Comments like
these show you don't fully understand this proposed Henry's Law.
Oh, and I find it troubling that you don't seem to be bothered by an abusive husband doing harm to a family pet after the wife escapes him in a shelter. He should not be able to put it to sleep out of spite and as a way to strike back at his wife, the pet belongs to her as well. Doesn't it bother you in the least that many women out there remain in harms way, getting beat and abused more, because they fear what harm may come to the animal they love?
Oh, and I find it troubling that you don't seem to be bothered by an abusive husband doing harm to a family pet after the wife escapes him in a shelter. He should not be able to put it to sleep out of spite and as a way to strike back at his wife, the pet belongs to her as well. Doesn't it bother you in the least that many women out there remain in harms way, getting beat and abused more, because they fear what harm may come to the animal they love?
to Anonymous | 2:03 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I'm not saying this to be condescending in any way, but please research a
bit more on what Henry's Law is trying to accomplish by being passed. It is
a law trying to punish those people who purposely set out to inflict harm,
torture, and abuse animals -- putting dogs in an oven, starting cats on fire and
other such heinous acts. No one is going to need a lawyer if they accidentally
run over an animal. This law is not intended for those things. Please read more
about the specifics of the law to avoid confusion as to whom and what it
applies. Thank you.
Paul | 2:20 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
To Steve:
Just because your bias is the same as the article doesn't make it news. I have yet to state my personal bias regarding animal cruelty laws. When the headline (I'm especially referring to Fox News) is, "Utah has the WORST animal cruelty laws in the nation" rational educated people normally see red flags. If you got anything from your education, you could recognize the hyperbole and other logical fallacies in this argument. For example the fallacy of division: Utah has weak animal cruelty laws therefore Utah's animals suffer more.
Or how about the fallacy "appeal to popularity" or the "bandwagon fallacy." Not hard to see examples of it here either.
While you may love the subject of this article and feel it is important to many like minded people, you can't seriously call this fair and balanced news. This is agenda driven propaganda wether the content is right or wrong.
Can we have news?!
Just because your bias is the same as the article doesn't make it news. I have yet to state my personal bias regarding animal cruelty laws. When the headline (I'm especially referring to Fox News) is, "Utah has the WORST animal cruelty laws in the nation" rational educated people normally see red flags. If you got anything from your education, you could recognize the hyperbole and other logical fallacies in this argument. For example the fallacy of division: Utah has weak animal cruelty laws therefore Utah's animals suffer more.
Or how about the fallacy "appeal to popularity" or the "bandwagon fallacy." Not hard to see examples of it here either.
While you may love the subject of this article and feel it is important to many like minded people, you can't seriously call this fair and balanced news. This is agenda driven propaganda wether the content is right or wrong.
Can we have news?!
Paul | 2:41 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
One reason this law is so feared in my opinion stems from the zeal of its
proponents. Enough said about that.
You also really have to be honest and recognize that SOMEBODY gets to decide which animals get to be protected and THAT so far is ARBITRARY. Do we protect Dogs, cats, horses? Forget about agricultural practices that are supposed to be exempt. What about pet frogs? What about Little Johnny killing a wild frog? What about pet Taurantulas? How about wild Taurantulas? What about snakes? What about cockroaches?
I have an aquaintance that was charged twice with animal cruelty because an activist took issue with the 3 feet by 4 feet dog house to which the dog was chained. The activist pressed charges claiming the dog didn't have enough shade. (Never mind the dog had lived without undue stress that way for 4 year and no veternary expert was ever consulted.) I witnessed this activist come unhinged and throw this owners life into chaos as he fought off the charges.
You also really have to be honest and recognize that SOMEBODY gets to decide which animals get to be protected and THAT so far is ARBITRARY. Do we protect Dogs, cats, horses? Forget about agricultural practices that are supposed to be exempt. What about pet frogs? What about Little Johnny killing a wild frog? What about pet Taurantulas? How about wild Taurantulas? What about snakes? What about cockroaches?
I have an aquaintance that was charged twice with animal cruelty because an activist took issue with the 3 feet by 4 feet dog house to which the dog was chained. The activist pressed charges claiming the dog didn't have enough shade. (Never mind the dog had lived without undue stress that way for 4 year and no veternary expert was ever consulted.) I witnessed this activist come unhinged and throw this owners life into chaos as he fought off the charges.
Tathan | 3:26 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I just think that we need better animal protection laws. I relly want the
govener to do something about this!!! I know if someone abused my dog, I would
be really mad at them, and I would want something done about it!
Tathan | 3:33 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I just think that we need to strengthen our animal cruelty laws. I have a dog
and if somebody abused him i would want him or her punished!
Steve | 3:43 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Paul, what exactly is "news" to you? "News" is simply the
reporting of ANY sort of activities, keeping people informed, dealings with this
proposed law falls under that.
I'm just your average person and not one of those extreme zealots that you often see associated with PETA. I care about animals and protecting them is all. I also have the research of professionals on my side who have proven a co-relation between animal and human abuse. You may not agree, but this crime is something that deserves more than just a slap on the wrist (a misdomeanor).
Your friend may or may not have given that dog proper care. Are they like many other people who assume a dog house and bowels of food and water placed beside it is sufficient (all the while leaving the dog chained out there rain/snow or shine year round for hours on end and pay only minimal attention to it)? If so, I doubt the dog was stress free and fully happy. There's much more to pet ownership than providing a roof over it's head and filling the food bowel.
I'm just your average person and not one of those extreme zealots that you often see associated with PETA. I care about animals and protecting them is all. I also have the research of professionals on my side who have proven a co-relation between animal and human abuse. You may not agree, but this crime is something that deserves more than just a slap on the wrist (a misdomeanor).
Your friend may or may not have given that dog proper care. Are they like many other people who assume a dog house and bowels of food and water placed beside it is sufficient (all the while leaving the dog chained out there rain/snow or shine year round for hours on end and pay only minimal attention to it)? If so, I doubt the dog was stress free and fully happy. There's much more to pet ownership than providing a roof over it's head and filling the food bowel.
faith | 3:52 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
dont animals deserve the protection that we deserve!? in my opinion animals are
just as important to our society as much as anybody else. Animals are helpless
in a way, because without the hunting laws and the fishing laws, would
deer,moose, and other animals be in danger of going extinct? I kust hope that
something will be done about this.
Sebastian Zwirner V. | 4:13 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
HI! I think Utah is a great state, I think that�s good that
people hunt, and things like that, and fishing, I like that! I think there
should be laws to protecto innocent deers, and rabbits and ants. I love Utah!! I
hope you there have a lot of success with the law promotion! Thanks!!!
Paul | 4:14 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Steve,
Good news is balanced and written in a way to minimize the authors' bias, leaving readers to decide for themselves. The reporting on this story could have done exactly that. It could have started with a non-inflamitory headline such as "Animal rights groups seek change in Utah law" and then done a fair job representing both sides of the argument without showing favor to either side.
You make my point beautifully by the way. Who decides if my friends dog is stress free and fully happy. Does a bored dog with food, water, and shade rise to the level of Felony? Misdemeanor? You think this is fair? Wait until someone more zealous than you has your life in his/her grip because his/her definition of animal care is more stringent than yours!
This story is worse than propoganda. Its free advertising for a special interest group and it happens all the time for all kinds of special interest groups. Just because you believe it, and just because it happens all the time still doesn't eliminate its fallacious and editorial nature.
Good news is balanced and written in a way to minimize the authors' bias, leaving readers to decide for themselves. The reporting on this story could have done exactly that. It could have started with a non-inflamitory headline such as "Animal rights groups seek change in Utah law" and then done a fair job representing both sides of the argument without showing favor to either side.
You make my point beautifully by the way. Who decides if my friends dog is stress free and fully happy. Does a bored dog with food, water, and shade rise to the level of Felony? Misdemeanor? You think this is fair? Wait until someone more zealous than you has your life in his/her grip because his/her definition of animal care is more stringent than yours!
This story is worse than propoganda. Its free advertising for a special interest group and it happens all the time for all kinds of special interest groups. Just because you believe it, and just because it happens all the time still doesn't eliminate its fallacious and editorial nature.
Steve | 5:01 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Paul, again I don't know the full details of your friend's case (you
skated around my questions by the way, not detailing the dog's life and
conditions) but the only way under this proposed law that your friend would be
charged is if they were purposely setting out to inflict harm, torture or abuse.
If the dog was being kept out all day in the extreme heat we've had (even
with a bowl of water) or kept outside all day and night through the winter
(specifically at times of extreme cold) then that isn't proper care and the
accuser had reason to be concerned.
Never the less, I'm pretty sure cases such as this don't fall under this new law so you need not be all that concerned. This law is about punishing extreme cases of abuse and torture. Are you familiar with what happened to Henry, the dog this law is named after? That is what we're talking about here.
When a person who doesn't mind hurting animals knows all they'll get is a slap on the wrist if they ever get caught, that isn't much of a deterent... but I'd say a felony is.
Never the less, I'm pretty sure cases such as this don't fall under this new law so you need not be all that concerned. This law is about punishing extreme cases of abuse and torture. Are you familiar with what happened to Henry, the dog this law is named after? That is what we're talking about here.
When a person who doesn't mind hurting animals knows all they'll get is a slap on the wrist if they ever get caught, that isn't much of a deterent... but I'd say a felony is.
Paul | 5:31 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Steve,
Read you previous post then. The only question you asked was regarding the definition of news. You didn't ask for a catalogue of the dogs life. The salient points were stated in my earlier post and your reply seemed to infer that anything less than "fully happy" is a crime.
I know the story behind Henry's law very well. I also know that the proposed law isn't meant to make felons out of dog kickers. It is meant for only the most egregious cases.
My main point is about the editorial, agenda driven nature of this article. My secondary point is related to the zeal exhibited by some of the animal rights crowd and their own erronious thinking and you have helped make my point. You sound reasonable enough, look up "appeal to belief fallacy" and you might learn something.
There are those who really would love to bring the law to bear on their neighbor for letting Fifi get a little upset (caviar was a little late, sorry dear). Thank goodness they are the fringe--but they have driven this argument for better or worse.
Read you previous post then. The only question you asked was regarding the definition of news. You didn't ask for a catalogue of the dogs life. The salient points were stated in my earlier post and your reply seemed to infer that anything less than "fully happy" is a crime.
I know the story behind Henry's law very well. I also know that the proposed law isn't meant to make felons out of dog kickers. It is meant for only the most egregious cases.
My main point is about the editorial, agenda driven nature of this article. My secondary point is related to the zeal exhibited by some of the animal rights crowd and their own erronious thinking and you have helped make my point. You sound reasonable enough, look up "appeal to belief fallacy" and you might learn something.
There are those who really would love to bring the law to bear on their neighbor for letting Fifi get a little upset (caviar was a little late, sorry dear). Thank goodness they are the fringe--but they have driven this argument for better or worse.
Paul | 5:37 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Steve,
I would love for you to explain your opinion of which animals deserve protection and how we should decide what constitutes a felony.
I would love for you to explain your opinion of which animals deserve protection and how we should decide what constitutes a felony.
Steve | 5:38 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
P.S. Paul, you accuse the Deseret News article and me of being biased... but
you are as well it seems. You're angry about someone getting your friend
charged with crimes concerning their dog and apparently feel the law was
sticking their nose in where it didn't belong... so as a result
you're biased against tougher laws being passed.
Everyone is "biased" one way or another about many things in life and it isn't always bad to be so. True "fence sitters" on issues people vote on are rare, usually most everyone is for one side or the other... in your words: biased. And I see nothing wrong with a bias that helps bring greater protection for people AND animals.
Everyone is "biased" one way or another about many things in life and it isn't always bad to be so. True "fence sitters" on issues people vote on are rare, usually most everyone is for one side or the other... in your words: biased. And I see nothing wrong with a bias that helps bring greater protection for people AND animals.
Tom | 5:41 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Boy, I miss the old days. What happened to beating our dogs in peace?
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The laws aren't the issue. Giving animals "rights" is the issue. I love my son. I love my dog. But the life of a human is different from animal life and must not be held on the same level.
I am also saddened that anyone who disagrees with the idea of this legislation is said to support animal cruelty. What a joke. Again, if we have among the lowest rates and among the lowest repeat offender rates then the laws are working.