Reader comments
Governor's priorities: 6-8% wage increase for educators is No. 1
43 comments | Read story
phxcop | 12:51 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
How about a pay increase for police officers?
Bob G | 5:39 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
What a joke, this 6-8% barely meets cost of living for one year let alone a
raise over several years that does not keep up with inflation. No wonder Utah
has teacher shortages with this kind of political manuvering and injustice to
our teachers. If all the money collected for public education was put in to
public education and teachers paid fairly we wouldn't have a problem.
Putting public education funds in to the state general funds is the real
problem, they are used for other than public education. Colleges do not qualify
as public education and should receive none of the public education funds.
Besides, the colleges have billions, with a B, of tax dollars invested in the
stock market that has been diverted from the taxpayers. These taxes are
collected for public education, K1-K12 education and not for every use to be
determined by the state budget or colleges. As the system is working we have to
send high school graduates to college to get their High School equivilancy
education before they can start taking college level courses. Our primary level
teachers are underpaid, overworked with the illegals, and do not get the
recognition they deserve.
annie | 5:39 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I totally agree that teachers AND police officers are paid way too little!
Comments continue below
maybelle | 6:24 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Teachers have never received the promised pay increase for this year. What
happened to the $1000 bonus that each teacher was suppose to get? Gov Huntsman
keeps talking but nothing changes. It all sounds good but nothing comes through
on the teacher's paycheck. He needs to put his words into action.
Police officers should have an increase also.
Police officers should have an increase also.
a teacher | 6:28 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
A pay increase is good, but the reason many of my friends are quitting is
because teaching has gotten so much more stressful. Students come without basic
needs being taken care of, and many students and their parents have no respect
for other students or the teacher. I am drained by the end of the day. Lower
class sizes would help.
M | 7:38 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Havent we already heard this once before? Pretty sure we have and he hasnt
delivered yet, is it getting time for re-election? Same old promises same old
never going to happen!
Lisa | 7:51 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
It's about time! Give them even more. They directly effect the next
generation of society.
cristie | 7:57 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
could the Gov. be backpeddling after throwing his support in favor of vouchers?
he needs these votes if he is to remain in office.
Pay them more | 8:10 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I don't think a $10,000 - $15,000 raise per year would be too far fetched.
We really need to pay teacher enough to attract teachers here to Utah instead of
chasing them away.
Dear Maybelle | 8:24 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I am proud of the Governor for his stance. My wife is a school teacher and as he
promised, come December 1st she will receive a check for $995. I am not going to
take shots at him over $5. I am glad to see that a debate over vouchers has
brought education to the front of Utah politics as it receives some much needed
attention.
Wrong | 8:29 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Teachers did get the 2500 ongoing bonus and 1000 one time bonus that was
promised them.
bob | 8:46 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Teachers form our future. I dont know of anyone who does not have a story of a
teacher that has had a positive impact on their life. I think the folks on the
hill should be tied to that same increase as the teachers. I bet conditions
would improve than. Who knows they might even get all that great free health
insurance the rest of us cant afford.
reality | 8:52 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Teachers, police officers, social workers, etc. Welcome to a budget...did you
know Utah's government workers make around 80% on average what other states
are paying? Guess what, so are the employees from private industry in Utah.
Why is that you might ask? Utah has unique demographics with younger workers
with less experience...comes lower AVERAGE pay. If one properly adjusts for
tenure differences I imagine the pay issue for everyone would be shown to be
statistical insignificant. Especially if one also adjusted for cost of living
differences from surrounding states.
JML | 9:00 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
In response to maybelle
The legislature made enough money available last year so each teacher could get the $1000 bonus. The problem is with each district. Some district couldn't even accuratly report the number of teachers who were working in the district! Others justified holding back some of the money for other priorites.
District leaders are rarely held accountable for the decision they make. They sit on the sidelines and deflect the blame to the state legislature.
To M I would say that yes it will be election time soon. Put your name in the ring and make your difference!
The legislature made enough money available last year so each teacher could get the $1000 bonus. The problem is with each district. Some district couldn't even accuratly report the number of teachers who were working in the district! Others justified holding back some of the money for other priorites.
District leaders are rarely held accountable for the decision they make. They sit on the sidelines and deflect the blame to the state legislature.
To M I would say that yes it will be election time soon. Put your name in the ring and make your difference!
Observer | 9:15 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
While I certainly believe that teachers deserve better compensation for the work
they do, I also strongly believe that other state employees are underpaid as
well. In many departments of state government, the entry level employees are
required to have a Bachelor's degree (just like teachers), complete
continuing education (just like teachers), and are underpaid (just like
teachers). Unforuntately, state employees have no tenure (unlike teachers),
work 12 months per year (unlike teachers), have zero union support (unlike
teachers), and get almost zero raises (unlike teachers). Sorry, but I am sick
to death of listening to teachers whine, complain, moan, and groan about their
pay while other state employees work just as hard (or harder) for much less
compensation. Yes, they deserve more, but so do other state employees.
And...if you are going to come back with the lame argument about lesson preparation time, out of pocket spending, and grading papers at home, don't bother. That is a trite argument with very very little validity. Teachers have it pretty good!
And...if you are going to come back with the lame argument about lesson preparation time, out of pocket spending, and grading papers at home, don't bother. That is a trite argument with very very little validity. Teachers have it pretty good!
depends | 9:23 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Whether or not teachers get the $2500 raise and $1000 bonus depends on the
school district the teacher is in--some school districts gave it to the teachers
and others did not.
Instereo | 9:23 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
A pay raise is great for teachers but instead legislature should look at the
increased money to the school system instead of the individual teachers. Last
year when they gave the $2500 to teachers, they were micromanaging the school
system in contridiction to many of rules the legislature has already put in
place. In otherwords if teachers get a pay raise, classified personal are
supposed to get an equal or great increase as per state law. So schools were
left in an awkward position. Do they base classified salaries on the 6%
beginning teachers got with the $2500 or the 2.5% the senior teachers got or the
4.3% average. I think the money was given last year with the intent of breaking
the salary scedule more then to help the teachers. The legislature needs to
trust that the schools are in the business of educating children and that they
are aware of the problems, including teacher pay. So instead of micromanaging
the schools, the legislature should fund the schools adiquately and let them do
their jobs. All of Utah will receive benefits if they do that and it will help
heal the divide we have now between schools and legislature.
Who's Wron? | 9:41 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I am a Teacher, and I have not seen one red cent of any bonus of any kind.
Empty Promises | 10:01 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I'll believe it when I see it. I have no reason to trust the governor or
any politician on the hill.
The $1,000 bonus is in the mail | 10:03 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
The State Office of Education has just collected the count of all educators from
districts' November 1 employee rolls. That figure will determine how much
of the legislative bonus is transfered to each district.
As per legislative requirements, any teacher who is under corrective action will not receive the bonus.
In most districts, teachers may expect the bonus in their December paycheck. (Don't expect an even $1,000; federal/state employer and employee taxes are deducted first.)
As per legislative requirements, any teacher who is under corrective action will not receive the bonus.
In most districts, teachers may expect the bonus in their December paycheck. (Don't expect an even $1,000; federal/state employer and employee taxes are deducted first.)
Wrong you are wrong | 10:19 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Teachers did not receive the full 2500 in most districts the teachers received
about $1930.00. The bonus should come in for most districts at about $970.00.
The legislature is saying the will make up that difference this session, but as
of yet it has not happened.
Dave 4197 | 10:32 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Stay on it, guv. Pay raises for teachers are needed and are way overdue. And
hold the line on their administrators until teachers' pay is increased.
Keep the police, et al, out of this, they always want more money, they are well paid, they get OT pay, they write more tickets when they're short, and they have good lobbyists.
Keep to the teachers pay raise subject. My bias.
Keep the police, et al, out of this, they always want more money, they are well paid, they get OT pay, they write more tickets when they're short, and they have good lobbyists.
Keep to the teachers pay raise subject. My bias.
Curtis Blanco | 11:38 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Higher wages yes, teachers deserve them. Lower class sizes? In the Orient
students learn very well with class sizes larger than Utah has. The students
are very respectful though. Students should go through an orientation teaching
them the proper way to behave in class. If necessary repeat the orientation
after school or on Saturdays for those students who need a refresher. In the
orient, Students, not janitors also clean the school in teams. This helps
promote ownership, teamwork and respect for the school. If we increased these
values, we would not need to have lower class sizes, and the higher education
expense that would result, the the experience of the Orient has proved this.
State employee raises | 11:52 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007
State employees have typically received a cost of living increase similar to
what the increase in the wpu has been. I realize last year was different. That
makes it the exception not the rule. The difference in a normal year,is state
employees get that full amount of their cost of living raise, the wpu increase
is spread throughout all educational costs. Teachers typically are lucky to get
more than half the wpu increase.
LA | 12:36 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Wrong on State Employee raises.
State employees have NOT been given nor usually receive a COLA. And when they do they do not receive a merit. Go on the internet and look as public employees pay. Then you can make an informed comment.
State employees have NOT been given nor usually receive a COLA. And when they do they do not receive a merit. Go on the internet and look as public employees pay. Then you can make an informed comment.
denn034 | 1:47 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Good priorities. Here's hoping the Accounting problems that delayed the
implementation of the Flat Tax and pay hikes to substitute teachers will be
fixed as well otherwise such may not even get off the ground.
Anonymous | 1:59 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Maybe he hasn't actually given you your pay raise yet because you shot down
his voucher plan. He'll talk to make himself look good, but don't
expect to see any pay raises any time soon. And why should you? If you
didn't think you were going to make enough money, why did you go into
teaching? Idiots.
Random | 2:12 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
As many posters have pointed out, all state employees deserve a pay increase.
Let's start where there are critical shortages. I've not heard of any
supply problem with state office workers or policemen. Gov. Huntsman is right
to put teachers first on the list.
Third Generation Educator | 2:28 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
As a 3rd generation educator, I remember all too well, my father having to work
a second job his entire career just to make ends meet for an average, no frills
household.From my personal experience a $1000 bonus would nicely offset my out
of pocket classroom expenditures for basics; supplies for my students. If
teachers received a small amount for prep time before, after school, evenings
and weekends at home that too would add incentives for educators Why not start
with the fundamentals of society and see where we can plan and prepare for a
better future. WE don't need bigger, jails with more cells we need to put
our tax dollars in the classrooms and give each child a fighting chance at
becoming a productive, contributing member of our communities.
To anonymous | 3:01 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
MOST teachers aren't complaining about the pay. Sure it would be nice, but
you are right, they knew going in what it would be. That is why you have many
teachers dedicated to their profession. They are doing it because they wanted
to teach for one reason or another. There are many good teachers out there, but
there are also some that aren't the best. Without competitive pay those
who aren't the greatest do get hired or get to stay because there is no one
else to replace them. That is what the money is about. It isn't the
existing teachers that are demanding more. They are grateful for the raise -
who wouldn't be, but most of them aren't the ones who are screaming
for more money for teachers.
As a teacher... | 4:07 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I'd rather they came up with a way to make classes smaller. But it's
cheaper to give teachers a raise, then people complain that we keep getting
money...it seems like an ugly cycle but classes never get smaller, students and
teachers struggle, and people like Observer think we have it so great. We need
to get our class sizes lowered and focused on academics. Observer, you have no
idea how much time I spend outside of contract time to do my job. Frankly you
don't have to know. But your comment was "trite". You don't
have to appreciate what I do, it's my choice, but you also don't have
to belittle it either.
Insider | 5:35 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Hey Observer;
Your clueless! Yet, you talk a big story...come try teaching for a term (Should be easy; right)! The administrative abuse/lack of support, bullying tactics, NCLB and overall politics of the educational system in Utah will quickly reconfigure your thinking. Oh did I mention the students. Get a degree and bring it my friend, I could use a good laugh!
Your clueless! Yet, you talk a big story...come try teaching for a term (Should be easy; right)! The administrative abuse/lack of support, bullying tactics, NCLB and overall politics of the educational system in Utah will quickly reconfigure your thinking. Oh did I mention the students. Get a degree and bring it my friend, I could use a good laugh!
To Observer | 6:21 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
I don't think you know anything about the amount of effort mentally,
physically and emotiionally teachers go through in just one year. Not to
mention if teaching was such a breeze that your making out to be then why is
there a teacher shortage? Oh thats right maybe because an entry level teacher
doesn't make nearly as much as you do. Not to mention that you have better
benefits I'm sure! The only other people that can join in on needing more
money would be fireman and police officers, because they deserve it!!
solutions exist | 6:59 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Teachers at our school get to teach students whose parents picked the school
specifically, perhaps even chose them to be their child's particular
teacher. Parents therefore, are supportive and engaged. Students behave partly
because their parents are so invested in supporting us (and partly because we
are so much fun to be around!) Administration is incredibly focused on making
our jobs enjoyable and successful. We have class sizes from 24-30 (younger are
24) but we received great training on classroom management (including DVD
trainings from asia)and our classrooms are organized and productive.
I work in a charter school. I don't understand why teachers fight against school choice like charters and vouchers. It makes their jobs SO much better in every way. It's so strange to me that they fight against choice and then complain about how bad it is. The solutions are right in front of us but we aren't willing to accept the things that actually fix the problems being complained about. I just don't get it. There are many happy teachers in charter and private schools. It just doesn't need to be miserable.
I work in a charter school. I don't understand why teachers fight against school choice like charters and vouchers. It makes their jobs SO much better in every way. It's so strange to me that they fight against choice and then complain about how bad it is. The solutions are right in front of us but we aren't willing to accept the things that actually fix the problems being complained about. I just don't get it. There are many happy teachers in charter and private schools. It just doesn't need to be miserable.
DB | 8:26 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Sure lets give them more money! Taxes will have to rise and we will all have to
pay for their 6-8% pay increase, even those of us who don't have kids in
secondary education. Reforendum 1 is sounding pretty good right now. Let private
schools charge what they want, it wouldn't come out of mine and your tax
dollars.
Yup | 8:28 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
The Guv can say anything that sounds good because he knows our legislators will
either choose not do do anything at all or they'll give with one hand and
take with the other while only advertising what's going on with the first
hand. That's been the typical routine for the past 20 years. I'll
believe a pay raise when I get one that beats the yearly increase in cost of
living. Those have been VERY rare in my 20+ years of teaching.
Veteran | 8:46 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Regardless of how this pay raise issue plays out, it is a virtual guarantee that
veteran teachers, those with 20-plus years of experience, will be left out in
the cold. Pay raises are weighted towards beginning teachers to try and keep
them in the profession (although school districts give lip service only to the
retention thing - new teachers are always cheaper). Those of us who have been in
the system a long time will get little or nothing.
Yes, teachers went into the profession never expecting to get rich. But I never expected when I started teaching 26 years ago, that house prices would triple and price me completely out of the market. I also never expected, silly me, that the system would be so overrun with non-English speakers that it would be very difficult to do my job. I never anticipated the huge amount of disrespect that even elementary students and their parents have for teachers. It's a different world than it was when I started.
Yes, teachers went into the profession never expecting to get rich. But I never expected when I started teaching 26 years ago, that house prices would triple and price me completely out of the market. I also never expected, silly me, that the system would be so overrun with non-English speakers that it would be very difficult to do my job. I never anticipated the huge amount of disrespect that even elementary students and their parents have for teachers. It's a different world than it was when I started.
Re:Lame Observer | 9:19 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
Way to set it up, make the teachers justify how they work harder than other
state employees.
Divide and conquer.
"Lame argument with little validity here":
I changed schools, fairly new to the profession.
Hey, my desk chair was missing a leg. No others laying around.
$120.00 out of pocket.
VCR/DVD player broke $100.00 from me.
Switch box from computer to TV: $89.00.
Cable from switch box $39.00.
Connector from cable to actually work with VCR/DVD $24.00.
Wall clock didn't work, $24.00.
Stapler $19.00.
Electric pencil sharpener $40.00.
File folders, 9X12 envelopes, dry erase markers, glue sticks, glue, pens, pencils, construction paper, writing paper, ink cartriges for printer, markers, for paper, sharpies, post-it notes, correction fluid, desk pad, wire collection baskets 7 @$8.99 each.
All out of my pocket, on my credit card, low monthly payments.
"Call it "Lame", say it has "no validity", Dude, I'd kick in another $20 to buy you a clue.
What have you EVER observed? Come follow me for a day. Restroom when the bell rings, like Pavlov's dog, 35 minute lunch (duty free, but what to do when kids fight).
All to educate your children because it takes a village, and you won't help.
Divide and conquer.
"Lame argument with little validity here":
I changed schools, fairly new to the profession.
Hey, my desk chair was missing a leg. No others laying around.
$120.00 out of pocket.
VCR/DVD player broke $100.00 from me.
Switch box from computer to TV: $89.00.
Cable from switch box $39.00.
Connector from cable to actually work with VCR/DVD $24.00.
Wall clock didn't work, $24.00.
Stapler $19.00.
Electric pencil sharpener $40.00.
File folders, 9X12 envelopes, dry erase markers, glue sticks, glue, pens, pencils, construction paper, writing paper, ink cartriges for printer, markers, for paper, sharpies, post-it notes, correction fluid, desk pad, wire collection baskets 7 @$8.99 each.
All out of my pocket, on my credit card, low monthly payments.
"Call it "Lame", say it has "no validity", Dude, I'd kick in another $20 to buy you a clue.
What have you EVER observed? Come follow me for a day. Restroom when the bell rings, like Pavlov's dog, 35 minute lunch (duty free, but what to do when kids fight).
All to educate your children because it takes a village, and you won't help.
RMW | 9:34 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007
With the increasingly serious teacher shortage, attracting quality educators is
a top priority. Increasing teacher salaries and providing better benefits and
conditions are the main ways to address this critical issue.
A greater supply of teachers will also ensure better quality. Administrators can then be picky about who is hired. As more and more quality teachers make their way into classrooms, those currently in the system who don't measure up will be easy to identify and be weeded out. Choice is a very good thing.
But it all starts with attracting teachers. Right now, teachers in Utah get paid 25% below the national average and have 40% higher class sizes than average. They get fewer supplies for the classroom and have less technology to work with. They are generally unappreciated. It is very difficult to attract the best and brightest under those conditions.
I think the Governor is on the right track by addressing the salary issue first.
A greater supply of teachers will also ensure better quality. Administrators can then be picky about who is hired. As more and more quality teachers make their way into classrooms, those currently in the system who don't measure up will be easy to identify and be weeded out. Choice is a very good thing.
But it all starts with attracting teachers. Right now, teachers in Utah get paid 25% below the national average and have 40% higher class sizes than average. They get fewer supplies for the classroom and have less technology to work with. They are generally unappreciated. It is very difficult to attract the best and brightest under those conditions.
I think the Governor is on the right track by addressing the salary issue first.
RE: Curtis Blanco | 2:43 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007
Curtis...this is America; can you say lawsuit!!
okelue frank | 6:18 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007
i beleive that teachers deserve more pay than other workers because no nation
can rise above the quality of it teacher.
Observer | 8:29 a.m. Nov. 16, 2007
I agree with Instero the classified personnel in the school districts need to be
considered for a pay raise also.It takes every one to make it work. Custodians,
secretaries,teacher assistants, and school lunch personnel.
Red Line | 7:13 p.m. Nov. 17, 2007
Don't forget after year twenty teachers do not get another raise! Teachers
can retire at thirty years, very few make it in this day and age. Now there is
some incentive; your last ten years without a pay raise...sign up all you
youngsters and brace yourself for a life of major stress,added health problems
from that stress, abuse by administrators, parents, second and third jobs and oh
did I mention poverty (your spouse and children will love them there low wages
and evenings away from home). The legislature and governor always talk big when
it comes to education benefits and teacher salaries. The reality is once the
numbers come in, all final percentages go to maintain the so,so insurance.
Furthermore, I do not understand why the general public thinks teachers'
have it so great? It isn't! The media NEVER paints an accurate picture of
the real teaching experience here in Utah.
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