Reader comments
BYU at the center of nonvoter vortex
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Illinois Dad | 7:09 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Well, I've got Illinois voter cards for four of my children who
haven't lived here for years. I believe the family record is my son who
hasn't lived here for six years. One child has TWO cards, since Illinois
has the Motor Voter law---you have a pulse, you get a voter card.
Beyond the logistics of registration and its lack of value, our leaders don't inspire us, do they? At all levels they are repeatedly pulling boneheaded stunts.
Here's a solution: Add a candidate "Mulligan" to every race. If Mulligan wins, they have to come back in 90 days with all new candidates to choose from. Or am I just being cynical?
Beyond the logistics of registration and its lack of value, our leaders don't inspire us, do they? At all levels they are repeatedly pulling boneheaded stunts.
Here's a solution: Add a candidate "Mulligan" to every race. If Mulligan wins, they have to come back in 90 days with all new candidates to choose from. Or am I just being cynical?
JrL | 7:15 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Those students are very transient. How many of the eligible voters in those
precincts actually still live there?
Comments continue below
Rick | 7:18 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
It's sad that an area that is dominated by the Mormon religion doesn't
live up to the 11th article and sustain the law - ie VOTE. Practice what you
preach, get off your duff and get out to vote.
Gretzky | 7:27 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Interesting...so community apathy begins in college, eh? i would think that the
college student populations (maybe not BYU though) would be more socially
protestative and therefore politically active. guess not. too bad so sad.
Anonymous | 8:09 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
How many of the students living in that area are eligible to vote in the local
elections? When I went to BYU I was still registered in my home area (since I
went back for summers anyway) and voted by absentee ballot in all of the
elections. My husband did the same. Maybe it's not that the students are
apathetic, but don't consider the apartment that they may only be living in
for 8 months "home."
Anonymous | 8:27 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Many of the students there are from other states, and therefore are unable to
vote in their precincts.
Matt | 8:28 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Some of you guys are missing the point here. It has nothing to do with the
Mormon church (unless, I guess, you just need an opportunity to bash) and
it's a municipal election. It's very understandable that a
college-age, transient demographic would turn out in low numbers to vote.
East Coast | 8:45 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I agree with both the first commenter and the 8:09 post. The people who have a
real incentive to vote are the property holders. If you don't hold property
or it isn't a major presidential election, the issues really have nothing
to do with your life as you see it. I don't think anyone under 21 should
have the right to vote. I wouldn't agree with disenfranchising non-property
holders, but I think the 18-21 vote is largely a joke.
Second, when I was a student at BYU I voted by absentee ballot for my home district in another state. I even had to find a notary to supervise my voting and I still did it.
Second, when I was a student at BYU I voted by absentee ballot for my home district in another state. I even had to find a notary to supervise my voting and I still did it.
College Life | 8:48 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
As a recent college grad, it's very easy to ignore the local community.
Most of your time is spent either in class, studying, or at a part-time job that
you need to sustain your family. I'm sure some students vote by absentee
ballot in their home community, but the article is in regards to voters
registered in Provo.
Unless local community leaders reach out to students, students are not going to go out of their way to learn about local community issues. Most students anyways are planning on moving out of the college community when they graduate anyways, so they don't exactly have a vested interest in who is serving on the local city council for the next 2-4 years.
Most students also don't bother to read the local newspaper as they tend to get their news from national television and the internet, which usually doesn't focus on local issues. Students are also surrounded in the community by...other students. If local citizens would get to know their student neighbors, conversations would happen about local issues. Perhaps then students will care enough to vote.
Unless local community leaders reach out to students, students are not going to go out of their way to learn about local community issues. Most students anyways are planning on moving out of the college community when they graduate anyways, so they don't exactly have a vested interest in who is serving on the local city council for the next 2-4 years.
Most students also don't bother to read the local newspaper as they tend to get their news from national television and the internet, which usually doesn't focus on local issues. Students are also surrounded in the community by...other students. If local citizens would get to know their student neighbors, conversations would happen about local issues. Perhaps then students will care enough to vote.
To Rick | 8:52 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
To Rick who thinks that the apathy has something to do with church membership,
municipal elections anywhere in the United States often have voting turnouts of
20 percent MAXIMUM. If you have an area that has a lot of non residents who
might live in the area for a grand total of 32 months over four years, there is
not a lot of incentive to track local ballot initiatives, city council races,
etc., especially if you are from someplace outside of Utah and you come to this
place where politics is simply weird. There is not a lot of incentive for
transferring your residence to Utah and even if you do, and register to vote,
I'm sorry, but the local Provo election is low on the radar of what's
happening. How would a student even find out what the local issues are?
Bulsie | 9:34 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Another reason is that students have been taken out of local politics by the
city. Look at a map of the precints and districts. All five districts in Provo
pinwheel out from the BYU campus look at the map on Provo's election
website. (I cant post the link here) You can't tell me this wasn't
done intentionally to keep the students from voting as a group or even to have a
student representative. The students need to be more involved and the
non-students need to recognize that what makes Provo a great town is the
University.
K | 9:38 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I'm a BYU student who did not vote in the recent elections. I didn't
vote because I'm registered in California, not Utah. I could register in
Utah, but I'm graduating next semester and don't feel qualified to be
making decisions about local government when I'm not going to be around to
either reap the benefits or feel the consequences. That should be left to the
people who are actually permanent residents in Provo.
Charles H | 9:39 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I spent 4 years out of State attending college. I NEVER voted in those
elections because I remained registered here at home and voted absentee. I
simply did not feel the connection, nor interest in my college town to be
inclined to vote on issues that might affect the locals for decades to come. I
did feel compelled to stay in touch at home and vote there.
Frankly, if I had my druthers, I'd actually discourage out-of-town college students from voting in local elections unless/until they had established some real ties to the local community such as home ownership or something more than a part time job. I would encourage them to vote (absentee if necessary) in their home town elections.
Of course, I have no delusions that most college students do not vote in any elections. They are simply not really paying attention to such things yet. And that is not necessarily a bad thing. A random, un-informed vote, simply for the sake of voting really does not add anything worthwhile to the process. It is one reason I'm not big on motor voter or other laws making it trivial to register.
Frankly, if I had my druthers, I'd actually discourage out-of-town college students from voting in local elections unless/until they had established some real ties to the local community such as home ownership or something more than a part time job. I would encourage them to vote (absentee if necessary) in their home town elections.
Of course, I have no delusions that most college students do not vote in any elections. They are simply not really paying attention to such things yet. And that is not necessarily a bad thing. A random, un-informed vote, simply for the sake of voting really does not add anything worthwhile to the process. It is one reason I'm not big on motor voter or other laws making it trivial to register.
amiraalia | 9:59 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Nice comment Bulsie -- I couldn't agree more!!
Pat | 10:21 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I have to agree with Charles. If the interest isn't in the voter, then an
uniformed vote is worthless. The article said "7000 REGISTERED"
voters...if you weren't registered then you don't need to be concerned
about having not voted. Those who were registered should have voted if they
were concerned about their community. If you have no interest in being a part
of the community then go ahead and keep your registration in your home state.
If you register just to get residency in a state you don't intend to stay
in, then maybe you need to rethink your reason fot establishing residency.
David | 10:26 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I feel college students don't vote because they aren't represented.
Politicians focus on the family, property owners, and businesses. College
students are often still supported BY the family, do NOT own property, nor own
many enterprises operating as a going concern. As long as they will be ignored
by politicians, they will likely ignore the politicians as well.
Voting? | 10:47 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I doubt most students rarely read a newspaper, or watch a newscast to find out
what the candidates positions are. How many of the candidates even try to talk
to students at the Y. The idea that you are only to be there for a short time
shows a tremendous lack of maturity on their invovlement as citizens. They live
there and have a right to determine who is making decisions that can and will
affect them.
We also have the issue of the dirty tricks and smear campaigns that are run so often. Who wants to have their life, their families lives smeared and drug through the dirt. The affluent are the ones who seem to run for these positions.
Take a look at the 2003 SLC mayoral election. Only 26% of the voters voted. The citizens who didnt' vote got what they wanted; a mayor more interested in being a national figure on the anti-war agenda that preserving the infrastructure of the city he swore to protect. Rocky's legacy should be the dilpadated police station. That is what those 76% should remember for a ong time.
Citizens who don't vote have lost their right to complain.
We also have the issue of the dirty tricks and smear campaigns that are run so often. Who wants to have their life, their families lives smeared and drug through the dirt. The affluent are the ones who seem to run for these positions.
Take a look at the 2003 SLC mayoral election. Only 26% of the voters voted. The citizens who didnt' vote got what they wanted; a mayor more interested in being a national figure on the anti-war agenda that preserving the infrastructure of the city he swore to protect. Rocky's legacy should be the dilpadated police station. That is what those 76% should remember for a ong time.
Citizens who don't vote have lost their right to complain.
By "registered" voters | 10:49 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
The comment about low-turnout is a percentage of the REGISTERED voters in that
area. It's not by how many people live in that area. Thus, those who live
there but are not registered there do not count in that percentage, whether they
voted by absentee ballot or not at all. In only takes into account those whose
addresses fall within those boundaries on their voter registration form. That
being said, I think there are several causes for the low turnout, including
those on missions who most likely didn't vote, and those who only consider
themselves temporary residents of the state and don't feel like they should
interfere with the state's government. Personally, I felt a little odd
voting on Referendum 1, since I may be moving out of the state before my kid(s)
go to school. But, that is not a good reason not to vote. Perhaps more effort
should be put into encouraging students to vote, no matter how long they think
they will live here...
kp | 10:52 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I think some of you missed the point in the article that the dearth of voters
was out of the number of REGISTERED voters. In other words, this wasn't
based on all residents in the college-dominated zip code; this was based on the
residents in the college dominated zip code who HAD REGISTERED.
Therefore they are by definition not individuals voting out of state.
They are just apathetic college students, unfortunately.
Therefore they are by definition not individuals voting out of state.
They are just apathetic college students, unfortunately.
Not Voting | 10:54 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Stupid is as stupid does. If you don't search out the issues and vote you
are getting what you want, a government that does not represent the people.
If voters were more demanding and became more involved in what is taking place they can change the landscape.
Think back to the Kennedy-Nixon election. To show you how close that election was if one more person in each voting precinct in the nation had cast a vote for Nixon he would have won the election instead of Kennedy. (I am not talking about whether that was good or bad) You see how it can change things by voting.
I agree we shoud have a ballot choice on all elections from Congress down to the local ballots. That would be NON OF THE ABOVE. "New" candidates would have 30 days to declare their candidacy. The other candidates would only have the option of a write-in campaign. 60 days later after the candidates registration deadline we would have a new election. Candidates would learn that you are to represent the electorate, not your personal desires.
This would eventually eliminate many who run for the presidency.
If voters were more demanding and became more involved in what is taking place they can change the landscape.
Think back to the Kennedy-Nixon election. To show you how close that election was if one more person in each voting precinct in the nation had cast a vote for Nixon he would have won the election instead of Kennedy. (I am not talking about whether that was good or bad) You see how it can change things by voting.
I agree we shoud have a ballot choice on all elections from Congress down to the local ballots. That would be NON OF THE ABOVE. "New" candidates would have 30 days to declare their candidacy. The other candidates would only have the option of a write-in campaign. 60 days later after the candidates registration deadline we would have a new election. Candidates would learn that you are to represent the electorate, not your personal desires.
This would eventually eliminate many who run for the presidency.
Dave | 11:34 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I am a voting judge in SL County. There are individuals in the poll book who
have not lived in this precinct for years, yet they still make up the base from
which the voting percentages are calculated. With the transient history of any
precinct adjacent to any college campus, it is no surprise that the percentages
who vote are low.
18-year-olds | 11:42 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
The point of giving 18-year-olds the vote has less to do with voting Democrat as
with morality -- if we were to take away their freedom and force them to fight
in a war, risking their lives, is it too much to ask to let them have a say in
their own government?
I suspect what "Anonymous" above would say is if they tend to vote Democratic, then we shouldn't let them vote.
I suspect what "Anonymous" above would say is if they tend to vote Democratic, then we shouldn't let them vote.
LaVar | 11:45 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
When citizens vote, they are in the voting booth by themselves. That requires
voters to think for themselves. Nobody is standing next to them, telling them
how to vote.
Thinking for yourself is frowned upon at BYU. As a result, BYU student is not skilled in thinking for himself. This would make it difficult for him to make a decision for himself in the voting booth. That may be the biggest reason for BYU student not voting. BYU student may not have the skill set to vote.
I'm not trying to be mean, but BYU student has done everything his parents, religious leaders, wife, or dorm parents have told him to do his entire life. BYU student has never made a life decision truly on his own. And now he's asked to go into a voting booth and make a decision without all those people present to make the decision for him? He'd be a fish out of water and not have a clue as to what to do.
Thinking for yourself is frowned upon at BYU. As a result, BYU student is not skilled in thinking for himself. This would make it difficult for him to make a decision for himself in the voting booth. That may be the biggest reason for BYU student not voting. BYU student may not have the skill set to vote.
I'm not trying to be mean, but BYU student has done everything his parents, religious leaders, wife, or dorm parents have told him to do his entire life. BYU student has never made a life decision truly on his own. And now he's asked to go into a voting booth and make a decision without all those people present to make the decision for him? He'd be a fish out of water and not have a clue as to what to do.
Seconder | 11:54 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I agree with most of what's been said.
Also, students should get informed and vote because it is likely that their interests will be closely aligned with those of students who will be moving in when they move out. So it's kind of a duty they owe to students of the future and the community as a whole.
Also, students should get informed and vote because it is likely that their interests will be closely aligned with those of students who will be moving in when they move out. So it's kind of a duty they owe to students of the future and the community as a whole.
Waste of time | 12:01 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
The Provo city counsel coiuld care less about the students at BYU. Take a look
at how they voted about the parking issues near 7 Peaks. They don't care
about the people who sustain this city. If there was no BYU there would be NO
Provo. So why should the students vote if the pols are going to ignore them and
vote against them?
OKNotToVote | 12:09 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Political science students in college are taught about rational ignorance.
The elections are rigged enough so that it's doesn't make much sense to vote if one hopes to affect the outcome.
The power elite encourages ordinary citizens to vote to dupe them into thinking that the people who control how tax dollars are spent actually care what taxpayers think, and create the illusion of public support for their tyrannical deeds.
One way to engage in civil disobedience is not to vote to undermine the legitimacy of those who wield power through elections.
The elections are rigged enough so that it's doesn't make much sense to vote if one hopes to affect the outcome.
The power elite encourages ordinary citizens to vote to dupe them into thinking that the people who control how tax dollars are spent actually care what taxpayers think, and create the illusion of public support for their tyrannical deeds.
One way to engage in civil disobedience is not to vote to undermine the legitimacy of those who wield power through elections.
Former BYUite | 1:15 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
When I was a student I could not vote because I was not a resident. Most
students I knew voted, just not in the BYU area.
Jerry | 1:21 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I simply pray for my favorite candidate. No votes needed.
Briliant | 1:30 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Briliant deduction Rick 7:15 AM... How did you turn this into a "Mormon
thing"? And what does not voting have to do with any article of faith?
I'm amazed how everything that happens in Utah (especially at BYU) is assumed to be caused by those Mormons out there.
I think you would find a similar trend in any small town with a large transient international student population. It isn't as prnounced at the UofU because it is more a "commuter school" where many students live at home and SLC's student population is very small percentage (because it's a bigger city and a smaller school with students spread around the city instead of on campus), so the percentage of UofU students in most SLC precincts isn't the same as BYU in Provo (where most students are consolidated on campus).
I'm sure there will always be those who assume the Mormons had something to do with it. Their known world wide for civic irresponsibility after all.
I'm amazed how everything that happens in Utah (especially at BYU) is assumed to be caused by those Mormons out there.
I think you would find a similar trend in any small town with a large transient international student population. It isn't as prnounced at the UofU because it is more a "commuter school" where many students live at home and SLC's student population is very small percentage (because it's a bigger city and a smaller school with students spread around the city instead of on campus), so the percentage of UofU students in most SLC precincts isn't the same as BYU in Provo (where most students are consolidated on campus).
I'm sure there will always be those who assume the Mormons had something to do with it. Their known world wide for civic irresponsibility after all.
Cougar Grad | 1:59 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Lavar, I know you are just trying to get under people's skin with your
comment, but I am going to refute your assessment anyway.
I knew several BYU students who, against the wishes of his/her parents, chose to go to BYU. Some of these people also chose, against the wishes of their friends and family, to join the LDS church. I had room mates at BYU who hated George Bush and voted for John Kerry, Alan Keyes, and apparently even Ralph Nader. I knew fans of Utah football (and just about every other school's football) at BYU. Your generalization that all BYU students are brainless, metaphorically aquatic, and male is more a reflection of your emotions than of the truth.
I knew several BYU students who, against the wishes of his/her parents, chose to go to BYU. Some of these people also chose, against the wishes of their friends and family, to join the LDS church. I had room mates at BYU who hated George Bush and voted for John Kerry, Alan Keyes, and apparently even Ralph Nader. I knew fans of Utah football (and just about every other school's football) at BYU. Your generalization that all BYU students are brainless, metaphorically aquatic, and male is more a reflection of your emotions than of the truth.
The real problem... | 2:00 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Someone in the voting system totally messed up.
Somehow the majority of those registered to vote (myself included) in the precincts around BYU did not show up on registered voter records they verify your name against. This meant you had to go and grab a piece of mail or other registered notice at your current address. A severe inconvenience for pretty much everyone, students and non-students alike, and I saw at least two people leave in frustration at this point. This was the real problem.
Somehow the majority of those registered to vote (myself included) in the precincts around BYU did not show up on registered voter records they verify your name against. This meant you had to go and grab a piece of mail or other registered notice at your current address. A severe inconvenience for pretty much everyone, students and non-students alike, and I saw at least two people leave in frustration at this point. This was the real problem.
Non-voters can still complain | 2:52 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Where does it say in the Constitution that citizens who don't vote, loose
their right to free speech, ie: complain? Rick- the last time I checked, no
laws are broken when citizens don't vote. People are free to vote or not
vote. It is called freedom of choice. I always vote, but I don't waste time
getting worked-up over those who choose not to.
Cynical Commenter | 3:15 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Why doesn't the state just pass a 'voter' tax, that gets added
onto your state taxes when you file? Then, add in a tax credit where if you
actually vote in the annual election, you get a form certifying that you voted,
thus, getting out of the 'voter tax'. Essentially, you would have a
tax on non-voting registered voters...
Former BYU Student | 4:36 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I attended BYU many years ago. Although I was from out of state, I tried to
register to vote in Provo. It was VERY OBVIOUS that the town actively
discouraged students whose parents were not in Utah County from registering.
While residents may appreciate students and the university from a economic and
cultural perspective, they clearly did not want students to get involved in
local politics. Things may have changed since, but I doubt it.
L | 5:38 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
An interesting comparison to a few years ago in Boulder, CO where the complaints
were where so many students (and some ran for local office) that voted and
passed so mant things (bond issues) that they would not contribute materially in
paying off as soon they would be leaving town.
It sounds like you will get complaints if you get too many student votes or too few.
One person suggested only letting property owners vote .... all of them do not even vote now.
It sounds like you will get complaints if you get too many student votes or too few.
One person suggested only letting property owners vote .... all of them do not even vote now.
temple quarrey | 6:22 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
It has always been the renegade Mormon mentality to vote en masse in order to
accomplish Church objectives. My impression of apathetic lifestyle Mormons is
that the majority of them vote only when directed to do so from across the
pulpit. Discouraged about voter turn-out in predominantly LDS areas? Put
abortion or gay rights issues at stake. LDS and rightwingers alike obviously
turned out to vote "yes" on Utah's Amendment 3 in 2004. And
we'll see even more Mormon turn out nation-wide to waste their valuable,
vulnerable Republican votes on Romney in the Primaries.
grizzman | 6:58 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
i imagine most students are concerned with what is going on , in the campus they
attend, most are engauged in there classes and focus on there major. voting on
issues for the people who live there doesnt seem right, unless they plan on
living there, i wouldnt want voting from students to sway the results on a
local issue.thank goodness for byu university, stone sober..be proud to be
there, were proud of you for being there, if you feel you want to vote on an
issue and your registered to vote, then do so, i believe that it is still an
american right.
MB | 7:12 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I recall being at BYU in the Wilkinson years. They had a rule requiring 90 days
of residence to register locally, and so there were few qualified. That
didn't stop them from advising the few Utah voters how to vote on
liquor-by-the-drink. Registered or not, we all got the message very clearly.
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However, it turns out that young people don't vote, they didn't back then, and they still don't, and the 18 year old vote as proven to be a giant flop.